More AMA Forum Displeasure:
01-29-2011, 07:30 AM
#26
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RE: More AMA Forum Displeasure:
ORIGINAL: Luchnia
This is not aimed at you Toolman just a few general thoughts I had after reading through this thread.
Maybe the voice of the people should just be squelched. After all, any of us with any sense at all can see there is bias after bias in the forums.
Squelching the voice of the people would certainly be the best way to grow an org. Heck, after all isn't that becoming the American way and it what has made good old USA what it is today? Yep, the government controlling the voices of the people in the land of the free and home of the brave...''blech''...makes me want to hurl.
I do agree some administration must exist and troublemakers must be controlled with order and discipline, but it seems to me what I read in controversial (AMA subjects a good example) forums is controlled by bias for the most part and if one ruffles some feathers then ''walla'' the hammer goes down.
This is not aimed at you Toolman just a few general thoughts I had after reading through this thread.
Maybe the voice of the people should just be squelched. After all, any of us with any sense at all can see there is bias after bias in the forums.
Squelching the voice of the people would certainly be the best way to grow an org. Heck, after all isn't that becoming the American way and it what has made good old USA what it is today? Yep, the government controlling the voices of the people in the land of the free and home of the brave...''blech''...makes me want to hurl.
I do agree some administration must exist and troublemakers must be controlled with order and discipline, but it seems to me what I read in controversial (AMA subjects a good example) forums is controlled by bias for the most part and if one ruffles some feathers then ''walla'' the hammer goes down.
The people that create these forums usually do so in favor or against the subject of the forum itself. Rarely do you find one that is dead neutral. But I would say that between this one, RCG an the AMA forums, that this one is about as close to neutral as yer gonna get.
From the 60's, Back when I was a teen....."The People will be Heard"
01-29-2011, 07:39 AM
#27
RE: More AMA Forum Displeasure:
ORIGINAL: The Toolman
The people that create these forums usually do so in favor or against the subject of the forum itself. Rarely do you find one that is dead neutral. But I would say that between this one, RCG an the AMA forums, that this one is about as close to neutral as yer gonna get.
From the 60's, Back when I was a teen.....''The People will be Heard''
The people that create these forums usually do so in favor or against the subject of the forum itself. Rarely do you find one that is dead neutral. But I would say that between this one, RCG an the AMA forums, that this one is about as close to neutral as yer gonna get.
From the 60's, Back when I was a teen.....''The People will be Heard''
01-29-2011, 07:40 AM
#28
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RE: More AMA Forum Displeasure:
an now everybody can see what the real deal is
- we cant see what the real deal is if folks go back and whitewash everything unsavory they said
Remember all the USAMA slander on the AMA board,
Murcoc saying it was proven etc, good luck finding those old posts. It would look bad for folks on the AMA board to accuse Cisco of doing what Muroc & Co did early on, so that embarrassing part of history got goned since the AMA picked its member mods. Violate Rinse Repeat, maybe if those goned posts got goned months later because they broke some rule, then just maybe they were breaking the rule the whole time and were just allowed to be standing violations from the ama chosen ones.
Back when those posts were made, folks said how happy they were with the AMA board moderation,
now that they are goned, same folks say how happy they are with the new moderation.
Its odd how folks change their opinions to fit whatever the AMA is doing at the moment, rather than deciding for themselves if a post is bad or not. If those posts are bad now then they were bad then, and I wonder why they felt they were not bad then (happy with the mods leaving the posts then)
01-29-2011, 07:55 AM
#30
RE: More AMA Forum Displeasure:
ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy
Back when those posts were made, folks said how happy they were with the AMA board moderation,
now that they are goned, same folks say how happy they are with the new moderation.
Its odd how folks change their opinions to fit whatever the AMA is doing at the moment, rather than deciding for themselves if a post is bad or not. If those posts are bad now then they were bad then, and I wonder why they felt they were not bad then (happy with the mods leaving the posts then)
Back when those posts were made, folks said how happy they were with the AMA board moderation,
now that they are goned, same folks say how happy they are with the new moderation.
Its odd how folks change their opinions to fit whatever the AMA is doing at the moment, rather than deciding for themselves if a post is bad or not. If those posts are bad now then they were bad then, and I wonder why they felt they were not bad then (happy with the mods leaving the posts then)
I had no trouble at all with Cisco's posts as I form my own perception as to what I believe about something and throw away what I believe to be chaff. Whether it be a right or wrong understanding it is what I perceive it to be.
