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Fear mongering? AMA members with airman certificates?

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Fear mongering? AMA members with airman certificates?

Old 10-21-2014, 09:30 PM
  #176  
TimJ
 
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Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot
Since when was golf related to air travel? The golf course and the air just above it is not part of the NAS.
0 to 700 feet AGL is considered Class G airspace of the National Airspace System.
Old 10-22-2014, 12:51 AM
  #177  
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Originally Posted by bradpaul
If a pilot that holds a full scale license, flying a RC model hit and damaged a full scale plane in flight, then yes, I think the FAA would pull his certificate.

And I would be in full agreement.
Okay, you need to explain yourself as to why. I hold a US Private Pilot's ticket and I fly RC. I have flown at sanctioned airshows and have even flown within 3 miles of an airport on occasion. So what bearing does my pilots's license have? If I were to have an incident flying RC, I would expect to be prosecuted as any other RC pilot NOT holding a PPL. What is your rationale for anything different?
Old 10-22-2014, 04:30 AM
  #178  
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Originally Posted by JoeEagle
Frank do you think that flight above 400 feet is allowed by either the PL or the Interpretation of the PL? Do you think the FAA could not pull your cert for flights above 400 feet? If not why not

thanks
Joe,
To answer your simple questions with simple answers; Yes and Yes. Unfortunately most situations where an actual or perceived violation might occur would be anything but simple.

There is nothing in the Public Law (PL) Sec 336 or the FAA interpretation concerning the flight altitude of model aircraft. AC 91-57 of 1981 (still in effect) states “Do not fly model aircraft higher than 400 feet above the surface.” and before anyone jumps on this yes AC 91-57 is only “Advisory”. This altitude limit has been discussed Ad nauseam for years but I think for discussion purposes here we can agree that an advisory 400 foot limit is what the intent was. I have been a member of clubs with a 400 foot limit for normal operations (powered flight) and a mandatory spotter requirement for flights above 400 feet (sailplanes) (see AMA .pdf 540-D). Another club has a hard 400 ft AGL limit and because of close proximity to an active runway a mandatory spotter requirement at all times. The RC field position is described in the FAA airport directory (see FAA Identifier 3GM).

The FAA can pull my ticket for any bad decision making in or out of the cockpit. I know an ATP pilot that got his ticket pulled for a Driving While Intoxicated (DWI) conviction so yes, if I do something intentional or extremely stupid I could lose my ticket. In the cockpit bad decision making can cause you to lose more than your ticket.

Bottom line, if we (modelers) follow the rules and use some common sense we have nothing to fear from the FAA.

Frank

PS Nice BVM F18, where do you find the room to fly it?
Old 10-22-2014, 05:07 AM
  #179  
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Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot
I wish people would stop refering to NAS becasue it is not what people seem to think. It is not every bit of air over our land, it is actually only the system of air navigation and airspace used by commercial aircraft and as such is only navigable airspace.
Sport,
You have made this same argument before (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/ama-...mally-fly.html) and nobody bought it then and I doubt you can sell it here. Please do not regurgitate it here.

Frank
Old 10-22-2014, 06:31 AM
  #180  
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Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot
Since when was golf related to air travel? The golf course and the air just above it is not part of the NAS.

WRONG Again
Originally Posted by TimJ
0 to 700 feet AGL is considered Class G airspace of the National Airspace System.
Check out NAS air space Class G the Pink area. What it doesn't show that the area above 80,000' is also Class G
expliation of NAS
http://www.aero.com/publications/helicoptorial/9601/9601.htm

Old 10-22-2014, 06:56 AM
  #181  
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Originally Posted by HoundDog
I'm partial to this chart myself, although developed for glider pilots it provides more information and is still valid.



I believe it is 60,000 feet where class E begins again above class A.

Regards
Frank
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Old 10-22-2014, 07:00 AM
  #182  
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Who the heck fears the....AMA!? lol OOooooOoooooh the boogey mans going to getcha!
Old 10-22-2014, 07:17 AM
  #183  
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Originally Posted by TimJ
Sport_pilot, please take the time to read all of the documents. It may help you. It may also be of good help for you to research and inform yourself of what the National Airspace System is.
I know what the NAS is and I know that the US Code limits the FAA authority to navigable airspace. So the NAS does not go to the ground even when the FAA or even a FAR says it does. The US Code overules anything the FAR's say.
Old 10-22-2014, 07:20 AM
  #184  
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Originally Posted by blhollo2
Who the heck fears the....AMA!? lol OOooooOoooooh the boogey mans going to getcha!
Who said anything about fearing the AMA!

