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Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

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Old 02-03-2012, 03:07 PM
  #201
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

I have a question for the 8 pages of posters and the OP. If you can see New York City in the back ground, Doesn't that mean that the models were in fact launched in, and returned to New Jersy? and the East river that they were flying over in part of New Jersy not New York. So what is the big deal? they were in a park in New Jersy with permission of Elisabeth township, flying over the East River that is Part of the Garden State of New jersy.

Just sayin
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Old 02-03-2012, 03:13 PM
  #202
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

Quote:
ORIGINAL: perdo

I have a question for the 8 pages of posters and the OP. If you can see New York City in the back ground, Doesn't that mean that the models were in fact launched in, and returned to New Jersy? and the East river that they were flying over in part of New Jersy not New York. So what is the big deal? they were in a park in New Jersy with permission of Elisabeth township, flying over the East River that is Part of the Garden State of New jersy.

Just sayin
Perdo,

It doesn't matter which city, if any, issued a permit because only the FAA controls the nation's airspace. Contrary to popular belief, no city "owns" the airspace above it. Therefore, if FAA approval wasn't received, the legality of the promotional flights is what we've been discussing.

What part of Lubbock are you in? I was stationed at Reese AFB when it was open.

Harvey
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Old 02-03-2012, 03:37 PM
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.


Quote:
ORIGINAL: H5487


It doesn't matter which city, if any, issued a permit because only the FAA controls the nation's airspace. Contrary to popular belief, no city "owns" the airspace above it. Therefore, if FAA approval wasn't received, the legality of the promotional flights is what we've been discussing.
Harvey
Except for all FAA law (to date) on the matter refers to a voluntary controlling document as it applies to model aircraft.
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Old 02-03-2012, 04:18 PM
  #204
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

Harvey,
I live in West Lbbock, and we used to fly at the old Reese AFB. until the mean spirited folks decided to kick us off. It is now Reese Center and loses about 4 million a years but the privately held corp that runs it makes money every year????? hhhhmmmm

And you are correct about the FAA control however they we contacted before the shoot and the City and and Faa agreed to allow it
It was just like shooting a movie on and Air Force or army base or in the streets of NYC. They were properly permitted and paid there pound of flesh ( I mean Fees). So this thread is realy a non- subject.
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Old 02-03-2012, 04:37 PM
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

Perdo,

Where did you hear that they had, indeed, received permits from the FAA? That's what we've been trying to find out.

I used to practically live at Whaler's Bay restaurant on the base road. I've heard that it's no longer there. A shame!

Harvey
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Old 02-03-2012, 04:46 PM
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

they had permission , thats all that matters, who cares what city it was in!?!??!?
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Old 02-03-2012, 04:52 PM
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.


Quote:
ORIGINAL: MetallicaJunkie

they had permission , thats all that matters, who cares what city it was in!?!??!?
If you'll just show us where you learned that, you'll have the priviledge of settling the entire debate.

Harvey
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Old 02-03-2012, 06:04 PM
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.


Quote:
ORIGINAL: H5487


Quote:
ORIGINAL: MetallicaJunkie

they had permission , thats all that matters, who cares what city it was in!?!??!?
If you'll just show us where you learned that, you'll have the priviledge of settling the entire debate.

Harvey
Still waiting...

Harvey
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Old 02-03-2012, 06:06 PM
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

Bloomberg approved it
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Old 02-03-2012, 06:51 PM
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

And did his girlfriend approve his approval?

Harvey
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Old 02-03-2012, 07:53 PM
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

They don't need permission, permits or approvals. They were just flying their toys. The FAA doens't concern itself with toys being flown at a park.
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Old 02-03-2012, 07:59 PM
  #212
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

Perdo
Quote:
And you are correct about the FAA control however they we contacted before the shoot and the City and and Faa agreed to allow it
cite source that the FAA 'gave permission'
We all know about the LA sheriff having permission from the local sheriffs office to fly 'models',
yet the FAA came in and spanked them for it.

Quote:
I have a question for the 8 pages of posters and the OP. If you can see New York City in the back ground, Doesn't that mean that the models were in fact launched in, and returned to New Jersy?
because 20thFox's stunt was in new york, and they practiced in Jersey, per LA Times.
You may also have read how the 2:38 'making of' video in the park is the only one most folks have seen.

. . . .

