AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
02-14-2013, 10:41 AM
#151
RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
ORIGINAL: raziel1
hi im from the cleavland ohio area. and one day im sitting in my liveng room on a cold winter day watching the news and i see the police department show a quadcopter they will be useing to find missing people and it is set up with night vision.
i dont have no missing peoples at my house and the invasion of my rights also so what happens when i shoot this thing out of the air over my place?
hi im from the cleavland ohio area. and one day im sitting in my liveng room on a cold winter day watching the news and i see the police department show a quadcopter they will be useing to find missing people and it is set up with night vision.
i dont have no missing peoples at my house and the invasion of my rights also so what happens when i shoot this thing out of the air over my place?
If it was within your property line and there are not local restrictions ondischarging fireams, nothing. Or at least that ishow itshould be.
02-14-2013, 11:05 AM
#152
RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
DIY Drones have so become popular that I am starting a new offshoot to grab some of the action. New DIY Anti-aircraft systems. We will be offering mini radar stations with target acquisition and tracking that can feed directly to your choice of delivery system, AAA or G-A missles, and coming soon the new anti-aircraft laser system for the more affluent DIY'ers.
02-14-2013, 11:17 AM
#153
RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf
You guys have finally convinced me...The FPV guys are inherently more likely to push the limit and are probably going to cause us to lose our flying sites... Down with FPV...them guys are devils!
Now let's start working on those heli pilots and giant scale idiots... We can do it if we just stick together... maybe one day we can get all RC models eradicated as well...
ORIGINAL: joebahl
It is sad but its true and there will be some who not only give our hobby a bad name but the club's flying field too. In the past years we have lost flying fields for many reasons and i dont want to loose any because bad drones pilots are using them for their home base. joe
ORIGINAL: BarracudaHockey
Sadly, not always. Hence the problem, the ones that always have to push the limit.
Sadly, not always. Hence the problem, the ones that always have to push the limit.
Now let's start working on those heli pilots and giant scale idiots... We can do it if we just stick together... maybe one day we can get all RC models eradicated as well...
My point is simply this. Flying BVR is bad for the hobby. It blurs the line between commercial drone operations, and hobby use. Its fuel for the folks that want to lump all of us into the drone category.
As for the rest of that diatribe, please, give me a break, I'm the VP of a club that is a model for club diverstity; heli pilots, giant scale, glider towing, high starts, we do it all and for the most part have fun and get along while doing it.
02-14-2013, 11:34 AM
#154
RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
I say lets start a thread (Is the ama so hard up for either new members or money it would be willing to risk getting new restrictions placed on all of its members to stick up for the few drone jocky's ) I think it would be a great thread and i hope some of the higher ups in the ama would take notice of it. .Most who know me know i have been a faithfull AMA member for 35 years but with the new drone talk in the ama ,it does not apeal to me at all . joe
02-14-2013, 11:47 AM
#155
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: sheridan,
IN
Posts: 1,167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
ORIGINAL: cj_rumley
Sadly, some miscreants use guns, Ryder trucks and airliners to commit mass murders. Guns, Ryder trucks and airliners should be banned.
Seriously, if your club cannot enforce a simple rule that prohibits flying beyond the boundaries of the designated flyover area, why have rules at all?
ORIGINAL: joebahl
It is sad but its true and there will be some who not only give our hobby a bad name but the club's flying field too. In the past years we have lost flying fields for many reasons and i dont want to loose any because bad drones pilots are using them for their home base. joe
ORIGINAL: BarracudaHockey
Sadly, not always. Hence the problem, the ones that always have to push the limit.
Sadly, not always. Hence the problem, the ones that always have to push the limit.
Seriously, if your club cannot enforce a simple rule that prohibits flying beyond the boundaries of the designated flyover area, why have rules at all?
Is there not a significant number of Americans willing to ban certain types of guns, and even all guns, because of the actions of a few?
Before boarding an airliner, does one not have to submit to metal detectors and body scans in order to prove he/she is not capable of downing the aircraft (because our government suspects all passengers are potential criminals)?
I hate that it is that way, but it is, and it is a real concern wrt FPV.
Our hobby has progressed to the point that FPV makes it easy to step over a line not previously crossed before (notwithstanding Maynard Hill).
And people outside of some of the choir here are uncomfortable with the possibilities.
02-14-2013, 01:43 PM
#156
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Aguanga,
CA
Posts: 1,779
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
ORIGINAL: 804
But, cj,
Is there not a significant number of Americans willing to ban certain types of guns, and even all guns, because of the actions of a few?
ORIGINAL: cj_rumley
Sadly, some miscreants use guns, Ryder trucks and airliners to commit mass murders. Guns, Ryder trucks and airliners should be banned.
Seriously, if your club cannot enforce a simple rule that prohibits flying beyond the boundaries of the designated flyover area, why have rules at all?
ORIGINAL: joebahl
It is sad but its true and there will be some who not only give our hobby a bad name but the club's flying field too. In the past years we have lost flying fields for many reasons and i dont want to loose any because bad drones pilots are using them for their home base. joe
ORIGINAL: BarracudaHockey
Sadly, not always. Hence the problem, the ones that always have to push the limit.
Sadly, not always. Hence the problem, the ones that always have to push the limit.
Seriously, if your club cannot enforce a simple rule that prohibits flying beyond the boundaries of the designated flyover area, why have rules at all?