Frank
Old 10-22-2014, 07:26 AM
  #185  
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Originally Posted by TimJ
0 to 700 feet AGL is considered Class G airspace of the National Airspace System.
Only that part above minimum allowed alttitude or navaigable airspace. Navigable airspace travels with a plane or helicopter when landing or traveling below minimums whitin the guidelines of part 91.
Old 10-22-2014, 07:29 AM
  #186  
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Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot
I know what the NAS is and I know that the US Code limits the FAA authority to navigable airspace. So the NAS does not go to the ground even when the FAA or even a FAR says it does. The US Code overules anything the FAR's say.
Here we go again.


Will you at least agree that in Class G airspace flight is governed by VFR flight rules?

Frank
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Old 10-22-2014, 07:35 AM
  #187  
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Originally Posted by phlpsfrnk
I'm partial to this chart myself, although developed for glider pilots it provides more information and is still valid.



I believe it is 60,000 feet where class G begins again above class A.

Regards
Frank
I forgot to mention that it is not 100 percent either. But I can see here, that the level heads understand that. Just as an example, one of the fields I fly at, we are marked on the navigation sectionals as class D airspace around the field. That helps buffer us flying our models from two airports that the field is in between.
Old 10-22-2014, 07:36 AM
  #188  
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Originally Posted by phlpsfrnk
Sport,
You have made this same argument before (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/ama-...mally-fly.html) and nobody bought it then and I doubt you can sell it here. Please do not regurgitate it here.

Frank
The airspace classifications are not actually called the NAS. All reference seems to be unofficial. The name itself says it is a system. The FAA does not have rights to make rules to unnavigable airspace (though they can expand it), therefore the NAS does not go to the ground execpt at and near airports.
Old 10-22-2014, 07:39 AM
  #189  
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Originally Posted by JohnShe
Is your yard right at he end of an airport runway? That is one way that your scenario could happen. I suppose there are other scenarios where a full size plane might have to fly that low. But, it might or might not be in violation of FAA regulations for full scale aircraft. If you had a spotter on hand, you might have avoided the collision. In any event, you are talking about a long complicated investigation, in which your need for legal advice would likely impoverish you, So don't worry about your license.
Don't forget about crop dusters. They are not limited to pure Southern crops. I have watched them at work in mid USA. along with close to Jetero RC Club here in NE Houston area. I have driven from Houston area to Upper Peninsula, MI, for last 18 years, using different routes so I get to see some great "dusting". Every so often one can see an RC airplane buzzing the area.
That trip is about to end. Selling my lake-front place up there, but still will be going to Chicago area (Arlington Heights) and Madison, WI each year. WHY? Grand-kids !
Old 10-22-2014, 07:40 AM
  #190  
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Originally Posted by phlpsfrnk
Here we go again.


Will you at least agree that in Class G airspace flight is governed by VFR flight rules?

Frank
Only when flying in a certified aircraft above minimim altitudes, flying below minimum altitude is breaking a big rule. If not certified, such as a hang glider, you can follow other rules, not the FAA but probably the hang glider CBO. We should be following the AMA. And I suspect eventually drones flying below minimum altitude will be following some other CBO rule.
Old 10-22-2014, 08:04 AM
  #191  
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Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot
Only when flying in a certified aircraft above minimim altitudes, flying below minimum altitude is breaking a big rule. .
Okay, it appears we agree on that point. Will you agree that minimum safe altitude over open water or sparsely populated areas is "an altitude allowing for a linear distance greater than 500 feet from any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure."

Frank
Old 10-22-2014, 08:17 AM
  #192  
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Originally Posted by phlpsfrnk
Okay, it appears we agree on that point. Will you agree that minimum safe altitude over open water or sparsely populated areas is "an altitude allowing for a linear distance greater than 500 feet from any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure."

Frank
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Old 10-22-2014, 08:25 AM
  #193  
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Originally Posted by TimJ
LOL, Are we having fun yet?
Old 10-22-2014, 08:28 AM
  #194  
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IF the NAS covers all airspace from ground level to ????? (not saying it does or does not), then if fhe FAA has been given the responsibility and authority by law to "protect the NAS" any activity that "endangers the NAS" would be subject to FAA control. ............................................ Think about that people/sheeple, consider that in context of the EPA, BLM, Homeland Security and the ever creeping bureaucratic proclivity to control the population.