Auger
Quote:
Except for all FAA law (to date) on the matter refers to a voluntary controlling document as it applies to model aircraft.
Nope,
you are only considering the law that applies when it is NOT a Public nor Civil UAS, but conforms to the requirements to use the authorization for models. And that is where you are just posting your opinion/desire as fact: you want it to be treated as a model so you just say that it is. But the craft used in 20thFox's advertizing was fufilling a business purpose. Even 'working off the clock' for 20thFox is still fulfilling a Business Purpose for that business. Models cannot be flown for Business Purpose, that makes it a Civil UAV and subject to the recent grounding

Auggie, you do know that California grounded the UAV cameras in the film industry
when FAA cracked down on Civil UAV's that were not cert'ed, right?
There is plenty of folks pretending their Civil UAV is just a model and unregulated,
and they are wrong,
and they are in the company of folks like the LA Sheriff in being that wrong about what is a Civil UAV and what is a Model.
What the LA Sheriff flew was a unregulated model, but only when it was flown recreationally,
when the sheriff flew it that model became a Public UAV just by looking at WHY is was flown, its PURPOSE.

When 20thFox fires up a business adverting stunt, that there is a business purpose.
When the Sheriff gives you amodel and asks you to take pictures of potfarms without paying you, that is still a Public Purpose if you are not a member of the sheriffs dept... and that is no longer 'recreational modeling'. We just recently saw a UAV give pictures of BloodRiver pollution to the EPA: that was recreational flying because the EPA didnt send them there and tell them to take the pictures- if the EPA starts handing out recon sorties to modelers they are no longer modelers but Public UAV users.
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Old 02-03-2012, 08:07 PM
  #213
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.


Quote:
ORIGINAL: H5487

And did his girlfriend approve his approval?

Harvey
no, but his wife did [8D]
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Old 02-03-2012, 08:12 PM
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

Kid,

Give it up. We have ALL told these guys the same thing over and over and over and they keep coming back denying everything they've been presented. I think it's about time that we simply ignored them because it seems that their only goal is to disrupt the thread.

Harvey
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Old 02-03-2012, 09:01 PM
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.


Quote:
ORIGINAL: H5487

Kid,

Give it up. We have ALL told these guys the same thing over and over and over and they keep coming back denying everything they've been presented. I think it's about time that we simply ignored them because it seems that their only goal is to disrupt the thread.

Harvey
The one thing that hasn’t been established is whether the “flying people” pilots were paid or compensated... I think that would be the starter... Otherwise we are simply amusing ourselves with speculation and conjecture.
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Old 02-03-2012, 09:07 PM
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

no harm no foul... they are 2# park flyers
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Old 02-03-2012, 09:54 PM
  #217
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.


Quote:
ORIGINAL: MetallicaJunkie

no harm no foul... they are 2# park flyers
couldn’t agree more...
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Old 02-03-2012, 10:10 PM
  #218
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

Quote:
Models cannot be flown for Business Purpose, that makes it a Civil UAV and subject to the recent grounding
BS ! That is not the rule. The rule is for certain types of commercial. The FAA has been allowing profitable use of models for certain types of profitable use.

Case's in point. they have not required sUAS certification of models being used for training. There are RC training schools and to my knowledge the FAA has not banned this. They have stated that one can test fly RC models to be made for production, I recall that as something said on one of the AMA pubs.In fact these two examples are in the AMA recommendations.I don't think they have been concerned about a pilot being sponsered to fly RC competition.

What they have been concerned about lately is real estate developers hiring out an RC helicopter to take aerial pictures of house. It is a big issue in Calafornia apparently.

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news..._206105-1.html

If you step back and look at this from their perspective, this type of use is potentially dangerous because they are flying over populated areas and don't have any required training. Flying RC in a normal manner in accordance with AMA or other safety rules then there is littly likely hood that RC planes will cause damage to people or property on the ground or air.

Getting paid to fly R/C models flown withen AMA rules does not make them unsafe. But using them to take pictures for what ever reason over populated areas is not safe.
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Old 02-04-2012, 04:12 AM
  #219
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

Quote:
ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy. . . .

Auger
Quote:
Except for all FAA law (to date) on the matter refers to a voluntary controlling document as it applies to model aircraft.
Nope,
you are only considering the law that applies when it is NOT a Public nor Civil UAS, but conforms to the requirements to use the authorization for models. And that is where you are just posting your opinion/desire as fact: you want it to be treated as a model so you just say that it is. But the craft used in 20thFox's advertizing was fufilling a business purpose. Even 'working off the clock' for 20thFox is still fulfilling a Business Purpose for that business. Models cannot be flown for Business Purpose, that makes it a Civil UAV and subject to the recent grounding

Auggie, you do know that California grounded the UAV cameras in the film industry
when FAA cracked down on Civil UAV's that were not cert'ed, right?
There is plenty of folks pretending their Civil UAV is just a model and unregulated,
and they are wrong,
and they are in the company of folks like the LA Sheriff in being that wrong about what is a Civil UAV and what is a Model.
What the LA Sheriff flew was a unregulated model, but only when it was flown recreationally,
when the sheriff flew it that model became a Public UAV just by looking at WHY is was flown, its PURPOSE.

