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Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

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Old 02-01-2012, 06:31 PM
  #51
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.


Quote:
ORIGINAL: H5487

Quote:
ORIGINAL: BobbyMcGee
We fly R/C toys ... they are not UAV's
Bobby,

Wake up, dude. While the rest of us agree with you in that our models are mostly "toys" for recreational use, the ugly truth is that the FAA HAS defined our models as UAVs (specifically as sUAVs) and is including our "toys" in the upcoming NPRM.

The subject at hand here is that this is not the time for any of us to be thumbing our noses at the FAA!

Harvey
Technically our airplanes are UAVs and they are small, sUAVs, but unless those flying superheros were equipped with functioning bomb vests I am not too concerned.
As far as the NPRM goes, the "P" is for proposed rule making. I am confident that our elected AMA guys will stay on top of the situation concerning that.
Since we now fight wars with unmanned air vehicles some rules here at home may be waranted, however, we have fought wars with guns since the beginning of this country and we see how rules have effected those items, not nearly enough in my opinion.

Bottom line, stop throwing rocks at the moon guys.

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Old 02-01-2012, 06:51 PM
  #52
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Vettdriver

I was approached by the A&E network about getting some aerial footage for their hog hunting show that is filmed here in Texas.

Although it never came to pass I was not going to be compensated, financially or otherwise, for my participation.
The best I was hoping for was some mention in the credits.

So, since I wasn't going to be paid...... Was it commercial ?
Probably, since the video that was to be shot would be used in the furtherence of a commercial venture (A&E's making the documentary). The FAA has said on numerous occasions that "compensation" is not limited to being paid with money. Compensation is also defined as being reimbursed for your gas, getting fed, or even receiving sex. (Darn!) The FAA has also said that a pilot who's flying someone for no compensation but for the purpose of logging the time (i.e. time building) is still receiving compensation. Therefore, the noteriety of having your name included in the credits would probably be seen by the FAA as having been illegally compensated for your flying. Sorry.

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Vettdriver

If these pilots volunteered their services would it then cease to be a commercial activity?
No, because they were fully aware that the video of their flights was going to be used in the furtherence of a commercial venture (the promotion of 20th Century Fox's movie).

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Old 02-01-2012, 06:56 PM
  #53
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.


Quote:
ORIGINAL: H5487

Quote:
ORIGINAL: BobbyMcGee
We fly R/C toys ... they are not UAV's
Bobby,

Wake up, dude. While the rest of us agree with you in that our models are mostly "toys" for recreational use, the ugly truth is that the FAA HAS defined our models as UAVs (specifically as sUAVs) and is including our "toys" in the upcoming NPRM.

The subject at hand here is that this is not the time for any of us to be thumbing our noses at the FAA!

Harvey
Harvey,

They can define our models as 'chicken soup,' but that does not mean they would or could treat modelers or models any differently than they do now. If they did, you can rest assured there would be a whole lot of thumbing noses at the FAA.

"Good men must not obey the laws too well" - Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Old 02-01-2012, 06:57 PM
  #54
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

Man this is where all the NUTZ went ... Don't take the color personal ... PLZ

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Old 02-01-2012, 07:00 PM
  #55
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.


Quote:
ORIGINAL: cj_rumley


Quote:
ORIGINAL: H5487

Quote:
ORIGINAL: BobbyMcGee
We fly R/C toys ... they are not UAV's
Bobby,

Wake up, dude. While the rest of us agree with you in that our models are mostly "toys" for recreational use, the ugly truth is that the FAA HAS defined our models as UAVs (specifically as sUAVs) and is including our "toys" in the upcoming NPRM.

The subject at hand here is that this is not the time for any of us to be thumbing our noses at the FAA!

Harvey
Harvey,

They can define our models as 'chicken soup,' but that does not mean they would or could treat modelers or models any differently than they do now. If they did, you can rest assured there would be a whole lot of thumbing noses at the FAA.

"Good men must not obey the laws too well" - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Hope the FAA arn't reading all these posts ... They do tend to take exception to certian things and comments ... Ask Bob Hoover
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Old 02-01-2012, 07:04 PM
  #56
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.


Quote:
ORIGINAL: thepamster
Since we now fight wars with unmanned air vehicles some rules here at home may be waranted...
The Pamster
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Our use of armed UAVs in Iraq and Afghanistan doesn't have anything to do with the upcoming NPRM. It's more like FAA's desire to address the rapidly mushrooming arena of commercial and government UAVs before they get out of hand.

Harvey
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Old 02-01-2012, 10:19 PM
  #57
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.


Quote:
ORIGINAL: H5487

So, then, are you guys saying that it is okay with you that three fellow modelers (AMA members at that) broke the law in a very public way during a time when the FAA has small UAVs (including our model airplanes) under the microscope?

Are you saying that their thumbing their noses at the FAA is nothing for the rest of us to be upset about?

How can you not care?

Harvey

The proposed laws are not in effect yet so what law did they break by flying some models to be photographed? About the only thing we could say is their AMA
insurance may not have been in force during the filming.
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Old 02-01-2012, 10:39 PM
  #58
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.


