ira d

It should not make a difference if the guy was flying commercial are not. What should matter was he flying in a unsafe manner or endangering people or property.

If he was not flying in a unsafe manner the FAA should have advised him that they plan to put into place new rules that prohibit flying models for any type of compensation.
and let it go.

ira d

It remains to be seen if the CBO will have the full exemptions that the AMA wants or what within the programming of a CBO means.

Silent-AV8R

FWIW, as I recall the actual case, the FAA cited him for unsafe flying, not for flying a commercial drone.

The judge voided the fine by determining that he was in fact flying an RC model and an RC model is not an "aircraft".

JohnShe

Why don't you Google it your self. I found two tragic accidents with one search.

Section 338 of 112-95 is an act of regulating model aviation. Fortunately it allows us to self regulate with FAA oversight.

Who is Shannon Watts?

I think you are missing the point. No one has accused anyone of using a model plane or a drone as a weapon, yet. We are only discussing the acts of a few psychotically deranged individuals who are ignoring reasonable safety practices. And, by ignoring the rules, they are turning perfectly good toys into dangerous weapons.

ira d

IMO the FAA should stay with regulating drones that are flown in airspace along with other full scale craft or in the size range of full scale craft and
leave alone smaller hobby size craft. I do understand that models flown in a unsafe manner needs to be dealt with but I am not sure the FAA needs
to be the one to do it.

Silent-AV8R

The issue is that a great number of drones that are used for commercial purposes are indistinguishable from "hobby" drones/RC models. THis is going to be an avenue of attack for that segment when FAA does impose rules (as I think they should) on commercial operations. I've already heard it talked about. How can FAA regulate a guy flying a Phantom II taking pictures of crops but NOT regulate a guy flying a Phantom II taking pictures of his neighborhood for his own amusement, i.e., as a hobby.

JohnShe

Well, the FAA has been charged with integrating sUAS and large scale UAS into the NAS. They have decided to start with sUAS, but have not produced a set of regulations. And That's were the judge got them.

The problem with sUAS is that sociopaths are buying toys and thinking they can operate them as a sUAS. I think that, in the UVA case local law allowed, or was forced to allow, the FAA to run with the ball. Maybe local law can now follow-up on it. Should be interesting to see what happens.

As far as the general case goes, I think local law and the FAA should work together to nail the sociopaths.

JohnShe

Interesting idea, but both flyers are failing to follow reasonable safety guidelines and can be charged with reckless endangerment. But, that is more like local law.

If the flyer is following CBO guidelines, then he is a hobbyiest. If the flyer is not going by the official CBO guidelines, then he is no longer a hobbyist but a sociopath, and can be regulated by the FAA. If he is a businessman, then he will be following the FAA regulations. It shouldn't be too hard to tell them apart.

cj_rumley

Apparently the wannabe CBO can't tell them apart.

2/7/14 Press release from AMA Government Relations Blog:

“We are carefully reviewing the decision and the judge’s findings. Though the ruling deals primarily with administrative procedures, the safe operation of unmanned aircraft, be it for commercial or recreational purposes, is the primary concern. The members of the Academy of Model Aeronautics have operated unmanned aircraft (model aircraft) in the national airspace for decades and have set the example for operating small unmanned aircraft systems (sUAS) in a safe and harmonious fashion.”

“This current situation underscores the immediate need for programing to support and govern this activity. The Academy stands ready to lend its expertise and to assist the FAA in developing a safety structure that will enable and allow all sUAS to operate safely and responsibly in the national airspace.”

Recalling a comment by LCS above, this looks like their application for the FAA lap dog job.

cj

Silent-AV8R

I think the way the FAA is looking at it is that it does not matter what you are flying, if you are doing it for hire then you will fall under the new rules when, and if, they ever get them published.

Your fascination with sociopathic behavior has no bearing on how they are writing the rules or how they will eventually be enforced.

Jim Branaum

My Feedback: (3)

Lets get real here boy. If YOU want Shannon Watts involved because you are too lazy to determine the FACTS for yourself by simply doing a little research, I am sure you are perfectly capable of calling her yourself. Aren't you? Or are you so wound up with being perfect that it is impossible for you to be educated? I know...you have write only memory!

There have been 2 deaths in the last 5 or 6 years (I am pretty sure one was last year) from models and at a few more than that previously. The previous incidents drive the manner in which racing is handled now and changed the Safety Code to prohibit flight over gatherings of people (that was after a death in CandleStick Park some years ago). There are others, but if you are too much of a lazy bum to do the research I am not going to waste my valuable time and effort educating you. Stupid people cannot be fixed and I am not even going to try.

