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  1. #776
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    RE: Regulation passed the House

    sport,
    i am guessing, that, just about the same percentage of folks(same folks even) that vote in AMA elections, will be the same ones that actually pony up any surcharge needed to fight a court battle. all the rest will just not bother to renew until the dust settles. if they even re join then.
    Bottom Feeder Brother #13
    when they outlaw R/C, only outlaws will have R/C
    13 of 27

  2. #777
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    RE: Regulation passed the House


    ORIGINAL: mongo

    sport,
    i am guessing, that, just about the same percentage of folks(same folks even) that vote in AMA elections, will be the same ones that actually pony up any surcharge needed to fight a court battle. all the rest will just not bother to renew until the dust settles. if they even re join then.
    But of course the same ones who vote can vote to jack up the dues to pay court costs.
    Glow Head Brotherhood #15

  3. #778

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    RE: Regulation passed the House

    Hard to reason with people whose idea of what goes on in court comes from watching TV. Takes about ten minutes, then the wise judge or jury rules for the good guys. And they seldom talk about legal fees. In real life, it can take 20 years or more, legal fees alone can run to the millions, and the agency gets "deference" (look up "Chevron Doctrine" someday). Sensible people don't say "It's court time" with joy, unless they are lawyers and their clients are wealthy.
    Al Gunn
    Ultra Sport Brotherhood No. 9

  4. #779
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    RE: Regulation passed the House

    same result sport, the 90% or so that do not vote, will not stay members for a dues increase of that magnitude either. brings us back to, the 10-12 thousand that participate being the ones who will bear whatever burden there is. 10.00 a year aint gona cover it.
    Bottom Feeder Brother #13
    when they outlaw R/C, only outlaws will have R/C
    13 of 27

  5. #780
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    RE: Regulation passed the House

    Rob
    If they want to put the quick kebash on the whole operation, all they have to do is nitpick, based on the Congressional Conference Committee's position on what an organization must do to be a community-based organization under the law.

    Suppose they say to the AMA, "Uhhhhh. You don't have a good enough liaison going with congress and governmental agencies. We find you unqualified to act as the community-based organization under the law." As you say, it's court time. That sound really macho, but the truth of the matter is that it is just plain expensive and probably will produce no results for ten to twenty years. During that time the AMA is out of business outside of running contests and polishing their website.
    "We find you unqualified to act as the community-based organization under the law."
    Fortunately, congress didnt require cbos to get FAA approval of their degree of Liaisonocity, nor of their safety Comprehesivocity, nor of any other attribute congress defines CBOs as having. Congress did not set any bars to reach, and granted no agency power to establish bars for it. That Bar Reaching /AgencyEvaluation is not in the text, but only in your mind based on your agenda and talking points rather than the text. Congress set no bars and gave nobody permission to set those bars for them.

    Of course, FAA could try making up regulations/rules on CBOs that establish bar reaching,
    but of course those would be coming in AFTER congress mandated FAA make no regs/rules on CBOs.
    (making them Bar Reaching CBO rules 'unlawful' and 'readily-court-killable')

    But we went over this (and over and over), my old bowling buddys, remember?
    Circle circle circle, just keep going after you get shot down,
    folks love 40 page threads with only 7 pages of info repeated repetitiously, redundantly, and repetitiously



    wow
    you really paint a picture of AMA wasting lots and lots of money
    lobbying to get this congressional protection.

    Cause you are saying the FAA can do whatever it wants WITH this law in place,
    which is pretty much exactly where we were before we paid our money to buy this congressional protection.

    How can you say its a great victory that we are now treated the same as we would be without it.
    You say the FAA is gonna do what they want,
    and thats what we had when our lobby dollars were still in our coffers.

    Of course, I dont believe you.

    And from what folks have been saying about this great victory for the AMA,
    I would hazard they dont believe muncie was played as a chump either.
    However, you just go on believing our great victory was a waste of AMA funds, that FAA will just do what it wants regardless of fed law, and we poor downtrodden les mis in the AMA are powerless to stop the evil FAA overlords that ignore congressional orders,
    if you want... its a free country after all

  6. #781
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    RE: Regulation passed the House


    ORIGINAL: mongo

    same result sport, the 90% or so that do not vote, will not stay members for a dues increase of that magnitude either. brings us back to, the 10-12 thousand that participate being the ones who will bear whatever burden there is. 10.00 a year aint gona cover it.

