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Question for Horrace Cain, candidate for AMA Executive VP in 2014 re: AMA and drones

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Question for Horrace Cain, candidate for AMA Executive VP in 2014 re: AMA and drones

Old 10-03-2014, 04:15 PM
  #26  
warningshot
 
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Originally Posted by acerc
I actually agree with what you have said. I also agree that the whole world of FPV does not agree with you or I. I also believe the vast majority of AMA members do not desire FPV and believe what the AMA has been seeking is those outside of the AMA membership. I also believe by the very nature of the FPV crowd, the toy side, it is not in the AMA's best interest to seek them. But I also believe the AMA is not so much seeking the toy side but rather to benefit from the business side. If the AMA could generate legislation that would put them as the overseer's of FPV in general, that would be a large revenue stream compared to us modelers. This is what I believe they seek and I believe they would be willing to hurt our toy side to achieve that goal.
Robert-- Where do you get that the vast majority of AMA members do not desire FPV.
Old 10-03-2014, 04:22 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by warningshot
Robert-- Where do you get that the vast majority of AMA members do not desire FPV.
Simple, the numerous forums I participate on, and the couple hundred clubs I have visited in the last few years in my travels around the eastern half of the states. I have yet to see anyone at a club using FPV nor have I personally spoke with anyone that does. For the most part the average flyer does not see the point. The younger generations like to play with FPV but have no interest in following rules enough to play at a club facility. This has been my observations and my opinion is based on such.
As a matter of fact a simple trip through the FPV threads will yield an understanding of just how lacking the interest is compared the rest of the extremely vast forum.

Last edited by acerc; 10-03-2014 at 04:46 PM.
Old 10-03-2014, 05:46 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by acerc
Simple, the numerous forums I participate on, and the couple hundred clubs I have visited in the last few years in my travels around the eastern half of the states. I have yet to see anyone at a club using FPV nor have I personally spoke with anyone that does. For the most part the average flyer does not see the point.
Hopefully with Hoss's help AMA can grow that end of the business. LOL
Old 10-03-2014, 10:05 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by littlecrankshaf
Hopefully with Hoss's help AMA can grow that end of the business. LOL
LCS, most of the time I find it easy to decipher your codes. However this one is not so easy. In reality, I will be a bad choice for those that wish to get heavily into the drone and groan stuff. You guys are trying to get me into a fight about the FPV stuff. I have no problem with the person that likes to play around with the drone that uses the same amount of airspace that a BIG BIRD type model airplane uses with an RC pilot driving it. Just another way of RCing.
When it comes to sending any size machine out Cross-Country without the ability to keep it in visual control only by the eye, not some visual machine, then I do not buy that kind of operation. To me I see $$$ waving in someone's brain and that is not good for our sport. (Notice I seldom use "hobby") I consider model aviation a SPORT.

You guys might think I am some kind of dummy, but if I get elected there will be some serious heart-burn in various places. Nope, if not elected, then the war is over. If there is a business it will be for MODEL AVIATION in all current realms. There is a significant number of new DVPs that will be on the EC next year. Times are a changin', Ol' Pards.
Yet, there are also numbers of targets, and I may well be one.
Old 10-03-2014, 10:58 PM
  #30  
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Does anyone know exactly what the AMA is proposing for FPV?
Old 10-03-2014, 11:07 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by ira d
Does anyone know exactly what the AMA is proposing for FPV?
At this point, I don't have a clue. But with the $250,000.oo program that will send some of the top brass around the country for a while, there must be something simmering behind the ears.
Old 10-04-2014, 03:26 AM
  #32  
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Mr Cain,
I just came to realize what and how about your views. Sorry it took so long to figure it out. I now understand your position and will ask no other questions. Good luck in your quest!
Old 10-04-2014, 06:32 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by ira d
Does anyone know exactly what the AMA is proposing for FPV?
I do ! The AMA wants to waist money on them,our money ! they also want to put the rest of us normal rc planes flyers right in the sights of the FAA when the FPV flyers dont follow any rules and guess who will have to pay for that also ? joe

