Go Back  RCU Forums > RC Airplanes > AMA Discussions
Reload this Page >

Lawsuit filed against AMA

Notices
AMA Discussions Discuss AMA policies, decisions & any other AMA related topics here.

Lawsuit filed against AMA

Old 06-10-2011, 06:27 PM
  #51  
VF84sluggo
My Feedback: (55)
 
VF84sluggo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL
Posts: 2,367
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Lawsuit filed against AMA


ORIGINAL: pmerritt
I think there is some fine print on the back of the AMA application that says something to the effect:

I ______________ (name) do agree that if I so much as touch a piece of balsa, CA, Monokote, or any item which resembles a propeller, I I hereby relinquish all rights and privileges to sex, affection, petting, fondling, meals, clean underwear or having the appropriate key to known residence of the current assigned spouse until death do you part!

HAPPY CONSORTIUMLESS FLYING!
Just showed this to my wife, and she not only agrees, but showed ME her certified copy of it that the AMA sent her as proof of my forfeiture of "consortium"...dang that AMA!
Old 06-10-2011, 06:47 PM
  #52  
KidEpoxy
Senior Member
 
KidEpoxy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 6,681
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Lawsuit filed against AMA

Silent
This event was not run by the AMA. It was run by a local soaring group. The only involvement of the AMA was that it took place on the AMA facility.
The AMA had nothing to do with this contest. It was run by a local soaring group that puts on a soaring contest series around the Midwest each summer. This was not the first time they had run contests at the Muncie facility. But the AMA had nothing to do with it beyond providing the place.
You do know AMA has Site Insurance for the landowners of chartering clubs, right?

How can you keep a straight face when you now say
the soaring guys activity and lawsuits have nothing to do with the landowner of a sanctioned event?

Wouldnt this be a non-issue if it happened at just some regular club field,
where we would all just say
Well, thats why we have site insurance-
to protect the landowners from lawsuits coming from the toy plane guys' activities on their land.

but,
folks just need to defend the shrine in indiana.
Any other landowner and we just point at the Site Insurance
Old 06-10-2011, 07:23 PM
  #53  
Hossfly
Thread Starter
 
Hossfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Caney, TX
Posts: 6,130
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Lawsuit filed against AMA


ORIGINAL: Syssa Aircraft

The part that is interesting is where the suit says Miller ''did not have much experience'' in flying model planes, and that the AMA ''was negligent when it allowed Mr. Miler to fly his aircraft near spectators.''

What gives with this??? How is the AMA supposed to know how good of pilot anyone is???

I guess you can say anything you want in a suit...and whether you win or not is a different story.
When one enters an AMA Sanctioned Contest, that one signs a form stating - in paraphrase - that he/she the pilot is qualified to perform all maneuvers required in that event, and that the aircraft being used is capable of said maneuvers.

QUOTED: RADIO CONTROL, GENERAL (FOR NONSCALE EVENTS)
2. Safety Declaration. At all sanctioned contests, each contestant shall sign an AMA Flight Safety Declaration (perhaps as part of an entry form), attesting to the fact that he/she has previously and is now capable of confidently performing the maneuvers comprising his competitive event. Furthermore, the contestant shall also similarly declare that any and all aircraft he/she uses in said competition have been test flown at least to the extent that they have performed the same competitive maneuvers and are therefore qualified to be flown in the contest and in the presence of fellow contestants, contest officials, and all others who may be in the flight area during the competition period.

Now, just my opinion, if a court finds there is fault of either or both the pilot's ability, and/or the aircraft's capability, then my experience leads me to believe the plaintiff may well have a good case against the pilot, the sponsors, and the land-owner, the AMA.
Old 06-10-2011, 07:54 PM
  #54  
Silent-AV8R
 
Silent-AV8R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 5,312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Lawsuit filed against AMA

How so? The above statement clearly states that it is the pilot's responsibility to warrant as to their skill. Nowhere do I see that the AMA is responsible for assessing if the person possesses the requisite skills.

