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  1. #201
    littlecrankshaf's Avatar
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    RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum

    Arbo,

    As someone that had posts removed for simply stating my opinions about some of AMA's policies, I really can't agree...but you are right, if we had just posted there with praise of AMA and the important few and just sang kumbaya my lord, the forum would have continued indefinitely.

    My contention (not to be confused with anyone else's)is that the AMA forum's true purpose was to project AMA as a harmonious and happy organization that is well received and will therefore be fit to take on the future task of being the model aviation's version of the FAA.
    It is very important to understand that Jesus not only died for our sins but died because of our sins...even harder to understand now, exactly what were those sins???

  2. #202

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    RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum


    ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf
    As someone that had posts removed for simply stating my opinions about some of AMA's policies, I really can't agree...
    I understand that it is your opinion that posts that fell inside of the rules were removed. As I have shown, posts that violated the rules were removed, posts that responded to removed posts were removed, not posts that followed the rules and in a civil manner addressed differences with the AMA and it's policies. There are plenty of those that can be found in older threads there.

    Having been 'inside', I find your contention to be false. They didn't have a problem with questions about policies or the organization, or differing views. They merely wanted the discourse kept at a high level, which means civil, and not with negative intent. I don't understand why that is/was something that was so hard for a handful of people to understand or go along with.

    Looking back through old postings, I find it hard to find anything of yours that was put in the recycle bin, but that might have been prior to me when messages were deleted outright and disappeared from even the admins view. But to be honest I recall removing and/or editing messages from a certain poster that attacked you and your club far more often than ever having to deal with you, and you know who that was as he was always bringing up your club. Should I have let that stand because he was a paying member and thus 'owned' the forum?



  3. #203
    littlecrankshaf's Avatar
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    RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum

    ORIGINAL: Arbo



    *But to be honest I recall removing and/or editing messages from a certain poster that attacked you and your club far more often than ever having to deal with you, and you know who that was as he was always bringing up your club. * Should I have let that stand because he was a paying member and thus 'owned' the forum? * *


    Yep, and in the interest of fairness, that offensive person should have been perma-banned. Why he was not is a big indication of what the real problem is there. I think what we are all talking about is fairness in the final analysis.
    It is very important to understand that Jesus not only died for our sins but died because of our sins...even harder to understand now, exactly what were those sins???

  4. #204

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    RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum


    ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf
    Yep, and in the interest of fairness, that offensive person should have been perma-banned. Why he was not is a big indication of what the real problem is there. I think what we are all talking about is fairness in the final analysis.
    As I have mentioned, banning didn't start out as something a moderator could do. It was passed up the chain. Eventually they put in that function, but moderators still could not permaban anyone, only set a timeframe (though you could set it out years). The 'rules' stated that once banned, if the rules were violated again, it was to be a permaban. This was not enforced at the higher levels. There were users that were banned 3 or 4 times for 30 days a pop, but not permabanned. I agree with you on this, and disagree with those in charge not enforcing the permaban 'rule'. Had they done it, a lot of trouble would have been avoided and things would have smoothed out a LOT faster.


  5. #205
    FILE IFR 's Avatar
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    RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum


    Here is a cut from a comment made by a moderator on the AMA forum..... "Honestly, if I was on the EC or Pres of the AMA, I'd do all I could to get most of you out of the AMA for good, as you do nothing but put forth a bad showing of what the AMA is about, and drive away more people that you bring in."

    .... not very good leadership skills, IMHO of course.
    Mike * Intercepting The Localizer* AMA# 365566
    Bud Nosen C-310 Club #32 * J.P.O. Member 2302

  6. #206
    littlecrankshaf's Avatar
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    RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum


    ORIGINAL: FILE IFR


    Here is a cut from a comment made by a moderator on the AMA forum..... ''Honestly, if I was on the EC or Pres of the AMA, I'd do all I could to get most of you out of the AMA for good, as you do nothing but put forth a bad showing of what the AMA is about, and drive away more people that you bring in.''

    .... not very good leadership skills, IMHO of course.
    Man, who would say something like that???? Oh, that was Arbo...

    That one statement embodies the major problem with the mindset of the most loyal AMAers... It's more about control and growing the AMA than what it is that AMA does...err...should be doing...
    It is very important to understand that Jesus not only died for our sins but died because of our sins...even harder to understand now, exactly what were those sins???

