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The real reason for the FAA hassle

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Old 04-21-2012, 07:59 PM
  #1
bufordbob
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Default The real reason for the FAA hassle

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...6.html?mod=WSJ

See the attached aricle and know that BIG BROTHER AND 1984 IS HERE.
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Old 04-22-2012, 07:54 AM
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Default RE: The real reason for the FAA hassle

There was an article, a year or so ago, about a local company which flies aircraft like that pictured in the link. One interesting thing. They were involved in searches for two different missing people, both of whom had not been found after several days of ground search. In each case they located the bodies within a couple of hours of flying time.
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Old 04-22-2012, 08:09 AM
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Default RE: The real reason for the FAA hassle

Pretty much true. As I have been saying since 2009, WE are not the main target. It is the multitude of private and civil agency users who want to be scooting around with a wide variety of sUAS that caused the FAA to take notice.

BTW - Dr. John Villasenor, who wrote the article in the LA Times as few weeks back, has had his eye opened to how our hobby is different from the true "drones"

http://amablog.modelaircraft.org/ama...re-not-drones/
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Old 04-22-2012, 09:19 AM
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Default RE: The real reason for the FAA hassle

Part of the real issue is; the FAA has gone around and issued almost carte blanche permission to use and abuse air space and then as an after thought has decided to attempt to legislate the AMA and its members to the ground.
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Old 04-22-2012, 09:27 AM
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Default RE: The real reason for the FAA hassle


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R

Pretty much true. As I have been saying since 2009, WE are not the main target. It is the multitude of private and civil agency users who want to be scooting around with a wide variety of sUAS that caused the FAA to take notice.

BTW - Dr. John Villasenor, who wrote the article in the LA Times as few weeks back, has had his eye opened to how our hobby is different from the true ''drones''

http://amablog.modelaircraft.org/ama...re-not-drones/
That's great, but my opinion of him hasn't changed.
He should have done the research before he submitted the article.
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Old 04-22-2012, 09:28 AM
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Default RE: The real reason for the FAA hassle


Quote:
ORIGINAL: bufordbob

Part of the real issue is; the FAA has gone around and issued almost carte blanche permission to use and abuse air space and then as an after thought has decided to attempt to legislate the AMA and its members to the ground.

I don't see it that way at all. The FAA's main focus is and has been the proliferation of civil and public agency sUAS. We are not and never have been the focus of these rules. To say otherwise is simply incorrect and not supported by the facts. Take for instance the ARC memo. It is something like 77 pages long. a whole 6 pages of that refers to models. The other 71 deal with civil and public agency users. So how is it that models are the issue?? They are not. Plain and simple.

The FAA has in fact, not been giving sUAS access willy-nilly. They have largely shut down the airspace for non-model sUAS. Ask people in that industry if you don't believe me.
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Old 04-22-2012, 10:38 AM
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Default RE: The real reason for the FAA hassle

If what you say is true........then why was the AMA even brought into the whole morass at all? BIG GOVERNMENT BREEDS BIG GOVERNMENT. I still submit they are watching us mere mortals.
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Old 04-22-2012, 10:53 AM
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Default RE: The real reason for the FAA hassle


Quote:
ORIGINAL: bufordbob

If what you say is true........then why was the AMA even brought into the whole morass at all? BIG GOVERNMENT BREEDS BIG GOVERNMENT. I still submit they are watching us mere mortals.

Because models are a small part of the total overall picture. But to us, they are the most important part. But the fact still remains that the FAA did not set out to regulated models as their prime focus. As Dave Mathewson put it "we are collateral damage."

But that same big government you seem to despise is the same one that wrote an exemption for models into the FAA re-authorization bill which will serve to protect us from what the FAA may have done to us.
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Old 04-22-2012, 12:03 PM
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Default RE: The real reason for the FAA hassle

Quote:
ORIGINAL: bufordbob

If what you say is true........then why was the AMA even brought into the whole morass at all? BIG GOVERNMENT BREEDS BIG GOVERNMENT. I still submit they are watching us mere mortals.
Bufordbob, I totally agree with you. I spent 41 years under some FAA rules, and 28 of those years fully under FAA rulings. (13 Military years not exempt but not really under the hammer either) The FAA is just like any government organization. It will make every effort to battle the weaker line, win there and move forward against whatever it can simply to be the hero of the day. Big corporations can usually buy the government entity out, yet sometimes the big business is behind those regulations that kill the smaller businesses' opposition. Big Business can then charge more for its services. AMA is definitely the smaller business. As far as the recent ruling for FAA to not get too mean with aeromodeling, well that can go away even faster than it came.