I have not heard of anyone suing the FAA for a case involving pilot error. The FAA examines and certifies pilots, so if there is a pilot error incident is it not the FAA's fault??
Old 06-10-2011, 08:39 PM
  #55  
Hossfly
Thread Starter
 
Hossfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Caney, TX
Posts: 6,130
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Lawsuit filed against AMA


ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R

How so? The above statement clearly states that it is the pilot's responsibility to warrant as to their skill. Nowhere do I see that the AMA is responsible for assessing if the person possesses the requisite skills.
Aw shucks, Bill, you well know the signature document is an AMA document.
I have not heard of anyone suing the FAA for a case involving pilot error. The FAA examines and certifies pilots, so if there is a pilot error incident is it not the FAA's fault??
The FAA is government. AMA is NOT government. That makes a difference. FAA can remove a pilot's certification, as they say, "We gave you that license and we can take it away." The pilot cannot then fly for money. AMA can remove a member's membership but that doesn't take away the person's right to fly outside AMA's corn patch. [:-]

As I stated - "my opinion". In this situation a person can sue for whatever. The court settles it or the legal beagles make a settlement outside of court. Never know what a court will do. Now I don't care to argue the case here, so if you need additional recreation, take it out on someone else.
Old 06-10-2011, 09:34 PM
  #56  
Silent-AV8R
 
Silent-AV8R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 5,312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Lawsuit filed against AMA

Yes, an AMA document where the PILOT attests that he is competent. The AMA did not certify him, he did. How does that transfer to the AMA??

(Note: changed certifies to attests since that seemed important to at least one person.)
Old 06-11-2011, 03:17 AM
  #57  
scale only 4 me
My Feedback: (158)
 
scale only 4 me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Avon Lake, OH
Posts: 10,380
Received 51 Likes on 49 Posts
Default RE: Lawsuit filed against AMA

LOL, you guys would argue/speculate all day if the Sun will come up tomorrow or not if some one posts the question here. Any subject is ripe for a fight..
Old 06-11-2011, 03:24 AM
  #58  
pmerritt
My Feedback: (118)
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Wylie, TX
Posts: 445
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Lawsuit filed against AMA

Yeh, I didn't know abstinence was one of the qualifications one has to encounter when learning to fly! Oh well, I'm going to get me a big ole GeeBee and mold some big ole boobs on the front of it, give it a name and fondle the hell out of it while watching 2011 SISwimsuit Edition on ESPNII. That'll teach her!

HEY!!!! CANSOMEONEPLUGTHEEXTENSIONCORDTOTHEDOGHOUSEBACKISB EFOREMYLAPTOPBATTERYGOESOUT?????




ORIGINAL: VF84sluggo


ORIGINAL: pmerritt
Ithink there is some fine print on the back of the AMAapplication that says something to the effect:

I ______________ (name) do agree that if I so much as touch a piece of balsa, CA, Monokote, or any item which resembles a propeller, I Ihereby relinquish all rights and privileges to sex, affection, petting, fondling,meals, clean underwear orhaving the appropriate key toknown residence of thecurrentassignedspouse until death do you part!

HAPPYCONSORTIUMLESSFLYING!
Just showed this to my wife, and she not only agrees, but showed ME her certified copy of it that the AMA sent her as proof of my forfeiture of "consortium"...dang that AMA!
Old 06-11-2011, 03:32 AM
  #59  
samp
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Newnan, GA
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Lawsuit filed against AMA

I find this whole scenario disgusting. People have lost touch with common sense. I hope, if this goes to trial, that enough modelers and spectators are called by the AMA to bury the attorney who filed this action. It is time for some of these people who play lawsuit lotto to feel the consequences in their own pocketbook. It is imperative that the AMA set a precedent here. Otherwise there are thousands of unprincipled attorneys eagerly seeking ways to pick our pockets.