Quote:
ORIGINAL: ira d


Quote:
ORIGINAL: H5487

So, then, are you guys saying that it is okay with you that three fellow modelers (AMA members at that) broke the law in a very public way during a time when the FAA has small UAVs (including our model airplanes) under the microscope?

Are you saying that their thumbing their noses at the FAA is nothing for the rest of us to be upset about?

How can you not care?

Harvey

The proposed laws are not in effect yet so what law did they break by flying some models to be photographed? About the only thing we could say is their AMA
insurance may not have been in force during the filming.

The FAA has imposed a moratorium on all sUAS flying except under the three different specific authorities I have cited several times in this thread. If they were not operating in accordance with one of those then they were not legally operating. Why is that seemingly so difficult to understand?
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Old 02-02-2012, 12:08 AM
  #59
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R


Quote:
ORIGINAL: ira d


Quote:
ORIGINAL: H5487

So, then, are you guys saying that it is okay with you that three fellow modelers (AMA members at that) broke the law in a very public way during a time when the FAA has small UAVs (including our model airplanes) under the microscope?

Are you saying that their thumbing their noses at the FAA is nothing for the rest of us to be upset about?

How can you not care?

Harvey

The proposed laws are not in effect yet so what law did they break by flying some models to be photographed? About the only thing we could say is their AMA
insurance may not have been in force during the filming.

The FAA has imposed a moratorium on all sUAS flying except under the three different specific authorities I have cited several times in this thread. If they were not operating in accordance with one of those then they were not legally operating. Why is that seemingly so difficult to understand?

We dont know what authority they may or may not havebeen operating under, But IMO untill the FAA publishes some specific rules that state exactly what a
modelercan or can't do I dont think they have broken any laws.
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Old 02-02-2012, 03:45 AM
  #60
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

The FAA has imposed a moratorium on ALL sUAS flying except under the three different specific authorities.

What part of ALL don't you understand? Don't give me any of that Clintonesque ;"it depends on the definition of ..."
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Old 02-02-2012, 03:59 AM
  #61
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.


Quote:
ORIGINAL: H5487

So, then, are you guys saying that it is okay with you that three fellow modelers (AMA members at that) broke the law in a very public way during a time when the FAA has small UAVs (including our model airplanes) under the microscope?

Are you saying that their thumbing their noses at the FAA is nothing for the rest of us to be upset about?

How can you not care?

Harvey
Broke the law!!!???? Snubbing the FAA???? You have got to be kidding! They were flying their toys.You guys crack me up with your invented "authority". Speaking of, under what authority do you guys operate to be making such claims and innuendo/gossip? Some peopl know just enough to be dangerous. Stop being an alarmist.

Next thing, you're going to say kite flying is illegal...

The funniest thing is that when all is said and done, the FAA is going to be laughing at the R/C hobby people who think they were 'under the gun' for the regulations the FAAmay impose on UAV's. What a stretch for anyone to think our toys are UAV's.

You are making way too much of this. Calm down, take a valium, and come back in a few days.

I will be getting my superhero soon, and I'll fly mine around the skies of NYC to give the people of NYC a feeling of being protected by Superman.
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Old 02-02-2012, 05:34 AM
  #62
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

Quote:
ORIGINAL: HoundDog
Hope the FAA arn't reading all these posts ... They do tend to take exception to certian things and comments ... Ask Bob Hoover

Vee must stop zee anti-authority speech of zee dissenters, ya ?
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Old 02-02-2012, 06:32 AM
  #63
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.


Quote:
ORIGINAL: ira d

We dont know what authority they may or may not have been operating under, But IMO untill the FAA publishes some specific rules that state exactly what a
modeler can or can't do I dont think they have broken any laws.
Well we can certainly deduce what authority they were using.

Are they a public agency like a police force, etc.? No, they are not, therefore they cannot obtain a COA, so we know they were not operating under a COA.

Were they hobbyists flying for sport or recreation? No, they were not. We know this because they were doing this as part of the advertising for a movie.

So that leaves operation as a civil aircraft, for which they are required to obtain a Special Airworthiness Certificate, which I strongly doubt they have for the RC Superhero. Unless they did posses one of these then they were operating outside FAA policy. Since the FAA is currently not granting these, then we can be secure in our assumption that they did not have one.

And the FAA HAS published several clear statements of current sUAS operations policy. You can find them here:

http://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/uas/

Specifically look at these:

http://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives...notice_uas.pdf

http://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives...dance08-01.pdf

Lastly, we must never confuse our ignorance of the policy or unwillingness to follow them as being the same thing as being in compliance.
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Old 02-02-2012, 06:34 AM
  #64
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

Quote:
ORIGINAL: BobbyMcGee

Broke the law!!!???? Snubbing the FAA???? You have got to be kidding! They were flying their toys. You guys crack me up with your invented ''authority''.
Please review the sources I cited above from the FAA. These are not "invented". Again, your inability to accept reality or simply choosing to ignore it, is not the same thing as being right.
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Old 02-02-2012, 06:38 AM
  #65
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

Look, if it makes any of the other wash women here feel better, the “superhero pilots” were just asked to show up, dressed in black for some photos. While there, they decided to go ahead and fly a little... That’s what I heard while hanging my cloths up to dry and I am sticking to it...