Is there not a significant number of Americans willing to ban certain types of guns, and even all guns, because of the actions of a few?
I don't agree with them.
Before boarding an airliner, does one not have to submit to metal detectors and body scans in order to prove he/she is not capable of downing the aircraft (because our government suspects all passengers are potential criminals)?
I hate that it is that way, but it is, and it is a real concern wrt FPV.
Our hobby has progressed to the point that FPV makes it easy to step over a line not previously crossed before (notwithstanding Maynard Hill).
And people outside of some of the choir here are uncomfortable with the possibilities.
Our hobby has progressed to the point that FPV makes it easy to step over a line not previously crossed before (notwithstanding Maynard Hill).
And people outside of some of the choir here are uncomfortable with the possibilities.
Every R/C model I own is easily capable of flying beyond distance/altitude limits set by rule or reason, and yet I resist the temptation. Why would I expect modelers flying FPV as a class to act any less responsibly than I do? Why would you?
02-14-2013, 03:20 PM
#157
My Feedback: (11)
RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
Seriously, our club is open 24/7 to members. There is a club safety officer, but rarely is anyone penalized... mostly just a talking to. There is really not a set list of penalties. What should it be??? death penalty??
ORIGINAL: on_your_six
How would you enforce it? Who enforces the rule? What is the penalty for breaking the rule? How was the penalty originated? What if it is your close friend?
How would you enforce it? Who enforces the rule? What is the penalty for breaking the rule? How was the penalty originated? What if it is your close friend?
ORIGINAL: cj_rumley
Sadly, some miscreants use guns, Ryder trucks and airliners to commit mass murders. Guns, Ryder trucks and airliners should be banned.
Seriously, if your club cannot enforce a simple rule that prohibits flying beyond the boundaries of the designated flyover area, why have rules at all?
Sadly, some miscreants use guns, Ryder trucks and airliners to commit mass murders. Guns, Ryder trucks and airliners should be banned.
Seriously, if your club cannot enforce a simple rule that prohibits flying beyond the boundaries of the designated flyover area, why have rules at all?
02-14-2013, 03:40 PM
#158
RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
ORIGINAL: on_your_six
Seriously, our club is open 24/7 to members. There is a club safety officer, but rarely is anyone penalized... mostly just a talking to. There is really not a set list of penalties. What should it be??? death penalty??
Seriously, our club is open 24/7 to members. There is a club safety officer, but rarely is anyone penalized... mostly just a talking to. There is really not a set list of penalties. What should it be??? death penalty??
ORIGINAL: on_your_six
How would you enforce it? Who enforces the rule? What is the penalty for breaking the rule? How was the penalty originated? What if it is your close friend?
How would you enforce it? Who enforces the rule? What is the penalty for breaking the rule? How was the penalty originated? What if it is your close friend?
ORIGINAL: cj_rumley
Sadly, some miscreants use guns, Ryder trucks and airliners to commit mass murders. Guns, Ryder trucks and airliners should be banned.
Seriously, if your club cannot enforce a simple rule that prohibits flying beyond the boundaries of the designated flyover area, why have rules at all?
Sadly, some miscreants use guns, Ryder trucks and airliners to commit mass murders. Guns, Ryder trucks and airliners should be banned.
Seriously, if your club cannot enforce a simple rule that prohibits flying beyond the boundaries of the designated flyover area, why have rules at all?
02-14-2013, 03:48 PM
#159
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: sheridan,
IN
Posts: 1,167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
ORIGINAL: cj_rumley
Yes, that is true, and similarly there are Americans that would ban certain types of model airplanes, even all model airplanes.
I don't agree with them.
Also true. At any of the clubs I am associated with (currently three) pilots new to a club are screened at some level as to their ability to safely control their model aircraft and briefed on the rules in effect at the site. In all cases of AMA chartered club flying sites there are rules in effect that designate where models are not to be flown, as behind other pilots. I expect most have rules (or conventions) regarding other exclusion areas that are site specific, and in the rare cases where none such rules/conventions exist I would presume it is because none are required so special rules for any given type of model are unwarranted.
Clearly from some of the opinions expressed in this thread some people are uncomfortable with FPV, but I frankly don't see the alternative viewpoint available to the pilot as compelling him to fly in an unsafe manner or otherwise resist compliance with accepted standards at the flying site. Actually he is probably less likely to screw off, as per the rules regarding FPV flying recently promulgated by, AMA a spotter is required.....pilot always has another pair of eyes on his actions.
Every R/C model I own is easily capable of flying beyond distance/altitude limits set by rule or reason, and yet I resist the temptation. Why would I expect modelers flying FPV as a class to act any less responsibly than I do? Why would you?
ORIGINAL: 804
But, cj,
Is there not a significant number of Americans willing to ban certain types of guns, and even all guns, because of the actions of a few?
ORIGINAL: cj_rumley
Sadly, some miscreants use guns, Ryder trucks and airliners to commit mass murders. Guns, Ryder trucks and airliners should be banned.
Seriously, if your club cannot enforce a simple rule that prohibits flying beyond the boundaries of the designated flyover area, why have rules at all?
ORIGINAL: joebahl
It is sad but its true and there will be some who not only give our hobby a bad name but the club's flying field too. In the past years we have lost flying fields for many reasons and i dont want to loose any because bad drones pilots are using them for their home base. joe
ORIGINAL: BarracudaHockey
Sadly, not always. Hence the problem, the ones that always have to push the limit.
