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  1. #1
    Zippi's Avatar
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    *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*

    I ran Airtronics for 12 years and never had a problem. I had changed to JR because Airtronics wasn't keeping up with everyone else and I could get a PCM radio much cheaper from other brand radios and with the new release of the 2.4 GHz, they were still lagging behind. Now I hear that Airtronics is working on the RD8000 radio for 2.4 GHz and may hear something in September about a release. Anyone else have any info about this ?
    "It Ain't Lookin Good"
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  2. #2
    RCU Forum Manager/Admin RCKen's Avatar
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    RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GH*


    ORIGINAL: Zippi

    I ran Airtronics for 12 years and never had a problem. I had changed to JR because Airtronics wasn't keeping up with everyone else and I could get a PCM radio much cheaper from other brand radios and with the new release of the 2.4 GH, they were still lagging behind. Now I hear that Airtronics is working on the RD8000 radio for 2.4 GH and may hear something in September about a release. Anyone else have any info about this ?
    I too had been using Airtronics radios for the 10 years that I've been flying. When I went to Toledo this year I was excited about talking to the Airtronics reps and finding out their plans for going to 2.4 Ghz. That excitement was quickly killed when I talked to them. When I asked when Airtronics would be coming out with a 2.4 Ghz radio for aircraft their answer was "at least a year away". That was a killer nail in their coffin in my book. During that same time I was given a chance to review the JR X9303 radio for RCU and I very quickly converted to a JR man. Since that review I have been steadily converting planes from Airtronics to JR, as I can afford to buy receivers.

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  3. #3
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    RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GH*

    This from the Airtronics/Hobby People thread:

    "As for 2.4g, the RD8000 is first. Prototype is in the works now. Real-world testing in the USA environment will begin Sept 4. As soon as we're convined it's 100%, we will put that one into production.

    Soon to follow will then be a 9 channel 2.4g, a module/rx set for Stylus/older ATX, and then a competition level 12-14 channel.

    Mike Greenshields "
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  4. #4
    Zippi's Avatar
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    RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GH*

    It looks like it's still going to be a while until the Airtronics RD8000 SS is going to be out. It's a good thing that they are coming out with the SS but it's just to late. They will loose a lot more customers by waiting so long.
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    RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GH*

    Indeed Sanwa is late to the game, but indeed they are now in it. New management at the parent company in Japan is fueling the fire. They are committed and aggressively pursuing R&D.

    And while I feel your pain in the release time frame, it is there for a reason. This technology is complicated and new and we will NOT release a system until I am sure it works. We will test it first on the bench, then locally, then with our pilots across the country, and only then will we release it. The development schedule for Airtronics is accellerating and you'll see many new products from Airtronics. It isn't just one 2.4g system being developed, but many systems as well as all of the peripheral equipment including and expanded line of world-class servos.

    Airtronics is committed to 2.4G and to new product development. But first and foremost, it is quality/reliability first.

    If you have any questions or comments, feel free to contact me. You can pm me here or email if you wish.

    Mike Greenshields
    Product Manager
    Global Hobby/Airtronics
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  6. #6
    Zippi's Avatar
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    RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GH*

    MikeGreenshields,

    It's nice to see that Airtronics is coming on board with the new technology. For myself, I have already made a major investment in switching over to JR radios and probably will not make the change back. It's just to costly for me to make a change back and I'm satisfied when what I'm using for now. I wish the best for Airtronics and know the quality will be there as it has for the many years I used the product.

    "It Ain't Lookin Good"
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  7. #7
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    RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*

    Mike,
    What platform will Airtronics use for 2.4 Ghz. Are they using something similar to Spektrum's platform, or Futaba's, or XTR's, or something entirely different still?
    Terry
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  8. #8

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    RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*

    2.4g Spread Spectrum coding is by it's very nature proprietary. Since we are still in the prototyping stages I can't yet go into specific details. We'll release more information once testing is done and we get a little closer to a release date.

    Mike Greenshields

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    Airtronics - Global Hobby Distributors

  9. #9
    Zippi's Avatar
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    RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*

    Is there anything new to report from Airtronics on the 2.4 GHz?
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  10. #10

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    RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*

    The first hand-made RDS-8000 prototypes have been tested. They work. Testing so far has been encouraging and gone off without incident. We've ground tested them over 1500 feet ( I got tired of walking...this was a true field test and my helper who was holding the plane was so far away we had to communicate by mobile phone so he could tell me if the radio went out of range...but it didn't!).