  7. #207

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    RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum


    ORIGINAL: FILE IFR
    Here is a cut from a comment made by a moderator on the AMA forum..... "Honestly, if I was on the EC or Pres of the AMA, I'd do all I could to get most of you out of the AMA for good, as you do nothing but put forth a bad showing of what the AMA is about, and drive away more people that you bring in."

    .... not very good leadership skills, IMHO of course.
    Link? Context?

    ORIGINAL: LCS
    Man, who would say something like that???? Oh, that was Arbo...

    That one statement embodies the major problem with the mindset of the most loyal AMAers... It's more about control and growing the AMA than what it is that AMA does...err...should be doing...
    Was it me? I'd need to see a link to verify. But Icould see myself saying that in the context of talking to some of the people that did get banned over and over and kept breaking the rules, because all of that nonsense and bickering that went on over there DID drive a lot of people away.

    But again, as has been shown, it has nothing to do with control. Nor does it have anything to do with loyalty.

  8. #208
    FILE IFR 's Avatar
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    RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum

    Yes it was you.

    You posted it as a closing statement before locking the thread......
    Mike * Intercepting The Localizer* AMA# 365566
    Bud Nosen C-310 Club #32 * J.P.O. Member 2302

  9. #209
    littlecrankshaf's Avatar
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    RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum


    ORIGINAL: Arbo


    ORIGINAL: FILE IFR
    Here is a cut from a comment made by a moderator on the AMA forum..... ''Honestly, if I was on the EC or Pres of the AMA, I'd do all I could to get most of you out of the AMA for good, as you do nothing but put forth a bad showing of what the AMA is about, and drive away more people that you bring in.''

    .... not very good leadership skills, IMHO of course.
    Link? *Context?

    ORIGINAL: LCS
    Man, who would say something like that???? Oh, that was Arbo...*

    That one statement embodies the major problem with the mindset of the most loyal AMAers... It's more about control and growing the AMA than what it is that AMA does...err...should be doing...
    Was it me? * I'd need to see a link to verify. * *But I*could see myself saying that in the context of talking to some of the people that did get banned over and over and kept breaking the rules, because all of that nonsense and bickering that went on over there DID drive a lot of people away. * ***

    But again, as has been shown, it has nothing to do with control. * Nor does it have anything to do with loyalty. * *
    Arbo,

    I call baloney on that. Just about every statement of the loyal controllers include a statement about how that forum "Decreases interest of membership with AMA by reading there" or some similar crap.

    Here's some context for you...AMA is more concerned about growing AMA than promoting the hobby! Put that statement anywhere you want it and I'll always admit to what I meant by it...by saying the same exact words again>>> Theres some context for you...
    It is very important to understand that Jesus not only died for our sins but died because of our sins...even harder to understand now, exactly what were those sins???

  10. #210
    FILE IFR 's Avatar
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    RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum

    Arbo, you posted it on Tuesday, Aug. 21st.

    .... Just a few days ago lol
    Mike * Intercepting The Localizer* AMA# 365566
    Bud Nosen C-310 Club #32 * J.P.O. Member 2302

  11. #211

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    RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum


    ORIGINAL: FILE IFR

    Yes it was you.

    You posted it as a closing statement before locking the thread......
    I never said it wasn't. And as I said in my response to LCS, in context, as I explained to LCS, I stand by it. The user I responded to (and several others) did nothing but break the rules then scream that they never broke the rules, it was a conspiracy, we were out to get them. As shown, this was nonsense. It was about enforcing the rules to have a civil and positive environment. Nothing more.

    Of note, all the admins have been online and read that message, none has removed it.

    ORIGINAL: LCS
    Just about every statement of the loyal controllers include a statement about how that forum "Decreases interest of membership with AMA by reading there" or some similar crap.

    Here's some context for you...AMA is more concerned about growing AMA than promoting the hobby!

    If you have been reading what I have posted, you will have read that I often disagreed with the AMA, often disagreed with those in charge at the forum, heck you can see me arguing against the then President in the screen shots in terms of just banning users when I said they don't break the rules most of the time. But the actions of a few on that forum in terms of bickering, recreational arguing and general negative attitude DID drive people away. Not just normal members, but District VPs and AVPs and others. They didn't want the drama, so they either stayed away or quit checking in. Many of them came and saw what a handful of members was doing and called Dave and called for the forum to be shut down due to it. There is a reason why the AMA sub forum here and on RCG get little activity.... because most of the members don't want the drama, the negative attitudes, the confrontational postings, they want to build and fly and share their hobby with others, learn new stuff about the hobby and help out others.