Sadly, not always. Hence the problem, the ones that always have to push the limit.
Seriously, if your club cannot enforce a simple rule that prohibits flying beyond the boundaries of the designated flyover area, why have rules at all?
Is there not a significant number of Americans willing to ban certain types of guns, and even all guns, because of the actions of a few?
I don't agree with them.
Before boarding an airliner, does one not have to submit to metal detectors and body scans in order to prove he/she is not capable of downing the aircraft (because our government suspects all passengers are potential criminals)?
I hate that it is that way, but it is, and it is a real concern wrt FPV.
Our hobby has progressed to the point that FPV makes it easy to step over a line not previously crossed before (notwithstanding Maynard Hill).
And people outside of some of the choir here are uncomfortable with the possibilities.
Our hobby has progressed to the point that FPV makes it easy to step over a line not previously crossed before (notwithstanding Maynard Hill).
And people outside of some of the choir here are uncomfortable with the possibilities.
Every R/C model I own is easily capable of flying beyond distance/altitude limits set by rule or reason, and yet I resist the temptation. Why would I expect modelers flying FPV as a class to act any less responsibly than I do? Why would you?
This is not about what we as hobbiests think anymore, we are no longer out of sight, out of mind.
This is about what the public thinks from the standpoint of media spin,
how FAA reacts to that, and what we may need to do to counter that should the worst happen.
I am not uncomfortable with FPV as a technology by itself.
I am bothered by the way many, and I mean many, not just a few, practice FPV.
Why would I expect modelers flying FPV as a class to act any less responsibly than I do?
Because in my estimation, and in the opinion of many, many others, they do.
02-14-2013, 04:19 PM
#160
RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
The biggest difference between those that participate in R/C aviation and those that participate just in FPV is the interest that brought them to it. In the past you got involved in R/C aviation through a love of flying and aircraft. With FPV many have no interest in aviation beyond the the point that it is a tool to carry their equipment to specific vantage points. This has led to the fear that they will ruin it for the rest of us due to their lack of knowledge and/or concern of aviation, whether it be models or full scale.
02-14-2013, 04:25 PM
#161
RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
I absolutely love the wildness and dangerousness of AMA "santioned" combat and racing. When you "sign up" to play these games there is an unwritten understanding that you are voluntarily putting yourself and other participants at risk of injury or even worse.
As of 2013, I love the fact that we are still able to participate in these sports that an organization like OSHA would shutdown in a heartbeat.
Ideally, the hazards of these sports do not involve the unaware public and innocent bystanders what so ever, but they have. So far after 60+ years there have been very few trajedies that have involved the "public"...but there have been a few.
In this day and age I see people as being less tolerant than ever for their neighbor's "noise pollution", the height of their lawns, the color they want to paint their house and for anything else that poses even the slightest inconvenience or threat to their happiness and abilities to withstand even the slightest hardship, [like when they call 911 because of a car that wont start].
Have I said anything so far that is untrue..?
OK, let's move on.
I anticipate less tolerance, [more of a hair trigger so to speak] with the general public concerning issues that have to deal with their ability to go outside, jump in their cars and then go grab a bucket of KFC or some Happy Meals safely and without having to worry about the skies raining down with RC controlled models that are being flown OOS via telelink by the "Black Ops Game Boy Geeks".
So far there haven't been any AMA Drone related incidents that I'm aware of..especially none that are news worthy enough to cause a ground swell of anti-AMA sentiment across the USA.
Most of the time restrictions are imposed in response to trajedy and threat of extinction...it's never done pre-emptively.
The decision now is whether to be "pro-active" or not.
My main question is...who really needs to fly their plane like a cruise missile in order to have a good time..?
Do we really need to "embrace" this..?
Am I gullible enough to think that every AMA member with planes capable of flying a grid pattern up and down the streets of downtown Seattle at 20 feet high will be content to simply cruise the 20 acre [and very boring] boundaries of our club field with thousands of dollars worth of guided missile electronic capability..?
As of 2013, I love the fact that we are still able to participate in these sports that an organization like OSHA would shutdown in a heartbeat.
Ideally, the hazards of these sports do not involve the unaware public and innocent bystanders what so ever, but they have. So far after 60+ years there have been very few trajedies that have involved the "public"...but there have been a few.
In this day and age I see people as being less tolerant than ever for their neighbor's "noise pollution", the height of their lawns, the color they want to paint their house and for anything else that poses even the slightest inconvenience or threat to their happiness and abilities to withstand even the slightest hardship, [like when they call 911 because of a car that wont start].
Have I said anything so far that is untrue..?
OK, let's move on.
I anticipate less tolerance, [more of a hair trigger so to speak] with the general public concerning issues that have to deal with their ability to go outside, jump in their cars and then go grab a bucket of KFC or some Happy Meals safely and without having to worry about the skies raining down with RC controlled models that are being flown OOS via telelink by the "Black Ops Game Boy Geeks".
So far there haven't been any AMA Drone related incidents that I'm aware of..especially none that are news worthy enough to cause a ground swell of anti-AMA sentiment across the USA.
Most of the time restrictions are imposed in response to trajedy and threat of extinction...it's never done pre-emptively.
The decision now is whether to be "pro-active" or not.
