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Old 01-08-2014, 10:39 AM
  #226
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The most important rule is "Line of sight, see and avoid". That pretty much keeps people honest. You don't want to fly far enough to lose orientation. We actually have a nice video on youtube under hvrcc. But the planethat took the video stayed within the perimeter of the field.
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Old 01-08-2014, 10:44 AM
  #227
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Here is that video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BGzaSdRSK4 As you can see, we are in a nice area with a great view of the Hudson River. We did allow FPV at one point but I found a guy flying over a sewer plant behind the flightline one day.
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Old 01-08-2014, 11:35 AM
  #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruceal View Post
Here is that video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BGzaSdRSK4 As you can see, we are in a nice area with a great view of the Hudson River. We did allow FPV at one point but I found a guy flying over a sewer plant behind the flightline one day.
Nice Video! You guys have a very nice flying site. It seems the Telemaster's flight video would be just as conducive for FPV Flying. What am I missing?
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Old 01-08-2014, 11:56 AM
  #229
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Well that's the point. The Telemaster was flown within the boundaries of the field. It's too easy to just take a detour and go exploring. I'm not saying everyone who does FPV would, but like I said we wouldn't get a second chance. One of the problems come from the news stories of drones in manned airspace, and I'm sure that you saw the one that the guy flew off of his balcony in the city and it crashed on the sidewalk down below. When we get visitors at the field, we explain to them that this is the area that we fly in. They assume that we can fly across the Hudson and back. Our answer to them is that we only fly LOS. Public perception means alot when you are using Town property. Also the question of liability almost always comes up.We are nieghbors to a heliport. I had to do alot of convincing for them to accept us and now we have a great relationship But if they were to see something flying where it's not supposed be, it would be over.I would love to have you guy's come and fly here as guests to get a feel for where I'm coming from.
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Old 01-08-2014, 01:06 PM
  #230
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I never said that a camera was a problem, only FPV. The problem is that who is going to be at the field and police people 24/7. Some clubs don't have the luxury of an "oops" moment, and we are one of them. As for FPV being as safe as other forms of the hobby, sure it can be. But how many people do you know that want to invest in a nice FPV set up to fly where everyone else does. My point is that the AMA isn't going to stop the Town from removing us when they get complaints from a heliport and marina that pays hefty taxes. The AMA says we have 550 and 560 as guidelines for FPV to follow. I say good luck with that.
I don't know haw your field is set up, but we have locked gates. Entry to the field might be possible by creeping through the adjacent woods. But, good luck to that. Normal entry is by using the code (that changes annually) to unlock the gate. Anyway, we expect that all of our members will behave responsibly and will expect any member who tries to screw it up for the rest of us. I think that you should expect the same of your club members.
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Old 01-08-2014, 01:44 PM
  #231
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For the most part people go by the rules. We have some competitive 2M pattern fliers that manage to do the FAI sequence within bounds as well as 42% stuff. Never really a problem. I do belong to other clubs and one in particular almost lost their flying site because a member was out over a golf course two miles away. In accordance to #550 he was using a spotter. Too bad he was using binoculars. Again, I know that their are many who would follow the rules and not cause a problem. But still we are too close to too many things that would pose a risk. If a club is in a more remote area, great. Around this area fields are next to impossible to find. And as I said earlier, we did have people with FPV flying out of bounds before. If we had pattern people flying off the field, we would stop that too. No one wants to be the bad guy but that's the way it is. By the way I see you are in Virginia. My brother inlaw lives in Fairfax Station. Are there many fields around that area or is it too close to DC? We are thinking of moving either to Virginia or North Carolina one day.
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Old 01-08-2014, 01:53 PM
  #232
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Another issue we have is that some guy's told us that if they can't do FPV from the field, they would just go to the park or fly from their backyard and fly from there. If a person has so little regard for the AMA rules that they would do that, how would you trust them to obey the club and AMA rules at the field? Again, to be fair not everyone would do this but it takes one time.
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Old 01-08-2014, 02:50 PM
  #233
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For the most part people go by the rules. We have some competitive 2M pattern fliers that manage to do the FAI sequence within bounds as well as 42% stuff. Never really a problem. I do belong to other clubs and one in particular almost lost their flying site because a member was out over a golf course two miles away. In accordance to #550 he was using a spotter. Too bad he was using binoculars. Again, I know that their are many who would follow the rules and not cause a problem. But still we are too close to too many things that would pose a risk. If a club is in a more remote area, great. Around this area fields are next to impossible to find. And as I said earlier, we did have people with FPV flying out of bounds before. If we had pattern people flying off the field, we would stop that too. No one wants to be the bad guy but that's the way it is. By the way I see you are in Virginia. My brother inlaw lives in Fairfax Station. Are there many fields around that area or is it too close to DC? We are thinking of moving either to Virginia or North Carolina one day.

