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How many would opt out of Model Aviation?

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View Poll Results: A poll
I would opt out of getting MA.
7.62%
I would opt out only if my dues were reduced.
23.33%
I have already opted out and have my copy sent to a library or school
0.46%
I have already had my name removed from the mailing list.
0.23%
I want to get MA each month.
68.36%
Voters: 433. You may not vote on this poll

How many would opt out of Model Aviation?

Old 05-23-2011, 03:52 PM
  #51  
KidEpoxy
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Default RE: How many would opt out of Model Aviation?

VP
The MAJORITY SPEAKS!
But what are they saying?

When you see 70% want to get the magazine,
can you tell me what % of that 70 are saying
i) I like getting/payingfor the magazine and dont care what others do
ii) I like forcing everyone to get/payfor the magazine regardless if they want to pay/get it


All we know is
70% want either to get the magazine as optional or as forced
30% want to skip getting the magazine

this poll clearly was not setup to see who wants a choice to exist,
its just asking what folks would choose if there was a choice
(by definition, if there was no choice then folks cant 'choose' any answer in the poll)

Yes, the majority is speaking,
they are just not saying what you believe they are saying
Old 05-23-2011, 04:41 PM
  #52  
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Default RE: How many would opt out of Model Aviation?


ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy

VP
The MAJORITY SPEAKS!
But what are they saying?

When you see 70% want to get the magazine,
can you tell me what % of that 70 are saying
i) I like getting/payingfor the magazine and dont care what others do
ii) I like forcing everyone to get/payfor the magazine regardless if they want to pay/get it


All we know is
70% want either to get the magazine as optional or as forced
30% want to skip getting the magazine

this poll clearly was not setup to see who wants a choice to exist,
its just asking what folks would choose if there was a choice
(by definition, if there was no choice then folks cant 'choose' any answer in the poll)

Yes, the majority is speaking,
they are just not saying what you believe they are saying
Or more likely they are saying they like the magazine ...............................

Brad
Old 05-23-2011, 05:46 PM
  #53  
PopPhil
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Default RE: How many would opt out of Model Aviation?

WOW, to think of not receiving the MA and supporting the AMA by doing so sucks. In this day and age we need the AMA more than ever. just my two cents.
Old 05-23-2011, 05:51 PM
  #54  
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Default RE: How many would opt out of Model Aviation?

I like reading the magazine. I gather up my MAN and FLy RC with MA and donate them to the local library for people to pick up. The last time I did, I came back the next day and all the RC magazines I had left were gone. The Southern Living magazines my wife had donated were still there, ha, ha.
Old 05-23-2011, 08:22 PM
  #55  
ram3500-RCU
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Default RE: How many would opt out of Model Aviation?

I don't understand this pole. Why do you care what anyone else likes? If you don't enjoy MA, just opt out. Done. Move on. Those of us who do enjoy it, will continue to enjoy it. And guess what, I don't care in the least that you don't. 'Different strokes', as they say.
Old 05-23-2011, 09:48 PM
  #56  
ira d
 
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Default RE: How many would opt out of Model Aviation?

I voted thatI would like to receive the mag, I really dont see any advantage of not receiveing Model Avation it'snot going to siginficantly lower my dues
by not receiveing it that we know, I would think that 85 to 90% of the cost of producing the mag comes from the ad revnue so maybe $5.00 a year in
saving on our dues.
Old 05-23-2011, 11:04 PM
  #57  
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Default RE: How many would opt out of Model Aviation?

I would think that 85 to 90% of the cost of producing the mag comes from the ad revnue
I would have guessed the advertizing revenue would be much lower,
that is to say, I would have guessed but instead just looked up the amounts

2009 Annual financial report (check the financial page of MA)
Model Aviation Advertising 914,671
Model Aviation Subscriptions 54,411
Model Aviation direct costs 1,617,965


the fun starts when you look at the cost to produce the ads that made that revenue,
breaking down some of the $1.6mil magazine costs:
AdCommissions 119,219
Advrt printing 315,387
Advrt Postage 156,188
...and some non-ad costs
Printing 535,485
Mailing 417,040
Mag Labor ..... not reported as a cost of the magazine




so
No, the advertising revenue is not 80-90% the cost of producing the magazine as you speculated.
But 2009 was better than previous years, the years we refer to MA as "$1mil In, $2mil Out"
Old 05-24-2011, 12:03 AM
  #58  
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Default RE: How many would opt out of Model Aviation?