I like what you typed about, "... deciding for themselves if a post is bad or not." Ain't that the truth. The gold merit star goes to KidEpoxy for this round! [8D]
01-29-2011, 08:04 AM
#31
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RE: More AMA Forum Displeasure:
ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy
that would be the case if the deal wasnt revisionist history
- we cant see what the real deal is if folks go back and whitewash everything unsavory they said
Remember all the USAMA slander on the AMA board,
Murcoc saying it was proven etc, good luck finding those old posts. It would look bad for folks on the AMA board to accuse Cisco of doing what Muroc & Co did early on, so that embarrassing part of history got goned since the AMA picked its member mods. Violate Rinse Repeat, maybe if those goned posts got goned months later because they broke some rule, then just maybe they were breaking the rule the whole time and were just allowed to be standing violations from the ama chosen ones.
Back when those posts were made, folks said how happy they were with the AMA board moderation,
now that they are goned, same folks say how happy they are with the new moderation.
Its odd how folks change their opinions to fit whatever the AMA is doing at the moment, rather than deciding for themselves if a post is bad or not. If those posts are bad now then they were bad then, and I wonder why they felt they were not bad then (happy with the mods leaving the posts then)
an now everybody can see what the real deal is
- we cant see what the real deal is if folks go back and whitewash everything unsavory they said
Remember all the USAMA slander on the AMA board,
Murcoc saying it was proven etc, good luck finding those old posts. It would look bad for folks on the AMA board to accuse Cisco of doing what Muroc & Co did early on, so that embarrassing part of history got goned since the AMA picked its member mods. Violate Rinse Repeat, maybe if those goned posts got goned months later because they broke some rule, then just maybe they were breaking the rule the whole time and were just allowed to be standing violations from the ama chosen ones.
Back when those posts were made, folks said how happy they were with the AMA board moderation,
now that they are goned, same folks say how happy they are with the new moderation.
Its odd how folks change their opinions to fit whatever the AMA is doing at the moment, rather than deciding for themselves if a post is bad or not. If those posts are bad now then they were bad then, and I wonder why they felt they were not bad then (happy with the mods leaving the posts then)
01-29-2011, 09:15 AM
#33
RE: More AMA Forum Displeasure:
What they got is a Howdy-Doody puppet to be their Minister of Propanganda when that job got turned down originally by Bahgdad Bob.
I'm sure they figured having Howdy-Doody head that operation would act as a deterent to anyone with critical views and opinions towards the AMA.
I've sure never had any reason to post there.
I'm sure they figured having Howdy-Doody head that operation would act as a deterent to anyone with critical views and opinions towards the AMA.
I've sure never had any reason to post there.
01-29-2011, 09:48 AM
#35
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RE: More AMA Forum Displeasure:
ORIGINAL: airkiller
If the Republicans or Democrates had total control of what was written and or posted on RCU......
Would anything, from the ''other'' side ............even be allowed?
I have seen moderators take sides, depending on the subject,
and oppress the ''other sides'' point of view, just because it was not their point of view.
God Bless You Horrace.... for reminding us that govt's both large and small.....
fall prey to the same sins.... that our founding fathers fought against.....
tyranny,oppression, and the.... we are right......... JUST BECAUSE WE SAY SO! crowd.
Just consider how history would have turned out, if the ''otherside'' never ever had their say:
Racisim?
Nazism?
Communism?
Womens rights?
immigration?
Guns?
The AMA is a part of our model aircraft gov't...they need to hear and read what we think, regardless of how we think it, or worse, whos thinking it. Please...... don't shoot the messengers.
If the Republicans or Democrates had total control of what was written and or posted on RCU......
Would anything, from the ''other'' side ............even be allowed?
I have seen moderators take sides, depending on the subject,
and oppress the ''other sides'' point of view, just because it was not their point of view.
God Bless You Horrace.... for reminding us that govt's both large and small.....
fall prey to the same sins.... that our founding fathers fought against.....
tyranny,oppression, and the.... we are right......... JUST BECAUSE WE SAY SO! crowd.
Just consider how history would have turned out, if the ''otherside'' never ever had their say:
Racisim?
Nazism?
Communism?
Womens rights?
immigration?
Guns?
The AMA is a part of our model aircraft gov't...they need to hear and read what we think, regardless of how we think it, or worse, whos thinking it. Please...... don't shoot the messengers.
The only problem with you theory is that you do not see the Republicans on a daily basis reaching for "net neutrality", or a "fairness doctrine". They are instead called vicious, venomous, etc for allowing the free exchange of ideas and speech. The tragedy in Tucson is a perfect example of my point. Who was blamed immediately, by whom? Seems to me there are some who agree with the founding fathers, and those who want "net neutrality", and a "fairness doctrine".
