On the value of moderators
08-08-2003, 10:17 PM
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On the value of moderators
I've been told that Marc himself has indicated that this particular forum is to be only lightly moderated. I'm not sure of the rationale for this, but I've seen the results, and I don't think the membership is well served. Many of the recent threads have ended up in name-calling contests. I left rec.models.rc.air a long time ago to avoid this phenomenom, and it's really disturbing to see it here.
What is it about this topic (AMA) that is different from other forums? It seems to me that there's a lot more "heat" about the threads here, so, if anything, more moderation should be applied.
The problem with allowing name calling, and other hateful comments, is that they drive off the level-headed, middle-of-the-road folks, not to mention the thin skinned. Folks see an interesting thread here, and they either don't post because they don't want to be flamed, or they just can't follow the posts due to all the gratuitous insulting posts mixed in. As a result, we end up with many fewer folks posting than you'd expect given the interest in the topic.
How can we expect the AMA executives to participate if we can't show them we can discuss an important issue at length without resorting to insults and name calling?
You may call it censorship, or whatever you want, but I think we'd all be a lot better off if the moderators would nuke any post that drifts into personal attack, name-calling, unsubstantiated accusations, muck-raking, etc.
What is it about this topic (AMA) that is different from other forums? It seems to me that there's a lot more "heat" about the threads here, so, if anything, more moderation should be applied.
The problem with allowing name calling, and other hateful comments, is that they drive off the level-headed, middle-of-the-road folks, not to mention the thin skinned. Folks see an interesting thread here, and they either don't post because they don't want to be flamed, or they just can't follow the posts due to all the gratuitous insulting posts mixed in. As a result, we end up with many fewer folks posting than you'd expect given the interest in the topic.
How can we expect the AMA executives to participate if we can't show them we can discuss an important issue at length without resorting to insults and name calling?
You may call it censorship, or whatever you want, but I think we'd all be a lot better off if the moderators would nuke any post that drifts into personal attack, name-calling, unsubstantiated accusations, muck-raking, etc.
08-08-2003, 10:26 PM
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On the value of moderators
pinball
How you can complain about anything is beyond me. You post inaccurate, misleading, and otherwise useless information. Then, in an effort to cover up, you delete the post. If you want your opinion respected your going to have to change your ways. Never, on any forum I have been on, have I seen anyone pull the stuff you have... never.
JR
How you can complain about anything is beyond me. You post inaccurate, misleading, and otherwise useless information. Then, in an effort to cover up, you delete the post. If you want your opinion respected your going to have to change your ways. Never, on any forum I have been on, have I seen anyone pull the stuff you have... never.
JR
08-09-2003, 01:54 AM
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Re: On the value of moderators
Originally posted by pinball
I think you're making the mistake of confusing the Internet with reality. A lot of the guys here that come across really *****ly are the nicest guys you'd meet at the field. Conversely, I appear to you as lacking character here, but I think you'd find me the opposite in person.
SNIP
I think you're making the mistake of confusing the Internet with reality. A lot of the guys here that come across really *****ly are the nicest guys you'd meet at the field. Conversely, I appear to you as lacking character here, but I think you'd find me the opposite in person.
SNIP
Originally posted by pinball
I've been told that Marc himself has indicated that this particular forum is to be only lightly moderated. I'm not sure of the rationale for this, but I've seen the results, and I don't think the membership is well served. Many of the recent threads have ended up in name-calling contests. I left rec.models.rc.air a long time ago to avoid this phenomenom, and it's really disturbing to see it here.
What is it about this topic (AMA) that is different from other forums? It seems to me that there's a lot more "heat" about the threads here, so, if anything, more moderation should be applied.
The problem with allowing name calling, and other hateful comments, is that they drive off the level-headed, middle-of-the-road folks, not to mention the thin skinned. Folks see an interesting thread here, and they either don't post because they don't want to be flamed, or they just can't follow the posts due to all the gratuitous insulting posts mixed in. As a result, we end up with many fewer folks posting than you'd expect given the interest in the topic.
How can we expect the AMA executives to participate if we can't show them we can discuss an important issue at length without resorting to insults and name calling?
You may call it censorship, or whatever you want, but I think we'd all be a lot better off if the moderators would nuke any post that drifts into personal attack, name-calling, unsubstantiated accusations, muck-raking, etc.
I've been told that Marc himself has indicated that this particular forum is to be only lightly moderated. I'm not sure of the rationale for this, but I've seen the results, and I don't think the membership is well served. Many of the recent threads have ended up in name-calling contests. I left rec.models.rc.air a long time ago to avoid this phenomenom, and it's really disturbing to see it here.
What is it about this topic (AMA) that is different from other forums? It seems to me that there's a lot more "heat" about the threads here, so, if anything, more moderation should be applied.
The problem with allowing name calling, and other hateful comments, is that they drive off the level-headed, middle-of-the-road folks, not to mention the thin skinned. Folks see an interesting thread here, and they either don't post because they don't want to be flamed, or they just can't follow the posts due to all the gratuitous insulting posts mixed in. As a result, we end up with many fewer folks posting than you'd expect given the interest in the topic.