Last edited by joebahl; 10-04-2014 at 06:35 AM.
Old 10-04-2014, 05:20 PM
  #34  
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+1

Cheers bob T
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Old 10-04-2014, 06:11 PM
  #35  
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I think Horace is getting some attention this time!
Old 10-05-2014, 05:56 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by tailskid
I think Horace is getting some attention this time!
If he wins lets see if he remembers us and not the higher ups now who think that the Fpvs are the best money maker since hookers . lmao joe
Old 10-05-2014, 06:50 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by joebahl
If he wins lets see if he remembers us and not the higher ups now who think that the Fpvs are the best money maker since hookers . lmao joe
HMMM...Maybe the AMA should indeed start a brothel...One reason is the the low start up costs compared to the quarter mil for this FPV stuff. They'd just have to run it by hand fort awhile until things get going good.
Old 10-05-2014, 07:34 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Hossfly
OK Ace here goes the election: I, personally, do NOT feel it is in AMA's best interest to welcome all forms of FPV aerial RC aeromodeling.

I think this sentence will earn you far more votes than you'd imagine ......

One thing I would like to see clarified , not specifically from Hoss but from everyone else here in general also ; Are you folks making the distinction between "AMA doc # 550 legal" FPV and commercial drones ? Because I think ALL #550 compliant FPV for hobby entertainment IS as much a part of our hobby as any other sub genre (freeflight , turbine , floatplane , etc) , and that any commercial drone activity is about as related to hobby RC as our AMA is related to quilting !

I see many instances of "FPV" being used when I would hope the folks are talking about "Drone" . Remember , FPV in the AMA sense = doc # 550 , and Drone = commercial operations . I fear not our organization embracing FPV , but believe the higher ups are chasing somehow being relevant in the Drone operations that as a hobby based organization our AMA has NO right whatsoever becoming involved in . When the really big Drone $$$ begin to flow in we hobbyists of ALL types of flight will be swept away like yesterday's trash . It's called "Repurposing" or "Rebranding" by the corporate shmucks that have ruined our country along with the politicians , and don't for a minute think that it couldn't happen to us !
Old 10-05-2014, 07:47 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by init4fun
I think this sentence will earn you far more votes than you'd imagine ......
An unfortunate truth since most cannot draw a clear distinction between what is just another facet of our hobby and what isn't.

Originally Posted by init4fun
One thing I would like to see clarified , not specifically from Hoss but from everyone else here in general also ; Are you folks making the distinction between "AMA doc # 550 legal" FPV and commercial drones ? Because I think ALL #550 compliant FPV for hobby entertainment IS as much a part of our hobby as any other sub genre (freeflight , turbine , floatplane , etc) , and that any commercial drone activity is about as related to hobby RC as our AMA is related to quilting !

I see many instances of "FPV" being used when I would hope the folks are talking about "Drone" . Remember , FPV in the AMA sense = doc # 550 , and Drone = commercial operations . I fear not our organization embracing FPV , but believe the higher ups are chasing somehow being relevant in the Drone operations that as a hobby based organization our AMA has NO right whatsoever becoming involved in . When the really big Drone $$$ begin to flow in we hobbyists of ALL types of flight will be swept away like yesterday's trash . It's called "Repurposing" or "Rebranding" by the corporate shmucks that have ruined our country along with the politicians , and don't for a minute think that it couldn't happen to us !
Some real insight...I think.

Pretty much outlines the future of any self-serving business.