    A ten dollar increase will pay legal fees of over one million dollars. Most would not even complain. But sure this forum would be full of complaints.

    Also though legal fees could cost over a million dollars for a case that went all the way to SCOTUS it is doubtful it would. Though it could take 20 years it usually takes about 5 years.
    Glow Head Brotherhood #15

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    RE: Regulation passed the House

    It's quite true that bureaucrats can put in place "rules" that have the effect of law. Often, they get them in place, and no one notices until there is public outcry.
    At that point, it's up to congress and/or the courts to change things. As it stands, the bureaucrats have the edge in the court systems, and, to some extent, in congress as well.
    Congress passes a law. The bureaucrats create "rules" or "regulations" that supposedly are to implement the law.
    The rules and regulations can be used to do things that congress did not want to do, or did not specify.
    The most often/common use is to restrict eligibility to some sort of federal program or benefit.

  8. #783
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    RE: Regulation passed the House

    The FAA has two mandates from Congress 1. Promote Aviation 2. Safe Guard the flying Public in the NAS. These two mandates will and have been the FAA's Bible. If they Deem some thing is a danger to the "Flying Public" Not even an "Act of Congress" will stop them from finding a way to regulate it. "And U can Take That To The Bank".

    If the FAA could find a way to put transponders on Geese you better bet they'd do it. Unelected Government Officials (FAA, NTSB, HLS, DEA, BP, IRS, Czars, President, and some Elected, ect) Today do what they want when they want and Congress or the Constitution Be "DAMMED". And that's just the way it is in the late 20th and early 21st Century in the "Good O'l USofA"

    Remember ... Every one of these Things we fly Comes with a Number, When the R/C Gods call that Number, it's going in a Garbage Bag, No Sniveling Allowed.
    P-47 Thunderbolt Brotherhood #24 & #43

  9. #784
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    RE: Regulation passed the House


    ORIGINAL: HoundDog

    The FAA has two mandates from Congress 1. Promote Aviation 2. Safe Guard the flying Public in the NAS. These two mandates will and have been the FAA's Bible. If they Deem some thing isΒ* a dangerΒ* to the ''Flying Public'' Not even an ''Act of Congress'' will stop them from finding a way to regulate it. ''And U can Take That To The Bank''.


    Can you cite an example where the FAA has done this?
    Team Futaba - RClipos.com

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    RE: Regulation passed the House


    ORIGINAL: HoundDog

    The FAA has two mandates from Congress 1. Promote Aviation 2. Safe Guard the flying Public in the NAS. These two mandates will and have been the FAA's Bible. If they Deem some thing is a danger to the "Flying Public" Not even an "Act of Congress" will stop them from finding a way to regulate it. "And U can Take That To The Bank".

    If the FAA could find a way to put transponders on Geese you better bet they'd do it. Unelected Government Officials (FAA, NTSB, HLS, DEA, BP, IRS, Czars, President, and some Elected, ect) Today do what they want when they want and Congress or the Constitution Be "DAMMED". And that's just the way it is in the late 20th and early 21st Century in the "Good O'l USofA"

    You know, when I see a posting as bizarre and wrong headed like this one, one question always comes to mind.

    When did the schools stop teaching civics?

    It seems that entirely too many people posting to this forum have no clue how our government works.

    Every single government agency reports to an elected official, the president of the United States. Every single government agency is regulated by laws written by Congress as signed by the President of the United States. Under no circumstance may an agency overreach and act outside of the specific limits imposed on them by Congress.. Any instance of overreaching is promptly acted on by Congress.