General Aviation reached a point where the liability load per airframe exceeded $75K on a Cessna single. Without going into all the cases here, many of them were without merit whatsoever, but the courts allowed the plaintiffs to venue shop. Eventually the manufacturers all but quit defending themselves.
Old 06-11-2011, 03:45 AM
  #60  
littlecrankshaf
My Feedback: (58)
 
littlecrankshaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: here
Posts: 5,413
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Lawsuit filed against AMA

ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R

Yes, an AMA document where the PILOT certifies that he is competent. The AMA did not certify him, he did. How does that transfer to the AMA??
certifies??? Yea, the certification process... sign here... Oh don't get me going... Look, it is a travesty that AMA is being sued but it is the AMA that has supplied much of the asphalt that paved the road...

AMA should have spent much more time working on implementation of legislation across the country that absolves property owners of liabilities associated with model flying as we have done here in Texas. Instead they continue to supply the meat that the sharks feeds on... The sharks grow... one day they look at you and think ummm...
Old 06-11-2011, 04:25 AM
  #61  
ARUP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,343
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Lawsuit filed against AMA


ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot

Remember the infamous McDonald's hot coffee spill and the large settlement.
Bad example, many claim that was a valid suit. The woman required skin grafts. The woman was not driving, her husband pulled over and she pulled to top off which was stubborn and popped off spilling most of the contents in her lap. IMO not worth the award she got, but worthy of a lesser award.
She didn't deserve anything. You, I and most other logical folks know cars are for trasnportation purposes not eating, drinking, talking on telephones, eating cereal (I've seen that), reading newspaper, putting on makeup, etc. However, since auto makers continue to put cupholders in vehicles then they should be held culpable. McD got a lot of free press out of it and actually sold lots of coffee because it became known their coffee was 'hot'! Their attorneys decided to settle as a good will gesture. I haven't made a purchase from McD since. There were some issues about the coffeemaker thermostats called into question about that case, also. Our 'system' sure is 'wonderful'! No where else in the world can money be made through incompetence and the 'blame-game'. Makes me want to weep. The Meeks are welcome at any function I attend- NOT! I hope they choke on the money they 'earn'!
Old 06-11-2011, 04:50 AM
  #62  
804
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: sheridan, IN
Posts: 1,167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Lawsuit filed against AMA

ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf

ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R

Yes, an AMA document where the PILOT certifies that he is competent. The AMA did not certify him, he did. How does that transfer to the AMA??
certifies??? Yea, the certification process... sign here... Oh don't get me going... Look, it is a travesty that AMA is being sued but it is the AMA that has supplied much of the asphalt that paved the road...

AMA should have spent much more time working on implementation of legislation across the country that absolves property owners of liabilities associated with model flying as we have done here in Texas. Instead they continue to supply the meat that the sharks feeds on... The sharks grow... one day they look at you and think ummm...
Maybe, but does the law in Texas and other states stop lawsuits in civil court?
The quote from Silent sounds alot like the waivers we sign in AMA amateur motocross.
By the time you buy your AMA card, district card, pay at the gate, and sign up to race,
you will have signed 4 waivers that you understand moto is dangerous, and that the facility and promotors
are not responsible for anything.
Spectators sign the same document upon entry.
Yet, suits are filed, and if nothing else, settled.
I don't see AMA or anyone else being able to solve that.
Old 06-11-2011, 05:35 AM
  #63  
TexasAirBoss
My Feedback: (22)
 
TexasAirBoss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,972
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Lawsuit filed against AMA

Wouldn't the pilot's primary insurance and its lawyers step in ?
Old 06-11-2011, 06:03 AM
  #64  
KidEpoxy
Senior Member
 
KidEpoxy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 6,681
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Lawsuit filed against AMA

PF-
Look at the landowners Site Insurance ama sells to chartering clubs.
When the landowner is sued for what the lil plane guys do on his land,
that is Primary insurance we gave the club landowner, aint it?

Look at Jerero club:
There is a landowner that is covered by the clubs ama Site Insurance
for stuff that happens on his land that is run by the club whether he is involved or not.
So when there is an incident that the club(members) cause a suit to be filed naming the landowner as well,
we the AMA shill ourselves as protecting the landowners with insurance from us.

But now when just the name of the landowner and location change,
we are supposed to throw our standard procedures for handling landowner $Liability out the window??

