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  1. #51

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    RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.


    ORIGINAL: H5487

    ORIGINAL: BobbyMcGee
    We fly R/C toys ... they are not UAV's
    Bobby,

    Wake up, dude. While the rest of us agree with you in that our models are mostly "toys" for recreational use, the ugly truth is that the FAA HAS defined our models as UAVs (specifically as sUAVs) and is including our "toys" in the upcoming NPRM.

    The subject at hand here is that this is not the time for any of us to be thumbing our noses at the FAA!

    Harvey
    Technically our airplanes are UAVs and they are small, sUAVs, but unless those flying superheros were equipped with functioning bomb vests I am not too concerned.
    As far as the NPRM goes, the "P" is for proposed rule making. I am confident that our elected AMA guys will stay on top of the situation concerning that.
    Since we now fight wars with unmanned air vehicles some rules here at home may be waranted, however, we have fought wars with guns since the beginning of this country and we see how rules have effected those items, not nearly enough in my opinion.

    Bottom line, stop throwing rocks at the moon guys.

    The Pamster
    AMA 202345
    The Pamster
    AMA 202345
    Balsa USA Brotherhood Member #55

  2. #52
    H5487's Avatar
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    RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

    ORIGINAL: Vettdriver

    I was approached by the A&E network about getting some aerial footage for their hog hunting show that is filmed here in Texas.

    Although it never came to pass I was not going to be compensated, financially or otherwise, for my participation.
    The best I was hoping for was some mention in the credits.

    So, since I wasn't going to be paid...... Was it commercial ?
    Probably, since the video that was to be shot would be used in the furtherence of a commercial venture (A&E's making the documentary). The FAA has said on numerous occasions that "compensation" is not limited to being paid with money. Compensation is also defined as being reimbursed for your gas, getting fed, or even receiving sex. (Darn!) The FAA has also said that a pilot who's flying someone for no compensation but for the purpose of logging the time (i.e. time building) is still receiving compensation. Therefore, the noteriety of having your name included in the credits would probably be seen by the FAA as having been illegally compensated for your flying. Sorry.

    ORIGINAL: Vettdriver

    If these pilots volunteered their services would it then cease to be a commercial activity?
    No, because they were fully aware that the video of their flights was going to be used in the furtherence of a commercial venture (the promotion of 20th Century Fox's movie).

    Harvey
    Weather Geek

  3. #53

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    RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.


    ORIGINAL: H5487

    ORIGINAL: BobbyMcGee
    We fly R/C toys ... they are not UAV's
    Bobby,

    Wake up, dude. While the rest of us agree with you in that our models are mostly "toys" for recreational use, the ugly truth is that the FAA HAS defined our models as UAVs (specifically as sUAVs) and is including our "toys" in the upcoming NPRM.

    The subject at hand here is that this is not the time for any of us to be thumbing our noses at the FAA!

    Harvey
    Harvey,

    They can define our models as 'chicken soup,' but that does not mean they would or could treat modelers or models any differently than they do now. If they did, you can rest assured there would be a whole lot of thumbing noses at the FAA.

    "Good men must not obey the laws too well" - Ralph Waldo Emerson


  4. #54
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    RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

    Man this is where all the NUTZ went ... Don't take the color personal ... PLZ

    Remember ... Every one of these Things we fly Comes with a Number, When the R/C Gods call that Number, it's going in a Garbage Bag, No Sniveling Allowed.
    P-47 Thunderbolt Brotherhood #24 & #43

  5. #55
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    RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.


    ORIGINAL: cj_rumley


    ORIGINAL: H5487

    ORIGINAL: BobbyMcGee
    We fly R/C toys ... they are not UAV's
    Bobby,

    Wake up, dude. While the rest of us agree with you in that our models are mostly "toys" for recreational use, the ugly truth is that the FAA HAS defined our models as UAVs (specifically as sUAVs) and is including our "toys" in the upcoming NPRM.

    The subject at hand here is that this is not the time for any of us to be thumbing our noses at the FAA!