    In the air the plane was so far away I couldn't see it (was a 60 size electric plane with an 800 sq. in. wing so it was pretty easy to see) and still had control.

    It has flown almost every day since we first tested in on August 27th and so far, so good.

    Wide-spread contry-wide testing by Airtronics team members will begin Mid-September. Production will be set after that testing is finished. As I said before, we will not release the radio before it has been thoroughly tested.

    Any other questions, please let me know.

    Mike Greenshields
    Product Manager
    Global Hobby
    Airtronics.
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  11. #11
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    RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*

    Are they Frequenzy hoppers like Futaba FASST?
    Do they stay on a fixed channel like Spektrum?
    Or do they use shared Channels, like XPS?
    Jesper Rex, Nuuk, Greenland - FG Leopard Race - 29cc Race Ported - Sensor\'ized and Elcon\'ized

  12. #12

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    RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*

    Obviously each engineer's approach to this technology is a little different. The radio we are testing currently is frequency hopping.

    Mike Greenshields
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    Airtronics - Global Hobby Distributors

  13. #13
    Zippi's Avatar
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    RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*

    MikeGreenshields,

    How are the RDS-8000 prototypes coming along. frequency hopping, that doen't sound good.
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  14. #14
    Moderator aeajr's Avatar
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    RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*

    Great to know Airtronics is getting into the game. I hope you are going to do this on a partner basis, rater than start up yet another standard.
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    RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*


    ORIGINAL: Zippi

    MikeGreenshields,

    How are the RDS-8000 prototypes coming along. frequency hopping, that doen't sound good.
    Freq hopping, yeah terrible. That must be why the U.S. military uses it for communications and data link technology. You know they always want the worst they can find. [:'(] Get real dude.
    3-D is for Monster Movies

  16. #16

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    RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*

    1. By the very nature of 2.4ghz spread spectrum technology, the encoding is proprietary. Much like PCM is for 72mhz. So, even if we used the exact same technology as Futaba or Spektrum, the encoding would have to be different to keep from infringing on their proprietary rights to their own design. Sorry, this technology is not going to be standardized anytime in the foreseeable future.

    2. Obviously each company has a chosen a slightly different path for using the technology. There are many interference rejection advantages to Frequency Hopping that makes it very appealing to our engineers.

    This is not a very technical explanation but it is detailed enough to make the point...
    At many flying fields around the country, there are frequencies that you know cannot be used because there is occasional interference. For example, once or twice a day 12, 22, 36, 48 and 57 get interference. So everyone knows not to fly on those channels...
    At the old milesquare field in Fountain Valley, CA we had about 15 of the 50 frequencies that were not safe. That's why the AMA and Radio MFG Assoc worked to get us 50 frequencies!

    OK, the same problem is happening in the 2.4ghz band. MANY industries use this band and use it in many different ways. And in some cases have licenses to transmit at much greater strengths than we do.

    With Frequency hopping, even if the radio selects a bad "frequency" it's only on it for 1/20th of a second or so and then it moves onto a new frequency. If it hits many in a row, the pilot will feel a little delay. In probably 1/2 a second or so, it's found a frequency not getting "hit" and thus you never really feel any delay at all and your plane NEVER goes out of control. It's constantly bouncing around the band randomly. And thusly, it never gets interference and never causes it (long enough to every feel it...)

    I'm not trying to start a debate as to what's better. I'm just saying that FHSS technology is very appealing to many engineers. And, world-wide is showing to be very reliable. Obviously it is not the only way to use the technology, but it is a very reliable way.

    The Airtronics system frequency hops. The original prototype has well over 100 flights and is working flawlessly. Stage two of testing which will include pilots from several areas in the country will start at the end of Sept. It will also be tested at different voltages to ensure we do not have any drop out problems.

    Whatever technology and encoding we finally use, you should know that it will be thorougly tested both on the bench and in real world applications from Jets to helis to gliders to electrics. Airtronics pilots are eager to test it and are committed to making sure it meets everyone's requirements.