Consider:
When there is an incident/injury at (Jerero/IAC/SomeClubField)
the AMA Site Insurance will protect the landowner (MrCain/AMA/SomeClub)
if they are also named in the suit brought against the folks actually operating the site
Old 06-11-2011, 06:28 AM
  #65  
TexasAirBoss
My Feedback: (22)
 
TexasAirBoss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,972
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Lawsuit filed against AMA

KE,

The pilot was named in the suit.
Old 06-11-2011, 06:37 AM
  #66  
Silent-AV8R
 
Silent-AV8R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 5,312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Lawsuit filed against AMA


ORIGINAL: PilotFighter

Wouldn't the pilot's primary insurance and its lawyers step in ?

If the pilot has homeowner's and this is a covered liability under that policy, then yes. But if he either does not have HO or it does not cover him, then the AMA coverage becomes primary. AMA's own policy covers them as a named defendant. The AMA can also try to be excluded from the suit by making the case that they had nothing to do with the event and are in no way responsible. I have seen similar cases where at least one originally named defendant was able to get excluded prior to the trial proceeding.

Something to keep in mind here, in these cases the insurance company is paying the freight for the defense attorneys, no matter whose insurance is covering it. So even if you "win" and your insurance does not have to pay an award there are still very real costs incurred. And those costs can be considerable. They are also separate from the dollar coverage your insurance has. So say you get sued for $2,500,000 and lose and AMA is the applicable insurance. The AMA insurance will pay the $2.5 million and will also be out of pocket for the legal expenses. Those are not part of the actual coverage.
Old 06-11-2011, 07:18 AM
  #67  
804
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: sheridan, IN
Posts: 1,167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Lawsuit filed against AMA

FWIW,(not in reply to anyone), this is not the first time a spectator has been injured at Muncie.
A few years ago at the XFC, we witnessed a guy get hit in the eye by a piece of wrecked helicopter.

I attended the XFC again this year. IMO, AMA needs to think about keeping spectators farther away from the flightline.
An incident at our own field last Sunday makes me think clubs might need to think about the same thing.
Old 06-11-2011, 07:29 AM
  #68  
KidEpoxy
Senior Member
 
KidEpoxy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 6,681
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Lawsuit filed against AMA

804
A few years ago at the XFC, we witnessed a guy get hit in the eye by a piece of wrecked helicopter.
What happened then?
Did everyone cry out that our AMA insurance shouldnt pay for that guy's eye,
that he knew the risk of toy airplanes so we shouldnt pay him a dime?
Old 06-11-2011, 07:46 AM
  #69  
KidEpoxy
Senior Member
 
KidEpoxy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 6,681
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Lawsuit filed against AMA

PF
Both the landowner and the pilot were named in the suit.
Pilot has AMA Secondary(/chance of primary) member insurance
while the landowners AMA site insurance is primary type, right?

An Illinois woman and her husband have filed suit against the Academy of Model Aeronautics, alleging she was injured when a radio-controlled model airplane crashed into her left shoulder, knocking her to the ground.

The Delaware Circuit Court 4 lawsuit, filed Friday, also names the plane's operator, Elwynn N. Miller III of Fort Wayne, as a defendant.
Old 06-11-2011, 07:55 AM
  #70  
Silent-AV8R
 
Silent-AV8R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 5,312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Lawsuit filed against AMA


ORIGINAL: 804

FWIW,(not in reply to anyone), this is not the first time a spectator has been injured at Muncie.
A few years ago at the XFC, we witnessed a guy get hit in the eye by a piece of wrecked helicopter.

I attended the XFC again this year. IMO, AMA needs to think about keeping spectators farther away from the flightline.
An incident at our own field last Sunday makes me think clubs might need to think about the same thing.

