allamericanflyer

My Feedback: (9)

Well said!

MA covers all areas of interest within the hobby. I like the fact they do that, gives me a better awareness of what is going on in the other areas.

acerc

Well I havescratch built,kit planes, arf planes, flat foamies, park fliers. Gas, electric and nitro. I love to fly, I love to build, don't mind assembly. If we don't accept them all we won't keep our hobby. Don't matter why someone buy's what they buy or build what they build. More than likely without all aspects of R/C Airplanes we could not keep our membership at our fields sufficient to cover the expenses. Then no one would be

Stickbuilder

Hell, it's what people are buying nowadays. It's what sells, and MA does sell advertising space to its base. What did you expect? Do you actually think that what you like matters to those in Muncie? If you do, then why does the President of the AMA have to come from the Executive Committee? Chew on that one for a spell. Why is it that one classification of member have a stronger vote in Muncie than another? Can you say Leader Member? Can you say PPP member. One group has a mega vote, while the other has no vote. Your vote means diddly squat. I'll promise you that Muncie knows exactly which Good Ol Boy will be the next President.

Bill, AMA 4720

smithcreek

My Feedback: (25)

Whether is was intended to fan flames or not I don't see this thread as a problem. As people have pointed out, there are two sides of this hobby, modeling and flying r/c planes. In order to obtain insurance required by many clubs we are forced to pay for a magazine that is so lopsided in it's presentation of the two sides it's easy to see why builders get ticked off. The percentage of the magazine dedicated to ARFs may represent the actual percentage of people flying them, it may represent the advertiser base in the magazine, but the fact that you have no option whether to pay for it or not is the issue to me.

It will be interesting to see if the people that say ARFs are here to stay are right in a few years. At some point the chinese are simply going to decide that paying peasant girls pennies an hour to produce toys for Americans who just print more money when they want more toys is over, then we'll find out what these big fancy ARFs really cost to build and sell.

As far as ARFs growing the hobby I'd like to see the numbers on that one. The numbers I see are AMA on a serious decline over the past few years. I'm not sold on the idea that making r/c or any other pursuit so easy that it takes very little real investment other than money is the way to growth.

raptureboy

Man I'm still mad that they make bread in a factory and that the ice man doesn't deliver ice for my ice box any more[&:] Really why does this bother so many people? Do what you like to do and quit bashing the AMA and all the Chinese and Arf companies, if there was money to be made selling kits do you think that the big companies Like TF, SIG, Midwest etc.would still be making kits in large quantities? How small would the industry be and the hobby as a whole if Arf's did not exist? Times they are a changin, me I build some I assemble some and I crash them all the same.[>:] Hey builders, how about introducing a scout troop or school group to the art of building and flying an rc plane? Time better spent than here spewing the same old rant on arf's.

ARUP

No 'flame' intended although I see how it happens. I'd rather take heat from mindless cretins who seem to think this is a personal attack than see the hobby evolve as it is. I just can't see how sticking another arf on the cover will help our plight! There is plenty of room inside the magazine for them and I said nothing about that. The hobby is definitely edging toward the 'fringe' realm with gov't eyeing regs and rules. Look at sailplanes. I love 'em! Kits are almost non-existent, just arfs. I've bought the scale arfs, built kits and scratched my own. FF is the most 'pure' form of our hobby and it hardly gets coverage. They don't cost as much in $$$, either. Evidently, it's all about the money for this non-profit organization. AGAIN- What's wrong with putting kids on the cover of a magazine proudly displaying what they built with their own hands?

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

They mentioned heli's on the front cover?? Sweet!

GerKonig

Absolutely right! This winter I will be a "builder" as the next 3 models next in line to work on are Balsa USA and Sig. But I also have a Hawk Biplane from Great Planes and the 1/4 scale RV (and some small stuff also arf). So I resent the dimwits that take it on themselves to go always back to the same argument: what I do is better than you do... I guess there are a lot of insecure, intolerant, nosy, snotty people in the hobby. Me? I think carving a propeller is stupid, and I have better things to do with my time, but if you have fun doing it, it is great (for you) enjoy! Fun is the name of the game! Why would I start a thread looking down on people that carve their props or the other way around? Live and let live, and stop attempting to impose on others something you like, or works for you.

