Finding\Starting a new field
01-08-2011, 04:19 AM
#26
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RE: Finding\Starting a new field
Thanks all,now it seems to be getting complicated,all I wanna do is fly.I saw in the tx law that if no payment
for the use of the land = no liability,if I am understanding it correctly.Also,rc is specifically mentioned as a
recreation.My goal is to be far enough away from anything that could get damaged.Even if paying a lease
that negates exemption,the AMA should cover any damages.On another note,after flying for 8 or 9 years,
I have never seen\heard of any damage being caused except for the recent rc\fs incident,which as far as I
am concerned was caused by bad judgment by several people.
Anyway,all good ideas guys,and I thank you,me and Bigugly will be out driving and scouting this weekend,
let you know what if anything comes of it.
for the use of the land = no liability,if I am understanding it correctly.Also,rc is specifically mentioned as a
recreation.My goal is to be far enough away from anything that could get damaged.Even if paying a lease
that negates exemption,the AMA should cover any damages.On another note,after flying for 8 or 9 years,
I have never seen\heard of any damage being caused except for the recent rc\fs incident,which as far as I
am concerned was caused by bad judgment by several people.
Anyway,all good ideas guys,and I thank you,me and Bigugly will be out driving and scouting this weekend,
let you know what if anything comes of it.
01-08-2011, 05:37 AM
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RE: Finding\Starting a new field
ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy
well, if we are gonna just start pasting in texas recreation law text,
lets get the important part too:
CIVIL PRACTICE AND REMEDIES CODE
TITLE 4: LIABILITY IN TORT
well, if we are gonna just start pasting in texas recreation law text,
lets get the important part too:
CIVIL PRACTICE AND REMEDIES CODE
TITLE 4: LIABILITY IN TORT
§75.002. Liability Limited
(a) An owner, lessee, or occupant of agricultural land:
(1) does not owe a duty of care to a trespasser on the land; and
(2) is not liable for any injury to a trespasser on the land, except for wilful or wanton acts
or gross negligence by the owner, lessee, or other occupant of agricultural land.
(b) If an owner, lessee, or occupant of agricultural land gives permission to another
or invites another to enter the premises for recreation,
the owner, lessee, or occupant, by giving the permission, does not:
(1) assure that the premises are safe for that purpose;
(2) owe to the person to whom permission is granted or to whom the invitation is extended
a greater degree of care than is owed to a trespasser on the premises; or
(3) assume responsibility or incur liability for any injury to any individual or property caused
by any act of the person to whom permission is granted or to whom the invitation is extended.
(c) If an owner, lessee, or occupant of real property other than agricultural land
gives permission to another to enter the premises for recreation,
the owner, lessee, or occupant, by giving the permission, does not:
(1) assure that the premises are safe for that purpose;
(2) owe to the person to whom permission is granted a greater degree of care than is owed to a trespasser on the premises; or
(3) assume responsibility or incur liability for any injury to any individual or property caused by any act of the person to whom permission is granted.
(d) Subsections (a), (b), and (c) shall not limit the liability of an owner, lessee, or occupant of real property who has been grossly negligent or has acted with malicious intent or in bad faith.
(a) An owner, lessee, or occupant of agricultural land:
(1) does not owe a duty of care to a trespasser on the land; and
(2) is not liable for any injury to a trespasser on the land, except for wilful or wanton acts
or gross negligence by the owner, lessee, or other occupant of agricultural land.
(b) If an owner, lessee, or occupant of agricultural land gives permission to another
or invites another to enter the premises for recreation,
the owner, lessee, or occupant, by giving the permission, does not:
(1) assure that the premises are safe for that purpose;
(2) owe to the person to whom permission is granted or to whom the invitation is extended
a greater degree of care than is owed to a trespasser on the premises; or
(3) assume responsibility or incur liability for any injury to any individual or property caused
by any act of the person to whom permission is granted or to whom the invitation is extended.