    Mike Greenshields
    Product Manager
    Global/Airtronics
    Mike Greenshields - Product Manager
    Airtronics - Global Hobby Distributors

  17. #17

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    RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*

    This may be a very stupid question from a relative newbie. I've been flying for a couple years now at my house as I'm thankful to live in the country and have 3 acres myself, a empty 6 acre lot next to me and a 15 acre cornfield behind me. I've had a RD8000 unit for most of the time, and a VG400 before that.

    So, when a 2.4GHZ unit comes out, will it plug into the RD8000? Or will it be a totally new radio unit, just 2.4GHZ?

    Thanks!

  18. #18
    Zippi's Avatar
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    RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*

    MikeGreenshields,

    Is there any good news to report about the 2.4?
    "It Ain't Lookin Good"
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  19. #19

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    RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*

    Do you kinda' find the big red warning about resisting the urge to curse, flame, degrade, etc... kinda' funny/odd? Wouldn't it be nice if everyone was nice enough that this kind of warning statement were not necessary???

    Anyway, back to the subject at hand....

    YES I have good news. Samples more representative of the production of the first 2.4GHz Airtronics radio are in the USA and being test flown. So far, test pilots say it is flawless. We've had flights in 90 size high performance helicopters and electrics including some flights here at the Sepulveda Basin.

    Radio are now being distributed to a few Airtronics Team Test Pilots to test the radio in several more types of models and in many more environments around the country.

    Range has been tested as well. So far we can find no limits to the range. It seems to be longer than most people can see.

    We will be showing the first RDS8000 2.4GHz production-quality sample radio at Ihobby in Chicago this week.

    To the question about compatibility, the RD8000 has no plug-in module, thus, you cannot simply buy a module and receiver and drop it into an existing system. We are looking at what options will be there for people who want to switch from 72 to 2.4G. Whatever the switch will be, it will be a fixed thing. There will be no switching back and forth....Sorry. The radio was never designed for an individual module.

    Anyone going to the show, please stop by the Airtronics/Global Hobby Booth and say Hi!

    Thanks for Asking!

    Mike Greenshields
    Product Manager
    Global Hobby/Airtronics
    Mike Greenshields - Product Manager
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  20. #20
    Moderator aeajr's Avatar
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    RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*

    If you need someone to test it in some 3M gliders, let me know.

    One good thing is that you have chosen a transmitter with sufficent features to cover almost all pilots. It won't give you the low entry point that he DX6 provides but it should put you in contention for that upper midrange or entry level contest pilot class of users. The people who are thinking of buying DX7s, or 7202 2.4s or who would like a JR 9303 but won't spend the money should like this. You have a rich feature set that should put you in a good position in the market.

    We all look forward to the introduction for sale.
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  21. #21
    Zippi's Avatar
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    RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*

    MikeGreenshields,

    Good news. Has there been any talk about price yet? I have been flying Airtronics for 15 years and would love to get my hands on one for my new Pattern plane.
    "It Ain't Lookin Good"
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  22. #22

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    RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*

    Final pricing has not yet been set. It is our goal to make it as reasonable as possible.

    Mike
    Mike Greenshields - Product Manager
    Airtronics - Global Hobby Distributors

  23. #23

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    RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*

    No mention of 6 or 8 channel systems, but I'm sure they are not far behind.

    http://www.sanwa-denshi.co.jp/07newmodel2.4G.pdf

  24. #24

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    RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*

    Mike,

    I would be interested in knowing how low voltage spikes are handled and the signal reacquisition times.

    Bill

  25. #25

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    RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*

    Sanwa Link: What you are looking at there in your link is the surface equipment. Exces, M11, etc. are the surface 2-4Channel radios.

    This radio we are talking about is the RDS8000 2.4GHz 8 channel (which Sanwa showed the first handmade sample of at the Shizouka show in May).

    Low voltage has become a concern due to the required used of a computer in the receiver. A computer chip is simply less flexible in terms of voltage supply.

    The RDS8000 prototypes are being tested for these conditions. However, please know that the design was intended to operate at under 3 volts and that so far in testing we have had no problems with low-voltage, resetting, etc. And that includes the system being used in some pretty demanding settings.

    The testing parameters for the design are pretty rigorous.

    Once we have real-world extensive testing to go with the "perfect world" bench testing and the theoretical ratings, then we will be able to publish more specific information about low voltage, drop out, etc.

    Mike
    Mike Greenshields - Product Manager
    Airtronics - Global Hobby Distributors


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