Dooz

I think the people with torches and pitchforks would serve the community better in the "drinking and flying" thread. Maybe Maxie's flying habits might not look so bad. Just saying, seems kind of hypocritical tuning this guy up when none of you have made a peep in that thread.

JohnShe

Nope, the purpose of the aircraft has nothing to do with the definition of drone. Drones may be used for all of the purposes listed as well as recreational. A drone pure and simple is a remote controlled or autonamously controlled aircraft. Our model airplanes are drones.

rrembert

I agree with your VFR routing statement, however I am cleared on Victor Airways frequently as part of an IFR flight. These clearances are ALWAYS part of the routing in the terminal areas of the flight...you know, the ones at low altitude where this guy is operating...it amazes me that neither of you or Max, seems to see the inherent danger here.

Sport_Pilot

Not many IFR flights on a clear day here. No traffic in the video. No rule he should stay clear of airways or remain below 400 feet. We have been flying sailplanes like this for years and AFAIK there have been no mid airs between sailplanes and full scale. So apparently you naysayers are blowing it out of your, you know what.

phlpsfrnk

Just so we are clear, you are saying there is no inherent danger?

Frank

Sport_Pilot

There is always a danger, a helicopter can fly right into your model at any time. But the danger is low enough that the AMA and FAA did not disallow this per their rules and regulations.

bradpaul

Which is the larger risk:

1. That a plane will crash due to pilot error
2. That a plane will crash due to mechanical failure
3. That a plane will crash due to inclement weather
4. That a plane will crash from hitting a Model Aircraft

And I submit that the order of cause of the crash is the same for both full scale and model aircraft.

Causes of Fatal Accidents by Decade (percentage)

[TABLE="width: 550, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 550, align: left"][TABLE="width: 554"]
[TR]
[TD="class: style14, width: 208, align: center"]Cause[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 44, align: center"]1950s[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 44, align: center"]1960s[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 44, align: center"]1970s[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 44, align: center"]1980s[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 47, align: center"]1990s[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 44, align: center"]2000s[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 45, align: center"]All[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: style3, width: 208, align: center"]Total Pilot Error[/TD]
[TD="class: style3, align: center"]58[/TD]
[TD="class: style3, align: center"]63[/TD]
[TD="class: style3, align: center"]44[/TD]
[TD="class: style3, align: center"]57[/TD]
[TD="class: style3, align: center"]55[/TD]
[TD="class: style3, align: center"]57[/TD]
[TD="class: style77, align: center"]53[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: style14, align: center"]Pilot Error[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, align: center"]42[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, align: center"]36[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, align: center"]25[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, align: center"]29[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, align: center"]29[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, align: center"]34[/TD]
[TD="class: style77, align: center"]32[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: style14, width: 208, align: center"] Pilot Error (weather related)[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 44, align: center"]10[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 44, align: center"]18[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 44, align: center"]14[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 44, align: center"]16[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 47, align: center"]21[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 44, align: center"]18[/TD]
[TD="class: style77, width: 45, align: center"]16[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: style14, width: 208, align: center"] Pilot Error (mechanical related)[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 44, align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 44, align: center"]9[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 44, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 44, align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 47, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 44, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="class: style77, width: 45, align: center"]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: style14, width: 208, align: center"] Other Human Error[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 44, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 44, align: center"]8[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 44, align: center"]9[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 44, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 47, align: center"]8[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 44, align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD="class: style77, width: 45, align: center"]6[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: style14, width: 208, align: center"] Weather[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 44, align: center"]16[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 44, align: center"]9[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 44, align: center"]14[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 44, align: center"]14[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 47, align: center"]8[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 44, align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD="class: style77, width: 45, align: center"]12[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: style14, width: 208, align: center"] Mechanical Failure[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 44, align: center"]21[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 44, align: center"]19[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 44, align: center"]20[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 44, align: center"]21[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 47, align: center"]18[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 44, align: center"]22[/TD]
[TD="class: style77, width: 45, align: center"]20[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: style14, width: 208, align: center"] Sabotage[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 44, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 44, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 44, align: center"]11[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 44, align: center"]12[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 47, align: center"]10[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 44, align: center"]9[/TD]
[TD="class: style77, width: 45, align: center"]8[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: style14, width: 208, align: center"] Other Cause[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 44, align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 44, align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 44, align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 44, align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 47, align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="class: style14, width: 44, align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: style77, width: 45, align: center"]1
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

