Overflying Private property without permission
02-05-2011, 04:28 PM
#226
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RE: Overflying Private property without permission
I don't believe my "Rant" was aimed at you anyway. It seems you get a kick out of going around an finding little errors in everybodys posts.
You already tried to make wahoo look like a storyteller here. Another example was towards crash99's spelling in the 3d thread ("I think you mean "crowd" not "croud" as well as "doubt" versus "dought")
We all knew what he meant, I'm sure we/he didn't need your spelling lesson. Not everybody is perfect, even YOU.
You already tried to make wahoo look like a storyteller here. Another example was towards crash99's spelling in the 3d thread ("I think you mean "crowd" not "croud" as well as "doubt" versus "dought")
We all knew what he meant, I'm sure we/he didn't need your spelling lesson. Not everybody is perfect, even YOU.
02-05-2011, 05:28 PM
#227
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RE: Overflying Private property without permission
Not in response to Toolman (fast reply)
When the olive guy tried to get the FAA to stop the balloons,
the FAA didnt slap the balloonists with a Trespassing charge.
Then, the second time, they again did nothing against the balloonists... balloonists that would obviously be breaking some mythical Aerial Trespassing law if such a law existed. Yet the FAA didnt invoke that mythical Aerial Trespassing law against the balloonists.
Now we hear folks posting that the noise nuisance can be from overflying adjoining property
... just how does this interact with the thread Post1?
Well, clearly the actual allegations and suits are not about Overflying Private property without permission
but general local noise issues.
Why would olive guy attempt to get a subjective noise ruling from a court
(where you can bet HIS helicopter noise will be brought up)
when he could easily get a slam dunk Aerial Trespassing charge against the ballooons in his private airspace property?
I guess its because there is no mythical Aerial Trespassing law to charge them with
(seems the FAA couldnt find one against the balloonists "Overflying Private property without permission"... heck, they were overflying against explicit demand not to)
When the olive guy tried to get the FAA to stop the balloons,
the FAA didnt slap the balloonists with a Trespassing charge.
Then, the second time, they again did nothing against the balloonists... balloonists that would obviously be breaking some mythical Aerial Trespassing law if such a law existed. Yet the FAA didnt invoke that mythical Aerial Trespassing law against the balloonists.
Now we hear folks posting that the noise nuisance can be from overflying adjoining property
... just how does this interact with the thread Post1?
Well, clearly the actual allegations and suits are not about Overflying Private property without permission
but general local noise issues.
Why would olive guy attempt to get a subjective noise ruling from a court
(where you can bet HIS helicopter noise will be brought up)
when he could easily get a slam dunk Aerial Trespassing charge against the ballooons in his private airspace property?
I guess its because there is no mythical Aerial Trespassing law to charge them with
(seems the FAA couldnt find one against the balloonists "Overflying Private property without permission"... heck, they were overflying against explicit demand not to)
02-05-2011, 05:44 PM
#228
RE: Overflying Private property without permission
A shame you did not post the letter posted by the the person that actually did complain. He is a Vietnam Vet, and as most, had no idea of the ceremony for the fallen going on that day. He actually wrote a very nice letter.
Gerry
Gerry
02-05-2011, 05:52 PM
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RE: Overflying Private property without permission
ORIGINAL: The Toolman
You already tried to make wahoo look like a storyteller here.
You already tried to make wahoo look like a storyteller here.
Another example was towards crash99's spelling in the 3d thread (''I think you mean ''crowd'' not ''croud'' as well as ''doubt'' versus ''dought'')
02-05-2011, 06:02 PM
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RE: Overflying Private property without permission
ORIGINAL: GerKonig
A shame you did not post the letter posted by the the person that actually did complain. He is a Vietnam Vet, and as most, had no idea of the ceremony for the fallen going on that day. He actually wrote a very nice letter.
Gerry
A shame you did not post the letter posted by the the person that actually did complain. He is a Vietnam Vet, and as most, had no idea of the ceremony for the fallen going on that day. He actually wrote a very nice letter.
Gerry
Good point. Here is the letter:
I read with increasing embarrassment and humility the response to my
unfortunate letter to The Republic concerning an Air Force flyby ("A
wake-up call from Luke's jets," Letters, June 23).