My main question is...who really needs to fly their plane like a cruise missile in order to have a good time..?
Do we really need to "embrace" this..?
Am I gullible enough to think that every AMA member with planes capable of flying a grid pattern up and down the streets of downtown Seattle at 20 feet high will be content to simply cruise the 20 acre [and very boring] boundaries of our club field with thousands of dollars worth of guided missile electronic capability..?
02-14-2013, 06:03 PM
#162
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Aguanga,
CA
Posts: 1,779
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
ORIGINAL: 804
Until recently, we have not had the ability to fly 5 or so miles away, have not had the ability to fly by video, and record by video, and post video for all to see, good or bad.
This is not about what we as hobbiests think anymore, we are no longer out of sight, out of mind.
This is about what the public thinks from the standpoint of media spin,
how FAA reacts to that, and what we may need to do to counter that should the worst happen.
I am not uncomfortable with FPV as a technology by itself.
I am bothered by the way many, and I mean many, not just a few, practice FPV.
Why would I expect modelers flying FPV as a class to act any less responsibly than I do?
Because in my estimation, and in the opinion of many, many others, they do.
Until recently, we have not had the ability to fly 5 or so miles away, have not had the ability to fly by video, and record by video, and post video for all to see, good or bad.
This is not about what we as hobbiests think anymore, we are no longer out of sight, out of mind.
This is about what the public thinks from the standpoint of media spin,
how FAA reacts to that, and what we may need to do to counter that should the worst happen.
I am not uncomfortable with FPV as a technology by itself.
I am bothered by the way many, and I mean many, not just a few, practice FPV.
Why would I expect modelers flying FPV as a class to act any less responsibly than I do?
Because in my estimation, and in the opinion of many, many others, they do.
I respect your perspective on issues that concern us as modelers.........we wouldn't be having this discussion if that were not so. I will respond with my take on your legitimate concerns, but later. When I get to pontificating too much I get an eerie sense that I'm stifling discussion and that deprives me of an opportunity to learn from others, my real reason for being here.
One thing by way of an interim summation sort: as this is discussion about AMA and what we feel AMA should/should not do, is it better to welcome/enable FPV modelers to do their thing within AMA's sphere of influence (as they have done and nicely documented with the latest version of AMA Doc 550), or kick them to the curb and attempt to influence FAA/other-powers-that-be to ban the activity in the interest of protecting our public image?
Tnx, out for a break, CU later.
CJ
02-14-2013, 07:22 PM
#163
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: sheridan,
IN
Posts: 1,167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
ORIGINAL: cj_rumley
804,
I respect your perspective on issues that concern us as modelers.........we wouldn't be having this discussion if that were not so. I will respond with my take on your legitimate concerns, but later. When I get to pontificating too much I get an eerie sense that I'm stifling discussion and that deprives me of an opportunity to learn from others, my real reason for being here.
One thing by way of an interim summation sort: as this is discussion about AMA and what we feel AMA should/should not do, is it better to welcome/enable FPV modelers to do their thing within AMA's sphere of influence (as they have done and nicely documented with the latest version of AMA Doc 550), or kick them to the curb and attempt to influence FAA/other-powers-that-be to ban the activity in the interest of protecting our public image?
Tnx, out for a break, CU later.
CJ
ORIGINAL: 804
Until recently, we have not had the ability to fly 5 or so miles away, have not had the ability to fly by video, and record by video, and post video for all to see, good or bad.
This is not about what we as hobbiests think anymore, we are no longer out of sight, out of mind.
This is about what the public thinks from the standpoint of media spin,
how FAA reacts to that, and what we may need to do to counter that should the worst happen.
I am not uncomfortable with FPV as a technology by itself.
I am bothered by the way many, and I mean many, not just a few, practice FPV.
Why would I expect modelers flying FPV as a class to act any less responsibly than I do?
Because in my estimation, and in the opinion of many, many others, they do.
Until recently, we have not had the ability to fly 5 or so miles away, have not had the ability to fly by video, and record by video, and post video for all to see, good or bad.
This is not about what we as hobbiests think anymore, we are no longer out of sight, out of mind.
This is about what the public thinks from the standpoint of media spin,
how FAA reacts to that, and what we may need to do to counter that should the worst happen.
I am not uncomfortable with FPV as a technology by itself.
I am bothered by the way many, and I mean many, not just a few, practice FPV.
Why would I expect modelers flying FPV as a class to act any less responsibly than I do?
Because in my estimation, and in the opinion of many, many others, they do.
I respect your perspective on issues that concern us as modelers.........we wouldn't be having this discussion if that were not so. I will respond with my take on your legitimate concerns, but later. When I get to pontificating too much I get an eerie sense that I'm stifling discussion and that deprives me of an opportunity to learn from others, my real reason for being here.
One thing by way of an interim summation sort: as this is discussion about AMA and what we feel AMA should/should not do, is it better to welcome/enable FPV modelers to do their thing within AMA's sphere of influence (as they have done and nicely documented with the latest version of AMA Doc 550), or kick them to the curb and attempt to influence FAA/other-powers-that-be to ban the activity in the interest of protecting our public image?
Tnx, out for a break, CU later.
CJ
I think AMA's position is taken from what they felt they (we) had to do:
Embrace the new kids on the block , both from a moral, all inclusive standpoint, (not to mention money to be made)
and keeping an eye on safety by way of line of sight operation. I'm all for it.