  11. #786
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    RE: Regulation passed the House


    ORIGINAL: JohnShe


    ORIGINAL: HoundDog

    The FAA has two mandates from Congress 1. Promote Aviation 2. Safe Guard the flying Public in the NAS. These two mandates will and have been the FAA's Bible. If they Deem some thing is a danger to the "Flying Public" Not even an "Act of Congress" will stop them from finding a way to regulate it. "And U can Take That To The Bank".

    If the FAA could find a way to put transponders on Geese you better bet they'd do it. Unelected Government Officials (FAA, NTSB, HLS, DEA, BP, IRS, Czars, President, and some Elected, ect) Today do what they want when they want and Congress or the Constitution Be "DAMMED". And that's just the way it is in the late 20th and early 21st Century in the "Good O'l USofA"

    You know, when I see a posting as bizarre and wrong headed like this one, one question always comes to mind.

    When did the schools stop teaching civics?

    It seems that entirely too many people posting to this forum have no clue how our government works.

    Every single government agency reports to an elected official, the president of the United States. Every single government agency is regulated by laws written by Congress as signed by the President of the United States. Under no circumstance may an agency overreach and act outside of the specific limits imposed on them by Congress.. Any instance of overreaching is promptly acted on by Congress.


    Long time ago ... what do U think the Czars are all about the rule by presidential decree. Patrioat Act ... WAKE UP!
    After theFAR's concerning sUAS's goes into effect U better pray to GOD that we never have an Incedent or Accident concerning an ICBO and a GA or Commerical Aircraft.

    Remember ... Every one of these Things we fly Comes with a Number, When the R/C Gods call that Number, it's going in a Garbage Bag, No Sniveling Allowed.
    P-47 Thunderbolt Brotherhood #24 & #43

  12. #787
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    RE: Regulation passed the House

    If they were going to do somthing congress be dammed.  Would they be asking their legal department to review the law?  I believe the FAA tries to be within the law.  Sometimes they may misinterprete the law, or some employee makes a mistake, or something stupid.  But generally I believe the FAA tries to follow the law.
    Glow Head Brotherhood #15

  13. #788

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    RE: Regulation passed the House

    Any instance of overreaching is promptly acted on by Congress.
    Sure. And Santa Claus is real. Must be nice out there in fantasyland.

    The government does so much these days that no one can keep track of more than a tiny bit of it, and that "no one" certainly includes Congress. The government issues some 80,000 pages of new regulations every year. And somebody thinks Congress reads all that stuff, or even cares much?

    I doubt that the FAA is going to adopt a 400-foot rule. Even if they do, I doubt that they'll enforce it. Still, it's something they might do, and their Deputy Director has talked about doing it. The sky isn't falling, and it probably won't, but it's too early to be sure that everything is just peachy.
    Al Gunn
    Ultra Sport Brotherhood No. 9

  14. #789

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    RE: Regulation passed the House


    ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot

    If they were going to do something congress be dammed. Would they be asking their legal department to review the law? I believe the FAA tries to be within the law. Sometimes they may misinterpret the law, or some employee makes a mistake, or something stupid. But generally I believe the FAA tries to follow the law.
    That is correct. Human error is the only thing we have to deal with. And for those who remember anything taught in their Civics course, we have plenty of methods to seek corrective action. Every rule written by an agency must go through public review. it is the responsibility of the citizens to review and comment as they feel if appropriate. The AMA has promised to keep us members up to date and in the loop. When the regulations come out for review we will have plenty of time to read and comment directly to the FAA. And, the FAA is required by law to respond to all comments.





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    RE: Regulation passed the House


    ORIGINAL: Top_Gunn

    Any instance of overreaching is promptly acted on by Congress.
    Sure. And Santa Claus is real. Must be nice out there in fantasyland.

    The government does so much these days that no one can keep track of more than a tiny bit of it, and that "no one" certainly includes Congress. The government issues some 80,000 pages of new regulations every year. And somebody thinks Congress reads all that stuff, or even cares much?

    I doubt that the FAA is going to adopt a 400-foot rule. Even if they do, I doubt that they'll enforce it. Still, it's something they might do, and their Deputy Director has talked about doing it. The sky isn't falling, and it probably won't, but it's too early to be sure that everything is just peachy.
    Every day, the news media reports events in government that validate my fantasy. Read a real newspaper or watch a news program that actually reports news and not just opinion. And you will see that I am correct.

