mongo

My Feedback: (15)

only one change would go a LONG way towards fixing the leader member program.
remove the ability to request/nominate one's self. take it to purely an honor bestowed on one by one's peers.

DadsToysBG

My Feedback: (35)

We all have future LM's at all our fields. Just watch and see who gets up when a visitor come s to say hello. Or the person that wants to teach because he enjoys doing it. Or the person at a club meeting that is willing to find out the answer to a question.
Mongo you may have a valid point, but you must remember you have to get three people to sign for you. Also if this is what you want to do you have to put forth the effort to get the paper work in order, get the people to sign and state why you want to be a LM, then it is sent to the VP of your area for approval.
Now clubs could and should ask a member that they think would be good to do this but it his decision.
When I do these programs it cost me money to close the store. I also bring indoor flyers to the schools for hands on knowing I may not take them back in one piece.
It costs me gas to go and talk to clubs. Dennis

Hossfly

mongo, you make me feel good. My Leader was bestowed on me by AMA back in 1964, because I promoted AMA and was a Contest Director which followed the book procedures.

OTOH the Leader application now has to have 3 recommendations. Just who are these folks? Are they NOT his/her peers? I am definitely of the opinion that the AMA Hierarchy may well be prone to overlook the best of the best especially when their preferred is, IMO, more of following the company line than actually promoting model aviation.

Dad's toysBG has an excellent point. I could write a short book on that one. The "Big Boys" seem to leave the visitor all on his own. Very sad. Some days when the visitors are showing up, guess who is the welcoming committee of ONE!

DadsToysBG

My Feedback: (35)

Hoss has a point. We have all been asked. how high/ how fast/ how much/I'd crash. Do you as a hobbyist take the time to answer these questions to promote the hobby.
I've had three people in the store today asking the same questions. They look up and see the planes and shake their heads. Not one sale but they went out the door with a better understanding of the hobby and I sent them with flyers for our events in the hope they come out and see the planes fly.
Am I promoting the store or the hobby? I hope both. If I sell the P-51 only the store, if I sell a trainer both. One sale for the store but I never get him back. Sell the trainer and i get a customer for a long time.
A lot of my customers are not AMA members. They fly in their back yards. To me it's all part of the hobby. If they ask I'll promote the AMA and give them a old magazine to take home. If they live out of town I'll look up the closest club and give them a name and number.
When you have a visitor at your field take the time to talk to them. Show them your planes, let them hold your radio. If your getting ready to fly tell them to have a seat and watch. You'll be amazed how good you feel afterwards. Dennnis

JW0311

I will continue to look in on RCU for help and posts like the one above. I cannot say that I've been refused help when I've asked and I've been most appreciative of the fact that every one here has been willing to help but, as far as the AMA is concerned. I'm not at all convinced. Just my opinion.

phlpsfrnk

James,
All we can ask is that you keep an open mind because the AMA is a good organization. There are two sides to every issue and every one that is interested in the issues should endeavor to look into both sides and decide for themselves.

Regards
Frank

phlpsfrnk

Dennis, I have always greeted newcomers at the field and encouraged any interests in aviation and if I can’t adequately answer someone’s questions I try to find the answers for them. I have always promoted the AMA and what it stands for since I became aware of it in the 70s. For the longest time I thought that one had to become a LM only if they wanted to be involved in the organization at the national level. When I approached a prominent Leader Member of my local club about the Leader Member program he was surprised that I was not already in the program and immediately encouraged me to apply and endorsed my application. It was, for the most part, his encouragement that decided it for me. In light of some of the sarcasms I’ve received because of my acceptance as a LM and comments like the quote below I find myself questioning my decision.

“what is real ironic is Frank a fairly new "Leader Member" was assisted in the process by yours truly, and I even volountered to sign the application.�

What I find truly “ironic� is that we are discussing this in an open forum on RCU instead of on the AMA’s closed LM forum where apparently personal attacks and the denigration of others are allowed to stand;

http://www.modelaircraft.org/forums/fb.ashx?m=14021

Apparently, to the detriment of the AMA, there are a few LM individuals that think being a LM is a competition. I do not like airing these things in a public forum but am I the only LM to speak out against such actions?
I do not need the title to continue to do what I have always done. Please excuse my ranting in response to your post because I consider you one of the good guys but I had to get that off my chest.

Respectfully
Frank

DadsToysBG

My Feedback: (35)

No comment from me. This is one reason I generally stay out of this forum. I will read it but not post. I have no interest in getting drawn into personality's.
I have traveled from coast to coast and when I go to a AMA field to say "Hi' I always friends. Dennnis

H5487

Well, I can see that y'all wasted no time in hijacking my thread away from the original topic (my comparison of the AMA forum on RCU to the Jerry Springer show, in case you forgot) and turning it into yet another AMA-bashing thread. Now it's aimed at Leader-Members.