AMA's position will, I feel, help protect our public image, because it keeps FPV within the realm of modeling, pretty much as we (and the public) have known it.
But, cfircav8tor made an excellent point earlier: "In the past you got involved in R/C aviation through a love of flying and aircraft. With FPV many have no interest in aviation beyond the the point that it is a tool to carry their equipment to specific vantage points."
Right or wrong, many see FPV as an entirely separate hobby. And if we talk about going out beyond line of sight, the distinction becomes even greater. Is it flying a model airplane, or is it operating an airborne camera?
This past summer, I for the first time in about 20 years went flying in a couple of light aircraft. I got to fly a Mooney around, and I took an intro lesson in a R-22 heli.
They were both from the same airport, Indy Metro, about 20 or so mi. North of downtown Indy.
So, fairly busy and crowded airspace. I was struck by how easy it was to actually fly both machines, but how much concentration it took to keep track of what
is going on outside the cockpit.
I'll be honest, I've adjusted my attitude a little concerning the possibility and plausibility of mixing full scale and FPV and UAV and Drones and whatever.
02-14-2013, 07:47 PM
#164
RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
ORIGINAL: 804
I hope no one takes my earlier comments to mean I hate, or am fearful of FPV in general. I'm not. I may well like to get into it someday.
I think AMA's position is taken from what they felt they (we) had to do:
Embrace the new kids on the block , both from a moral, all inclusive standpoint, (not to mention money to be made)
and keeping an eye on safety by way of line of sight operation. I'm all for it.
AMA's position will, I feel, help protect our public image, because it keeps FPV within the realm of modeling, pretty much as we (and the public) have known it.
But, cfircav8tor made an excellent point earlier: "In the past you got involved in R/C aviation through a love of flying and aircraft. With FPV many have no interest in aviation beyond the the point that it is a tool to carry their equipment to specific vantage points."
Right or wrong, many see FPV as an entirely separate hobby. And if we talk about going out beyond line of sight, the distinction becomes even greater. Is it flying a model airplane, or is it operating an airborne camera?
This past summer, I for the first time in about 20 years went flying in a couple of light aircraft. I got to fly a Mooney around, and I took an intro lesson in a R-22 heli.
They were both from the same airport, Indy Metro, about 20 or so mi. North of downtown Indy.
So, fairly busy and crowded airspace. I was struck by how easy it was to actually fly both machines, but how much concentration it took to keep track of what
is going on outside the cockpit.
I'll be honest, I've adjusted my attitude a little concerning the possibility and plausibility of mixing full scale and FPV and UAV and Drones and whatever.
ORIGINAL: cj_rumley
804,
I respect your perspective on issues that concern us as modelers.........we wouldn't be having this discussion if that were not so. I will respond with my take on your legitimate concerns, but later. When I get to pontificating too much I get an eerie sense that I'm stifling discussion and that deprives me of an opportunity to learn from others, my real reason for being here.
One thing by way of an interim summation sort: as this is discussion about AMA and what we feel AMA should/should not do, is it better to welcome/enable FPV modelers to do their thing within AMA's sphere of influence (as they have done and nicely documented with the latest version of AMA Doc 550), or kick them to the curb and attempt to influence FAA/other-powers-that-be to ban the activity in the interest of protecting our public image?
Tnx, out for a break, CU later.
CJ
ORIGINAL: 804
Until recently, we have not had the ability to fly 5 or so miles away, have not had the ability to fly by video, and record by video, and post video for all to see, good or bad.
This is not about what we as hobbiests think anymore, we are no longer out of sight, out of mind.
This is about what the public thinks from the standpoint of media spin,
how FAA reacts to that, and what we may need to do to counter that should the worst happen.
I am not uncomfortable with FPV as a technology by itself.
I am bothered by the way many, and I mean many, not just a few, practice FPV.
Why would I expect modelers flying FPV as a class to act any less responsibly than I do?
Because in my estimation, and in the opinion of many, many others, they do.
Until recently, we have not had the ability to fly 5 or so miles away, have not had the ability to fly by video, and record by video, and post video for all to see, good or bad.
This is not about what we as hobbiests think anymore, we are no longer out of sight, out of mind.
This is about what the public thinks from the standpoint of media spin,
how FAA reacts to that, and what we may need to do to counter that should the worst happen.
I am not uncomfortable with FPV as a technology by itself.
I am bothered by the way many, and I mean many, not just a few, practice FPV.
Why would I expect modelers flying FPV as a class to act any less responsibly than I do?
Because in my estimation, and in the opinion of many, many others, they do.
I respect your perspective on issues that concern us as modelers.........we wouldn't be having this discussion if that were not so. I will respond with my take on your legitimate concerns, but later. When I get to pontificating too much I get an eerie sense that I'm stifling discussion and that deprives me of an opportunity to learn from others, my real reason for being here.
One thing by way of an interim summation sort: as this is discussion about AMA and what we feel AMA should/should not do, is it better to welcome/enable FPV modelers to do their thing within AMA's sphere of influence (as they have done and nicely documented with the latest version of AMA Doc 550), or kick them to the curb and attempt to influence FAA/other-powers-that-be to ban the activity in the interest of protecting our public image?
Tnx, out for a break, CU later.