I had no idea of the significance of the flyby, and would never have
insulted such a fine and respectful display had I known.
I have received many calls from the fine airmen who are serving or have
served at Luke, and I have attempted to explain my side and apologized
for any discomfort my letter has caused.
This was simply an uninformed citizen complaining about noise.
I have been made aware in both written and verbal communications of the
four-ship flyby, and my heart goes out to each and every lost serviceman
and woman in this war in which we are engaged.
I have been called un-American by an unknown caller and I feel that I
must address that. I served in the U.S. Navy and am a Vietnam veteran. I
love my country and respect the jobs that the service organizations are
doing.
Please accept my heartfelt apologies.
Tom MacRae, Peoria
unfortunate letter to The Republic concerning an Air Force flyby ("A
wake-up call from Luke's jets," Letters, June 23).
I had no idea of the significance of the flyby, and would never have
insulted such a fine and respectful display had I known.
I have received many calls from the fine airmen who are serving or have
served at Luke, and I have attempted to explain my side and apologized
for any discomfort my letter has caused.
This was simply an uninformed citizen complaining about noise.
I have been made aware in both written and verbal communications of the
four-ship flyby, and my heart goes out to each and every lost serviceman
and woman in this war in which we are engaged.
I have been called un-American by an unknown caller and I feel that I
must address that. I served in the U.S. Navy and am a Vietnam veteran. I
love my country and respect the jobs that the service organizations are
doing.
Please accept my heartfelt apologies.
Tom MacRae, Peoria
And some other links:
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepu...uelets282.html
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepu...urlets239.html
02-05-2011, 06:24 PM
#231
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RE: Overflying Private property without permission
This thread stated with a question about Overflying Private property without permission.
I know how some people and especially a grumpyneighbor can be when the issues of model planes comes up. If they had their way we would have to go out in the middle of some desert to fly even the quietest glow/gas planes. Some have even complained about electrics.
I was just highlighting the fact of how some people think and act by posting that article/email about the F-16 fly-by over PUBLIC land.I knew it to be true and frankly I could care less if the article/email listed the letter signed byforrest gump.
Sorry some of you guys get so bent out of shape over the slightestdiscrepancies. I'll try harder next time.
I know how some people and especially a grumpyneighbor can be when the issues of model planes comes up. If they had their way we would have to go out in the middle of some desert to fly even the quietest glow/gas planes. Some have even complained about electrics.
I was just highlighting the fact of how some people think and act by posting that article/email about the F-16 fly-by over PUBLIC land.I knew it to be true and frankly I could care less if the article/email listed the letter signed byforrest gump.
Sorry some of you guys get so bent out of shape over the slightestdiscrepancies. I'll try harder next time.
02-05-2011, 07:19 PM
#232
RE: Overflying Private property without permission
ORIGINAL: wahoo
This thread stated with a question about Overflying Private property without permission.
I know how some people and especially a grumpy neighbor can be when the issues of model planes comes up. If they had their way we would have to go out in the middle of some desert to fly even the quietest glow/gas planes. Some have even complained about electrics.
I was just highlighting the fact of how some people think and act by posting that article/email about the F-16 fly-by over PUBLIC land. I knew it to be true and frankly I could care less if the article/email listed the letter signed by forrest gump.
Sorry some of you guys get so bent out of shape over the slightest discrepancies. I'll try harder next time.
This thread stated with a question about Overflying Private property without permission.
I know how some people and especially a grumpy neighbor can be when the issues of model planes comes up. If they had their way we would have to go out in the middle of some desert to fly even the quietest glow/gas planes. Some have even complained about electrics.
I was just highlighting the fact of how some people think and act by posting that article/email about the F-16 fly-by over PUBLIC land. I knew it to be true and frankly I could care less if the article/email listed the letter signed by forrest gump.
Sorry some of you guys get so bent out of shape over the slightest discrepancies. I'll try harder next time.
You did just fine. It is the arrogance and elitism of some that spoil it for everyone.
02-05-2011, 07:32 PM
#233
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RE: Overflying Private property without permission
ORIGINAL: wahoo
http://cmsimg.gdn.mydesert.com/apps/...W=600&Border=0
No mx track thats for sure.