    As for your last statement, I would tend to agree. I mean, they put together MA, and it goes to the members, that's kinda like preaching to the choir. It should be out on the news stand where non AMA members can see it and get it. There should be a short one or two page newsletter that they send to members that meets with the 501(c) status, not the magazine. Use our dues to send a copy of each issue as it comes out to every middle school library, get it to those that are not already members. Let them see what the hobby is about, what you can do in and with the hobby, spark some interest, spark imaginations. With the million channels out there, figure out a forumat and get nationals and other big competitions and RC gatherings on video in an interesting manner and get those on the air. There is a lot that could be done or at least looked into, and I don't see much of it going on.





  12. #212
    littlecrankshaf's Avatar
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    RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum

    Arbo,

    You may not believe this but I have been following along...and I do see where you made some effort to temper some of the typical mindsets. I guess sometimes you are like most every human in one respect...You get all fired up and before you know you have said something that maybe you wish you hadn't... And like most others you tend find some way to rationalize it away instead of just admitting, accepting and making the mistake known as a mistake... and then restating your real position.


    What you probably don't know is I kinda like you...but I poke at you just to see if the real Arbo will come through... After all this is said and done, I firmly believe you did the best job you could... I hope in the end you take something positive away from this experience.

    As AMA members job one is to promote model aviation...if we just do that AMA will be perfectly fine...we need not worry about the size or numbers one little bit...
    It is very important to understand that Jesus not only died for our sins but died because of our sins...even harder to understand now, exactly what were those sins???

  13. #213
    wahoo's Avatar
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    RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum


    ORIGINAL: Hossfly


    ORIGINAL: JimB
    ORIGINAL: Hossfly

    ORIGINAL: Wahoo
    Think of it this way for a second, you lay out the funds to open your own forum, then you allow whoever wants to join and they start bashing you and the way you choose to run YOUR site. I can GUARENTEE that you would use your own moderation powers to only hear what you want to hear, and basically that would only be the sunshine being blown up yer arse.
    Maybe as a general rule or thesis, Wahoo, you are correct. However IMO, I see things a bit differently.

    The Academy of Model Aeronautics, AMA, is a membership organization and is NOT using its ''own'' money to operate the forum. It is using funds from the entire spectrum of membership. Those that do not use the forum pay the same fare as those that do. Kind of like we ''taxpayers'' that support the grandiose living styles of our government people and then we have to abide by their rules while we commoners have absolutely nothing to say about those rules.

    Therefore I have very little respect for those that make rules, especially rules that I have to assist with their financial standards, that are designed to zip my lip and action, while blowing the smoke upward. In addition I do not care much for those that, simply to further their own status, condone the rule-makers' actions.

    In my 76 years I have tried to be understanding of those that I associate with reference their own problems and situations. OTOH, those that try to use me, mine, or my situations simply to further their own personal status, well, they don't find me to be a friendly ally.
    As for AMA I have served long and hard for their positions and programs, I have donated far more than ''dues'' and I don't wave a flag for their intent that I see building bigger each passing day which is less than the support of aeromodeling. 'Nuff said for now! [8D]

    Hoss, what you quoted was not my post, it was words from wahoo that he posted in a reply to me. I did not write that. You could consider editing your post to reflect that.

    It was done on the original.. I APOLOGIZE Big Time. To make things worse I was not even drinking any good drink when I did that. Really, I am sorry!
    Excuse me ???

    http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11203910

    When ever I feel like expressing my own opinion... I just ask an RCU moderator. Better safe than sorry I always say.

  14. #214
    littlecrankshaf's Avatar
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    RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum

    Hmmm..it seems a fellow, Ctrout or something like that, on the other RC website is saying that a "group" of guys banned together and made posts in an effort to get certain reactions from some of the other members in the AMA's forum so the moderators could then take actions against those guys... I asked him to clarify but he didn't seem amenable to that. Maybe you guys should look in and see if that's how you interpret that post as well...
    It is very important to understand that Jesus not only died for our sins but died because of our sins...even harder to understand now, exactly what were those sins???