While the AMA forum does have some supporters, it seems to be predominately inhabited by those who hate the AMA. If you hate the AMA that much, why do you spend so much time hanging out here? To paraphrase somebody else who posted on another AMA forum thread, isn't this like going to Tupperware Parties so you can tell everyone there that you hate Tupperware Parties?

!!!

Harvey

DadsToysBG

My Feedback: (35)

Sorry Harvey as in all conversations things tend to take on it's own life. As on Jerry's show it starts one way and goes another. Dennis

phlpsfrnk

My apologies also Harvey.

Regards
Frank . . . another AMA Leader Member

PS: I've never watched Jerry Springer.

DadsToysBG

My Feedback: (35)

Well back to work on the wing for the kids. Have to test it tomorrow and see how well they did.
See Harvey how easy it is to go off topic. LOL Dennis

JohnShe

Harvey I seem to think things drifted quite a bit.  And, it is kinda natural in a free form discussion of this type.  But, I think the Leader Member thing kinda illustrates your point.  Although there were no chairs flung about, I sensed a disturbance in the force with the intensity of some of the comments.  Yet, some fascinating points were made.  The thing is, after searching the AMA website, I still don't have a clue what a leader Member does.  Nor do I know if my local club has one.  We have a big event this weekend and I plan to investigate.  Should be fun.

phlpsfrnk

Check the membership manual page 30.

Regards
Frank

JW0311

Harvey, I apologize for commenting on the leader member thing. I feel like a leader of any organization should conduct themselves in a manner that represents the organization and I see that there are leader members here that do that quite well. I did not mean to highjack the thread and perhaps your right in that this wasn't the place for that comment.

James

KidEpoxy

dunno, I got banned without them saying why or what I did wrong,
and when I asked a moderator why, they never replied.
I can only imagine if they told me what I was accused of they are afraid I would just show I didnt DO that.
The closest I can figure,
Maybe I was banned for civilly asking Muroc not to insult folks in a thread he started with an insult.
- a violation of the Dont Disagree with Muroc rule that only mod muroc enforced.
(oddly enough, iirc it was a thread asking we all get along, yet he included the cheap shot
.. much like a recent thread here praising the staff but had to have a 'cheap' shot in the op)

Seems the way AMA chose to run the board
is using Stealth Bans to prevent the innocent from having a defense,
or even knowing what they are accused of

Here, you can get deleted and yelled at if you refer to look away from a problem hoping it just goes away as 'ostriching'
as in You people can ostrich if you want, but ...
or You ostriches will be disappointed when the problem doesnt go away by ignoring it
... seems posters on this board find that language too harsh/offending/attacking/vitriolous

KidEpoxy

Harvey
Dont you consider
that the reason you see the forum as full of folks that hate the AMA
is because you consider trying to make the AMA better is 'hating' it.


If I say what pres DM said (run the mag more like a business), is that me hating the AMA?
Cause we saw DM post that hate here... is DM one of the 'haters' you see everywhere?

Is wanting the AMA to run the magazine to at least break even 'hating' the ama?
Is MichealR just another AMA hater?

Is pointing out that Paintball is not a violation of the AMA rules... is that 'hating' the AMA?

Is asking about something that looks like a Conflict of Interest 'hating' the AMA in your world
... and is the AMA pres stating there WAS a CoI just demonstrating how much he hates the AMA?

If muroc and KE point out the same problems with PPP that need to be fixed or scrap PPP,
is that just more AMA hate by muroc?



Perhaps the reason you see so many AMA haters
is cause you read posts by Prez DM, MichealR, TimJ etc
and just brush them aside as yet more AMA Haters like the folks that agree with them

H5487

No Kid. I'm talking about those regulars on this forum who's only apparent reason for posting is to bash the AMA. They offer no CONSTRUCTIVE criticism or solutions to the problem, only condemnation of the organization and anyone who has a different opinion than theirs. They're obviously not interested in an open exchange of ideas. Betterment of the organization doesn't seem to be their goal as much as total abolishment is.

Harvey

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Who are those regulars???

Most everyone here either offers alternate ideas for consideration or says accept AMA’s divinity unquestionably and follow along... That seems to be the contention/strategy...either blindly accept and follow along or be labeled a AMA hater...

JohnShe

First, I don't think anyone in this form blindly accepts "The Divinity" of the AMA. That statement is absurd. I was going to advise you that if you are unhappy with the way the AMAis going then participate, become a committee member, run for elected office do something positive.

However, I was thrown for a loop over this Leader Member thing. I was unable to get a clear picture of what a leader member does. But, good old Frank advised me to read the member manual. Which I did, much to my shock. It seems you can't do anything in the AMAunless you are a leader member. Every search I did on Leader member turned up statements like:

To be eligible to discharge the duties of AMA President or Executive Vice President, a nominee must be a Leader Member...

or

To be eligible to discharge the duties of an elected AMA officer other than President or Executive Vice President, a nominee must be a Leader member...

or

Recommendations for Bylaws changes ... the amendment(s) must be ratified before adoption by a mail ballot to Leader members....