CJ
I think AMA's position is taken from what they felt they (we) had to do:
Embrace the new kids on the block , both from a moral, all inclusive standpoint, (not to mention money to be made)
and keeping an eye on safety by way of line of sight operation. I'm all for it.
AMA's position will, I feel, help protect our public image, because it keeps FPV within the realm of modeling, pretty much as we (and the public) have known it.
But, cfircav8tor made an excellent point earlier: "In the past you got involved in R/C aviation through a love of flying and aircraft. With FPV many have no interest in aviation beyond the the point that it is a tool to carry their equipment to specific vantage points."
Right or wrong, many see FPV as an entirely separate hobby. And if we talk about going out beyond line of sight, the distinction becomes even greater. Is it flying a model airplane, or is it operating an airborne camera?
This past summer, I for the first time in about 20 years went flying in a couple of light aircraft. I got to fly a Mooney around, and I took an intro lesson in a R-22 heli.
They were both from the same airport, Indy Metro, about 20 or so mi. North of downtown Indy.
So, fairly busy and crowded airspace. I was struck by how easy it was to actually fly both machines, but how much concentration it took to keep track of what
is going on outside the cockpit.
I'll be honest, I've adjusted my attitude a little concerning the possibility and plausibility of mixing full scale and FPV and UAV and Drones and whatever.
FAA Reauthorization Requires ADS-B by 2020,
http://www.ads-b.com/
02-14-2013, 11:11 PM
#165
My Feedback: (45)
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 792
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
This thread is nuts...
I fly "drones" for a living. We refer to them as Remotely Piloted Vehicles (RPVs) because the word "drone" is completely inaccurate. Being careful with where and why we are flying these unmanned aircraft is VERY wise. Disaster relief, port surveillance and border patrol are three good uses for these long endurance, unmanned aircraft. Drug interdiction and searching for illegal manufacturing facilities and "farming" are debateable since there is no "just cause" to search your property.
A licensed "for hire" business flying unmanned aircraft to make money is one thing there has to be sensible regulations for, or people not well trained in aviation rules and regulations will be sharing the "friendly skies" with manned aircraft. Not good.
Second, a hobbiest should NEVER be going beyond line of sight, even with FPV aircraft and a safety pilot (every FPV pilot uses a safety pilot and a buddy box, right?) no matter the capability of their equipment.
Third, the mere fact we are discussing this partially is because of the people taking snaps from 1000 feet up in the traffic pattern for airports like LAX...looking DOWN on airliners...or flying over heavily populated cities and taking snaps of bridges.
As a full scale pilot and a UAV/RPA/Drone/whatever pilot, I've been lucky that we can still depend on the "big sky theory."
A well known club in the Eastern Virginia area does not call the tower of a prominent airport less than 4 miles away when they fly, and they fly well over 400 feet AGL on a regular basis. Much like other sensitive issues, if we JUST FOLLOW EXISTING RULES we'd be fine and no public intervention would be necessary.
I only step into discussions like this to state some opinions from a guy who actually flies these things... in the hope that someone is watching who can make a difference directly with the AMA, Congress and FAA.
I also belong to the one organization striving to help the AMA negotiate with the Feds, the Jet Pilot's Organization...consider supporting them if you get a chance.
Great discussion, btw.
I fly "drones" for a living. We refer to them as Remotely Piloted Vehicles (RPVs) because the word "drone" is completely inaccurate. Being careful with where and why we are flying these unmanned aircraft is VERY wise. Disaster relief, port surveillance and border patrol are three good uses for these long endurance, unmanned aircraft. Drug interdiction and searching for illegal manufacturing facilities and "farming" are debateable since there is no "just cause" to search your property.
A licensed "for hire" business flying unmanned aircraft to make money is one thing there has to be sensible regulations for, or people not well trained in aviation rules and regulations will be sharing the "friendly skies" with manned aircraft. Not good.
Second, a hobbiest should NEVER be going beyond line of sight, even with FPV aircraft and a safety pilot (every FPV pilot uses a safety pilot and a buddy box, right?) no matter the capability of their equipment.
Third, the mere fact we are discussing this partially is because of the people taking snaps from 1000 feet up in the traffic pattern for airports like LAX...looking DOWN on airliners...or flying over heavily populated cities and taking snaps of bridges.
As a full scale pilot and a UAV/RPA/Drone/whatever pilot, I've been lucky that we can still depend on the "big sky theory."
A well known club in the Eastern Virginia area does not call the tower of a prominent airport less than 4 miles away when they fly, and they fly well over 400 feet AGL on a regular basis. Much like other sensitive issues, if we JUST FOLLOW EXISTING RULES we'd be fine and no public intervention would be necessary.
I only step into discussions like this to state some opinions from a guy who actually flies these things... in the hope that someone is watching who can make a difference directly with the AMA, Congress and FAA.
I also belong to the one organization striving to help the AMA negotiate with the Feds, the Jet Pilot's Organization...consider supporting them if you get a chance.
Great discussion, btw.
02-15-2013, 06:54 AM
#166
RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
ORIGINAL: FlyinTiger
This thread is nuts...
I fly ''drones'' for a living. We refer to them as Remotely Piloted Vehicles (RPVs) because the word ''drone'' is completely inaccurate. Being careful with where and why we are flying these unmanned aircraft is VERY wise. Disaster relief, port surveillance and border patrol are three good uses for these long endurance, unmanned aircraft. Drug interdiction and searching for illegal manufacturing facilities and ''farming'' are debateable since there is no ''just cause'' to search your property.