  15. #215
    Bill G's Avatar
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    RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum


    ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf

    Here's some context for you...AMA is more concerned about growing AMA than promoting the hobby! Put that statement anywhere you want it and I'll always admit to what I meant by it...by saying the same exact words again>>> There's some context for you...
    Yes, and that's why I didn't join this year, for the first time since being in the hobby. They took on one too many questionable affiliations, along with promoting organizations with questionable integrity. I knew better than to mention those concerns in an actual AMA discussion thread and expect it to be acknowledged.

  16. #216
    littlecrankshaf's Avatar
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    RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum


    ORIGINAL: Bill G


    ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf

    Here's some context for you...AMA is more concerned about growing AMA than promoting the hobby! Put that statement anywhere you want it and I'll always admit to what I meant by it...by saying the same exact words again>>> There's some context for you...
    Yes, and that's why I didn't join this year, for the first time since being in the hobby. They took on one too many questionable affiliations, along with promoting organizations with questionable integrity. I knew better than to mention those concerns in an actual AMA discussion thread and expect it to be acknowledged.
    Bill G,

    I think you are right.


    There is now an outright admission, on another RC forum, of a group of guys that would jump on someone like you on the forums. I often suspected it but was hard to prove.
    It is very important to understand that Jesus not only died for our sins but died because of our sins...even harder to understand now, exactly what were those sins???

  17. #217
    SPLIT S's Avatar
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    RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum

    175 posts here. All about a discussion forum. Over on jets there is a thread with 7 posts ,5 from overseas about the passing of Neil Armstrong. Something very wrong with this. Don't know if another thread exists on another forum and don't want to imply all here don't respect and understand what Mr. Armstrong accomplished but still, something seems very wrong. Maybe the news that Snooki gave birth means more...
    Hi Dad, Doing anything? Want to go to the field?

  18. #218

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    RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum

    Perhaps the AMA being related to this Hobby has somethng to do with it?

  19. #219

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    RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum


    ORIGINAL: SPLIT S

    175 posts here. All about a discussion forum. Over on jets there is a thread with 7 posts ,5 from overseas about the passing of Neil Armstrong. Something very wrong with this. Don't know if another thread exists on another forum and don't want to imply all here don't respect and understand what Mr. Armstrong accomplished but still, something seems very wrong. Maybe the news that Snooki gave birth means more...
    I understand how you see it. But to be honest, between other forums, facebook and other outlets, I have already commented on the passing of Neil Armstrong. I'm sure many others are the same. Whereas this disuccsion about the AMA forum is happening only one place that I know of.


  20. #220
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    RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum

    Understand. Don't want to ruffle any feathers, so easy to do it seems.

    I tend to look at things as the grand scheme, if there is such a thing. Don't come here much, everyone seems to be always ripping someone a new one. Wanna be Ben Franklins and all.

    I got into this to fly model airplanes. AMA was a requirement to join the local club. Seems to be doing an ok job all things considered. Some seem to find problems with everything, whether they exist or not. Human nature I guess. On one hand we should be thanking them for possibly seeing things others don't, on another get over yourself.

    My post was just an observation from my point of view. Like it or not. If someone wants to remove it, have at it. I could have posted almost anywhere on this site the same. As I said just an observation. There may be other threads I am not aware of, and in no way am labeling anyone pertaining to this thread. An observation. Neil - 7. This 179 or so by now.

    My point is that the closing of the AMA forum warrants an almost rabid response from some, who did what or why. It has already degenerated into syntax and grammar errors, just to prove some point. Just doesn't seem too important to me. I of course could be wrong, have to admit that. But life, flying and the AMA will probably go on.

    Neil was the real deal, started out flying model airplanes long, long ago. Have a hard time believing he would have had anything to do with some of the discussions here.

    Enough said, sorry if I may have hijacked a thread, pointless as it seems. United we stand, divided we fall. Maybe it's time we just all accepted that, got back to some basics and have fun.

    Respectfully,
    Dan
    Hi Dad, Doing anything? Want to go to the field?

  21. #221
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    RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum


    ORIGINAL: FILE IFR

    Yes it was you.

    You posted it as a closing statement before locking the thread......
    FILE IFR,
    This is the thread:

    http://www.modelaircraft.org/forums/fb.ashx?m=16188

    The last post was reported by me as a personal attack with an abuse ticket that was closed by the moderator that wrote the post;

    From AMA Discussions noreply@modelaircraft.orghide
    To PHLPSFRNK PHLPSFRNK@

    Ticket closed by Arbo at Tuesday, August 21, 2012 8:20 PM
    A report ticket for message [Re:Thanks For The Memories!] you participated in
    was closed by Arbo at Tuesday, August 21, 2012 8:20 PM.