    Actually, the FAA Representative, at the forum this past January, gave the impression n that the FAA will adopt the AMA guidelines. And the AMAis leaving a strong impression that the 400 ft rule is history. Anyway, the AMA has promised to submit their proposed guidelines to the membership for review and comment. If they screw up the guidelines, there will be a howl of complaint, believe me because I will be howling with the pack.

    This will also be an opportunity for those who believe the AMA is too harsh on certain types of flying to offer suggestions to reduce the harshness.






  16. #791

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    RE: Regulation passed the House


    ORIGINAL: JohnShe


    ORIGINAL: HoundDog

    The FAA has two mandates from Congress 1. Promote Aviation 2. Safe Guard the flying Public in the NAS. These two mandates will and have been the FAA's Bible. If they Deem some thing is a danger to the "Flying Public" Not even an "Act of Congress" will stop them from finding a way to regulate it. "And U can Take That To The Bank".

    If the FAA could find a way to put transponders on Geese you better bet they'd do it. Unelected Government Officials (FAA, NTSB, HLS, DEA, BP, IRS, Czars, President, and some Elected, ect) Today do what they want when they want and Congress or the Constitution Be "DAMMED". And that's just the way it is in the late 20th and early 21st Century in the "Good O'l USofA"

    You know, when I see a posting as bizarre and wrong headed like this one, one question always comes to mind.

    When did the schools stop teaching civics?

    It seems that entirely too many people posting to this forum have no clue how our government works.

    Every single government agency reports to an elected official, the president of the United States. Every single government agency is regulated by laws written by Congress as signed by the President of the United States. Under no circumstance may an agency overreach and act outside of the specific limits imposed on them by Congress.. Any instance of overreaching is promptly acted on by Congress.


    Another question that comes to mind is:

    When did some folks quit keeping up with current events and the current administration?

    K-Bob. The K is silent. \"The only time you can have too much fuel is if you are on fire\"

  17. #792

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    RE: Regulation passed the House


    ORIGINAL: K-Bob


    Another question that comes to mind is:

    When did some folks quit keeping up with current events and the current administration?

    You are absolutely right K-Bob, there are too many people who don't have a clue about what our government is doing or not doing. And yes, I don't agree with congress or the executive branch on everything they do or fail to do. That is why I frequently pester my representatives to do the right thing.


  18. #793
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    RE: Regulation passed the House

     

    The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. by Thomas Jefferson

    If U fail to be Vigilant and keep your Government in check, U will pay the price.

    Who would have ever thought it would be Proclaimed Legal to "Assassinate" American Citizens Suspected, not proven in a court of law, of Terrorism ... Compliments of your Government.

    Remember ... Every one of these Things we fly Comes with a Number, When the R/C Gods call that Number, it's going in a Garbage Bag, No Sniveling Allowed.
    P-47 Thunderbolt Brotherhood #24 & #43

  19. #794
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    RE: Regulation passed the House

    Someone waaaay back in this thread posted "we have seen the enemy, and it is us". Yep, sure is leaning that way.

    Some of you seem to believe that our freedom of flying is more important to AMA than keeping the lights on in the Muncie Palace. Really? We seem to be getting plenty of info from the government side of this, but not so much from the AMA side.

    Hmmm, guaranteed existence through manditory membership. Thats my bet!

    There are none blinder than those that refuse to see.....
    \" Fire in all the holes! \"
    β€œ Unlimited power is apt to corrupt the minds of those who possess it. ”
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  20. #795
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    RE: Regulation passed the House


    ORIGINAL: extra-nut

    Someone waaaay back in this thread posted "we have seen the enemy, and it is us". Yep, sure is leaning that way.

    Some of you seem to believe that our freedom of flying is more important to AMA than keeping the lights on in the Muncie Palace. Really? We seem to be getting plenty of info from the government side of this, but not so much from the AMA side.

    Hmmm, guaranteed existence through manditory membership. Thats my bet!