    Harvey
    Harvey,

    They can define our models as 'chicken soup,' but that does not mean they would or could treat modelers or models any differently than they do now. If they did, you can rest assured there would be a whole lot of thumbing noses at the FAA.

    "Good men must not obey the laws too well" - Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Hope the FAA arn't reading all these posts ... They do tend to take exception to certian things and comments ... Ask Bob Hoover
    Remember ... Every one of these Things we fly Comes with a Number, When the R/C Gods call that Number, it's going in a Garbage Bag, No Sniveling Allowed.
    P-47 Thunderbolt Brotherhood #24 & #43

  6. #56
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    RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.


    ORIGINAL: thepamster
    Since we now fight wars with unmanned air vehicles* some rules here at home may be waranted...
    The Pamster
    AMA 202345
    Our use of armed UAVs in Iraq and Afghanistan doesn't have anything to do with the upcoming NPRM. It's more like FAA's desire to address the rapidly mushrooming arena of commercial and government UAVs before they get out of hand.

    Harvey
    Weather Geek

  7. #57

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    RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.


    ORIGINAL: H5487

    So, then, are you guys saying that it is okay with you that three fellow modelers (AMA members at that) broke the law in a very public way during a time when the FAA has small UAVs (including our model airplanes) under the microscope?

    Are you saying that their thumbing their noses at the FAA is nothing for the rest of us to be upset about?

    How can you not care?

    Harvey

    The proposed laws are not in effect yet so what law did they break by flying some models to be photographed? About the only thing we could say is their AMA
    insurance may not have been in force during the filming.
    Ira d

  8. #58
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    RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.


    ORIGINAL: ira d


    ORIGINAL: H5487

    So, then, are you guys saying that it is okay with you that three fellow modelers (AMA members at that) broke the law in a very public way during a time when the FAA has small UAVs (including our model airplanes) under the microscope?

    Are you saying that their thumbing their noses at the FAA is nothing for the rest of us to be upset about?

    How can you not care?

    Harvey

    The proposed laws are not in effect yet so what law did they break by flying some models to be photographed? About the only thing we could say is their AMA
    insurance may not have been in force during the filming.

    The FAA has imposed a moratorium on all sUAS flying except under the three different specific authorities I have cited several times in this thread. If they were not operating in accordance with one of those then they were not legally operating. Why is that seemingly so difficult to understand?
    Team Futaba - RClipos.com

  9. #59

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    RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.


    ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R


    ORIGINAL: ira d


    ORIGINAL: H5487

    So, then, are you guys saying that it is okay with you that three fellow modelers (AMA members at that) broke the law in a very public way during a time when the FAA has small UAVs (including our model airplanes) under the microscope?

    Are you saying that their thumbing their noses at the FAA is nothing for the rest of us to be upset about?

    How can you not care?

    Harvey

    The proposed laws are not in effect yet so what law did they break by flying some models to be photographed? About the only thing we could say is their AMA
    insurance may not have been in force during the filming.

    The FAA has imposed a moratorium on all sUAS flying except under the three different specific authorities I have cited several times in this thread. If they were not operating in accordance with one of those then they were not legally operating. Why is that seemingly so difficult to understand?

    We dont know what authority they may or may not havebeen operating under, But IMO untill the FAA publishes some specific rules that state exactly what a
    modelercan or can't do I dont think they have broken any laws.
    Ira d

  10. #60

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    RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

    The FAA has imposed a moratorium on ALL sUAS flying except under the three different specific authorities.

    What part of ALL don't you understand? Don't give me any of that Clintonesque ;"it depends on the definition of ..."

  11. #61

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    RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.


    ORIGINAL: H5487

    So, then, are you guys saying that it is okay with you that three fellow modelers (AMA members at that) broke the law in a very public way during a time when the FAA has small UAVs (including our model airplanes) under the microscope?

    Are you saying that their thumbing their noses at the FAA is nothing for the rest of us to be upset about?

    How can you not care?