01-29-2011, 10:09 AM
#36
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RE: More AMA Forum Displeasure:
ORIGINAL: CowboyLifesaver
The only problem with you theory is that you do not see the Republicans on a daily basis reaching for ''net neutrality'', or a ''fairness doctrine''. They are instead called vicious, venomous, etc for allowing the free exchange of ideas and speech. The tragedy in Tucson is a perfect example of my point. Who was blamed immediately, by whom? Seems to me there are some who agree with the founding fathers, and those who want ''net neutrality'', and a ''fairness doctrine''.
The only problem with you theory is that you do not see the Republicans on a daily basis reaching for ''net neutrality'', or a ''fairness doctrine''. They are instead called vicious, venomous, etc for allowing the free exchange of ideas and speech. The tragedy in Tucson is a perfect example of my point. Who was blamed immediately, by whom? Seems to me there are some who agree with the founding fathers, and those who want ''net neutrality'', and a ''fairness doctrine''.
01-29-2011, 12:09 PM
#39
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RE: More AMA Forum Displeasure:
And odd that Kid Epoxy complained about no moderation at AMA, and now constantly complains about the current moderation.
with different bad moderation
is not an improvement.
As someone that wants the AMA to be the best we can make it,
I dont think we should settle for any kind of bad moderation, we should keep fixing it till it aint broke no more
01-29-2011, 01:14 PM
#41
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RE: More AMA Forum Displeasure:
ORIGINAL: joizeex
if you guys don't mind me asking, but what are some of the topics that cause the most controversy, resulting in banning, etc?
if you guys don't mind me asking, but what are some of the topics that cause the most controversy, resulting in banning, etc?
Anything Muroc doesn't like, which could change from minute to minute.
01-29-2011, 01:59 PM
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RE: More AMA Forum Displeasure:
ORIGINAL: joizeex
if you guys don't mind me asking, but what are some of the topics that cause the most controversy, resulting in banning, etc?
if you guys don't mind me asking, but what are some of the topics that cause the most controversy, resulting in banning, etc?
metal propellers
01-29-2011, 03:07 PM
#43
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RE: More AMA Forum Displeasure:
Why ban anyone....????
They are just words and point of views that can be deleted....
a moderator highlights what he wants.....and hits the delete key.
Its supposed to be Moderation of someones writings.....not elimination ....of the person's writing them.
They are just words and point of views that can be deleted....
a moderator highlights what he wants.....and hits the delete key.
Its supposed to be Moderation of someones writings.....not elimination ....of the person's writing them.
01-29-2011, 03:29 PM
#44
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RE: More AMA Forum Displeasure:
lol ah man. i guess there are no specifics? i don't know a whole lot about AMA and related politics, but i keep seeing all these threads. I was a member for 2 consecutive years, after i got the .50 nitro heli, but now i kinda sorta don't really need it because i fly exclusively over a private farm where the owner doesn't bother me because i'm not actually standing on the field. Plus the membership price keeps going up [
] I guess i was curious about all this, because i haven't run into any questions/issues where i'd need to butt heads. I wanted to know what kind of problems people run into and i find it upsetting that voices are being silenced.
] I guess i was curious about all this, because i haven't run into any questions/issues where i'd need to butt heads. I wanted to know what kind of problems people run into and i find it upsetting that voices are being silenced.
01-29-2011, 04:02 PM
#45
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RE: More AMA Forum Displeasure:
joizeex
Specifics?
I cant really give you a link to a thread
as an example of stuff getting deleted
since, after all, it was deleted
But I could refer to the thread asking if AMA's board was or was not a means of communicating with the AMA. Some guy said yes, some guy said no, AMA Pres posted it was a long time ago <etc>
.... so why was that TOPIC locked before an AMA honcho could settle the dispute between Mountaineer and (iirc BP) saying it was and it wasnt. Then, why like months later go back and delete that discussion.
Mind you, this was after the New Deal of moderation/rules laid down by PrezDM
Another example was the post I had a moderator preview before I posted it,
and even with that mods OK that post still got Secret Policed off the server right away.
Why did it get deleted ?
Well, if they told me what was wrong with it then it wouldnt be a secret, would it[8D]
joizeex
is that the way you would like your (ama is a member org) board run? Opposing views just get disappeared without explanation, not for how it was said but just for what one is saying? Now, the EC did make it clear in the board rules
so, AMA says all views are welcome,
but those views that dont fit the mods agenda will be deleted regardless of them being welcome by the rules
lol ah man. i guess there are no specifics?
