Any companies that offer JUST insurance?
07-27-2011, 08:15 PM
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RE: Any companies that offer JUST insurance?
ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R
OK, I'll play. Of course I have heard of AMA members whose claims were not paid. But once again, I have not heard of a valid claim that was not paid.
Did you walk to work?
No, I brought my lunch.
ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf
Have you ever heard of any AMA member(s) that did not get his damages fully covered?
Have you ever heard of any AMA member(s) that did not get his damages fully covered?
OK, I'll play. Of course I have heard of AMA members whose claims were not paid. But once again, I have not heard of a valid claim that was not paid.
Did you walk to work?
No, I brought my lunch.
Come on, we all know insurance companies pay claims they deem valid... not sure why you are stating the obvious and neglecting to answer the direct question.
07-27-2011, 10:04 PM
#27
RE: Any companies that offer JUST insurance?
ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R
OK, I'll play. Of course I have heard of AMA members whose claims were not paid. But once again, I have not heard of a valid claim that was not paid.
Did you walk to work?
No, I brought my lunch.
ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf
Have you ever heard of any AMA member(s) that did not get his damages fully covered?
Have you ever heard of any AMA member(s) that did not get his damages fully covered?
OK, I'll play. Of course I have heard of AMA members whose claims were not paid. But once again, I have not heard of a valid claim that was not paid.
Did you walk to work?
No, I brought my lunch.
While I dont have any first hand info of anyone that AMA has refused to pay a claim for,im sure if we were to ask everyone that has filed a claim with the AMA
we may find some valid claims that were not paid.
07-28-2011, 05:40 AM
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RE: Any companies that offer JUST insurance?
found this in some AMA document
While certain claims for damages have been asserted as of December 31, 2008 and 2007, the
Academy's management is of the opinion that insurance coverage is adequate to fund any anticipated
losses. The likelihood of an unfavorable outcome from these claims is unknown. It is management's
intention to defend these claims vigorously. The amount of any anticipated losses is not readily
determinable.
Academy's management is of the opinion that insurance coverage is adequate to fund any anticipated
losses. The likelihood of an unfavorable outcome from these claims is unknown. It is management's
intention to defend these claims vigorously. The amount of any anticipated losses is not readily
determinable.
07-28-2011, 06:09 AM
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RE: Any companies that offer JUST insurance?
ORIGINAL: ira d
I think the $64,000 question is who definition of valid are you going by. Insurance co's deny claims all the time saying they are not valid while in fact they are.
While I dont have any first hand info of anyone that AMA has refused to pay a claim for, im sure if we were to ask everyone that has filed a claim with the AMA
we may find some valid claims that were not paid.
I think the $64,000 question is who definition of valid are you going by. Insurance co's deny claims all the time saying they are not valid while in fact they are.
While I dont have any first hand info of anyone that AMA has refused to pay a claim for, im sure if we were to ask everyone that has filed a claim with the AMA
we may find some valid claims that were not paid.
07-28-2011, 06:17 AM
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RE: Any companies that offer JUST insurance?
ORIGINAL: ira d
I think the $64,000 question is who definition of valid are you going by. Insurance co's deny claims all the time saying they are not valid while in fact they are.
While I dont have any first hand info of anyone that AMA has refused to pay a claim for, im sure if we were to ask everyone that has filed a claim with the AMA
we may find some valid claims that were not paid.
ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R
OK, I'll play. Of course I have heard of AMA members whose claims were not paid. But once again, I have not heard of a valid claim that was not paid.
Did you walk to work?
No, I brought my lunch.
ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf
Have you ever heard of any AMA member(s) that did not get his damages fully covered?
Have you ever heard of any AMA member(s) that did not get his damages fully covered?
OK, I'll play. Of course I have heard of AMA members whose claims were not paid. But once again, I have not heard of a valid claim that was not paid.
Did you walk to work?
No, I brought my lunch.
While I dont have any first hand info of anyone that AMA has refused to pay a claim for, im sure if we were to ask everyone that has filed a claim with the AMA
we may find some valid claims that were not paid.
The way ALL insurance works is that the company decides what is valid or not. I am certain you will find people who think they had a valid claim that was not paid, but them thinking it was valid and it actually being valid are not the same thing.
07-28-2011, 06:19 AM
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RE: Any companies that offer JUST insurance?
ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf
Good points for sure, ira. Funny how, according to many, AMA err... only AMA's insurance company is of any worth. Every word is carefully ''word smithed'' to side-step real world examples of comparison or just deflect the question altogether.
ORIGINAL: ira d
I think the $64,000 question is who definition of valid are you going by. Insurance co's deny claims all the time saying they are not valid while in fact they are.