(c) If an owner, lessee, or occupant of real property other than agricultural land
gives permission to another to enter the premises for recreation,
the owner, lessee, or occupant, by giving the permission, does not:
(1) assure that the premises are safe for that purpose;
(2) owe to the person to whom permission is granted a greater degree of care than is owed to a trespasser on the premises; or
(3) assume responsibility or incur liability for any injury to any individual or property caused by any act of the person to whom permission is granted.
(d) Subsections (a), (b), and (c) shall not limit the liability of an owner, lessee, or occupant of real property who has been grossly negligent or has acted with malicious intent or in bad faith.
]Brad
01-08-2011, 06:41 AM
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RE: Finding\Starting a new field
Siko,
You see why I said early on you would need some luck in this thread!
The same things you experience at the field are very similar to what happens here.
You'll often have someone that just has to have it their way and it is always in the name of AMA according to them.
As you have seen there is always one fellow here, that will incessantly disrupt the the thread instead of just putting out real information while continually spinning it of topic with inferences or outright accusations of that have nothing to do with helping you.
Now Brad,
You keep harping on some crap while slinging to see where it might stick... but earlier on you even imbolded this:
(2) charges for entry to the premises, but whose total charges collected in the previous calendar year for all recreational use of the entire premises of the owner, lessee, or occupant are not more than 20 times the total amount of ad valorem taxes imposed on the premises for the previous calendar year;
How do you reconcile that in your mind????? Obviously does not run concurrent with much of your Recreational Argument here.
There are land owners that will lease land to a group just to cover the taxes. Why would you be so against that??? DANG IT!
You see why I said early on you would need some luck in this thread!
The same things you experience at the field are very similar to what happens here.
You'll often have someone that just has to have it their way and it is always in the name of AMA according to them.
As you have seen there is always one fellow here, that will incessantly disrupt the the thread instead of just putting out real information while continually spinning it of topic with inferences or outright accusations of that have nothing to do with helping you.
Now Brad,
You keep harping on some crap while slinging to see where it might stick... but earlier on you even imbolded this:
(2) charges for entry to the premises, but whose total charges collected in the previous calendar year for all recreational use of the entire premises of the owner, lessee, or occupant are not more than 20 times the total amount of ad valorem taxes imposed on the premises for the previous calendar year;
How do you reconcile that in your mind????? Obviously does not run concurrent with much of your Recreational Argument here.
There are land owners that will lease land to a group just to cover the taxes. Why would you be so against that??? DANG IT!
01-08-2011, 08:30 AM
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RE: Finding\Starting a new field
BP
Is it wrong to be allowed to use land for free?
Have you asked the BLM to stop letting modeling folks use land for free?
Have you asked Army Corps Of Eng to stop letting AMA clubs use land for free?
Is that what this is about?
You have some hidden beef against all the AMA clubs that are already using land for free?
Or are you just against Siko's gang getting to use land for free?
Or are you just against me trying to help Sikos club find free land?
...
This is beginning to look like most other Texas law threads,
where folks in other states get bent outta shape that in The Republic Of Texas you can shoot folks but in their state they cant.
If you guys on the east coast dont like Texas making it easy to have hunting leases (& RCclubs),
ok, thats cool, you can stay in your ambulance chaser law states.
Kid this seems to be a trend in your posts , that is finding ways to use other peoples land, even RC fields without paying anything.
Have you asked the BLM to stop letting modeling folks use land for free?
Have you asked Army Corps Of Eng to stop letting AMA clubs use land for free?
Is that what this is about?
You have some hidden beef against all the AMA clubs that are already using land for free?
Or are you just against Siko's gang getting to use land for free?
Or are you just against me trying to help Sikos club find free land?
...
This is beginning to look like most other Texas law threads,
where folks in other states get bent outta shape that in The Republic Of Texas you can shoot folks but in their state they cant.
If you guys on the east coast dont like Texas making it easy to have hunting leases (& RCclubs),
ok, thats cool, you can stay in your ambulance chaser law states.
01-08-2011, 08:45 AM
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RE: Finding\Starting a new field
LCS
Its a matter of selling the idea to the landowner.