I cant really give you a link to a thread
as an example of stuff getting deleted
since, after all, it was deleted
But I could refer to the thread asking if AMA's board was or was not a means of communicating with the AMA. Some guy said yes, some guy said no, AMA Pres posted it was a long time ago <etc>
.... so why was that TOPIC locked before an AMA honcho could settle the dispute between Mountaineer and (iirc BP) saying it was and it wasnt. Then, why like months later go back and delete that discussion.
Mind you, this was after the New Deal of moderation/rules laid down by PrezDM
Another example was the post I had a moderator preview before I posted it,
and even with that mods OK that post still got Secret Policed off the server right away.
Why did it get deleted ?
Well, if they told me what was wrong with it then it wouldnt be a secret, would it[8D]
joizeex
is that the way you would like your (ama is a member org) board run? Opposing views just get disappeared without explanation, not for how it was said but just for what one is saying? Now, the EC did make it clear in the board rules
HARASSMENT: We welcome individuals of all backgrounds, orientations, and views, so this is our most important rule: Healthy debate and the exchange of ideas are encouraged; threats, abuse, hate speech, personal attacks, and harassment will not be tolerated.
but those views that dont fit the mods agenda will be deleted regardless of them being welcome by the rules
01-29-2011, 04:09 PM
#46
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RE: More AMA Forum Displeasure:
that is pretty sad in this day and age. i come from the former USSR (i left in 1991 just as it was breaking up) and censorship was the norm there. books wouldn't get published, stand up comics were disallowed to perform certain material, some great minds weren't allowed to publicly voice their feelings about the state of the union, but i'm sure people in the US know all about that already. So it is very disheartening to see something like this on an internet forum, of all things. heck, the US gov is constantly talking about censoring the internet in America as a whole. well China has already done that and last i checked, they are still commies lol.
01-29-2011, 07:48 PM
#47
RE: More AMA Forum Displeasure:
It's been a struggle since the caveman days to keep freedom of thought and speech a basic human right. I would guess that more than half the people in the world today would be shot for publishing views that contradict the views of those in power.
01-29-2011, 08:48 PM
#48
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RE: More AMA Forum Displeasure:
Some of the loudest complainers of the moderation on the AMA forum were those that were sometimes guilty of personal abuse in their posts. I think that sort of moderation is reasonable and needed. If you cannot make your point without name calling, belittling and general abuse towards the person you are replying to, you need to do some thinking about how you post.
However, the moderators over at the AMA forum seem to have lost the ability to discriminate between genuine give and take discussion and what some call recreational arguing. And the rate of AMA "politically correct" moderation is over the top and ruining the forum.
The traffic is so low there that I think it will continue to decline to become the hangout of a very few AMA folks that will not discuss anything controversial.
However, the moderators over at the AMA forum seem to have lost the ability to discriminate between genuine give and take discussion and what some call recreational arguing. And the rate of AMA "politically correct" moderation is over the top and ruining the forum.
The traffic is so low there that I think it will continue to decline to become the hangout of a very few AMA folks that will not discuss anything controversial.
01-29-2011, 10:29 PM
#49
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RE: More AMA Forum Displeasure:
joizeex
the real kicker is
AMA is a member organization. Its not some set of rules imposed onto folks to bend knee to and lay praise unto muncie, the way AMA runs is suppose to be the way the membership wants it to run. We elect the exec council, and we have paths for members to effect change to the org. Ask not if we are serving the AMA, but that isnt the AMA supposed to serve the members. This isnt a problem of saying somebody out on the internet is running a bad board, its a problem of saying WE the ama are running OUR board badly.
So it is very disheartening to see something like this on an internet forum, of all things.
AMA is a member organization. Its not some set of rules imposed onto folks to bend knee to and lay praise unto muncie, the way AMA runs is suppose to be the way the membership wants it to run. We elect the exec council, and we have paths for members to effect change to the org. Ask not if we are serving the AMA, but that isnt the AMA supposed to serve the members. This isnt a problem of saying somebody out on the internet is running a bad board, its a problem of saying WE the ama are running OUR board badly.
01-30-2011, 01:14 AM
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RE: More AMA Forum Displeasure:
After a year of watching this forum I think that I'm seeing that the AMA has fallen into the same trap that other large organizations fall into. Over time they become more interested in thier own survival than they do what they set out to do in the begining. It's a shame.