But on the other hand I will fly my toy planes knowing that the possibility of the FAA punishing me are almost infinitesimal.

ct st to (theiI
Old 10-22-2014, 08:29 AM
  #195  
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Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot
The airspace classifications are not actually called the NAS. All reference seems to be unofficial. The name itself says it is a system. The FAA does not have rights to make rules to unnavigable airspace (though they can expand it), therefore the NAS does not go to the ground execpt at and near airports.
Sport P. using your own web info. in an earlier post, there are several definitions for "National Airspace System". I chose this one:
"National Airspace System (NAS):
"Technology / Aviation / National Airspace System (NAS) / The common network of U.S. Airspace, Air Navigation facilities. equipment, and services, airports or landing areas, aeronautical charts, information and services, rules, regulations and procedures."

That kind of malarkey can be transposed into numerous things in a court of law.

Plilipsfrnk has done a world of work providing all this great information. He is correct in that work. OTOH, you, Sir, are more interested in some feeble attempts to be the expert. As for me, I really don't give a Da_n about all the BS crap as it will change on a short basis as time goes on. Finally things will get in order. The big business drone companies will get their ways to sell machines, RC airplanes will hang around, maybe CL will get popular again, RC Gliders were flying out-of-sight some 50 years ago, FF was shooting way up before i got into it around 1955.
I have flown jet aircraft within the "Airspace" from all over the USA including Alaska,(Up to 48,000 ft. MSL and down between mountains) lots of over Gulf of Mexico,(Some at windshield with salt water spray altitude, up to 40,000 Ft. MSL) Atlantic Ocean, Spain, Morocco, et.al. and I have not yet had any serious problems with the definitions of Airspace. Above 18,000 ft MSL, the altimeter is set at 29.92 for all flying. At low altitudes the altimeter is set for area numbers. It keeps a lot of aluminum all in one piece.

I have had 2 USA Court systems with the FAA. (They lost both) Various people have liked some extra cash. How the "L" do you think AMA finally got the 72MHZ frequencies released back in Dec. 1981?
IMO it is time that we all got back to getting the AMA back on track for being a model airplane business, trying to keep our sport active and alive and stay within the boundaries of what the FAA brings down. The old saying of "You can't fight city hall." is an accurate one, however many "City Halls" have been agreeable when certain kinds of "How about ________ ???" It can be done!
Some of the population may need some more information concerning aviation discipline. That is something we all can share.

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Old 10-22-2014, 08:31 AM
  #196  
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Originally Posted by Hossfly
Don't forget about crop dusters. They are not limited to pure Southern crops. I have watched them at work in mid USA. along with close to Jetero RC Club here in NE Houston area. I have driven from Houston area to Upper Peninsula, MI, for last 18 years, using different routes so I get to see some great "dusting". Every so often one can see an RC airplane buzzing the area.
That trip is about to end. Selling my lake-front place up there, but still will be going to Chicago area (Arlington Heights) and Madison, WI each year. WHY? Grand-kids !
Crop dusters are allowed to fly below the minimum altitiude, when they do there is a bubble of navigable airspace around them.
Old 10-22-2014, 08:33 AM
  #197  
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Originally Posted by phlpsfrnk
Okay, it appears we agree on that point. Will you agree that minimum safe altitude over open water or sparsely populated areas is "an altitude allowing for a linear distance greater than 500 feet from any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure."

Frank
Correct and the airspace is considered navigable with bubbles around each building, vessel, vehicle, or person.
Old 10-22-2014, 08:35 AM
  #198  
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That kind of malarkey can be transposed into numerous things in a court of law.



Which is probably why I cannot seem to find it referenced in the regulations, nor the US Code.
Old 10-22-2014, 09:02 AM
  #199  
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Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot
Correct and the airspace is considered navigable with bubbles around each building, vessel, vehicle, or person.
Okay, so you are saying that with the possible exception of these little 500 ft bubbles scattered here and there over water and sparsely populated areas those VFR flight rules extend to the surface, would you agree with that?

Frank
Old 10-22-2014, 09:34 AM
  #200  
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