[/b]
http://cmsimg.gdn.mydesert.com/apps/...W=640&Border=0
Use google map.
33.655124,-116.229016
http://cmsimg.gdn.mydesert.com/apps/...W=600&Border=0
No mx track thats for sure.
[/b]
http://cmsimg.gdn.mydesert.com/apps/...W=640&Border=0
Use google map.
33.655124,-116.229016
After looking at yer pics ,I would say that there will be an abundant amount of naked girls in that pool. This guy just doesn't want anybody above seeing what is going on by the pool....hehe
Wonder if he knows that they can tell if the girls have a landing strip or not from a hundred or so miles out with a camera that pretty much can count the pimples on yer rear.... its long an im tired........................
As for the chopper trips in an out, I'm sure there is something not up to snuff there
02-05-2011, 09:24 PM
#235
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RE: Overflying Private property without permission
ORIGINAL: warningshot
Wahoo
You did just fine. It is the arrogance and elitism of some that spoil it for everyone.
Wahoo
You did just fine. It is the arrogance and elitism of some that spoil it for everyone.
ORIGINAL: The Toolman
After looking at yer pics ,I would say that there will be an abundant amount of naked girls in that pool. This guy just doesn't want anybody above seeing what is going on by the pool....hehe
Wonder if he knows that they can tell if the girls have a landing strip or not from a hundred or so miles out with a camera that pretty much can count the pimples on yer rear.... its long an im tired........................
As for the chopper trips in an out, I'm sure there is something not up to snuff there
After looking at yer pics ,I would say that there will be an abundant amount of naked girls in that pool. This guy just doesn't want anybody above seeing what is going on by the pool....hehe
Wonder if he knows that they can tell if the girls have a landing strip or not from a hundred or so miles out with a camera that pretty much can count the pimples on yer rear.... its long an im tired........................
As for the chopper trips in an out, I'm sure there is something not up to snuff there
http://www.360cities.net/london-photo-en.html
http://70gigapixel.cloudapp.net/index_en.html
02-06-2011, 02:47 AM
#236
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RE: Overflying Private property without permission
In my opinion, the final response of the original letter writer is equally important. The original letter writer responded gracefully and sincerely as he did not know the meaning.
I had an Air Force career officer for an uncle who is buried at Arlington National Cemetery... I have not witnessed the 4 fighter formation, so I would not know it's purpose. I now know, so thanks for that.
I had an Air Force career officer for an uncle who is buried at Arlington National Cemetery... I have not witnessed the 4 fighter formation, so I would not know it's purpose. I now know, so thanks for that.
ORIGINAL: wahoo
Ya toolman but unlike the many that will just forward an email because it says so in the email, I do some research on my own before I re-send it.
Ya toolman but unlike the many that will just forward an email because it says so in the email, I do some research on my own before I re-send it.
So of course I'm going to make sure its legit before posting it here.
02-06-2011, 07:06 AM
#237
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RE: Overflying Private property without permission
Well last I check the USAF doesnt need permission to fly wherever they want, especially here in the USA.
Wheather is a 4 men formation a solo or a squadron. That is their job. They are protecting our skies from all enemies, foreing and domestic!!
God Bless them.
Wheather is a 4 men formation a solo or a squadron. That is their job. They are protecting our skies from all enemies, foreing and domestic!!
God Bless them.
02-06-2011, 09:45 AM
#238
RE: Overflying Private property without permission
ORIGINAL: lopflyers
Well last I check the USAF doesnt need permission to fly wherever they want, especially here in the USA.
Wheather is a 4 men formation a solo or a squadron. That is their job. They are protecting our skies from all enemies, foreing and domestic!!
God Bless them.
Well last I check the USAF doesnt need permission to fly wherever they want, especially here in the USA.
Wheather is a 4 men formation a solo or a squadron. That is their job. They are protecting our skies from all enemies, foreing and domestic!!
God Bless them.
You are right, they just have to follow the regulations when they fly.