    Harvey
    Broke the law!!!???? Snubbing the FAA???? You have got to be kidding! They were flying their toys.You guys crack me up with your invented "authority". Speaking of, under what authority do you guys operate to be making such claims and innuendo/gossip? Some peopl know just enough to be dangerous. Stop being an alarmist.

    Next thing, you're going to say kite flying is illegal...

    The funniest thing is that when all is said and done, the FAA is going to be laughing at the R/C hobby people who think they were 'under the gun' for the regulations the FAAmay impose on UAV's. What a stretch for anyone to think our toys are UAV's.

    You are making way too much of this. Calm down, take a valium, and come back in a few days.

    I will be getting my superhero soon, and I'll fly mine around the skies of NYC to give the people of NYC a feeling of being protected by Superman.
    Sincerity ... Once you are able to fake that, there will be no stopping you.


  12. #62

    RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

    ORIGINAL: HoundDog
    Hope the FAA arn't reading all these posts ... They do tend to take exception to certian things and comments ... Ask Bob Hoover

    Vee must stop zee anti-authority speech of zee dissenters, ya ?

  13. #63
    Silent-AV8R's Avatar
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    RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.


    ORIGINAL: ira d

    We dont know what authority they may or may not have*been operating under, But IMO untill the FAA publishes some specific rules that state exactly what* a
    modeler*can or can't do I dont think they have broken any laws.
    Well we can certainly deduce what authority they were using.

    Are they a public agency like a police force, etc.? No, they are not, therefore they cannot obtain a COA, so we know they were not operating under a COA.

    Were they hobbyists flying for sport or recreation? No, they were not. We know this because they were doing this as part of the advertising for a movie.

    So that leaves operation as a civil aircraft, for which they are required to obtain a Special Airworthiness Certificate, which I strongly doubt they have for the RC Superhero. Unless they did posses one of these then they were operating outside FAA policy. Since the FAA is currently not granting these, then we can be secure in our assumption that they did not have one.

    And the FAA HAS published several clear statements of current sUAS operations policy. You can find them here:

    http://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/uas/

    Specifically look at these:

    http://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives...notice_uas.pdf

    http://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives...dance08-01.pdf

    Lastly, we must never confuse our ignorance of the policy or unwillingness to follow them as being the same thing as being in compliance.
    Team Futaba - RClipos.com

  14. #64
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    RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

    ORIGINAL: BobbyMcGee

    Broke the law!!!????* Snubbing the FAA????* You have got to be kidding!* They were flying their toys.*You guys crack me up with your invented ''authority''.
    Please review the sources I cited above from the FAA. These are not "invented". Again, your inability to accept reality or simply choosing to ignore it, is not the same thing as being right.
    Team Futaba - RClipos.com

  15. #65

    RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

    Look, if it makes any of the other wash women here feel better, the “superhero pilots” were just asked to show up, dressed in black for some photos. While there, they decided to go ahead and fly a little... That’s what I heard while hanging my cloths up to dry and I am sticking to it...

    Now, let’s talk about something that really matters... http://soaps.sheknows.com/generalhos...Maker_Instead/


    Silent, what did you think when Matt caught Elizabeth looking through Jason's file at the hospital?
    It is very important to understand that Jesus not only died for our sins but died because of our sins...even harder to understand now, exactly what were those sins???

  16. #66
    Silent-AV8R's Avatar
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    RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

    I forgot one more reference:

    http://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives...FACT_Sheet.pdf

    This is a short summary for those who do not want to take the time to actually read the other, longer, documents.
    Team Futaba - RClipos.com

  17. #67

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    RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

    Oh please!!!    This is Stupid!  Who Cares!    
    SOMEONE STOP THIS!!!!!!!
     PLEASE! THIS IS KILLIN ME!