Sounds like you have to make some tough decisions about modes of flying. I wish you luck.

As for moving to VA or NC, there are flying clubs all over the place. Unfortunately, due to unreasonable fears of terrorism, DC itself is blocked from R/C flying. But there are quite a few fields surrounding the dead zone. When you decide to focus on a given town or region, go to the AMA website and look up flying clubs.
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Old 01-08-2014, 09:35 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by bruceal View Post
Another issue we have is that some guy's told us that if they can't do FPV from the field, they would just go to the park or fly from their backyard and fly from there. If a person has so little regard for the AMA rules that they would do that, how would you trust them to obey the club and AMA rules at the field? Again, to be fair not everyone would do this but it takes one time.
I don't understand why you think that FPVers flying at a park or their backyard shows little regard for AMA rules...After all its rules like those you impose that pushes them out from AMA's control.
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Old 01-09-2014, 09:35 AM
  #235
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I don't understand why you think that FPVers flying at a park or their backyard shows little regard for AMA rules...After all its rules like those you impose that pushes them out from AMA's control.
You don't see anything wrong with flying over people in an uncontrolled environment like a park?
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Old 01-09-2014, 10:17 AM
  #236
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You don't see anything wrong with flying over people in an uncontrolled environment like a park?
I didn't say that! But let's imagine if all clubs took the position you have...Doesn't take a genius to figure out the unintended consequences to the hobby of that strategy.
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Old 01-09-2014, 01:31 PM
  #237
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The position I have is to protect the flying sight so that the majority of our members have a place to fly. Also, I have said from the beginning that not all club fields can support all types of aircraft. Now while we don't allow FPV, there are other clubs that are in a better position to host it. Just like we can support pattern. Two other clubs that I belong to can't because they don't have the area to make the box for pattern. Now with that, they do allow FPV as long as it's done in accordance with AMA 550. We all need to make adjustments so that we can keep our fields.
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Old 01-09-2014, 01:35 PM
  #238
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One other thing is that I'm glad that we have these forums. It's always good to hear from people from across the country so we can share our views. We might not always agree, but that's what makes the world go 'round.
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Old 01-18-2014, 07:09 PM
  #239
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It's not worth the time to attempt to explain likely bad outcomes to a libtard.
The outcome of the PPP is a prime example of that.

Last edited by combatpigg; 01-18-2014 at 07:12 PM.
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Old 01-18-2014, 07:46 PM
  #240
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It's not worth the time to attempt to explain likely bad outcomes to a libtard.
The outcome of the PPP is a prime example of that.
True. Same could be said for for the pursuit of special privileges for CBO members thingy that hasn't deservedly died yet, or at least like the PPP dinosaur isn't intelligent enough to fall over. Oddly, that's an appeal to special privilege for the anointed, pretty much a polar opposite from what you relate to libtard motives.
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Old 01-18-2014, 08:03 PM
  #241
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This AM I saw on a news TV program, I forget which and where as I was getting ready to attend a family function, but some Real Estate fellow is having some problems with a some large City Group about flying one of the Quad Copter machines to take pictures of houses and development properties that his company is interested in.

This had NOTHING to do with AMA or model aviation. In this case the machine was strictly a business tool. That means that they will be flying all over the sky. Your house, your flying field, your kids schools and everything that will bring someone a $ or two. So when enough families have to dig them out of the attics, and other places, then just maybe someone might take a good look at these toys all over everywhere. OTOH 1:1 scale crashes every day, folks get killed, but they generate money so nothing happens. Actually, IMO, government should not interfere with private business, again a big YET who will behave themselves where making a dollar is concerned.
IMO the producers are using model aviation and AMA as a stepping stone to finance the machine production for adequate quantity on the market where Big Business will take over said market, and Businesses will make $$ while model aviation (AMA) gets the bad rap!
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Old 01-18-2014, 08:23 PM
  #242
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Amen, Hoss