Gerry
02-06-2011, 10:05 AM
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RE: Overflying Private property without permission
Don't know about the rest of the states but in Texas there are indeed air rights. It may not be enforceable but it is a fact. Same principle applies to ground or surface rights and mineral rights. One can sever the mineral rights, and the owner of the mineral rights has priorty over surface rights and surface rights have priority of air rights. Texas may be peculiar but then it came into the United States as an independent nation, not as US territory. Thus we have a lot of odd things but they are generally good things for us land owners. We have things like homestead rights and so on. Real estate law here is quite different in many respects.
Regardless, I am appalled that an R/C pilot thinks he has the right and privilege to over fly another's territory. Where is our sense of what is right not what one thinks is his right. Check with a real estate lawyer first.
Chip
Regardless, I am appalled that an R/C pilot thinks he has the right and privilege to over fly another's territory. Where is our sense of what is right not what one thinks is his right. Check with a real estate lawyer first.
Chip
02-06-2011, 12:07 PM
#240
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RE: Overflying Private property without permission
Keep those surface rights in mind as you tramp around a farmer's field looking for your downed aircraft. The plants you knock over are the farmer's product.... and source of income.
Even if you are tramping an open field, you are trespassing if you do not ask permission. I know this, yet I did it anyway... I could have been shot in Texas... durn glad I don't live there.
I have read that some fields have a picnic and invite the neighbors... mighty neighborly of the clubs, and good PR.
Even if you are tramping an open field, you are trespassing if you do not ask permission. I know this, yet I did it anyway... I could have been shot in Texas... durn glad I don't live there.
I have read that some fields have a picnic and invite the neighbors... mighty neighborly of the clubs, and good PR.
02-06-2011, 12:08 PM
#241
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RE: Overflying Private property without permission
After wading through as many of these replies as I could stand, I guess the bottom line is: nobody knows. And if the matter went to court 100 times, 50 times would be ruled one way and 50 times would be ruled the other way. So you pays your money and you takes your chances. But my question is why push the envelope? Why do something deliberately that you know someone else objects to when you can just as well do it some place where nobody objects. I don't know what the circumstances were here, but some folks seem to enjoy creating turmoil. And in this case, I suppose it could have been either of the parties; maybe a little of both.
02-06-2011, 12:19 PM
#242
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RE: Overflying Private property without permission
Why do something deliberately that you know someone else objects to when you can just as well do it some place where nobody objects
this smacks of the 'private beach' folks in CA try to claim:
Why go onto the beach that causes folks to get upset, their 'private beach',
(I mean, other than the Law allows you to be on the beach since the beach /like the air/ is public)
when you can just let ordinary folks kick you off public property because they believe that public property is their private playground/sanctuary
02-06-2011, 12:23 PM
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RE: Overflying Private property without permission
Morrison
Are you just as appalled
that a recreational GA pilot in a c172 believe HE 'has the right and privilege to over fly another's territory' at 500/2700/10000ft?
What excuse are you granting the recreational GA authorized user of the NAS to fly there
that you are trying to withhold from the MA authorized user of the NAS in the same spot?
Regardless, I am appalled that an R/C pilot thinks he has the right and privilege to over fly another's territory.
that a recreational GA pilot in a c172 believe HE 'has the right and privilege to over fly another's territory' at 500/2700/10000ft?
What excuse are you granting the recreational GA authorized user of the NAS to fly there
that you are trying to withhold from the MA authorized user of the NAS in the same spot?
02-06-2011, 01:44 PM
#244
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RE: Overflying Private property without permission
ORIGINAL: JollyPopper
After wading through as many of these replies as I could stand, I guess the bottom line is: nobody knows. And if the matter went to court 100 times, 50 times would be ruled one way and 50 times would be ruled the other way. ...
After wading through as many of these replies as I could stand, I guess the bottom line is: nobody knows. And if the matter went to court 100 times, 50 times would be ruled one way and 50 times would be ruled the other way. ...
02-06-2011, 01:54 PM
#245
RE: Overflying Private property without permission
Well last I check the USAF doesnt need permission to fly wherever they want, especially here in the USA.