Ya' wanna see what is really going away? Just signed into law last month, HR 347.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v...irzg&vq=medium

And to you moderators that say this doesn't apply to RC or any aeromodeling, this is a CANCER that can and will spread like wildfire. There are no firefighters to put this one out or at least only one that I would hate to see it come to such. [:@]

Hang in there Bufordbob! You're right on! [8D]
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Old 04-22-2012, 12:53 PM
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Default RE: The real reason for the FAA hassle

Well, it is a bit off topic, but the ACLU is suspicious of the bill also (on a 1st amendment basis) so maybe you have a point. This bill, by the way, is largely bipartisan and represents the thinking of our elected representatives, not an agency.

www.aclu.org/blog/free-speech/how-big-deal-hr-347-criminalizing-protest-bill


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Old 04-22-2012, 06:06 PM
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Default RE: The real reason for the FAA hassle

There is a lot of big money wanting restrictions. In reality manned aviation for technical type services and or warfare is dead and there are a lot of pilots and aircraft manufacturers that want to delay the funeral or they will be out of business. We unfortunatly got dragged in- why because most of the technical knowledge for uav's has come out of recreational model flyers and the AMA was making a power play to limit competition to be the regulating body for model aviation... It nearly backfired on them.. They are the ones that brought recreational use into the spotlight with the FAA.. Ask around AMA headquarters about some of the demos they put on for the FAA well before any of the regs were even drafted (a 200mph turbine going vertical out of sight was one of the highlights). Before we were drug in to the mess the FAA just though we were a buch of guys playing with balsa toys.. After they saw the capabilites they were we need to get a handle on that those guys could cause some serious problems.
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Old 04-22-2012, 06:30 PM
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Default RE: The real reason for the FAA hassle

Great post, Hossfly! 

We need fewer regs, and smaller government. The things they and corporations are getting away with is unconscionable.
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Old 04-22-2012, 08:21 PM
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Default RE: The real reason for the FAA hassle

Mr. AV8R-I do indeed despise big government and all that it and its supporters attempt to throttle the common citizen with. Didnt really want to start a political battle but ..the reality is that we(US citizens) are governed by an elitist corp of "Royals" regardless whether they are Republicans or Democrats.
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Old 04-22-2012, 08:27 PM
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Default RE: The real reason for the FAA hassle

No surprise since DHS is taking steps that are quite spooky.

Why would the Department of HOMEland Security need these vehicles along with hundreds of thousands of rounds of 40 S&W ammunition? (US Government issue is in 40 S&W), or have TSA riding buses and inspecting peoples bags at random.


The drones are probably for the same reason as these..........http://yedies.blogspot.com/2012/04/h...-move.html?m=1
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Old 04-22-2012, 08:33 PM
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Default RE: The real reason for the FAA hassle

I'm not talking about the politics, just your statement that the FAA set out to get us. They simply did not. They are set on regulating the huge number of commercial and public agency sUAS that want to do who knows what. We are just being dragged along for the ride. For the record I am no great fan of government regulation, but I also do not think all regulation is bad, the trick is always in where to draw the line. I'm betting most of you are happy that there are regulations governing pilot training so that not just anyone can jump into a plane and go flying, with perhaps your family on board. The problem is once the government starts regulating it gets too easy to keep going. So stopping terrorists is a great idea, but really, does Grandma need to be frisked to fly out to see the grandkids? So again, the problem is where you draw the line and how to stop the over reaching.
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:55 AM
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Default RE: The real reason for the FAA hassle


Quote:
ORIGINAL: bufordbob

If what you say is true........then why was the AMA even brought into the whole morass at all? BIG GOVERNMENT BREEDS BIG GOVERNMENT. I still submit they are watching us mere mortals.
While I agree that big government breeds big government the problem is more that drone companies, and especially the small UAV makers, brought this problem on us by screaming for more freedom for themsleves. Rag media spying on celebrities, realtors generating advertising material, and other such obnoxious commercial use of OUR RC equipment led to this big brother atmosphere. The few who refuse to live by any rules for their own PROFIT or FUN have caused this problem.

Think about it. We have done just fine with the FAA for years and years. But after a few years of "FPV" running amok we now have regulations. At least they were toned down to kind of exempt those of us who still follow the rules, and still have fun doing it.
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Old 04-23-2012, 09:10 AM
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Default RE: The real reason for the FAA hassle


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Desertlakesflying

No surprise since DHS is taking steps that are quite spooky.

Why would the Department of HOMEland Security need these vehicles along with hundreds of thousands of rounds of 40 S&W ammunition? (US Government issue is in 40 S&W), or have TSA riding buses and inspecting peoples bags at random.


The drones are probably for the same reason as these..........http://yedies.blogspot.com/2012/04/h...-move.html?m=1
Some of my customers include Homeland and the DoD. Having Secret clearance of the DoD I can tell you this: You will never know unless you have a) security clearance and b) Need to know. (Yes, you need both) A lot was done after 9/11 you will never know and (hopefully) never find out. And I say this because it would mean that things never got that bad:-)

Thousand of people go to work every day with the sole purpose to keep people in this country safe. Safe from enemies within (and they are here) and also from enemies abroad.

Can we live w/o regulations? Of course not. W/o regulations we would be using asbestos, painting with led, the dentist would stick his hand w/o gloves in your mouth, scaffolding would collapse, and by now in many cities you could not breath... As long as humans run companies, yes, we need regulations. We are greedy, and we cannot help ourselves.