Other than that sir, you are welcome to go pound sand and find out all about Cumulo Ganitus through personal experience.

NorfolkSouthern

I tell you what. I have other hobbies and interests that are very important to me. So, I do indeed stay within the confines of the law. I will assure you of that. None of my planes have ever hurt anybody, but then again I also am careful to not fly around people. But like I said earlier, I do not care if the model airplane hobby collapses under the weight of its own bureaucracy. I will add, that the AMA is more than welcome to pull my membership by refusing to renew. Heck, I'll even give my AMA number to them, so they can do as they please. It still will not stop me from flying in an unpopulated area, with a property owner's permission. THAT can only be prevented by the FAA licensing people who fly model airplanes, like they do full-scale pilots. It is still legal for me to fly my model planes, because there is no requirement for a license or medical certificate.

So you see, the AMA (FAA's lap puppy dog) finally ADMITS that small drones are actually just model airplanes, which the AirHog from Wal-Mart can be included. I guess they better hurry fast, if they want something done about all this confusion. Right?

Sport_Pilot

Which is fine, even if he is a sociopath. The judge has ruled. This is as I predicted months ago. Not so confident my other predictions will come true, or at least not for some time.

Sport_Pilot

Right, the FAA has control for nonavivagable airspace for helicoptor use. It does not mean they have control for footballs, baseballs, kite's, model airplanes,or sUAV's.

Sport_Pilot

The FAA has been arguingthis internally for some time. I think the boss's want it all and the lawyers are in the. I predict they will not meet their 2015 mandate and will not till after 2016 when a new boss tells them to get their act together.

Sport_Pilot

IMO you may be the boy, lets calm down a bit.

JohnShe

Yup, that is what is supposed to happen.

Well, it's the sociopaths who make the rules and laws necessary.

Sport_Pilot

The judge said it was not supposed to happen, at least not yet, And according to you people who fly from vacant lots are sociopath's, which includes at least two AMA hall of famers.

JohnShe

Well, it depends on the character of the vacant lot. Is it a half-acre of more and well away from buildings and populated areas? I don't know at all what the lot looks like. But if they are flying in city or suburban neighborhoods then they are sociopaths just waiting for an accident to happen.

BTW: Nobody in this thread has sounded like an AMA hall of famer, whatever that is?

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

How about flying downtown right in front of the court house??

JohnShe

Well it does make a difference. Commercial flying puts him directly under the thumb of the FAA. Hobby flying in the worst case might bring in the local law enforcement. If you read the NTSB decision you would see that that is how the judge ruled.


No way that they just let it go. That guy was nutz. And, they did send him a cease and desist letter.

JohnShe

rotflmao

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Even funnier... it was at night...LOL

Jim Branaum

My Feedback: (3)

I hope you NEVER have any sort of accident involving another person and model aviation because it WILL directly affect your family with or without the AMA. The only question the AMA may help with is how much. Less if you are not a member and in fact the injured party might use that negative relationship to their advantage.

You can continue to drink the stupid Kool Aide about lap dogs, or back off and try to figure out what is and what is not important about what IS HAPPENING rather than what you want to have happen. They are two very different subjects. I don't care what the AMA says nor does it have any impact on THIS CASE. Did you understand that or does it have to be carved in something and dropped on your foot for you to grasp it?

As for your suggestion that now the FAA should be licensing hobbyists, it stinks but I am sure that is what you are really pushing for in your effort to be exclusive and elitist.

The FAA's position has not changed substantially over the years. Hobby flying is hobby flying and generally simply watched, but any flight involving compensation is strictly regulated both in equipment and personal training standards and conduct rules as there a lot of innocent bystanders who are constantly being put at risk by unsafe operators (as defined by the FAA). Tell us Mr. Perfect why that same metric should not be applied to ANY aircraft/pilot combination that is capable of compensated flight?

In case you missed it the subject of this discussion is the FAA and a fine rather than the AMA and your obvious psychopathic hatred for it.


Originally Posted by littlecrankshaf
how about flying downtown right in front of the court house??

If you can make that happen - DO IT! By the way, how did it go? Yes, I remembered.

Sport_Pilot, I don't think so.

GerKonig

This is a big country. Very diverse. People are so different one form another. And forums like these really show us how far off the cliff some people really are. Some seem to live in their own country created in their own mind, in a non-existing bubble.

Gerry
PS: come to reality, we have cookies...