Just wish AMA would promote the hobby...over and beyond even its own existence...but alas all is constructed to only include themselves...as any business, self-preservation reins supreme.
Old 10-05-2014, 08:31 AM
  #40  
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There are many more regular rc plane flyers like me who think that the FPV flyers should have started their own non for proffit org and brought the unwanted attention on themselves . Its kinda to late now with my AMA up to its neck in the mess now and spending money on them . Just because the AMA took them in for what ever reason$$ does not mean the rest of us has to like it now that instead of making money it will be loosing it.Reminds me of the AMA park program thats anouther open wound for them. joe
Old 10-05-2014, 08:36 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by joebahl
There are many more regular rc plane flyers like me who think that the FPV flyers should have started their own non for proffit org and brought the unwanted attention on themselves . Its kinda to late now with my AMA up to its neck in the mess now and spending money on them . Just because the AMA took them in for what ever reason$$ does not mean the rest of us has to like it now that instead of making money it will be loosing it.Reminds me of the AMA park program thats anouther open wound for them. joe
You're right in wanting a separate org for FPV...the problem is the AMA will likely take them in as another SIG in the long run. The engineering over the years almost guarantees it. The park Program was an attempt to bring more modelers into the fold of all AMA...FPV will be no different IMO. Its more about org growth than promoting the hobby IMO
Old 10-05-2014, 08:48 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by littlecrankshaf
You're right in wanting a separate org for FPV...the problem is the AMA will likely take them in as another SIG in the long run. The engineering over the years almost guarantees it. The park Program was an attempt to bring more modelers into the fold of all AMA...FPV will be no different IMO. Its more about org growth than promoting the hobby IMO
Some of us dont see FPVs as a hobby and see it more like our kids playing video games . Are you really looking at the countryside with a FPV or just seeing how high and far you can go with out crashing ? To video or take pictures the country side ,Aspen mountians , death valley canyon of fire ,red rock ,giant redwood trees in Ca , buy a Harley or any other form of a motorcycle like i did when young and go video/ pictures of them in person like i did in 48 states . joe

Last edited by joebahl; 10-05-2014 at 08:51 AM.
Old 10-05-2014, 09:40 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by joebahl
Some of us dont see FPVs as a hobby and see it more like our kids playing video games . Are you really looking at the countryside with a FPV or just seeing how high and far you can go with out crashing ? To video or take pictures the country side ,Aspen mountians , death valley canyon of fire ,red rock ,giant redwood trees in Ca , buy a Harley or any other form of a motorcycle like i did when young and go video/ pictures of them in person like i did in 48 states . joe
AS I see it you kit the nail straight on, I have flown over the grand canyon, the red woods and red rock, and I have to say the view from a chopper is NOT as good driving the hi ways and hiking the trails to see the sights, and yea it takes time but most of us are in to big of a hurry any way.

Now about FPV if flown per the AMA guide lines fine, then it is part of the hobby, But any thing out side of that it is a DRONE and should be under the eyes of the FAA.

Now Farmers using it over they on property checking crops and herd's of animals is a good thing but most likely a NO coast permit with the FAA might be in order just to keep track of them.

local/state law enforcement because they would be flying over the 400 ft. limit should have qualified pilots and an observer/recording the flight, under FAA guide lines. except for the military, any other drones should all fall under the FAA watch.

Jus my way of thinking

Cheers Bob T
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Old 10-05-2014, 10:35 AM
  #44  
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Obviously only true computer users use DOS. Only real programmers have to replace a tape cartridge ever 30 minutes. Kids today just don't understand. We need to stop these "Windows" machines. Obviously they are not real computers, and are only used by hooligans who have no respect for REAL computer users like myself.

The government better crack down on those newfangled PCs... They need to be regulated into the ground!

Wait, you want to regulate
me too? I don't support government regulation - that's communism!


I'm going to go home and rant about it online with my 2014 Macbook Pro for everyone to hear. Computers these days are the downfall of society!




That's my two cents.
Old 10-05-2014, 11:15 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by DeferredDefect
Obviously only true computer users use DOS. Only real programmers have to replace a tape cartridge ever 30 minutes. Kids today just don't understand. We need to stop these "Windows" machines. Obviously they are not real computers, and are only used by hooligans who have no respect for REAL computer users like myself.

The government better crack down on those newfangled PCs... They need to be regulated into the ground!

Wait, you want to regulate
me too? I don't support government regulation - that's communism!


I'm going to go home and rant about it online with my 2014 Macbook Pro for everyone to hear. Computers these days are the downfall of society!