    If you'd like to reopen the ticket, simple go to http://www.modelaircraft.org/forums/ticket.aspx?rid=532
    and post a response there.

    Moderators will be notified again once the ticket is re-opened.

    Regards,

    Forum administrator
    =========================================
    AMA Discussions
    http://www.modelaircraft.org/forums/
    =========================================

    No opinion, just facts.

    Regards
    Frank
    It is not possible to write in such a way that cannot be misinterpreted by a reader determined to do so.

  22. #222
    littlecrankshaf's Avatar
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    RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum


    ORIGINAL: phlpsfrnk


    ORIGINAL: FILE IFR

    Yes it was you.

    You posted it as a closing statement before locking the thread......
    FILE IFR,
    This is the thread:

    http://www.modelaircraft.org/forums/fb.ashx?m=16188

    The last post was reported by me as a personal attack with an abuse ticket that was closed by the moderator that wrote the post;

    From AMA Discussions noreply@modelaircraft.orghide
    To PHLPSFRNK PHLPSFRNK@

    Ticket closed by Arbo at Tuesday, August 21, 2012 8:20 PM
    A report ticket for message [Re:Thanks For The Memories!] you participated in
    was closed by Arbo at Tuesday, August 21, 2012 8:20 PM.

    If you'd like to reopen the ticket, simple go to http://www.modelaircraft.org/forums/ticket.aspx?rid=532
    and post a response there.

    Moderators will be notified again once the ticket is re-opened.

    Regards,

    Forum administrator
    =========================================
    AMA Discussions
    http://www.modelaircraft.org/forums/
    =========================================

    No opinion, just facts.

    Regards
    Frank
    Great proof of the double standards allowed there. No doubt about it, makes everything Arbo said here suspect. His credibility is none existent in my eyes.
    It is very important to understand that Jesus not only died for our sins but died because of our sins...even harder to understand now, exactly what were those sins???

  23. #223

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    RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum


    ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf

    Great proof of the double standards allowed there. No doubt about it, makes everything Arbo said here suspect. His credibility is none existent in my eyes.
    First we get attacks, then we get 'i agree and like you', then more attacks.

    No double standards at all. Some users report posts non-stop. Their history is reporting anything they do not like, and 99% of the time it is not a rules violation. When they are known for such actions, perhaps it is harsh, but their complaints get igored or removed without reading them. Think of the story of the little boy who cried wolf. In this case, the person that has cried wolf hundreds of times is pfrank. He shouldn't be surprised if it is ignored. I'd bet the admins and EC do the same when he contact them. For the same reason.

    Of course, he came here to cry wolf as well, when even in the text he posted, it says he can re-open the ticket. Why doesn't he do that? I'll ignore it, and he can see how quickly those in charge look at it or take action.


    LCS, you do realize that at one point you were one of the targets of the mass reporting of just about everything you said, right? If you don't know that, now you do.



  24. #224
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    RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum


    ORIGINAL: Arbo


    ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf

    Great proof of the double standards allowed there. No doubt about it, makes everything Arbo said here suspect. His credibility is none existent in my eyes.
    First we get attacks, then we get 'i agree and like you', then more attacks. **

    No double standards at all. * Some users report posts non-stop. *Their history is reporting anything they do not like, and 99% of the time it is not a rules violation. * *When they are known for such actions, perhaps it is harsh, but their complaints get igored or removed without reading them. * Think of the story of the little boy who cried wolf. * *In this case, the person that has cried wolf hundreds of times is pfrank. *He shouldn't be surprised if it is ignored. * *I'd bet the admins and EC do the same when he contact them. * For the same reason.*



    Remember this;

    "BTW........ I see Frank P is back and quickly becoming a PITA.

    It looks like he has made complaining about the moderation here his new life focus."

    You did not think that was a personal attack either. No double standard leaving that stand.

    Frank
    It is not possible to write in such a way that cannot be misinterpreted by a reader determined to do so.

  25. #225

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    RE: AMA to close the AMA Discussions Forum


    ORIGINAL: phlpsfrnk

    Remember this;

    "BTW........ I see Frank P is back and quickly becoming a PITA.

    It looks like he has made complaining about the moderation here his new life focus."

    You did not think that was a personal attack either. No double standard leaving that stand.

    Frank
    Got a link to the message with that in it?



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