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2010/0...ished_031910w/
02-06-2011, 01:57 PM
#246
RE: Overflying Private property without permission
ORIGINAL: JollyPopper
After wading through as many of these replies as I could stand, I guess the bottom line is: nobody knows. And if the matter went to court 100 times, 50 times would be ruled one way and 50 times would be ruled the other way. So you pays your money and you takes your chances. But my question is why push the envelope? Why do something deliberately that you know someone else objects to when you can just as well do it some place where nobody objects. I don't know what the circumstances were here, but some folks seem to enjoy creating turmoil. And in this case, I suppose it could have been either of the parties; maybe a little of both.
After wading through as many of these replies as I could stand, I guess the bottom line is: nobody knows. And if the matter went to court 100 times, 50 times would be ruled one way and 50 times would be ruled the other way. So you pays your money and you takes your chances. But my question is why push the envelope? Why do something deliberately that you know someone else objects to when you can just as well do it some place where nobody objects. I don't know what the circumstances were here, but some folks seem to enjoy creating turmoil. And in this case, I suppose it could have been either of the parties; maybe a little of both.
02-06-2011, 01:59 PM
#247
RE: Overflying Private property without permission
ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy
you are making the assumption that there are other places one can "just as well do it"
this smacks of the 'private beach' folks in CA try to claim:
Why go onto the beach that causes folks to get upset, their 'private beach',
(I mean, other than the Law allows you to be on the beach since the beach /like the air/ is public)
when you can just let ordinary folks kick you off public property because they believe that public property is their private playground/sanctuary
Why do something deliberately that you know someone else objects to when you can just as well do it some place where nobody objects
this smacks of the 'private beach' folks in CA try to claim:
Why go onto the beach that causes folks to get upset, their 'private beach',
(I mean, other than the Law allows you to be on the beach since the beach /like the air/ is public)
when you can just let ordinary folks kick you off public property because they believe that public property is their private playground/sanctuary
02-06-2011, 02:02 PM
#248
RE: Overflying Private property without permission
ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy
Morrison
Are you just as appalled
that a recreational GA pilot in a c172 believe HE 'has the right and privilege to over fly another's territory' at 500/2700/10000ft?
What excuse are you granting the recreational GA authorized user of the NAS to fly there
that you are trying to withhold from the MA authorized user of the NAS in the same spot?
Morrison
Regardless, I am appalled that an R/C pilot thinks he has the right and privilege to over fly another's territory.
that a recreational GA pilot in a c172 believe HE 'has the right and privilege to over fly another's territory' at 500/2700/10000ft?
What excuse are you granting the recreational GA authorized user of the NAS to fly there
that you are trying to withhold from the MA authorized user of the NAS in the same spot?
02-06-2011, 02:37 PM
#249
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RE: Overflying Private property without permission
ORIGINAL: Top_Gunn
Not so. It is quite clear that flying any aircraft over someone else's property is a trespass unless the activity comes within the Causby exception for air commerce. No case has ever held otherwise. And nobody has advanced a serious argument that recreational modeling is included in the air commerce exception to the common-law rule. The law isn't at all unclear, though this won't stop some people from loudly asserting otherwise.
ORIGINAL: JollyPopper
After wading through as many of these replies as I could stand, I guess the bottom line is: nobody knows. And if the matter went to court 100 times, 50 times would be ruled one way and 50 times would be ruled the other way. ...
After wading through as many of these replies as I could stand, I guess the bottom line is: nobody knows. And if the matter went to court 100 times, 50 times would be ruled one way and 50 times would be ruled the other way. ...
Brad
02-06-2011, 05:01 PM
#250
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RE: Overflying Private property without permission
Not so. It is quite clear that flying any aircraft over someone else's property is a trespass unless the activity comes within the Causby exception for air commerce. No case has ever held otherwise. And nobody has advanced a serious argument that recreational modeling is included in the air commerce exception to the common-law rule. The law isn't at all unclear, though this won't stop some people from loudly asserting otherwise.
was very explicitly restricted against commercial operation.
So, again we see the recreational non-commercial use of the NAS is what GA and MA do all the time.
Recreational c152 and H9Mustang are both authorized users of the NAS.
If you are unclear, they wrote a very easy to follow and understand policy letter EXPLAINING the deal to folks, since so many folks have a hard time understanding it.