XFC is not actually done by the AMA is it? In fact "the AMA" does not run any contests that I am aware of. Even the NATS for the most part are done by the various SIGs. IMAC does the Scale Aerobatics, LSF runs the Soaring NATS, NSRCA does the pattern NATS and so on. Perhaps the AMA can stipulate greater set back for spectators for events that people do at Muncie. Soaring is a little odd. It is not run like other RC events and I can easily see a situation where a spectator could be hit. She may have also been timing for her husband, in which case she was not technically a spectator. But the media may not have understood that nuance.
Old 06-11-2011, 08:12 AM
  #71  
Top_Gunn
My Feedback: (6)
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Granger, IN
Posts: 2,344
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts
Default RE: Lawsuit filed against AMA

ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy

804
A few years ago at the XFC, we witnessed a guy get hit in the eye by a piece of wrecked helicopter.
What happened then?
Did everyone cry out that our AMA insurance shouldnt pay for that guy's eye,
that he knew the risk of toy airplanes so we shouldnt pay him a dime?
KE seems not to understand that the AMA liability insurance, whether it is primary or secondary, is liability insurance. If you get sued for something for which you're not legally liable, your liabillity insurance doesn't cover the damage (although, if it is primary, it will normally pay your defense costs) No liability insurance policy (such as homeowner's or the liability insurance on your car) simply pays all claims made, even if the claimant really was injured. For that to happen, you need first party insurance (like fire insurance on your house, collision on your car, or medical insurance). So it's pointless to complain that the AMA isn't simply paying up: why should it? Who has ever even suggested that it ought to?
Old 06-11-2011, 09:03 AM
  #72  
TexasAirBoss
My Feedback: (22)
 
TexasAirBoss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,972
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Lawsuit filed against AMA


ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy

PF
Both the landowner and the pilot were named in the suit.
Pilot has AMA Secondary(/chance of primary) member insurance
while the landowners AMA site insurance is primary type, right?

Yes, that is my point exactly.
Wouldn't the pilot's insurance and its lawyers step in ?
I believe they would. S-Av8R has concurred.
Why do you disagree?
Old 06-11-2011, 09:16 AM
  #73  
FILE IFR
 
FILE IFR 's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Clinton, MA
Posts: 2,140
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Lawsuit filed against AMA

I wonder if the plaintiff's husband there on the right is a member of RCU.

If he is, I hope he's reading along with us... perhaps he could chime in.

I wonder how much money the now unhappy couple seeking from the AMA to compensate from the loss of the wife's "services" to Mr. Meek.


IMO, blame it on Spektrum.... case dismissed.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Xv63470.jpg
Views:	18
Size:	52.0 KB
ID:	1621777  
Old 06-11-2011, 09:50 AM
  #74  
Hossfly
Thread Starter
 
Hossfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Caney, TX
Posts: 6,130
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Lawsuit filed against AMA


ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy

PF-
Look at the landowners Site Insurance ama sells to chartering clubs.
When the landowner is sued for what the lil plane guys do on his land,
that is Primary insurance we gave the club landowner, aint it?
I believe it is so. If a landowner allows some activity on his/her property, then if an accident happens, that landowner is fair game for a legal battle. Usually the insurance company settles out of court if their legal staff so recommends.

Look at Jerero club:
There is a landowner that is covered by the clubs ama Site Insurance
for stuff that happens on his land that is run by the club whether he is involved or not.
//SNIP//
Consider:
When there is an incident/injury at (Jerero/IAC/SomeClubField)
the AMA Site Insurance will protect the landowner (MrCain/AMA/SomeClub)
if they are also named in the suit brought against the folks actually operating the site
Let's make a correction, KE. Mr. Cain has not owned the Jetero facility for some 11+/- years. I did hold the mortgage up until 4 years ago. Jetero now has another financier. I still own 40 acres and hold a mortgage on 10 acres on the East side of Jetero's facility, however I am not now connected in any way, except for being a life member, of Jetero RC Club, AMA Charter #1218.
I have no clue with any deed restrictions that the other mortgage holds. One of mine was that Jetero did assume the expense and thus maintain an AMA additional insured policy for my Trust Account that held/holds the property and all mortgages for my benefit.

My mortgage on Jetero's property was a full mortgage. Jetero owned the land. Just like most homeowners own their home but owe for it.

If there are any questions concerning this arrangement you can contact me directly.

Old 06-11-2011, 12:19 PM
  #75  
Oberst
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Lacona, NY
Posts: 1,840
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Lawsuit filed against AMA

Great, another lawsuit.


Pete

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.