While I dont have any first hand info of anyone that AMA has refused to pay a claim for, im sure if we were to ask everyone that has filed a claim with the AMA
we may find some valid claims that were not paid.
I think the $64,000 question is who definition of valid are you going by. Insurance co's deny claims all the time saying they are not valid while in fact they are.
While I dont have any first hand info of anyone that AMA has refused to pay a claim for, im sure if we were to ask everyone that has filed a claim with the AMA
we may find some valid claims that were not paid.
You mean like when I asked if anyone knows anybody who joined the USAMA and knew anything about their claims experience and your response was to ask me if I knew of denied AMA claims? You mean deflecting like that?
07-28-2011, 06:46 AM
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RE: Any companies that offer JUST insurance?
This is a non argument. The U.S. AMA website gives zero evidence that it is a legitimate insurance company or middle man. Just a little digging reveals that the owners are doing their best to hide from the public.
Like stated before, BIG RED FLAG.
Like stated before, BIG RED FLAG.
07-28-2011, 06:48 AM
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RE: Any companies that offer JUST insurance?
I respectfully answered your question directly...
Of course, I will not give names...that type of info is theirs and totally up to them.
I know, as well as most others here do, you are leaving out some real info that you have a first hand account of... not sure why.
But I can say emphatically, it is a fact that an AMA member can be and actually has been physically injured while flying at club flying site and AMA insurance fell short by a high margin in taking care of his injury costs.
Furthermore, it is a fact that an injured party may and actually has had the unfortunate position of having an AMA AVP paid to testify against him in a court of law to prevent compensation of his loses.
Those are facts.
Most people expect more of AMA's coverage...AMA coverage is cited often as a reason of exclusion...
07-28-2011, 06:49 AM
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RE: Any companies that offer JUST insurance?
ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy
Ira
uh, thats not true
Didnt we recently have Ilona say to use non-AMA insurance for the sales demo flights?
Didnt we just recentlyer see the solution for the LHS sales flight training was to us his non-ama insurance?
Dont we all know AMA dont actually have a mandate controlling who the clubs let fly there?
Of course they can use XYZ insurance to fly at clubs chartered by AMA,
what kind of XYZ company would say their XYZ insurance was good everywhere except AMA fields?
Now, if there are some local clubs that choose for themseves
to not let AMA-Uninsured sales demos fly,
or not let AMA-Uninsured flight training happen,
or not let AMA-Uninsured pay-per-day nonmebers fly
... well, thats that particular club prerogative- Its not a mandate by muncie to all clubs
Ira
Even if you find another form of insurance you wont be able to to use it to fly at any AMA chartered sites.
Didnt we recently have Ilona say to use non-AMA insurance for the sales demo flights?
Didnt we just recentlyer see the solution for the LHS sales flight training was to us his non-ama insurance?
Dont we all know AMA dont actually have a mandate controlling who the clubs let fly there?
Of course they can use XYZ insurance to fly at clubs chartered by AMA,
what kind of XYZ company would say their XYZ insurance was good everywhere except AMA fields?
Now, if there are some local clubs that choose for themseves
to not let AMA-Uninsured sales demos fly,
or not let AMA-Uninsured flight training happen,
or not let AMA-Uninsured pay-per-day nonmebers fly
... well, thats that particular club prerogative- Its not a mandate by muncie to all clubs
AMA insurance does cover commercial flight instructors. All it took to make that happen was for AMA to ask the insurer to include them as insureds in the liability policies. Can anyone explain why AMA chose to make an exception from insurance exclusions for a clearly commercial enterprise, but not an activity the insurance provider might deem to be commercial?
07-28-2011, 06:58 AM
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RE: Any companies that offer JUST insurance?
ORIGINAL: TimJ
This is a non argument. The U.S. AMA website gives zero evidence that it is a legitimate insurance company or middle man. Just a little digging reveals that the owners are doing their best to hide from the public.
Like stated before, BIG RED FLAG.
This is a non argument. The U.S. AMA website gives zero evidence that it is a legitimate insurance company or middle man. Just a little digging reveals that the owners are doing their best to hide from the public.
Like stated before, BIG RED FLAG.
07-28-2011, 07:04 AM
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RE: Any companies that offer JUST insurance?
Tim
oh, we gonna play the repeat game:
The U.S. AMA website gives zero evidence that it is a illegitimate insurance company or middle man.
easy peasy
You guys have been slandering that company for over a year
and have still not found ANY evidence to support your disparaging of that company.