One way is to show how he dont need to worry cause of Texas landowner liability protections/immunity,
they other way is to convince him that he needs $2.5mil to protect him from the hazards we will expose him to.
Also, while this is about protections for the guy that OWNS the land the club will lease,
we might want to consider the same protections given the club as a LEASEE of land against folks suing the club.
If a rc pilots crashes into you/your stuff, do you sue the Pilot, the leasee Club, and the Owner?
Texas CP 4-75.002 says you dont go after owners and leasees.
If the pilot crashed his plane, you sue the pilot,
and thats where pilot's AMA/USAmA/Hartford/Homeowners comes in,
or the pilot writes you a check for the damages without insurance paying his debt to you for him
Its a matter of selling the idea to the landowner.
One way is to show how he dont need to worry cause of Texas landowner liability protections/immunity,
they other way is to convince him that he needs $2.5mil to protect him from the hazards we will expose him to.
Also, while this is about protections for the guy that OWNS the land the club will lease,
we might want to consider the same protections given the club as a LEASEE of land against folks suing the club.
If a rc pilots crashes into you/your stuff, do you sue the Pilot, the leasee Club, and the Owner?
Texas CP 4-75.002 says you dont go after owners and leasees.
If the pilot crashed his plane, you sue the pilot,
and thats where pilot's AMA/USAmA/Hartford/Homeowners comes in,
or the pilot writes you a check for the damages without insurance paying his debt to you for him
01-08-2011, 12:11 PM
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RE: Finding\Starting a new field
ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy
If a rc pilots crashes into you/your stuff, do you sue the Pilot, the leasee Club, and the Owner?
Texas CP 4-75.002 says you dont go after owners and leasees.
If the pilot crashed his plane, you sue the pilot,
If a rc pilots crashes into you/your stuff, do you sue the Pilot, the leasee Club, and the Owner?
Texas CP 4-75.002 says you dont go after owners and leasees.
If the pilot crashed his plane, you sue the pilot,
Darn Texans, just won't hear the beat of the drum.[>:]
01-08-2011, 02:34 PM
#32
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RE: Finding\Starting a new field
I wish Siko Flyer well in his quest for the creation of a new flying site and the pilot/members to support it.
We need more people creating flying sites and anyone standing in the way of such an honorable goal, in any way,
should be .........hanged..... TEXAS STYLE.
We need more people creating flying sites and anyone standing in the way of such an honorable goal, in any way,
should be .........hanged..... TEXAS STYLE.
01-08-2011, 03:37 PM
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RE: Finding\Starting a new field
ORIGINAL: airkiller
I wish Siko Flyer well in his quest for the creation of a new flying site and the pilot/members to support it.
We need more people creating flying sites and anyone standing in the way of such an honorable goal, in any way,
should be .........hanged..... TEXAS STYLE.
I wish Siko Flyer well in his quest for the creation of a new flying site and the pilot/members to support it.
We need more people creating flying sites and anyone standing in the way of such an honorable goal, in any way,
should be .........hanged..... TEXAS STYLE.
01-09-2011, 06:40 AM
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RE: Finding\Starting a new field
KidEpoxy,
Is it wrong to be allowed to use land for free?
Is it wrong to be allowed to use land for free?
01-09-2011, 06:47 AM
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RE: Finding\Starting a new field
No 804,that would be a chili cook off.
Anyway,not sure how we got to Texas Law or the other stuff,I simply asked how some of you found your flying sites,and I greatly appreciate the comments toward that subject.I suppose at some point liability issues has to be addressed,but first we have to find a field we can become a liability at,soooo....
There is a landfill close by that has been unused for about 20 years,but I have been unable to determine who now controls this land,dealing with government can be quite frustrating.[:@]
Anyway,not sure how we got to Texas Law or the other stuff,I simply asked how some of you found your flying sites,and I greatly appreciate the comments toward that subject.I suppose at some point liability issues has to be addressed,but first we have to find a field we can become a liability at,soooo....There is a landfill close by that has been unused for about 20 years,but I have been unable to determine who now controls this land,dealing with government can be quite frustrating.[:@]
01-09-2011, 07:35 AM
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RE: Finding\Starting a new field
ORIGINAL: siko_flyer
No 804,that would be a chili cook off. Anyway,not sure how we got to Texas Law or the other stuff,I simply asked how some of you found your flying sites,and I greatly appreciate the comments toward that subject.I suppose at some point liability issues has to be addressed,but first we have to find a field we can become a liability at,soooo....