A licensed ''for hire'' business flying unmanned aircraft to make money is one thing there has to be sensible regulations for, or people not well trained in aviation rules and regulations will be sharing the ''friendly skies'' with manned aircraft. Not good.
Second, a hobbiest should NEVER be going beyond line of sight, even with FPV aircraft and a safety pilot (every FPV pilot uses a safety pilot and a buddy box, right?) no matter the capability of their equipment.
Third, the mere fact we are discussing this partially is because of the people taking snaps from 1000 feet up in the traffic pattern for airports like LAX...looking DOWN on airliners...or flying over heavily populated cities and taking snaps of bridges.
As a full scale pilot and a UAV/RPA/Drone/whatever pilot, I've been lucky that we can still depend on the ''big sky theory.''
A well known club in the Eastern Virginia area does not call the tower of a prominent airport less than 4 miles away when they fly, and they fly well over 400 feet AGL on a regular basis. Much like other sensitive issues, if we JUST FOLLOW EXISTING RULES we'd be fine and no public intervention would be necessary.
I only step into discussions like this to state some opinions from a guy who actually flies these things... in the hope that someone is watching who can make a difference directly with the AMA, Congress and FAA.
I also belong to the one organization striving to help the AMA negotiate with the Feds, the Jet Pilot's Organization...consider supporting them if you get a chance.
Great discussion, btw.
This thread is nuts...
I fly ''drones'' for a living. We refer to them as Remotely Piloted Vehicles (RPVs) because the word ''drone'' is completely inaccurate. Being careful with where and why we are flying these unmanned aircraft is VERY wise. Disaster relief, port surveillance and border patrol are three good uses for these long endurance, unmanned aircraft. Drug interdiction and searching for illegal manufacturing facilities and ''farming'' are debateable since there is no ''just cause'' to search your property.
A licensed ''for hire'' business flying unmanned aircraft to make money is one thing there has to be sensible regulations for, or people not well trained in aviation rules and regulations will be sharing the ''friendly skies'' with manned aircraft. Not good.
Second, a hobbiest should NEVER be going beyond line of sight, even with FPV aircraft and a safety pilot (every FPV pilot uses a safety pilot and a buddy box, right?) no matter the capability of their equipment.
Third, the mere fact we are discussing this partially is because of the people taking snaps from 1000 feet up in the traffic pattern for airports like LAX...looking DOWN on airliners...or flying over heavily populated cities and taking snaps of bridges.
As a full scale pilot and a UAV/RPA/Drone/whatever pilot, I've been lucky that we can still depend on the ''big sky theory.''
A well known club in the Eastern Virginia area does not call the tower of a prominent airport less than 4 miles away when they fly, and they fly well over 400 feet AGL on a regular basis. Much like other sensitive issues, if we JUST FOLLOW EXISTING RULES we'd be fine and no public intervention would be necessary.
I only step into discussions like this to state some opinions from a guy who actually flies these things... in the hope that someone is watching who can make a difference directly with the AMA, Congress and FAA.
I also belong to the one organization striving to help the AMA negotiate with the Feds, the Jet Pilot's Organization...consider supporting them if you get a chance.
Great discussion, btw.
joe
02-15-2013, 08:25 AM
#167
My Feedback: (58)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: here
Posts: 5,413
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
ORIGINAL: joebahl
BTW These are the same goofballs with more money than brains who shows up to your club field flying a 150 hp 3-d plane and they should realy be flying a sig kadet SR for another year or so. YOU KNOW THE TYPE cause i see you under the picnick table hiding along with myself when they fly. joe
BTW These are the same goofballs with more money than brains who shows up to your club field flying a 150 hp 3-d plane and they should realy be flying a sig kadet SR for another year or so. YOU KNOW THE TYPE cause i see you under the picnick table hiding along with myself when they fly.
joe
Somehow I suspected your fears as being along those lines. The giant scale, more money than brains guys with a Cessna, Cub, or Corsair gets a pass somehow along with those guys that fly the little speed demons all over the sky...
02-15-2013, 08:32 AM
#168
RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf
3D planes huh???
Somehow I suspected your fears as being along those lines. The giant scale, more money than brains guys with a Cessna, Cub, or Corsair gets a pass somehow along with those guys that fly the little speed demons all over the sky...
ORIGINAL: joebahl
BTW These are the same goofballs with more money than brains who shows up to your club field flying a 150 hp 3-d plane and they should realy be flying a sig kadet SR for another year or so. YOU KNOW THE TYPE cause i see you under the picnick table hiding along with myself when they fly. joe
BTW These are the same goofballs with more money than brains who shows up to your club field flying a 150 hp 3-d plane and they should realy be flying a sig kadet SR for another year or so. YOU KNOW THE TYPE cause i see you under the picnick table hiding along with myself when they fly.
joe
Somehow I suspected your fears as being along those lines. The giant scale, more money than brains guys with a Cessna, Cub, or Corsair gets a pass somehow along with those guys that fly the little speed demons all over the sky...
. I stand corrected . joe
02-15-2013, 01:10 PM
#169
RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
The object of flying the "speed demons" and all other traditional "sport" RC planes is to stay within the confines of the field and to expose the surrounding, neighboring public in the least way possible.