So how should/can we hoi polloi members get AMA management to steer clear of supporting commercial ops and obliterating the one distinction that separates our operations from those in it for $$$?
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Old 01-18-2014, 09:25 PM
  #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj_rumley View Post
Amen, Hoss

So how should/can we hoi polloi members get AMA management to steer clear of supporting commercial ops and obliterating the one distinction that separates our operations from those in it for $$$?
I think that's fairly easy to answer: They WILL NOT steer clear of supporting commercial operations. There is a LOT of money in all of this, and so far, there have been almost NO serious injuries or fatalities in the 75 years that small unmanned aircraft have existed. I think it has been proven time and time again, that for the most part, these small tools can be operated in a safe manner by most people, and it is very unlikely that someone making a buck off an FPV apparatus will cause much of a mark if an accident occurs. We're talking what, maybe a 16 ounce craft here? Maybe 3 pounds at the most, and nearly ALL of it being made of some frangible material. Hit someone's car, and MAYBE the owner shells out a few hundred bucks to take out a small dent on a side panel. That's small potatoes, when you consider the amount the photographer gets paid for doing an assignment for a land broker.

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Old 01-18-2014, 10:02 PM
  #244
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NS-

A most significant difference between our modus operandi and commercial ops using sUAS similar to ours is that we operate in spaces where the consequences of returning to Earth unexpectedly are benign, except for the airframe and its control/telemetry equipment. We generally fly over spaces where it is non-threating to persons and their property. That is not true for commercial uses, where the airspace is usually over places of habitation or scenes where news happens.

cj

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Old 01-18-2014, 11:37 PM
  #245
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A few things that come to mind.
If there is big money involved the government will get involved.
A prop spinning at thousands of rpm can cut flesh very easily.
There is no aircraft system that wll never have a cataistrophic failure.
The biggest oxymoron ever " I'm from the FAA and I'm here to help"

Two things that will destroy model aviation. The AMA involved in commercial operations and the FAA involved in model aviation.
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Old 01-19-2014, 02:40 AM
  #246
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I would like to see exactly what the FAA can do about model airplanes. The advisory circular has been out for 30 years, and it is very well assumed that people will fly their toys in parks, or where ever, as long as it doesn't bother other people or compromise public safety. There is even a mandate from congress, to keep the FAA out of the model plane business. Since when are they going to require a medical certificate to fly a Sig Kadet .40?

Model aviation relates to this: People have been flying ultra-light vehicles since the mid 1970's, anything that weighs less than 250 pounds and has a motor can fly. It doesn't even have to be certified, any more than a model airplane does. And, it can carry an adult. Or two adults, for that matter, if lessons are involved. So folks, there WILL be a distinct separation, not much different from the separation of ultra light vehicles and a Piper Cherokee. The hobby is not going away, and nobody's going to care if someone sticks a camera on an electric park foamie.
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Old 01-19-2014, 03:58 AM
  #247
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my aerial video/photo rig weighs in at about 9 pounds with full load of batteries.
it is a Y-6 type multirotor.
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Old 01-19-2014, 06:00 PM
  #248
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Originally Posted by cj_rumley View Post
Amen, Hoss

So how should/can we hoi polloi members get AMA management to steer clear of supporting commercial ops and obliterating the one distinction that separates our operations from those in it for $$$?
Coup d'etat?
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Old 01-19-2014, 07:55 PM
  #249
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Coup d'etat?
Oh, come on 804...all they want is just a little more authority...
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Old 01-19-2014, 08:31 PM
  #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruceal View Post
The position I have is to protect the flying sight so that the majority of our members have a place to fly. Also, I have said from the beginning that not all club fields can support all types of aircraft. Now while we don't allow FPV, there are other clubs that are in a better position to host it. Just like we can support pattern. Two other clubs that I belong to can't because they don't have the area to make the box for pattern. Now with that, they do allow FPV as long as it's done in accordance with AMA 550. We all need to make adjustments so that we can keep our fields.
All it takes is a little MORE common sense and a little bit LESS "over zealousness" about this hobby to understand why you needed to take the action that you did. Before drone models arrived on the scene, were there ANY instances you know of where a flyer of "Conventional RC" was flying that far out of bounds on purpose...?
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