There is a landfill close by that has been unused for about 20 years,but I have been unable to determine who now controls this land,dealing with government can be quite frustrating.[:@]
No 804,that would be a chili cook off.
Anyway,not sure how we got to Texas Law or the other stuff,I simply asked how some of you found your flying sites,and I greatly appreciate the comments toward that subject.I suppose at some point liability issues has to be addressed,but first we have to find a field we can become a liability at,soooo....There is a landfill close by that has been unused for about 20 years,but I have been unable to determine who now controls this land,dealing with government can be quite frustrating.[:@]
I found my current site when I was much younger... I use to play softball there... So, I know the history there better than probably anyone else. It was a baseball field/park/land fill. We flew models as well as many other activities there for many years up until a local club, that had lost a few previous flying-sites elsewhere, decided to make use of it. After that, came the kind of stuff that is now prompting you to look for another place. We decided to stay instead... Yes, the members of that club split and formed another... and continued to use the park that we had invested so much time and money into... but now without all the BS that once was...
As for as all the Texas Law stuff... I was hoping to help arm you with a little insight for you to consider... sorry, if that is not something you were looking for.
01-09-2011, 07:54 AM
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RE: Finding\Starting a new field
I went back and re-read your original post as well as your later posts... Now I understand the responses you wanted. You want to know how to physically find a site and how to find out who owns it... is that right?? If so, the information can be had at the county court house and often times the appraisal district entity will have an online search tool as well. There you can even get satellite/aerial imagery as well as pertinent tax role information such as owners name and mailing address. I have used that tool to find land for many uses... including model flying...
I hope that helps... and saves you some gas...he...he...he...
Good Luck and sorry to have taken your thread down a road that you hadn't intended about land use laws... please forgive me.
I hope that helps... and saves you some gas...he...he...he...
Good Luck and sorry to have taken your thread down a road that you hadn't intended about land use laws... please forgive me.
01-09-2011, 08:00 AM
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RE: Finding\Starting a new field
I recall from some time I spent in Missouri horse country,
that I went to the county assey office and asked to see the property line records
so I could find out who owned some creek land I wanted to hunt.
Now, this of course was out in the sticks, so the two ladies in the tax office were both helping me find some property, even got some small town gossip on who's mad at who and wont help folks that are their friends. Eventually I left with a list of names & addresses to contact.
You might also want to cruise the net for aerial images of existing club fields,
ones that are very unobtrusive to the original land,
to show potential site owners how little we disrupt his land.
Maybe even get a list of places where the overfly land stays in production for crop or graze.
Also, dont sell short the 'Hey Lookit That' factor of our models.
If you drive out to some podunk town in the sticks some day,
and assemble a 30" foamie and a 90"Extra in the parking lot of the towns only gas station,
I bet you will get the opportunity to call over plenty of locals you catch lookin at the planes
... and while showing them the planes you mention your national organization club is looking to lease some overfly land.
heck, bring some hotshot kid with a 14" micro 3Dfoamie and put on a show in the parking lot to get folks interested
that I went to the county assey office and asked to see the property line records
so I could find out who owned some creek land I wanted to hunt.
Now, this of course was out in the sticks, so the two ladies in the tax office were both helping me find some property, even got some small town gossip on who's mad at who and wont help folks that are their friends. Eventually I left with a list of names & addresses to contact.
You might also want to cruise the net for aerial images of existing club fields,
ones that are very unobtrusive to the original land,
to show potential site owners how little we disrupt his land.
Maybe even get a list of places where the overfly land stays in production for crop or graze.
Also, dont sell short the 'Hey Lookit That' factor of our models.