  18. #68
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    RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

    No one is required to be here, Attendence is not Required ...
    Remember ... Every one of these Things we fly Comes with a Number, When the R/C Gods call that Number, it's going in a Garbage Bag, No Sniveling Allowed.
    P-47 Thunderbolt Brotherhood #24 & #43

  19. #69
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    RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

    Continued Disregard of bad R/C Flying Practices can only make it more likely that the FAA will place limits on our Hobby/Sport to the degree it becomes to expensive or too restrictive to participate any longer. So Just keep promoting This type of behavior and when the ***** Hits the Fan we'll have no one to blame but our selves.



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    Remember ... Every one of these Things we fly Comes with a Number, When the R/C Gods call that Number, it's going in a Garbage Bag, No Sniveling Allowed.
    P-47 Thunderbolt Brotherhood #24 & #43

  20. #70
    H5487's Avatar
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    RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

    ORIGINAL: ES CONTROL

    Oh please!!! * *This is Stupid! *Who Cares! * *
    SOMEONE STOP THIS!!!!!!!
    *PLEASE! THIS IS KILLIN ME!
    Look dude, complaining about this thread is like hitting yourself with a hammer. You have full authority to stop your own misery BY NOT READING THE POSTS!

    Jeeez, nobody's making you read this stuff!

    Harvey
    Weather Geek

  21. #71
    H5487's Avatar
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    RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

    Silent,
    Six,

    Give it up. These guys are just playing with us. NOBODY can be THAT ignorant of the situation that they can continue to blindly argue against the facts that have been presented to them. Let them stick their hands over their ears while chanting "La La La, I can't hear you". When storm clouds roll in, all some people seem to see are clouds shaped like kittens and ponies.

    Harvey
    Weather Geek

  22. #72

    RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

    Hmmm... how to end this debacle??? I’ll try.

    Yes, there are laws for just about every single thing we do today.[:@]

    In this case, the consensus is the law no greater than the enforcement. FAA contends with much greater issues daily... and most of those slip right on by as well.

    Now, we can post on these forums trying to give this type of thing as much negative exposure as possible, that will ultimately cause some action by FAA, that undoubtedly will only continue the retardation model aviation...or we can just shut or say that’s pretty cool... and go on...

    Look the bottom line...the restrictions we have so far stem from a bunch of whining...so keep it up and you’ll have more to whine about...self fulfilling proposition...
    It is very important to understand that Jesus not only died for our sins but died because of our sins...even harder to understand now, exactly what were those sins???

  23. #73
    H5487's Avatar
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    RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

    ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf

    Hmmm... how to end this debacle??? I’ll try.

    Yes, there are laws for just about every single thing we do today.[:@]

    In this case, the consensus is the law no greater than the enforcement. FAA contends with much greater issues daily... and most of those slip right on by as well.

    Now, we can post on these forums trying to give this type of thing as much negative exposure as possible, that will ultimately cause some action by FAA, that undoubtedly will only continue the retardation model aviation...or we can just shut or say that’s pretty cool... and go on...

    Look the bottom line...the restrictions we have so far stem from a bunch of whining...so keep it up and you’ll have more to whine about...self fulfilling proposition...
    Good post.

    (Oh crap! I just sided with a guy named Little Crank! [])

    Harvey
    Weather Geek

  24. #74

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    RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.


    ORIGINAL: on_your_six

    The FAA has imposed a moratorium on ALL sUAS flying except under the three different specific authorities.

    What part of ALL don't you understand? Don't give me any of that Clintonesque ;"it depends on the definition of ..."

    AT present I would say that 99% of all rc flyers know nothing about any moratorium on uas flying nor are they required to know. Later
    on when the regulations take effect that will proberly change. Someone said the city or port authority had approved these flights so
    it would seem they were not aware of any laws that would make this illegal either.

    Im not aware of any rc flyers that the FAA has contacted and told of a moratorium in fact Silent is the only one that I have heard
    talking about a moratorium.
    Ira d

  25. #75

    RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.


    ORIGINAL: ira d

    ...in fact Silent is the only one that I have heard talking about a moratorium.
    I’d say that you have a point there. What’s a moratorium anyway? Is that like an exhaust deflector?
    It is very important to understand that Jesus not only died for our sins but died because of our sins...even harder to understand now, exactly what were those sins???


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