How can we expect the AMA executives to participate if we can't show them we can discuss an important issue at length without resorting to insults and name calling?
You may call it censorship, or whatever you want, but I think we'd all be a lot better off if the moderators would nuke any post that drifts into personal attack, name-calling, unsubstantiated accusations, muck-raking, etc.
I am not sure how to square your two posts up other than to assume this last one is a (very bad) joke.
Or are you trying to get censorship the rule here too?
Or is it you just insist that you are the only one with the right of carrying a grudge?
I am sorry, but your posts and actions are not consistent.
You have openly stated you have a problem with me that you are unable (or after TWO apologies it appears you are unwilling) to get over. It seems rather clear that you have let your own personal animosity overwhelm your interest in being fair and even handed and yet you want everyone else to? The proof of that statement has been seen in your willingness to spread historical horse manure in a "mean spirited" (your words, not mine) manner.
In the opinion of some, you are just as guilty of the actions you disdain as all others. I don't think you should be throwing stones from your glass house.
As you have noted, there are some here who react a little harshly and without forethought. That is life. Please get used to it.
It means that if your skin is thin, the serious discussions seen here should not be something for you to participate in. If you insist on participating, please figure out how to thicken your skin for I assure you that there are others who will ping on you just for the fun of it, much like what was done on the newsgroup.
I guess it really comes down to commitment. I am committed to doing what I do and if that means I have to play target from time to time, it is part of the price of admission. You have had your shots and I submit that you took them for the same reasons you are unhappy that others return them. I respectfully suggest you think about that because your latest post does not appear to indicate a willingness to stand by your own words and actions.
08-09-2003, 02:43 AM
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Re: On the value of moderators
Originally posted by pinball
I've been told that Marc himself has indicated that this particular forum is to be only lightly moderated. I'm not sure of the rationale for this, but I've seen the results, and I don't think the membership is well served. Many of the recent threads have ended up in name-calling contests. I left rec.models.rc.air a long time ago to avoid this phenomenom, and it's really disturbing to see it here.
What is it about this topic (AMA) that is different from other forums? It seems to me that there's a lot more "heat" about the threads here, so, if anything, more moderation should be applied.
The problem with allowing name calling, and other hateful comments, is that they drive off the level-headed, middle-of-the-road folks, not to mention the thin skinned. Folks see an interesting thread here, and they either don't post because they don't want to be flamed, or they just can't follow the posts due to all the gratuitous insulting posts mixed in. As a result, we end up with many fewer folks posting than you'd expect given the interest in the topic.
How can we expect the AMA executives to participate if we can't show them we can discuss an important issue at length without resorting to insults and name calling?
You may call it censorship, or whatever you want, but I think we'd all be a lot better off if the moderators would nuke any post that drifts into personal attack, name-calling, unsubstantiated accusations, muck-raking, etc.
I've been told that Marc himself has indicated that this particular forum is to be only lightly moderated. I'm not sure of the rationale for this, but I've seen the results, and I don't think the membership is well served. Many of the recent threads have ended up in name-calling contests. I left rec.models.rc.air a long time ago to avoid this phenomenom, and it's really disturbing to see it here.
What is it about this topic (AMA) that is different from other forums? It seems to me that there's a lot more "heat" about the threads here, so, if anything, more moderation should be applied.
The problem with allowing name calling, and other hateful comments, is that they drive off the level-headed, middle-of-the-road folks, not to mention the thin skinned. Folks see an interesting thread here, and they either don't post because they don't want to be flamed, or they just can't follow the posts due to all the gratuitous insulting posts mixed in. As a result, we end up with many fewer folks posting than you'd expect given the interest in the topic.
How can we expect the AMA executives to participate if we can't show them we can discuss an important issue at length without resorting to insults and name calling?
You may call it censorship, or whatever you want, but I think we'd all be a lot better off if the moderators would nuke any post that drifts into personal attack, name-calling, unsubstantiated accusations, muck-raking, etc.
Pinball, as a former MOD of this forum,,, its Marc's wish for all to say what they will about AMA,,, Good or Bad. Its actually quite a fun forum,,, you get to express your Opinions onto others about AMA.
So if there's anyone to to blame,,, Place the Blame on Marc for allowing this forum to run-a-muck
BV
08-09-2003, 03:09 AM
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On the value of moderators
Originally posted by Buz^
why do some of you guy's feel that you have to quote the entire post to get your message across.
why do some of you guy's feel that you have to quote the entire post to get your message across.
JR
08-09-2003, 03:17 AM
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JR I understand, I should have been more clear, what I was getting at was the need to re-post and re-post the entire thing . BTW, i get your drift concerning pinhead umm i mean ball
08-09-2003, 04:59 PM
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On the value of moderators
Again, you guys are focusing on the person (me), and not the message. Here's Marc's vision for RCU:
Nobody has explained why this shouldn't be so for the AMA discussions. You may disagree, but I maintain the lack of moderation (which certainly could apply to one of my posts) creates an atmosphere where personal attacks proliferate, to nobody's benefit. When a discussion about a rule, or insurance, or whatever, descends into attacks on the character of the poster, nobody wins.