We really should start calling you guys Cisco-2a and Cisco-2b etc
meanwhile,
those of us that have been saying there is no evidence that supports or condemns it,
well, we are still right as rain
Tim,
is it ok for non-AMA members to badmouth AMA without any supporting facts?
Cause it sure seems you are a non-member badmouthing USAmA.
Your entire premise is that it might not do as promised,
yet in over a year now you guys still cant find any evidence of that actually happening.
WHEN tim,
WHEN in the future will they actually do something wrong? 37 years after we are all dead?
The U.S. AMA website gives zero evidence that it is a legitimate insurance company or middle man.
The U.S. AMA website gives zero evidence that it is a illegitimate insurance company or middle man.
easy peasy
You guys have been slandering that company for over a year
and have still not found ANY evidence to support your disparaging of that company.
We really should start calling you guys Cisco-2a and Cisco-2b etc
meanwhile,
those of us that have been saying there is no evidence that supports or condemns it,
well, we are still right as rain
Tim,
is it ok for non-AMA members to badmouth AMA without any supporting facts?
Cause it sure seems you are a non-member badmouthing USAmA.
Your entire premise is that it might not do as promised,
yet in over a year now you guys still cant find any evidence of that actually happening.
WHEN tim,
WHEN in the future will they actually do something wrong? 37 years after we are all dead?
07-28-2011, 07:05 AM
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RE: Any companies that offer JUST insurance?
ORIGINAL: TimJ
This is a non argument. The U.S. AMA website gives zero evidence that it is a legitimate insurance company or middle man. Just a little digging reveals that the owners are doing their best to hide from the public.
Like stated before, BIG RED FLAG.
This is a non argument. The U.S. AMA website gives zero evidence that it is a legitimate insurance company or middle man. Just a little digging reveals that the owners are doing their best to hide from the public.
Like stated before, BIG RED FLAG.
07-28-2011, 07:24 AM
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RE: Any companies that offer JUST insurance?
ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf
I know, as well as most others here do, you are leaving out some real info that you have a first hand account of... not sure why.
I know, as well as most others here do, you are leaving out some real info that you have a first hand account of... not sure why.
For those who are in the dark here this is the case of Wasilow v Smith. Wasilow was struck by a plane flown by Smith at Sepulveda basin. AMA paid Wasilow's medical claims (~ $25K). Farmer's insurance, Smith's HO, fought the liability claim against Smith based on the fact that Wasilow was responsible for his injuries. After a 2-1/2 week long trial and 22 witnesses total (only 2 for the plaintiff) the jury decided unanimously that Wasilow was 100% liable for his injuries. LCS does not like this outcome and holds me personally responsible for denying the plaintiff his claim. Both parties were AMA members. He feels that he knows more about what happened than anyone actually involved and brings this up any time there is any discussion of AMA insurance.
07-28-2011, 07:40 AM
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RE: Any companies that offer JUST insurance?
ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy
Tim
oh, we gonna play the repeat game:
The U.S. AMA website gives zero evidence that it is a illegitimate insurance company or middle man.
easy peasy
You guys have been slandering that company for over a year
and have still not found ANY evidence to support your disparaging of that company.
We really should start calling you guys Cisco-2a and Cisco-2b etc
meanwhile,
those of us that have been saying there is no evidence that supports or condemns it,
well, we are still right as rain
Tim,
is it ok for non-AMA members to badmouth AMA without any supporting facts?
Cause it sure seems you are a non-member badmouthing USAmA.
Your entire premise is that it might not do as promised,
yet in over a year now you guys still cant find any evidence of that actually happening.
WHEN tim,
WHEN in the future will they actually do something wrong? 37 years after we are all dead?
Tim
The U.S. AMA website gives zero evidence that it is a legitimate insurance company or middle man.
The U.S. AMA website gives zero evidence that it is a illegitimate insurance company or middle man.
easy peasy
You guys have been slandering that company for over a year
and have still not found ANY evidence to support your disparaging of that company.
We really should start calling you guys Cisco-2a and Cisco-2b etc
meanwhile,
those of us that have been saying there is no evidence that supports or condemns it,
well, we are still right as rain
Tim,
is it ok for non-AMA members to badmouth AMA without any supporting facts?
Cause it sure seems you are a non-member badmouthing USAmA.
Your entire premise is that it might not do as promised,
yet in over a year now you guys still cant find any evidence of that actually happening.
WHEN tim,
WHEN in the future will they actually do something wrong? 37 years after we are all dead?
Is there anyone willing to step forward and proclaim their membership?
If anyone did join, what did they receive for their $20 membership and would they be willing to share it with us?