ORIGINAL: ira d

I voted that I would like to receive the mag, I really dont see any advantage of not receiveing Model Avation it's not going to siginficantly lower my dues
by not receiveing it that we know, I would think that 85 to 90% of the cost of producing the mag comes from the ad revnue so maybe $5.00 a year in
saving on our dues.

For IRAD and others that simply do not care to go and find the info. as located within the Annual AMA Audit report.
Here is a very brief synopsis of the true financial picture concerning the magazine Model Aviation and the actual costs thereof.

Ask AMA: http://www.modelaircraft.org/aboutam...n/hqstaff.aspx
16 names under "Publications"

Membership: 8 names with 2 of those, IMO, misplaced, the telephone operator and a shipping clerk.

Membership Benefits: 5 names with 2 of those not really servicing membership but rather AMA Organizational Administrative duties.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/Members...tatements.aspx

Park Pilot magazine revenue 2010 $91,498
PP mag. ....Direct Costs ..................2010 $95,843


Model Aviation advertising income 2010: $ 820,339 2009 $ 914,671 Shows a drop of 94,332 for 2010 ref. 2009

Model Aviation subscriptions, 2010 $ 51,482 another drop from 2009 $54,411
"Subscriptions" are those magazines sold to Hobby Shops and individual, school, etc. subscriptions. That figure has absolutely
NOTHING to do with member magazines. Member magazine costs are part of your dues


Model Aviation Direct costs not including manpower expense. MA direct costs $1,655,029

While KE also beat me to giving you the information, I'm posting this anyway.

If you fail to understand where the money is directed, and certain expense well hidden away from the casual observer, then you're beyond my help.

Compare this direct expense to your liability insurance expense; Insurance - Membership 971,280
Old 05-24-2011, 01:57 AM
  #59  
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Default RE: How many would opt out of Model Aviation?

ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy

VP
The MAJORITY SPEAKS!
But what are they saying?

When you see 70% want to get the magazine,
can you tell me what % of that 70 are saying
i) I like getting/payingfor the magazine and dont care what others do
ii) I like forcing everyone to get/payfor the magazine regardless if they want to pay/get it


All we know is
70% want either to get the magazine as optional or as forced
30% want to skip getting the magazine

this poll clearly was not setup to see who wants a choice to exist,
its just asking what folks would choose if there was a choice
(by definition, if there was no choice then folks cant 'choose' any answer in the poll)

Yes, the majority is speaking,
they are just not saying what you believe they are saying
I'm one of those 72%. I'll pick (i) in your sub-poll, see there is always a choice. I receive several membership magazines from a number of organizations and MA is the one I look most forward to. I can't think of any membership organizations that do not have a newsletter/magazine. Can you name any that don't?

Regards
Frank
Old 05-24-2011, 03:58 AM
  #60  
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Default RE: How many would opt out of Model Aviation?

I would opt out of the magazine. I don't really look at the MA magazine anyway... usually goes straight in the trash.

Almost every article is biased. Always saying good things about the product being reviewed. Then, when I look at the actual plane, I find many things that need to be corrected or reinforced... especially the ARF's. The reviews in MA somehow overlook things like this.

My 3 cents.


Old 05-24-2011, 04:39 AM
  #61  
PopPhil
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Default RE: How many would opt out of Model Aviation?

" Hello" is this not a nonprofit org.? For our benefit.
Old 05-24-2011, 06:07 AM
  #62  
KidEpoxy
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Default RE: How many would opt out of Model Aviation?

Frank-

Earlier-
When you see 70% want to get the magazine,
can you tell me what % of that 70 are saying
i) I like getting/payingfor the magazine and dont care what others do
ii) I like forcing everyone to get/payfor the magazine regardless if they want to pay/get it


I'm one of those 72%. I'll pick (i) in your sub-poll, see there is always a choice. I receive several membership magazines from a number of organizations and MA is the one I look most forward to. I can't think of any membership organizations that do not have a newsletter/magazine. Can you name any that don't?