That's my two cents.
Ha Ha with all the FREE PDF plans online ? lmao
Old 10-05-2014, 01:07 PM
  #46  
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One can not compare the drone issue with other complaints of regulation is becoming communistic. The FAA has to do something about the issues it see's in the national airspace. The FAA is trying to separate the modeler from the others, which in my opinion is a daunting if not impossible task. My fear as is with other's is that the FAA groups us together or bans us all together. I have, and see, no issue with FPV following AMA's guideline's but the issue is everyone that does not follow, care to follow, or even know of, the AMA. We have all seen example's of individuals whom could care less about anything but having their fun irregardless of the cost to anyone for any reason. Like I have said before, I have been to hundreds of clubs in the eastern US and have yet to see anyone partaking of FPV. Nor have I spoke with anyone that does. But, I have seen and heard of many doing their own thing and creating trouble such as peeking into a neighbors window, flying over or around restricted areas, or causing damage to others and/ or property and disappearing.
Old 10-05-2014, 01:21 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by acerc
One can not compare the drone issue with other complaints of regulation is becoming communistic. The FAA has to do something about the issues it see's in the national airspace. The FAA is trying to separate the modeler from the others, which in my opinion is a daunting if not impossible task. My fear as is with other's is that the FAA groups us together or bans us all together. I have, and see, no issue with FPV following AMA's guideline's but the issue is everyone that does not follow, care to follow, or even know of, the AMA. We have all seen example's of individuals whom could care less about anything but having their fun irregardless of the cost to anyone for any reason. Like I have said before, I have been to hundreds of clubs in the eastern US and have yet to see anyone partaking of FPV. Nor have I spoke with anyone that does. But, I have seen and heard of many doing their own thing and creating trouble such as peeking into a neighbors window, flying over or around restricted areas, or causing damage to others and/ or property and disappearing.

There is nothing wrong with FPV, But as I have said before the FAA and the AMA should sat down togather and come up with some rules for RC flyers as a whole FPV included.

Once the rules are out anybody that wont abide by them should be open game for the FAA to deal with and it should not matter if they are a AMA member are not.
Old 10-05-2014, 01:40 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by ira d
There is nothing wrong with FPV, But as I have said before the FAA and the AMA should sat down togather and come up with some rules for RC flyers as a whole FPV included.

Once the rules are out anybody that wont abide by them should be open game for the FAA to deal with and it should not matter if they are a AMA member are not.
See thats my point ! We the regular rc airplane crowd have not been jacked around to much by the FAA for many years till the FPVs and drones came around .My AMA should have not sat down with anyone from the FAA if they would not have taken the FPVs /drones in .. WE the regular AMA are paying for lawyers and now education of FPV flyers . I learned to fly at my local AMA sanctioned club 40 years ago and dont see why if they are a AMA member why they cant learn that way also.
Old 10-05-2014, 02:45 PM
  #49  
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I can understand the desire to maintain what we've always understood is "model aviation"...as it mirrors what we have always know as "aviation"... But that, aviation, will constantly evolve...there will always be change. There is some amazing stuff coming that we can only imagine now...but by virtue of that imagination it will come to pass. Example; there will be a future of autonomous full scale man carrying air vessels... That's going to happen... Just consider, as in history, even before there were actual full-sized man carrying aircraft, there were models first...
Old 10-05-2014, 02:55 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by littlecrankshaf
I can understand the desire to maintain what we've always understood is "model aviation"...as it mirrors what we have always know as "aviation"... But that, aviation, will constantly evolve...there will always be change. There is some amazing stuff coming that we can only imagine now...but by virtue of that imagination it will come to pass. Example; there will be a future of autonomous full scale man carrying air vessels... That's going to happen... Just consider, as in history, even before there were actual full-sized man carrying aircraft, there were models first...
I know LCS but i also believe if its not broke dont try and fix it . There was no reason for the AMA to take them in and you know it was for money. I hope we can talk about this same thing in 5 years and see whos minds have changed their thoughts about it ,including me. joe

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