Regards
Frank
07-28-2011, 08:14 AM
#42
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RE: Any companies that offer JUST insurance?
meanwhile,
those of us that have been saying there is no evidence that supports or condemns it,
well, we are still right as rain
those of us that have been saying there is no evidence that supports or condemns it,
well, we are still right as rain
But I'm not going to send them the "fee" for ending me all that money, either.
As a rule, if you can't find any information about somebody, not sending them money is a good idea.
07-28-2011, 08:45 AM
#43
RE: Any companies that offer JUST insurance?
ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R
The way ALL insurance works is that the company decides what is valid or not. I am certain you will find people who think they had a valid claim that was not paid, but them thinking it was valid and it actually being valid are not the same thing.
ORIGINAL: ira d
I think the$64,000 question is who definition of valid are you going by. Insurance co's deny claims all the time saying they are not valid while in fact they are.
While I dont have any first hand info of anyone that AMA has refused to pay a claim for,im sure if we were to ask everyone that has filed a claim with the AMA
we may find some valid claims that were not paid.
ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R
OK, I'll play. Of course I have heard of AMA members whose claims were not paid. But once again, I have not heard of a valid claim that was not paid.
Did you walk to work?
No, I brought my lunch.
ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf
Have you ever heard of any AMA member(s) that did not get his damages fully covered?
Have you ever heard of any AMA member(s) that did not get his damages fully covered?
OK, I'll play. Of course I have heard of AMA members whose claims were not paid. But once again, I have not heard of a valid claim that was not paid.
Did you walk to work?
No, I brought my lunch.
While I dont have any first hand info of anyone that AMA has refused to pay a claim for,im sure if we were to ask everyone that has filed a claim with the AMA
we may find some valid claims that were not paid.
The way ALL insurance works is that the company decides what is valid or not. I am certain you will find people who think they had a valid claim that was not paid, but them thinking it was valid and it actually being valid are not the same thing.
Yes it's true sometime what one thinks and what the facts are can be two different things, However just because the insurance company says a claim
is invalid dont mean it's so. Just think how many times has a insurancecoend up paying a claim they said was invalid after being taken to court.
07-28-2011, 10:51 AM
#44
RE: Any companies that offer JUST insurance?
ORIGINAL: K-Bob
Hmmm. Read the post ver batim. See AMA mentioned by name anywhere? Why is this post in this forum anyway? Why have rules and guidelines if they are not followed?
ORIGINAL: Bozarth
Does anyone know if there is a company that provides model aircraft liability insurance only - no magazines, no Nats, no national flying sites, no grants, no scholarships, no goodwill ambassador programs, just insurance?
Kurt
Does anyone know if there is a company that provides model aircraft liability insurance only - no magazines, no Nats, no national flying sites, no grants, no scholarships, no goodwill ambassador programs, just insurance?
Kurt
Let me make K-Bob happy and change my original question to read "Does anyone know if there is a company other than the AMA that provides..." I also failed to type the word "pylon" in my last rc pylon post!
Great example how someone can let the minutia get in the way of a good conversation!
Kurt
07-28-2011, 12:17 PM
#45
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RE: Any companies that offer JUST insurance?
ORIGINAL: ira d
Yes it's true sometime what one thinks and what the facts are can be two different things, However just because the insurance company says a claim
is invalid dont mean it's so. Just think how many times has a insurance co end up paying a claim they said was invalid after being taken to court.
ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R
The way ALL insurance works is that the company decides what is valid or not. I am certain you will find people who think they had a valid claim that was not paid, but them thinking it was valid and it actually being valid are not the same thing.
The way ALL insurance works is that the company decides what is valid or not. I am certain you will find people who think they had a valid claim that was not paid, but them thinking it was valid and it actually being valid are not the same thing.
Yes it's true sometime what one thinks and what the facts are can be two different things, However just because the insurance company says a claim
is invalid dont mean it's so. Just think how many times has a insurance co end up paying a claim they said was invalid after being taken to court.
You are spot on. Civil courts decide liability cases, not insurance companies. The times insurance companies pay without the court's involvement is when, based on the cost of defending their insured and the probability of doing so successfully, they decide it will cost them less to settle with the claimant than fight it. That happens frequently, perhaps in most cases - possibly why many folks have an expectation that merit of the claim is an insurance adjuster's call. Al Gunn posted just short scroll up - I'd like see somebody with his professional experience do a brief tutorial and possibly put some misconceptions aside.
07-28-2011, 02:05 PM
#46
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RE: Any companies that offer JUST insurance?
ORIGINAL: Top_Gunn
I have absolutely no evidence to support my belief that the people who send me emails evrey few days saying I've won a million euros in some lottery are lying.