If you drive out to some podunk town in the sticks some day,
and assemble a 30" foamie and a 90"Extra in the parking lot of the towns only gas station,
I bet you will get the opportunity to call over plenty of locals you catch lookin at the planes
... and while showing them the planes you mention your national organization club is looking to lease some overfly land.
heck, bring some hotshot kid with a 14" micro 3Dfoamie and put on a show in the parking lot to get folks interested
01-09-2011, 08:05 AM
#39
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RE: Finding\Starting a new field
ORIGINAL: siko_flyer
No 804,that would be a chili cook off. Anyway,not sure how we got to Texas Law or the other stuff,I simply asked how some of you found your flying sites,and I greatly appreciate the comments toward that subject.I suppose at some point liability issues has to be addressed,but first we have to find a field we can become a liability at,soooo....
There is a landfill close by that has been unused for about 20 years,but I have been unable to determine who now controls this land,dealing with government can be quite frustrating.[:@]
No 804,that would be a chili cook off.
Anyway,not sure how we got to Texas Law or the other stuff,I simply asked how some of you found your flying sites,and I greatly appreciate the comments toward that subject.I suppose at some point liability issues has to be addressed,but first we have to find a field we can become a liability at,soooo....There is a landfill close by that has been unused for about 20 years,but I have been unable to determine who now controls this land,dealing with government can be quite frustrating.[:@]
Anyways, after being around here awhile, it seems what you describe is fairly common
and maybe a natural progression in the life of at least some clubs.
When I first joined ours, it was (or seemed) totally BS free.
Now, after several years, I notice some tension brewing.
Several members seem to be at odds with our long-time president, who, to be fair,
is always encouraging others to step up and run for office.
No one, including yours truly, does, but still some complain.
I hope you can find a new field, but if not, maybe a change in leadership would be best in the long run
Good luck what ever you decide.
01-09-2011, 08:07 AM
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RE: Finding\Starting a new field
LCS, you just saved me some typing. I was about to relate nearly identical experience, decades ago. We didn't have the satellite imagery then.......promising sites were eyeballed by aerial survey from a Cessna owned by one of the group. As you said, the tax man always knows who owns a piece of property.
01-15-2011, 08:22 AM
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RE: Finding\Starting a new field
Here's a link to pics of the flying site/club I started.
http://www.louisianahelicam.com/copp....php?album=116
http://www.louisianahelicam.com/copp....php?album=116
01-18-2011, 06:30 PM
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RE: Finding\Starting a new field
It all depends on the landowner. I lease only the land I use, meaning the parking area, pit, and runway. If you'll look at the pics through the link I posted, you'll see how much area that is. The fly-over area is no charge. My lease is $900 per year. That number was derived from the dollars in hay she was going to lose, since it is a hay field I am leasing. So, the area I lease yields $900 worth of hay.
Again, it all depends on the landowner.
Again, it all depends on the landowner.
01-18-2011, 11:45 PM
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RE: Finding\Starting a new field
ivebeen away from airplanes for 30 years but i do remember at the field we flw at there was a rc club and a free flight club used the same field we alternated weekends. it worked out good for both clubs.the months that had 5 weekends the last one was a cookout for both clubs. both clubs helped with the upkeep. i just wanted to give you ideas of some possible solutions instead of finding a new field. bring it up on your next club meeting and see if it goes doesent hurt to ask. hope all of you find a good soluition.
02-01-2011, 08:24 AM
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RE: Finding\Starting a new field
Come on over to Rockwall. We have a lot of 3D/heli flyers and we just upgraded our runway (we also have a heli pad, but nobody minds if you fly of the main runway). We would love to have you. PM if you want any info.
Mark
President of The Rockwall RC Sport Flyers
BTW Monday the 7th we are having our first club indoor funfly at a very nice facility. Let me know if you want to come as my guest.
Mark
President of The Rockwall RC Sport Flyers
BTW Monday the 7th we are having our first club indoor funfly at a very nice facility. Let me know if you want to come as my guest.