Pete is right, a lot of people that go into this silly arguments could better apply their experience and knowledge starting a "how to" thread instead of this stupid built versus arf things. And if down the road I build another ARF w/o changing a thing, it's nobody's business (not likely to happen, I modify every kit I build, every ARF I assemble, but that is another story).

And for those that are clueless: this is the USA, we are the champions of the market economy. If there is less coverage for FF, and for UC, and for rubber power in the magazine, it is for some reason. I am not telling you what it is, but here is a clue. You will find your answer reading the first sentence of this paragraph... By the same token, if there is more coverage for ARFs, it is for the same reason. Many more ARF are "built" (and obviously sold) than kits. More people are interested in them than in built kits. You can ignore the facts as you wish, but do not expect the rest of us to ignore them too.

So, if your activity (whatever it might be) all the sudden becomes the rage, everybody is doing what you do, you will notice immediately that you will have more and more coverage as it becomes more and more popular. A fact of life in a market economy. Happens every day... There is nothing you can do about it.

My 3 cents (was 2, I adjusted for inflation)

Gerry
PS: This is a fun hobby, if you are not having fun, you are not doing it right;-)

Jim Thomerson

How come a private capitalistic corporation can make money selling a magazine I like, and the AMA, with a captive audience, produces what I call an inferior magazine? Is it because they don't have to compete and produce a product which will sell on its own merits,? Would MA be a better magazine if it were a membership option and had to compete in the open market for success?

rcfighterjock

Guys, I need some help here. I'm not going to address the "AMA" thing as I like to go to fly-ins and many require it, right or wrong. I need help with a little personal identity crisis. I started modeling back in 1972 with a Cox PT-19 C/L trainer. Technically an "ARF". I enjoyed that so much I then continued into the '80's with some award winning Guillow's warbirds. Very definitely "kits". Then I graduated to R/C with a PT-40 trainer kit, followed by many Top-Flite warbird kits, again some award winners. Fast forward to the present day. I have MANY CMP and ESM ARF's. When I build these "ARF'S", I strip all the finish off the entire plane, fix and reinforce what is lacking, fiberglass the wings/stab, fabric cover the open flying surfaces and re-paint the entire plane after adding scale details and options. Now the kicker: I recently have begun to convert all my old and new aircraft from glow to electric power. Can anyone help me with the burning question "Who EXACTLY am I, a kit builder or an arf builder or what and when I go to a fly-in, does a completely re-fabricated CMP/ESM warbird compete in the "KIT" or "ARF" category"? All I know for sure, it's been a BLAST!!

lopflyers

My Feedback: (12)

What is wrong with people like me? I am all thumbs and cannot build, hey for crying outloud I have problems repairing my planes after a mishap
But I love flying them, I spent a lot of time at the field and here at RCU.
I buy ARFs and pay someone at the club to put it together for me, or I buy (almost new) planes here in the buy sell section.
I cannot tell you by looking at a picture if that particular plane is an ARF or comes from a kit.
I get the feelling that I am not alone. If this hobby was for people that can build their own planes I will not be here.

GerKonig

You do not like it, that is perfectly fine. I love to fish, but avoid eating fish, do not like veggies, never eat broccoli, asparagus, or touch lettuce. Other peole like the food I do not like, nothing wrong with that.

I read the AMA mag and like the majority of the AMA membership have no problems with it. AMA will never give up the magazine nor will the AOPA or the EAA. The reason is simple, it is a tool used (among other things) to inform and educate members. This is as true for the AMA, as for the AOPA and the EAA. So, looking at my Cristal Ball (just came back from service) I can assure you: It aint' goin' to happen Jim:-)

As you know there are magazines that compete with the AOPA and the EAA and the AMA magazines, but they will never make any of the "official institution mag." disappear or compete and "sell on its own merits".

Gerry

GerKonig

See, different opinions. I have attended yearly the Wram show, and every year among other freebies I get Flying Models mini magazine (slimmer every year), which is for me the worst useless magazine available currently. Why? Because of all the magazines I saw (and I see one yearly) I never found something of interest nor do they show something I would build (Giant scale, RC, big electrics).

So, it is glanced at and trashed year after year. Kind of stupid on my part, but I cannot help myself, I always think maybe this issue has something I want to read,or pictures I want to look at. I promise not to pick it up anymore.