We currently are in this "mess" as somebody called it because of the drones. They were used very successfully by the military, and they have one problem. They need airspace to fly in, and that is regulated. So, technology is forcing the regulators to do something about this new "toy" (tool would be a better name) so they can share the airspace. This "tools" did drag us into this mess.

This is a billion dollar bonanza for many but there are many issues that are new (as this technology is) and they will have to figure out how to keep the devices from crashing into buildings, into other unmanned devices or aircraft, and falling onto property and people. This is a brand new ballgame... The technology is here, you have manufacturers ready, applications ready and new ones being developed every minute, but they still have no airspace available to fly in.

So the first thing the FAA did is pretty much, get us out of the way. Not much has changed for us, that I know so far. I do not envy those that will have to regulate this new technology...
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Old 04-23-2012, 03:14 PM
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Default RE: The real reason for the FAA hassle

To ;
2walla I suspected for awhile that the AMA thing was kind of self serving in regards to its self congratulatory accolades on the bill exemptions(ITSELF). I am naturally suspicious about any public or private agency. Can you get me some hard facts about the demo factors with the FAA? Not trying to flame the AMA but would like to know more about this topic. For instance .....why was no one ever critical of all of the utube videos about guys flying all over cities ,buildings ,landmarks large structures etc,etc?
BTW I would like to mention that all of the responses to my post were pertinent and very well meant (and intelligent).
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Old 04-23-2012, 05:32 PM
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Default RE: The real reason for the FAA hassle

The fact is we live by the new Golden Rule, "Them as has the gold, they makes the rules." It has been that way throughout human history.
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Old 04-24-2012, 06:17 AM
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Default RE: The real reason for the FAA hassle

You know it is not good when the top article on The Drudge Report is a huge eye with the caption "Eye In The Sky"

the link goes to this article: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...sites-U-S.html

The use of civilian/goverment drones over US cities/towms has the perfect potential to be demogauged into something that could have collateral damage to model aviation.

My position (flame suit on) is it is the best interest of the AMA to distance itself even more from autonomous flight and FPV.

Brad
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Old 04-27-2012, 10:01 PM
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Default RE: The real reason for the FAA hassle

Quote:
My position (flame suit on) is it is the best interest of the AMA to distance itself even more from autonomous flight and FPV.
interesting
You cite a Privacy problem regarding Civil & Public users,
and rather than saying hobbyists need to distance themselves from that Privacy issue,
or that hobbyists need to distance themselves from from Cicil & Public use,
you instead pick on an unrelated situation regarding how models are controlled
rather than the Wrong things those models do and the Wrong folks doing it.

So its just fine by your approach
if the non-hobbyist privacy violators used only LOS to cause a privacy ruckus
... as long as those civil/public privacy violators dont cause their problems by FPV/Autonomous
then their problems (and collateral damage we hobbyists suffer) is ... ok?

I disagree.

We are hobbyists-
not Public big-brother spy drones so the government can watch innocent populous,
and not the Civil paparazzi / IDTheft / Dataminers invading peoples privacy,
we are hobbyists that PLAY with toy airplanes for recreation by law

The problem with a PeepingTom using a rc helicopter to look in windows with a vid recorder
is NOT whether he is doing it LOS or FPV,
but that he is a peeping tom looking in windows.... LOS dont make it ok
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Old 04-28-2012, 10:15 AM
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Default RE: The real reason for the FAA hassle


Quote:
ORIGINAL: bradpaul

...
My position (flame suit on) is it is the best interest of the AMA to distance itself even more from autonomous flight and FPV.

Brad
I don't see how the AMAcan distance itself from either flying mode. Both flight modes have a hobby angle to them so another approach is necessary. They already have some harsh rules for FPV (Buddy box and LOS). Autonomous would require a strong and effective override which presents a technical challenge. As long as LOS can be maintained and controlled, it may be feasible.



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Old 04-30-2012, 12:06 PM
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Default RE: The real reason for the FAA hassle

So, where's the beef? Are you all saying that you can't fly your model planes at the local field without a pilot's license and medical certificate? You guys are making all this out to be more than what it really is. Nothing will be any different for us when the FAA gets done with the new rules. The .40 sized trainers will still be flying, the jets will still be flying, the big gassers will still be flying, and you can still stick a camera on your electric foamy and have a ball. So, what has changed? Why be so anxious to sell that turbine, when there's really no need to, because nothing that is coming out is going to stop you from flying it?

NS
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Old 05-02-2012, 10:36 PM
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Default RE: The real reason for the FAA hassle

Actually it does not really fully protect R/C models. Caveats in the language allow the FAA and indirectly TSA to still do what they want, For instance a regulation can be written that covers all use of airspace equally, including R/C models. What, in my opinion, was done prevents the FAA from lumping R/C model aircraft with UAVs, RPVs, etc., and helps prevent the FAA from writing overly restrictive rules that apply to only R/C model aircraft.

Before 9/11, there was less attention on the entire airspace below something like fifteen hundred feet, other than around airports and densely populated areas.
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Old 05-04-2012, 04:10 AM
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Default RE: The real reason for the FAA hassle

I see all the "Sovereign Citizen Flyers" are present in this thread......................
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