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AMA liability insurance, what about this scenario?

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Old 04-08-2011, 07:21 PM
  #1
AraTidwell
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Default AMA liability insurance, what about this scenario?

I am not sure what sparked the thought, but the other day an unusual question popped into my head. What if an AMA pilot loses control of his airplane, and say hits an expensive, parked, unoperated100cc airplane sitting in the pit area? Will the AMA insurance of the offending pilot cover damages to the stationary model in the pit area? If so, what are the limits? If not, WHY not? Because my understanding is, if that same pilot were to hit my vehicle in the parking area, the AMA would cover it. I have actually seen this happen one time, but the pilot by chance hit his own vehicle!
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Old 04-08-2011, 07:34 PM
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Default RE: AMA liability insurance, what about this scenario?

Ara,

No, AMA insurance will not cover that loss.
As to why not............because AMA chooses to not provide that coverage.
You would have to ask them directly as to why they made that choice.
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Old 04-08-2011, 08:43 PM
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Default RE: AMA liability insurance, what about this scenario?

There was some discussion on this subject here a few years ago in fact I may have been the one to ask the question, Anyway as has been already said
the AMA wont cover damage to a plane parked in the pits caused by another model. FWIW I think a plane parked in the pits should be covered if damaged
by someone other than its owner.
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Old 04-08-2011, 11:51 PM
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Default RE: AMA liability insurance, what about this scenario?

If I may speculate for a moment, let me suggest this possible reason: fraud. OK, hitting someone else's car could have been a fraudulent setup too, but at least there is reasonable 3rd party control of damage valuation (auto body shop). If a plane is hit in the pits and AMA insurance is to cover it, what requirements could AMA establish to ensure that it is not fraud (how many witnesses, what evidence, etc.) and how can the AMA establish a fair and reasonable value. Putting myself in their shoes, specifically not covering damaged airplanes is the cleanest approach.

Remember, claims payments ultimately come out of AMA funds, which mostly originate from our dues.

Bedford
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Old 04-09-2011, 05:26 AM
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Default RE: AMA liability insurance, what about this scenario?

Quote:
ORIGINAL: beepee

fraud. OK, hitting someone else's car could have been a fraudulent setup too, but at least there is reasonable 3rd party control of damage valuation (auto body shop). If a plane is hit in the pits and AMA insurance is to cover it, what requirements could AMA establish to ensure that it is not fraud (how many witnesses, what evidence, etc.) and how can the AMA establish a fair and reasonable value. Putting myself in their shoes, specifically not covering damaged airplanes is the cleanest approach.

Bedford

But if you claim your plane burnt down while charging in the pits, the AMA will pay... not sure what makes that incident so different, as for as fraud goes... or you could claim it was stolen from your car... no real difference there either in regards to fraud.

The real difference is the liability of another party. How to assess that within the same policy. Sort of like running your model into another AMA member while flying. Outside of the medical coverage we as AMA members have, the rest will likely be determined in a court of law. Model airplane damages usually will not rise to anything more than a small claims court action in the event of a incident of accidental collision... and there is usually no other insurance companies involved for the subrogation of such incidences... So, in most cases, just fight it out...you are on your on...
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Old 04-09-2011, 10:42 AM
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Default RE: AMA liability insurance, what about this scenario?

For all of you that think AMA should provide insurance payable for any and every thing, my bet is that you will be the first to P & M, big time, should AMA have to raise dues a lousy 10 bucks just to provide such a policy. It doesn't take much financial analysis to conclude that everything one gets free, at the cost of others, is darn well not free to those that provide the real costs of such programs.
At this time of year, I don't have much fondness for those that expect everything to be free as I have to tally up with the Federal Government. I do support AMA far beyond the average member, but not to provide damage reimbursement to someone's big-bird.[:-] [:@]
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Old 04-09-2011, 10:50 AM
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Default RE: AMA liability insurance, what about this scenario?

in an effort to help the OP with his insurance for liability of damaging other guys planes,
I believe the $20, $1mil Primary insurance from USAMA does not have that exclusion, it would cover that
(if the insured's plane is 12lb or under, UASMA only insures pilots of sub12 craft)
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Old 04-09-2011, 11:49 AM
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Default RE: AMA liability insurance, what about this scenario?


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Hossfly

For all of you that think AMA should provide insurance payable for any and every thing, my bet is that you will be the first to P & M, big time, should AMA have to raise dues a lousy 10 bucks just to provide such a policy. It doesn't take much financial analysis to conclude that everything one gets free, at the cost of others, is darn well not free to those that provide the real costs of such programs.
Amen to that Hoss. Didn't see any comment from you in the "AMA General Liability Insurance" thread, where I think it would have been appropos.

First Post: "I would like to say THANK YOU to Dave Mathewson and Andy Argenio for all of the efforts in extending the AMA Generial Liability coverage to members who serve as CD's, Aircraft Inspectors, and AVP's. As I had discussed in a previous message, these members have increased exposure to law suits do to the service they provide to the AMA. This extended insurance would most likely not have been provided without the efforts of Dave and Andy. This additional coverage did not cost anything to obtain-no increase in premium. "

I know that you know darned well it does have a real cost, notwithstanding the statement I bolded. No increase in premium, BFD. Premiums are paid to Westchester, who can well afford give away free insurance coverage when the bulk of the claims payout is not made by them but rather made directly from AMA coffers (SIR). Maybe they both think we don't know who pays for their benevolence.
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Old 04-09-2011, 05:44 PM
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Default RE: AMA liability insurance, what about this scenario?

I for one do not expect everything for free and never said I did, However if a plane that is parked in the pits is damaged by another AMA member I see no
reason as it ispart ofa modelingactivity why it should not be covered. I can understand why midairs are not covered because it would very difficult to
determine fault.

Another point I would like to make models damaged while in the pits seem to be fairly rare model damaged while on the taxi way or a little more
frequent I have hadflight line support equip damaged by a runaway plane and I think anytime a model is on the ground and damaged it should
be covered along with any support equip that may be damaged.
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Old 04-10-2011, 12:46 AM
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Default RE: AMA liability insurance, what about this scenario?

"But if you claim your plane burnt down while charging in the pits, the AMA will pay... not sure what makes that incident so different, as for as fraud goes... or you could claim it was stolen from your car... no real difference there either in regards to fraud."

If you say so littlecrankshaf, but did not know that. It does seem a much easier path to fraudulent claim than hitting another airplane, even if it is stationary (I know I couldn't do it given 100 free attempts!).

Bottom line is that what is paid in claims is paid by the group as a whole. Personally, I would never take something to fly that I felt I needed insurance coverage to protect the asset value. Stuff happens when you fly, and maybe RARELY happens on the ground. I can handle the risk.

Bedford
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Old 04-10-2011, 04:44 AM
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Default RE: AMA liability insurance, what about this scenario?


Quote:
ORIGINAL: cj_rumley

This additional coverage did not cost anything to obtain-no increase in premium. ''

I know that you know darned well it does have a real cost, notwithstanding the statement I bolded. No increase in premium, BFD. Premiums are paid to Westchester, who can well afford give away free insurance coverage when the bulk of the claims payout is not made by them but rather made directly from AMA coffers (SIR). Maybe they both think we don't know who pays for their benevolence.
You nailed it cj. I just don't understand why people buy in to these type of BS lines. Funny how people will say there is no free lunches...but are ecstatic when they are feed this kind of crap... I guess crap is great food for mushrooms...
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