It just goes on like that. It appears that as a plain old member, my opinion is worthless.

Hossfly

JohmShe, you and I again disagree. You are doing a good thing in looking into what is going on, however don't be disappointed if after some years, you get really active and ionvolved, in the AMA structure, then you have some differences of opinions and when you try to seek support for your ideas, you find that a whole new crop of folks pop up and start slinging mud to you as an "AMA Hater". It will happen and the more correct you are, thee more poop will be cast on you. BTDT. If you are aware of the AMA elections of 2011, therein lies a real story, and not just mine. [:-]

There are some good and some bad things and a number of things inbetween good and bad. Of course there are differences of opinion when it comes to defining good and bad. Two countries at war certainly define differently. Two politicians trying to gain a particular office certainly have different values until one gains the office.

Those Bylaws were established back in 1935, There have been changes but the basics remain.

The Leader member was a good idea back when there were no computers, etc. Those that helped with spreading the AMA word and worked adequately to become a Leader were a big help. Remember that snail mail was about the only communication available. I well remember when my mom tried calling my Dad who was working in the North-Eastern states after the war was over. It was expensive and usually took a wait of an hour to 3-4 hours to get a "Long Distance" call in. We still lived in the home place near Livingston TX. Times were very hard as compared to today. Communication needed such as the Leader Member to assist in spreading AMA.

For a long time after 1950 or so, it was rather difficult to define a Leader Member. Contest Directors became Leader Members after one year, because they showed above average interest in modeling. That lasted until the late "80s. It ceased because by then many CDs did a contest, then left AMA and moved on. Now one has to make and display some above interest in AMA and modeling to get the title. Why not some recognition for those willing to do something to support and/or advance the sport?

There are numerous areas where even the newbie can do significant items. Club Office - a big one if the person is willing to work. Then there is Associate Vice President, Contest Coordinator, Contest Director, Safety Officer, then maybe on to District Vice President. These are all volunteer positions and are sorely needed by those that will dig into the books and learn things. That is important because at clubs, so many of the club officers/workers are simply doing their best to keep the club operaating and that takes away valuable building and flying time. They do it for YOU! [8D]

Unfortunately the AMA Hiearchy fails to see much of that lower echelon activity, thus the lower level folks receive very little recognition from either the AMA or the club members. Positions are waiting for LEADERS!

Now, JohnShe, here YOU have identified something that you think needs some work. Excellent call, and a man dedicated will usually be eons ahead of someone NOT dedicated. You have a sorely needed and very big job awaiting YOU. Best of luck, MAN!

JohnShe

I believe that the ancient Chinese Curse says; "May you live in interesting times." I am retired now, I don't wanna have to work any harder that I want to when I want to. I absolutely do not ever ever wish to become a leader. I just wanna have fun. Isn't that how the song goes "Old geezers just wanna have fun?" I am not asking for anything more that that.

I can get over the shock.

TexasAirBoss

My Feedback: (22)

When someone boasts about the ordinary then I know I am reading the words of a very small man.








(not meant to be directed at mongo)

H5487

Who were you directing it at?

Harvey

KidEpoxy

Harvey
Does it really matter WHO he is aiming that shot at?
If it turns out he was aiming that shot at Rich Hanson,
why... thats... doh... HATER!!!!
HATER!
Ban the HATER for his personal attack of our beloved RH!

However, if the target of such diabolical wretchedly abusive obvious slur
is someone here that folk disagree with,
wellllll... lets all just nod&wink and let the abuse of that poster stay
because if we disagree with what they say then its ok to break the rules and attack them
[&:][:@]


considering the subject of the thread
its just another shot at someone,
which nicely demonstrates the OP's observation.. kinda like BP demonstrating my point earlier,
or pretty much all of the recent posts in the thread that was supposed to be about the magazine.
A decent discussion of subjects, examining different views, cannot go on here (nor AMA's board) without the same of gang of thugs attacking and baiting a lock of subjects they want censored but the organizations (RCU & AMA) dont have that censorship in their policy.

If someone talks about ideas to fix the magazine,
same ole gang disrupts it as Censoring By Thuggery.
If someone trys to have a technical discussion on what about metal props necessitates a ban ,
the same gang of thugs disrupts it with page after page of trying to make it personal.

OP compares the forums to Jerry Springer,
but its a matter of suppressing opposing views that drives the vitriol... its not Color or Creed or Deed,
but different VIEWS and ideas on how to make AMA better that instills the animosity that drives offtopic attack posts.

And THAT is where we drag the board operators in-
if the board rules say All Views Tolerated,
then it is the ones trying to censor and suppress other posters that are the rule breakers by agenda
... regardless of the wafer thing excuse for a veil they put on their attacks.
And when we see a Moderator lock a thread when a poster asked the AMA president a question the Pres SAID TO ASK,
well, thats not such a good thing...
Gotta wonder whats going on there with that mod,
except Wondering whats going on is deemed 'Hating' the ama by folks that like to name call rather than discuss