You are the first person I hear that actually pays for it. I can understand why you like it because you are a silk and dope builder, and I am guessing you do not fly RC nor Giant Scale. This goes to prove once more that what they say about different folks and different strokes is true after all... Obviously FM has it's niche market, and they have enough advertising to survive. Nothing wrong with FF, and dopers and silkers, but it is a dying breed, I can perfectly understand your total lack of interest in Model Aviation, or Model Airplane News or the defunct RCM...

MA is getting better all the time:-)

Gerry

phlpsfrnk

No problem, I think you would be identifed as the guy having the most fun he can out of the hobby/sport. As for the catagory your models belong in, maybe a new catagory is in order. Something like Bashed Almost Ready to Fly (BARF's). (Pun intended)

Regards
Frank

rcfighterjock

OUTSTANDING!! I owe you a debt of thanks for helping me with my identity crisis and I'll see what I can do to make BARF an official category for fly-ins everywhere. Keep 'em flying! Dave

hsukaria

Dave, I haven't kit built in years (1979?). But as my ARF's wear, crash, or display a need for improvement, I modify them. I use a good level of creativity that neither ARF's nor even kits would allow for. So, it's BARF's for me!

gsoav8r

My Feedback: (6)

"Another arf front cover"

Yep. Easier to shoot a low hanging stationary target.

zacharyR

My Feedback: (5)

isn't the ARF your talking about a gaint scale airpalne in the XFC ?

AMA is covering a event arnt they ?


I for one like seeing a mixture of things and one of them i dont want to see is some boring sig mid star 40 that you spent 8 year's makeing and never fly .....


SO in other words 40% plane smoke on doing some crazy 3D >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sig four star 40 cover in dope from 1972 ....




I think you'd still wold complain if it was a carden on the cover ...

joebahl

My Feedback: (2)

Just tear the front cover off and then read the mag. My cat barfed on my airplane mag last week and i tore off the cover and threw it out along with the cat . Iam a builder but i own a couple ARF,s ( i won them in raffles ) And i dont mind guys who put together arf,s and fly them , its when i come here that some of the builder bashers gets my fur up . There is enough flying field for all of us . joe

Tampaflyer

My Feedback: (42)

i love builders, they spend all that time creating a well built aircraft that is usually one of a kind.

that i will then buy at a swap meet for less than any ARF.

joebahl

My Feedback: (2)

Most builders dont sell their one of a kind planes but when they do its cheaper to buy from china. joe

Tampaflyer

My Feedback: (42)

really, full cockpit, rivets, scaled by someone that knew these planes personally...
converted to electric.. 2days to convert. cowl gun covers come off for the battery

Stickbuilder

For my Birthday this Summer, I received an ARF airplane, and it is electric powered to boot. It is a piece of cheaply built crap. I stand by my long term opinion that either you build or you wish you could, or did.

Bill, AMA 4720

Silent-AV8R

I have certainly seen many ARFs that are a POS. I have also seen more than a few that were very nicely done. The giant scale aerobatic planes from Aeroworks, COMP-ARF and a few others come to mind. All the pattern plane ARFs are almost works of art. But a $19 NitroPlanes ARF, well, that is an all together different thing. When talking of ARFs people need to keep in mind that they are not all created equally.

TestPilot-101

My Feedback: (4)

Since the early 70's ARFs have been gaining ground. As a model builder (of 47 years) I say, "so what" if they take a photo of an ARF for the cover.
I only glance through the MA mag, then it goes into the trash. A while back there was an article asking why people don't build anymore that caught my attention. I responded to the AMA about it and the VP responded to my email along with contacting the MA editor. After the double talk it came to basically, dollars and cents and not about who's interested.  More like who was willing to pay for the ad space and articles that push the products featured in the ads. I personally would like the option to opt out of the MA magazine and save a bit on my AMA dues.

I prefer RCME out of Britian. They have construction articles and on occasion, full size plans, (like a .60 size Hawker Typhoon for instance). 
 
(Side Note)

If your a builder like me, your becoming a rare breed, an "Artisan" of the R/C modeling world, also the "go to guys" when an ARF'er needs an airframe repaired correctly, I for one make good money on ARF repairs. Pays for my kits.
Besides we truly build models for our own enjoyment and nobody else.

Yes we've heard it all,  No Time, No room, No clue, but that's ok. As others have said, "there's plenty of room at the field".