But I'm not going to send them the "fee" for ending me all that money, either.
As a rule, if you can't find any information about somebody, not sending them money is a good idea.
meanwhile,
those of us that have been saying there is no evidence that supports or condemns it,
well, we are still right as rain
those of us that have been saying there is no evidence that supports or condemns it,
well, we are still right as rain
But I'm not going to send them the "fee" for ending me all that money, either.
As a rule, if you can't find any information about somebody, not sending them money is a good idea.
The only other thing I can think of is to get a rider attached to your homeowners insurance. But I'm sure we've all heard the stories were some insurance companies wouldn't pay for hurricane damage because it was determined by the companies own claims adjuster to be a flood...so be sure your hobby rider is very specific!!!
The earlier mentioned alternative would not be an option for a lot of folks, 12 pound weight limit? And I will agree the lack of information on the other company mentioned is disturbing....would not send them any of my $1000 Walmart gift cards!
07-28-2011, 03:28 PM
#47
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RE: Any companies that offer JUST insurance?
I have absolutely no evidence to support my belief that the people who send me emails evrey few days saying I've won a million euros in some lottery are lying.
lots of folks have complained about the Kenya Lotto scams, I've seen a tv magazine interviewing the losers and walking around in kenya looking for the takers.
SO
it seems that is a pretty poor analagy to a company that we havent heard of anyone getting scamed,
given that you guys have had a year to find any cases of your claims to have actually happened.
Here is s simple test:
"I dont have any data to support it, but (AMA/USAmA) is a ripoff scam."
Now, why would it be ok to say that about one company but not ok to say that about the other?
Do you support nonmembers slandering AMA without any proof?
Why would folks support (or take part in) slandering another company without proof?
07-28-2011, 04:11 PM
#48
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RE: Any companies that offer JUST insurance?
Why would folks support (or take part in) slandering another company without proof?
07-28-2011, 04:19 PM
#49
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RE: Any companies that offer JUST insurance?
ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy
Here is s simple test:
''[font=''Times New Roman'']I dont have any data to support it, but (AMA/USAmA) is a ripoff scam[/font].''
Now, why would it be ok to say that about one company but not ok to say that about the other?
Do you support nonmembers slandering AMA without any proof?
Why would folks support (or take part in) slandering another company without proof?
Here is s simple test:
''[font=''Times New Roman'']I dont have any data to support it, but (AMA/USAmA) is a ripoff scam[/font].''
Now, why would it be ok to say that about one company but not ok to say that about the other?
Do you support nonmembers slandering AMA without any proof?
Why would folks support (or take part in) slandering another company without proof?
BTW - slander is an oral statement, libel is when it is written.
Here's a handy reference. http://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=1153
07-28-2011, 04:56 PM
#50
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RE: Any companies that offer JUST insurance?
seems to me if there is insurance for when an AMA member piloted plane hits a lady,
and she dont get paid by the insurance,
folks could consider that a ripoff
so, not libel if those folks say it, right?
but in the case of folks wanting to just accuse Kaerny of murder cause they have seen no proof of his innocence... when there is no body or evidence that a murder even happened... well, seems libelous to me. Heck, Muroc went so far as to say it was proven (ever see him post a recant or retraction??)
oh, my mistake, you guys are accusing Kearny of fraud, not murder
since a guy would be innocent until proven guilty if it was murder, but guilty til proven innocent for scams??
uh, or is it still some kind of libel of Pre-Fraud
... you are accusing him of fraud in the future cause you cant prove it now?
hmmm, so folks could say AMA is a scam because AMA will scam someone somewhere at some future point and you cant PROVE they wont
seems kinda silly to accuse a company of a misdeed in the future
... oh, sorry, thats what you guys are doing, my bad
and she dont get paid by the insurance,
folks could consider that a ripoff
so, not libel if those folks say it, right?
but in the case of folks wanting to just accuse Kaerny of murder cause they have seen no proof of his innocence... when there is no body or evidence that a murder even happened... well, seems libelous to me. Heck, Muroc went so far as to say it was proven (ever see him post a recant or retraction??)
oh, my mistake, you guys are accusing Kearny of fraud, not murder
since a guy would be innocent until proven guilty if it was murder, but guilty til proven innocent for scams??
uh, or is it still some kind of libel of Pre-Fraud
... you are accusing him of fraud in the future cause you cant prove it now?
hmmm, so folks could say AMA is a scam because AMA will scam someone somewhere at some future point and you cant PROVE they wont
seems kinda silly to accuse a company of a misdeed in the future
... oh, sorry, thats what you guys are doing, my bad