Jim, I forgave you long ago. Probably, your biggest crime is being witty, which can be misunderstood on the Internet. More, I've learned from you (and my poll) that about 50% of RCU members think less (or a lot less) of anonymous posters. That was something I was totally unaware of. For this reason, as soon as I can think of a new handle, pinball will be leaving. Good luck with your campaign.
J_R, out of 498 posts by pinball (and hundreds before in my "real name" handle), I have deleted 2. The first was where I had mis-read a question and my answer did not apply. The 2nd is the one you mention. I deleted it because I thought it was unfair to Jim to print a newgroup post from years ago. My post was about anonymity and, on reflection, I didn't think the quote was necessary or fair. I thought I was doing the ethical and responsible thing to delete it and to post a note as to what I had done and why. Nobody has said that Jim didn't write the material quoted.
RCUniverse.com is dedicated to developing and maintaining a friendly online community, where members of all ages and backgrounds feel relaxed and comfortable.
Jim, I forgave you long ago. Probably, your biggest crime is being witty, which can be misunderstood on the Internet. More, I've learned from you (and my poll) that about 50% of RCU members think less (or a lot less) of anonymous posters. That was something I was totally unaware of. For this reason, as soon as I can think of a new handle, pinball will be leaving. Good luck with your campaign.
J_R, out of 498 posts by pinball (and hundreds before in my "real name" handle), I have deleted 2. The first was where I had mis-read a question and my answer did not apply. The 2nd is the one you mention. I deleted it because I thought it was unfair to Jim to print a newgroup post from years ago. My post was about anonymity and, on reflection, I didn't think the quote was necessary or fair. I thought I was doing the ethical and responsible thing to delete it and to post a note as to what I had done and why. Nobody has said that Jim didn't write the material quoted.
08-09-2003, 05:18 PM
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Tell you what pinball
Go out and find the context that Jim's statement was made in. Really understand what was happening. Then come back and put the statement in context. Then, and only then, will I believe your sincerity. You read 200 of his posts to find the post you re-posted on this forum. Now go read several hundred from him and others that will put it in context. YOU brought the one here, now YOU go and bring the context. Don't expect anyone else to do it for you. Post it into the same thread you threw dirt on.
JR
Go out and find the context that Jim's statement was made in. Really understand what was happening. Then come back and put the statement in context. Then, and only then, will I believe your sincerity. You read 200 of his posts to find the post you re-posted on this forum. Now go read several hundred from him and others that will put it in context. YOU brought the one here, now YOU go and bring the context. Don't expect anyone else to do it for you. Post it into the same thread you threw dirt on.
JR
08-09-2003, 05:55 PM
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On the value of moderators
In the beginning, Marc realized that this forum was different. It is basically political in nature. As with politics in real life, it can and it does get contentious. It is not like a forum on how to feed and care for engines. It is not even lilke the Clubhouse where the nice people hold nice discussions. This one is passionate. Tempers flare, opinions differ and that is to be expected. Marc realized, early on, that trying to use the same standards for moderators in a politically based forum was not going to work. There are rules here, very basic, simple rules. Elwood has made them clear in a recent post he made.
Personally, I maintain respect for most that I cross swords with. Bill Lee, Horrace Cain, Jim Branaum, Red Scholefield, Bill Vargas and Marc Vigod come to mind immediately. There are many others. Maintaining respect does not equate to holding my tongue when it comes to my opinion. A lot of my posts deal with facts about the AMA that are not opinion. I try, not always successfully, to let the reader know which is which.
Anyone trying to turn this forum into something that is a-political will be much better served by researching the web for answers to things like insurance questions. Here, there will undoubtedly be attacks against, and defense of the AMA, in almost every thread. They do get personal... it's the nature of politics.
To my surprise, Marc has the stomach and guts to continue to host this forum. Thanks Marc.
JR
Personally, I maintain respect for most that I cross swords with. Bill Lee, Horrace Cain, Jim Branaum, Red Scholefield, Bill Vargas and Marc Vigod come to mind immediately. There are many others. Maintaining respect does not equate to holding my tongue when it comes to my opinion. A lot of my posts deal with facts about the AMA that are not opinion. I try, not always successfully, to let the reader know which is which.
Anyone trying to turn this forum into something that is a-political will be much better served by researching the web for answers to things like insurance questions. Here, there will undoubtedly be attacks against, and defense of the AMA, in almost every thread. They do get personal... it's the nature of politics.
To my surprise, Marc has the stomach and guts to continue to host this forum. Thanks Marc.
JR
08-13-2003, 04:14 AM
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Well some feel that more moderation is needed here in this forum, so you got it!!!! This thread is not about AMA and I feel it has gone on long enough, and enough has been said so I am closing it down, notice I didn't delete it all together.