    There are none blinder than those that refuse to see.....
    Hey Okie ... What you mean Willis
    Remember ... Every one of these Things we fly Comes with a Number, When the R/C Gods call that Number, it's going in a Garbage Bag, No Sniveling Allowed.
    P-47 Thunderbolt Brotherhood #24 & #43

  21. #796
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    RE: Regulation passed the House


    ORIGINAL: HoundDog


    ORIGINAL: extra-nut

    Someone waaaay back in this thread posted ''we have seen the enemy, and it is us''. Yep, sure is leaning that way.

    Some of you seem to believe that our freedom of flying is more important to AMA than keeping the lights on in the Muncie Palace. Really? We seem to be getting plenty of info from the government side of this, but not so much from the AMA side.

    Hmmm, guaranteed existence through manditory membership. Thats my bet!

    There are none blinder than those that refuse to see.....
    Hey Okie ... What you mean Willis
    Daa-gum Hound that's some funny stuff rat thar! I bet your momma wishes she'd swallowed you when she had the chance![X(]


    [If U fail to be Vigilant and keep your Government in check, U will pay the price.]
    The only governing body of this great hobby that's sending me emails is the AMA. Are you getting any from anyone else?


    [Who would have ever thought it would be Proclaimed Legal to "Assassinate" American Citizens Suspected, not proven in a court of law, of Terrorism ... Compliments of your Government.]
    Sorry about your friend Anwar al-Awlaki. Hey man, nice shot!







    \" Fire in all the holes! \"
    β€œ Unlimited power is apt to corrupt the minds of those who possess it. ”
    William Pitt

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    RE: Regulation passed the House

    I see folks are griping about the stuff the US Executive Branch is doing,
    but as I pointed out a dozen pages ago,
    rather than complain about the lame (and unamerican) precedents being set these days
    we should harness the stupidity they have laid out, and use it to further our own goals-

    If the government is taking lower law writers (like states) to court, declaring they need to stay out of even legislating over stuff the feds claim is their domain (like say... I dont know, could be maybe like the border or something)... then we should get in on a piece of that action
    by taking local law writers to court
    when they try to legislate over stuff in the FAA's domain (like say... What goes on in the NAS).


    We might as well get some benefit from them lame precedents being set.





    Speaking of taking government to court,
    seems nobody is too interested in what IRA posted
    about the FAA 'inspecting" a model field that was under congress' protection.

    Guess you guys talk a good game just to argue againts folks on the internet,
    but when its time for demanding justice for models
    you guys balk, shy away, and pretend the federales didnt just do an unlawful act against us

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    RE: Regulation passed the House

    E NUT:
    I don't know where you're coming from ... I defend the AMA every chance I get... I don't trust Government, any Government ... Those that do will be enslaved by their Government. History has proven that ...

    Remember ... Every one of these Things we fly Comes with a Number, When the R/C Gods call that Number, it's going in a Garbage Bag, No Sniveling Allowed.
    P-47 Thunderbolt Brotherhood #24 & #43

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    RE: Regulation passed the House

    I'm confused. Didn't a President of the United States, part of the government, free the slaves about 149 years ago?? Does your distrust of "the government" extend to the fire department, police department, forest service, military, etc?? They are all part and parcel of "the government". So do you really distrust it all, or just parts??

    None of which has zip to do with the AMA or anything else even remotely related to the alleged subject material for this forum area.
    Team Futaba - RClipos.com

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    RE: Regulation passed the House


    ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R

    I'm confused. Didn't a President of the United States, part of the government, free the slaves about 149 years ago?? Does your distrust of "the government" extend to the fire department, police department, forest service, military, etc?? They are all part and parcel of "the government". So do you really distrust it all, or just parts??

    None of which has zip to do with the AMA or anything else even remotely related to the alleged subject material for this forum area.
    WHAT? Your Always Confooosed.
    Go Fly!
    Remember ... Every one of these Things we fly Comes with a Number, When the R/C Gods call that Number, it's going in a Garbage Bag, No Sniveling Allowed.
    P-47 Thunderbolt Brotherhood #24 & #43


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