Regards
Frank
You did a wonderful job of explaining why you like the magazine, and would choose to continue to get&pay it. Great, obviously you would choose Reds polls selection that you want the magazine.
Optional MA would work just great for you: You opt to continue to get&pay for it no changes for you

What you didnt explain is why you feel that just because YOU like it and want to get&pay it,
therefore all others members must be foreced to get&pay it, even those that dont want to get&pay it.



If you want the name of the 501c that doesnt mandate their magazine mailed,
ask Able P for first person data on the one he is in that dont (iirc it was a rocket org i think)


.....

why are we having to repeat the debunking of magazine myths
that have been debunked to death over the years.
Cant folks just stop using the debunked myths and come up with decent points to support their agenda
so we dont have YET ANOTHER thread where folks post myths as fact and others have to again debunk them
Old 05-24-2011, 06:20 AM
  #63  
ira d
 
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Default RE: How many would opt out of Model Aviation?

So it looks as around $650,000 of the mag cost comes from the members I dont at this time know what
that would break down per member I will look it up later.
Old 05-24-2011, 06:36 AM
  #64  
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Default RE: How many would opt out of Model Aviation?

Just took a look at the poll results as of right now... almost 30% of the responders would opt out or have opted out already.

That seems a very high percentage given the venue the poll is being taken in. I wouldn't be at all surprised that if given the choice, with an appropriate discount during membership renewal or at the initial joining, that percentage might be more than double...


Unfortunately that might cause the rest of us that do like the mag to pay more...but hey, the monetary "cost" of AMA isn't a/the problem for many of us...
Old 05-24-2011, 06:52 AM
  #65  
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Default RE: How many would opt out of Model Aviation?

So it looks as around $650,000 of the mag cost comes from the members
Well, that is one of the agenda's way of looking at it.
If the agenda is to get a tiny dues reduction for opting out, then yeah, only $650k comes from members,
If the agenda is to say there would be a big dues reduction cause of big costs,
then you add in the labor costs of the magazine... how much do you think we pay the 12 folks in the Pubs Dept at muncie, obviously any dues reduction would have to consider their substantial labor cost ... the number would be that $650k you mentioned plus the salaries of 6-8 folks (you know any Emeriti that work cheap?)
Or, you can believe the AMA comptroller when he says $58Open = $18Magazine +$40 All the rest of AMA

so, it all depends on what position one wants to support
as to what numbers you use


anyhoo,
we have plenty of MA financing threads,
lets shift the finance mything and debunking to one of them
so we can get this show back on the road
Old 05-24-2011, 06:58 AM
  #66  
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Default RE: How many would opt out of Model Aviation?

For the record, I voted that I want to get the magazine. I personally think it’s a great magazine with a wealth of information that touches so many aspects of the hobby. Some of them I do not participate in but I still get something out of those that makes my projects/aircraft better. MA is so much better than any of the other magazines that "support" the hobby. Other than RC Report which still I believe has plusses and minuses for the items reviewed, MA is the only one that I feel gives an honest review. It is not beholden to the manufacturers'.

I trust the AMA as the voice and entity looking out for the general hobby exceedingly more than I do this website or any of the others. That doesn't mean I don't get into the sites and use them at my discretion. While these free sites are great additions to the information flow, from my perspective the many "experts" leave a lot to be desired. I joined the scale builders website which requires a fee to be a member. Totally different dynamic over on that site.

I look at our political process and see that one group did not like the previous administration and so they worked to effect a change. Now the other side doesn't like the current administration and last November they worked to effect some changes to make their position stronger. Each side did the right thing as opposed to the folks in Wisconsin a few months ago, who took their ball and went away.

So, for those of you who don't like getting the magazine and want some money back, keep working and writing and posting threads to that effect and perhaps you will be able to get that changed. Otherwise, go pound sand if that makes you feel better.
Old 05-24-2011, 07:01 AM
  #67  
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Default RE: How many would opt out of Model Aviation?

AMEN LarsL


Vince
Old 05-24-2011, 08:05 AM
  #68  
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Default RE: How many would opt out of Model Aviation?