Now, let’s talk about something that really matters... http://soaps.sheknows.com/generalhos...Maker_Instead/


Silent, what did you think when Matt caught Elizabeth looking through Jason's file at the hospital?
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Old 02-02-2012, 06:49 AM
  #66
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

I forgot one more reference:

http://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives...FACT_Sheet.pdf

This is a short summary for those who do not want to take the time to actually read the other, longer, documents.
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Old 02-02-2012, 06:50 AM
  #67
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

Oh please!!!    This is Stupid!  Who Cares!    
SOMEONE STOP THIS!!!!!!!
 PLEASE! THIS IS KILLIN ME!
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Old 02-02-2012, 06:59 AM
  #68
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

No one is required to be here, Attendence is not Required ...
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:00 AM
  #69
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

Continued Disregard of bad R/C Flying Practices can only make it more likely that the FAA will place limits on our Hobby/Sport to the degree it becomes to expensive or too restrictive to participate any longer. So Just keep promoting This type of behavior and when the ***** Hits the Fan we'll have no one to blame but our selves.



And Yes I'm SHOUTING "DO U HEAR ME NOW"?



I sure hope I'm not breaking any RCU Rules



Sorry if I am



Please resist the urge to curse, flame, degrade, insult or embarrass someone in your post. We encourage the free flow of your ideas, but believe that they can be communicated (and received) much more effectively if you keep things civil. If you have to vent, take it offline. We carefully monitor posts and will ban individuals who engage in offensive conduct within the forums. Thanks. (RCU Policies)

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Old 02-02-2012, 07:06 AM
  #70
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

Quote:
ORIGINAL: ES CONTROL

Oh please!!! This is Stupid! Who Cares!
SOMEONE STOP THIS!!!!!!!
PLEASE! THIS IS KILLIN ME!
Look dude, complaining about this thread is like hitting yourself with a hammer. You have full authority to stop your own misery BY NOT READING THE POSTS!

Jeeez, nobody's making you read this stuff!

Harvey
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:21 AM
  #71
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

Silent,
Six,

Give it up. These guys are just playing with us. NOBODY can be THAT ignorant of the situation that they can continue to blindly argue against the facts that have been presented to them. Let them stick their hands over their ears while chanting "La La La, I can't hear you". When storm clouds roll in, all some people seem to see are clouds shaped like kittens and ponies.

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Old 02-02-2012, 07:21 AM
  #72
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

Hmmm... how to end this debacle??? I’ll try.

Yes, there are laws for just about every single thing we do today.[:@]

In this case, the consensus is the law no greater than the enforcement. FAA contends with much greater issues daily... and most of those slip right on by as well.

Now, we can post on these forums trying to give this type of thing as much negative exposure as possible, that will ultimately cause some action by FAA, that undoubtedly will only continue the retardation model aviation...or we can just shut or say that’s pretty cool... and go on...

Look the bottom line...the restrictions we have so far stem from a bunch of whining...so keep it up and you’ll have more to whine about...self fulfilling proposition...
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:24 AM
  #73
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

Quote:
ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf

Hmmm... how to end this debacle??? I’ll try.

Yes, there are laws for just about every single thing we do today.[:@]

In this case, the consensus is the law no greater than the enforcement. FAA contends with much greater issues daily... and most of those slip right on by as well.

Now, we can post on these forums trying to give this type of thing as much negative exposure as possible, that will ultimately cause some action by FAA, that undoubtedly will only continue the retardation model aviation...or we can just shut or say that’s pretty cool... and go on...

Look the bottom line...the restrictions we have so far stem from a bunch of whining...so keep it up and you’ll have more to whine about...self fulfilling proposition...
Good post.

(Oh crap! I just sided with a guy named Little Crank! [])

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Old 02-02-2012, 07:27 AM
  #74
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.


Quote:
ORIGINAL: on_your_six

The FAA has imposed a moratorium on ALL sUAS flying except under the three different specific authorities.

What part of ALL don't you understand? Don't give me any of that Clintonesque ;"it depends on the definition of ..."

AT present I would say that 99% of all rc flyers know nothing about any moratorium on uas flying nor are they required to know. Later
on when the regulations take effect that will proberly change. Someone said the city or port authority had approved these flights so
it would seem they were not aware of any laws that would make this illegal either.

Im not aware of any rc flyers that the FAA has contacted and told of a moratorium in fact Silent is the only one that I have heard
talking about a moratorium.
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:33 AM
  #75
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: ira d

...in fact Silent is the only one that I have heard talking about a moratorium.
I’d say that you have a point there. What’s a moratorium anyway? Is that like an exhaust deflector?
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