99.9% plus of all the crashes I've ever seen or heard of happen within the confines of the field shortly after the malfunction. Instances of "fly-aways" where the plane turns into an unguided cruise missile are very rare with the typical "sport flyer" RC models.
99.9% plus of all the crashes I've ever seen or heard of happen within the confines of the field shortly after the malfunction. Instances of "fly-aways" where the plane turns into an unguided cruise missile are very rare with the typical "sport flyer" RC models.
02-15-2013, 11:32 PM
#172
My Feedback: (58)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: here
Posts: 5,413
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
ORIGINAL: combatpigg
Instances of ''fly-aways'' where the plane turns into an unguided cruise missile are very rare with the typical ''sport flyer'' RC models.
Instances of ''fly-aways'' where the plane turns into an unguided cruise missile are very rare with the typical ''sport flyer'' RC models.
02-16-2013, 12:02 AM
#173
RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf
I wish somebody would tell that to the guys here! I wouldn't characterize it as rare much less very rare for fear of being laughed at for making a joke of some kind...
I wish somebody would tell that to the guys here! I wouldn't characterize it as rare much less very rare for fear of being laughed at for making a joke of some kind...
I've witnessed it happen just a few times in 27 years. The other few hundred crashes I've been party to... the plane had about a 3 or 4 second life expectancy after it claimed independence from it's owner.
02-16-2013, 02:50 AM
#174
My Feedback: (58)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: here
Posts: 5,413
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
ORIGINAL: combatpigg
I wish you guys could share your secrets for how you get your malfunctioned planes to assume perfect neutral trim and attitude as often as you say they do.
I've witnessed it happen just a few times in 27 years. The other few hundred crashes I've been party to... the plane had about a 3 or 4 second life expectancy after it claimed independence from it's owner.
ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf
I wish somebody would tell that to the guys here! I wouldn't characterize it as rare much less very rare for fear of being laughed at for making a joke of some kind...
I wish somebody would tell that to the guys here! I wouldn't characterize it as rare much less very rare for fear of being laughed at for making a joke of some kind...
I've witnessed it happen just a few times in 27 years. The other few hundred crashes I've been party to... the plane had about a 3 or 4 second life expectancy after it claimed independence from it's owner.
Now back to bashing FPV everyone...nothing to see here...
02-16-2013, 04:27 AM
#175
RE: AMA emails on Drones/Right to Fly
Maybe this is slightly off topic some, but I think it fits. This reminds me of a fact that I see at most clubs and probably carries over to the greatest percentage of clubs and that is that most folks just don't like what is not within their realm of control. I am not a big warbird, heli, foamie, or electric guy. They bug me when they are out an often I find they don't have much respect for other flyers, yet this is entirely my perception of the matter and I think mostly because I don't care for that style of flying. Would it be the same with FPV/drone scenario?
We have a few now that are really getting into the FPV scene and this is mostly the heli guys. I think this thread is more about the airplane drones, but not entirely defined from what I can tell. We have one guy that is really into it and he does a fantastic job flying his quadcopters with all the camera equipment etc., and he produces some of the most fantastic videos I have ever seen.
I have learned to respect him and the heli guys, yet at times I simply don't enjoy flying my planes as much when these guys are in the air. I tend to not fly as much, or navigate to other flying fields that are more open to my type of flying. I need to be careful that my whole stand on the matter is not merely because I don't like something or it does not appeal to me.
I remember in hurricane Katrina how that remote control helicopters (drones if you wish) saved many lives by being able to navigate into places to determine if anyone was there and crewes could go in and attempt to get the people out. To me this sheds a justifiable light on drones and a respect from me.
As far as the privacy issue with drones, I do have a serious problem if it comes to the point that I can no longer defend my right to privacy in this country. If me or my close family desire to be at the bedside of a loved one when they are passing and that be private isn't that my families choice?
I certainly do not want some drone off in the distance with cameras zooming in on me. Some things are simply held in honor and private to me. Maybe I am wrong about it, however it is my opinion. You can only go so far as to how you look at me in my private life. Besides why would "big brother" waste such time on simple folks like some of us are? [X(]
We have a few now that are really getting into the FPV scene and this is mostly the heli guys. I think this thread is more about the airplane drones, but not entirely defined from what I can tell. We have one guy that is really into it and he does a fantastic job flying his quadcopters with all the camera equipment etc., and he produces some of the most fantastic videos I have ever seen.
I have learned to respect him and the heli guys, yet at times I simply don't enjoy flying my planes as much when these guys are in the air. I tend to not fly as much, or navigate to other flying fields that are more open to my type of flying. I need to be careful that my whole stand on the matter is not merely because I don't like something or it does not appeal to me.
I remember in hurricane Katrina how that remote control helicopters (drones if you wish) saved many lives by being able to navigate into places to determine if anyone was there and crewes could go in and attempt to get the people out. To me this sheds a justifiable light on drones and a respect from me.
As far as the privacy issue with drones, I do have a serious problem if it comes to the point that I can no longer defend my right to privacy in this country. If me or my close family desire to be at the bedside of a loved one when they are passing and that be private isn't that my families choice?
I certainly do not want some drone off in the distance with cameras zooming in on me. Some things are simply held in honor and private to me. Maybe I am wrong about it, however it is my opinion. You can only go so far as to how you look at me in my private life. Besides why would "big brother" waste such time on simple folks like some of us are? [X(]