ORIGINAL: vpresley

AMEN LarsL


Vince

Was a pretty good post... for the most part and I guess especially for the more religious AMAer but still not sure why people would have a problem with "choice" and why he said to pound sand... Oh well...
Old 05-24-2011, 08:11 AM
  #69  
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Default RE: How many would opt out of Model Aviation?

I would rather get an 'e-magazine' so as to save paper, $$$, postage, et al.
Old 05-24-2011, 09:21 AM
  #70  
ira d
 
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Default RE: How many would opt out of Model Aviation?

If some folks was to opt out of the magazine the publication dept would still be there, But the AMA
site says the AMA has about 150,000 members or just over that amount. So if the members carry
650k of the magazine cost that would work out to about $4.35 per member seems to me.
Old 05-24-2011, 09:58 AM
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Default RE: How many would opt out of Model Aviation?


ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf

ORIGINAL: vpresley

AMEN LarsL


Vince

Was a pretty good post... for the most part and I guess especially for the more religious AMAer but still not sure why people would have a problem with ''choice'' and why he said to pound sand... Oh well...
I figured the post was good for those religous AMAers and the religous anit-AMAers.

I don't have a problem with choice. It seems to me that a person can choose to quit the AMA if they don't like where their dues money is going or they can choose to try to change that (which I encouraged they continue to do). If they don't like either of those two options, then they can choose ... whatever if it isn't pounding sand.


Old 05-24-2011, 10:46 AM
  #72  
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Default RE: How many would opt out of Model Aviation?

ORIGINAL: ira d

If some folks was to opt out of the magazine the publication dept would still be there, But the AMA
site says the AMA has about 150,000 members or just over that amount. So if the members carry
650k of the magazine cost that would work out to about $4.35 per member seems to me.

Membership Numbers at close out for the years:

2002.........................173420
2003.........................168075
2004.........................163709
2005.........................161006
2006.........................156765
2007**************151394
2008**************148487
2009>>>>>>>>>>>142231

2010.....................139515

There are "abouts" and there is official. The continuing decline is OFFICIAL.
Old 05-24-2011, 11:43 AM
  #73  
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Default RE: How many would opt out of Model Aviation?

To calculate the real $ amount You need to find out how many pay the extra $18 each year,, many members don't pay annually for it or receive the mag at all, some are life members, some are youth in same household, etc.

The question I have for those 70 or so % that are happy to receive the Magazine,, If AMA did offer a $40 (no Mag) membership to us 30%, would you pick up the slack to get the mag by collectively paying more, say $62-$63/month??? If you really had a choice,, I'm guessing the majority would swing to the cheaper No mag option.
Old 05-24-2011, 12:03 PM
  #74  
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Default RE: How many would opt out of Model Aviation?


ORIGINAL: Hossfly

ORIGINAL: ira d

If some folks was to opt out of the magazine the publication dept would still be there, But the AMA
site says the AMA has about 150,000 members or just over that amount. So if the members carry
650k of the magazine cost that would work out to about $4.35 per member seems to me.

Membership Numbers at close out for the years:

2002.........................173420
2003.........................168075
2004.........................163709
2005.........................161006
2006.........................156765
2007**************151394
2008**************148487
2009>>>>>>>>>>>142231

2010.....................139515

There are ''abouts'' and there is official. The continuing decline is OFFICIAL.

A decline in membership also has happened to other organizations: AOPA, EAA, the number fo full scale pilots nose dived, the quantity of pilot students dropped... This proves one thing: We are not immune to the economy.

Gerry


Old 05-24-2011, 12:21 PM
  #75  
Red Scholefield
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Default RE: How many would opt out of Model Aviation?


ORIGINAL: scale only 4 me

To calculate the real $ amount You need to find out how many pay the extra $18 each year,, many members don't pay annually for it or receive the mag at all, some are life members, some are youth in same household, etc.
Life membership is $1500, an annuity that would cover the magazine for over 40 years at 2.5% interest. Youth members in the same househould do not get a copy.

The question I have for those 70 or so % that are happy to receive the Magazine,, If AMA did offer a $40 (no Mag) membership to us 30%, would you pick up the slack to get the mag by collectively paying more, say $62-$63/month??? If you really had a choice,, I'm guessing the majority would swing to the cheaper No mag option.
Non sequitur !

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