When 20thFox fires up a business adverting stunt, that there is a business purpose.
When the Sheriff gives you amodel and asks you to take pictures of potfarms without paying you, that is still a Public Purpose if you are not a member of the sheriffs dept... and that is no longer 'recreational modeling'. We just recently saw a UAV give pictures of BloodRiver pollution to the EPA: that was recreational flying because the EPA didnt send them there and tell them to take the pictures- if the EPA starts handing out recon sorties to modelers they are no longer modelers but Public UAV users.

Linkto the law ?

California was stopped due to lack of movie permit froma local / state agency...the LAPDadvisory states clearly it MAY violate FAAlaws.
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Old 02-04-2012, 04:54 AM
  #220
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

Doesn't anyone have something, anything better to do than this?
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Old 02-04-2012, 04:58 AM
  #221
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We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force.

Ayn Rand





Or, better still ... When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; when you see that men get rich more easily by graft than by work, and your laws no longer protect you against them, but protect them against you. . . you may know that your society is doomed.” Ayn Rand
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Old 02-04-2012, 05:00 AM
  #222
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.


Quote:
ORIGINAL: BobbyMcGee

Doesn't anyone have something, anythingbetter to do than this?
Whypostthis ?

It is like going to a tupperware party to b!tch about how much you hate going to tupperware parties.
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Old 02-04-2012, 05:33 AM
  #223
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

Quote:
ORIGINAL: AugerDawger


Quote:
ORIGINAL: BobbyMcGee

Doesn't anyone have something, anything better to do than this?
Why post this ?

It is like going to a tupperware party to b!tch about how much you hate going to tupperware parties.
AMEN!

It constantly amazes me how some folks will whine and complain about doing something (i.e. reading this thread) that they're doing entirely by their own choice. Where's the logic in that?

My subdivision has a resident who goes several streets away from his own house to look over other peoples backyard fences to see if he can find something to offend him.

Harvey
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Old 02-04-2012, 06:03 AM
  #224
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

This was posted in another thread. Has anybody looked into H.R. 658 to see what it says?

Thanks to Red for posting it!

Harvey



Quote:
ORIGINAL: Red Scholefield

Date: February 3, 2012
Contact: Chris Brooks, APR
765-287-1256, ext. 276
chrisb@modelaircraft.org
Congress protects aeromodeling from burdensome federal regulations

M U N C I E – The U.S. House of Representatives today passed H.R. 658, the first full FAA Reauthorization Bill in more than four years. In passing the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 the House adopted a provision aimed at protecting model aviation from burdensome regulation.
Passage by the House is the first step in the final process of bringing this bill into law. The Senate will take up the bill on Monday with a final vote expected by the end of the day.
“AMA will continue to advocate for the rights of the modeling community, and we look forward to continuing our constructive dialogue with the FAA on safety matters.” said Rich Hanson, AMA’s Government Relations and Regulatory Affairs representative. “We appreciate Sen. James Inhofe (R-Ok) for sponsoring the amendment and the leadership of the House and Senate committees for respecting the concerns of aeromodelers..”
Efforts in bringing awareness to Congressional representatives by AMA members have played a pivotal role in conveying the concerns of the aeromodeling community. AMA President Bob Brown expressed his personal gratitude by saying, “I want to personally thank all of the members of the Academy who took the time to write Congress about this issue. Last year more than 90,000 letters were sent to Congress expressing concerns regarding proposed federal regulation that could potentially diminish existing model aircraft activity.”
For additional information, and to stay current with this issue, please visit the Academy’s government relations website at www.modelaircraft.org/gov.
The Academy of Model Aeronautics, founded in 1936, represents 143,000 aeromodelers and 2,400 clubs throughout the United States. The AMA sanctions more than 2,000 events and competitions every year.
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Old 02-04-2012, 08:59 AM
  #225
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Default RE: Model airplanes over NYC bad idea.

Whoever started this thread needs to get off his soapbox and use spell check...
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