I was unable to find any evidence of a plane crash attributed to a collision with a model airplane. There was a incident at a RC fly in a few years ago the full scale was damaged but did not crash.

thepamster

I could not disagree with you more. In my opinion the purpose of the aircraft has everything to do with the definition of drone, despite what you, the FAA, wikipedia, or any other individual or group says.

on_your_six

My Feedback: (11)

Wrong... purpose is everything. Everything is not a drone. I consider "drone" a bad word as used today.

JohnShe

Well, I guess that when you use a word, it means exactly what you choose it to mean neither more nor less. it will be fun conversing with you. It means that I cannot trust anything you say, since you make up your definitions as you go along.

thepamster

I have made my point and see no reason to make it any further. I just get irritated when someone who knows nothing about
the hobby calls my model airplane a drone and even more so when someone in the hobby considers my model airplane a drone.
Sad really because I feel that drones should have regulations and model airplanes should not.
Should the title of this thread be changed to "Model aircraft pilot" instead of "Drone pilot"? I think not. Do you?

thepamster

I have made my point and see no reason to make it any further. I just get irritated when someone who knows nothing about
the hobby calls my model airplane a drone and even more so when someone in the hobby considers my model airplane a drone.
Sad really because I feel that drones should have regulations and model airplanes should not.
Should the title of this thread be changed to "Model aircraft pilot" instead of "Drone pilot"? I think not. Do you?

FLAPHappy

My Feedback: (209)

Pamster: On the first page of this thread was the link to the news article, the first post. In paragraph 6&7 it quotes "Drone".

thepamster

I know. I have read the article as well as this entire thread, and that was a drone. The powered glider that I taught myself how to fly with back in the 80s was a model airplane, not a drone. I was just refering to the few people who have posted on this and other related threads who are model airplane pilots and consider our model airplanes to be in fact drones.
If you look up the definition of drone you certainly would be correct in that any remotely piloted vehicle is considered a drone according to those resources. I just disagree with that definition.
There was no such think as wikipedia back when I learned how to fly and a drone was something that was launched from a aircraft carrier for target practice and meant little else.

rgburrill

I like this definition: "a person who lives on the labor of others; parasitic loafer". Sounds like those non-AMA, FPV people who don't fly their UAVs by the rules.

rgburrill

You disagree with the accepted standard definition? Ok. Just an FYI, the Army at Ft Huachuca used Hobbico 60s for quite some time to teach drone pilots how to fly. And I do believe they were given a drone designation.
And this how thread is about people who intentionally use UAVs outside of the safety realm of the AMA and other like minded organizations. It's not above what is or is not a drone.

[email protected]

My Feedback: (1)

the more u talk about the more the faa or what ever will have to say get a life just fly your planes iam not reading anything more about the silly drones

FLAPHappy

My Feedback: (209)

I think about the word "Drone" and to me it is a remote controlled flying machine, "quad copter, jet, engine powered plane or Glider," that can be flown in the airspace. The Military uses computers to fly "Drones" by computer,as you all know, 100's to thousand of miles to a target, for observation, photos, attacks, whatever, and at any altitude to accomplish their objective.

Model Aircraft, are usually flown by VLOS, Drones can be flown out of visual sight, which Quad copters can be flown. Most of them have GPS which gives the Pilot an advantage. RC airplanes normally are flown within VLOS, and usually under 400Ft altitude without GPS. We can argue all day what is a drone, what is not a drone, this is my opinion only. The Government , FAA, and fellow modelers in the AMA, will continue to argue about this issue. My only concern is flying a RC drone, or airplane that could possibly hit a full size aircraft and cause damage or fatalities, within the AMA rules, then you put yourself at great risk and other people.

JohnShe

:-) ++

thepamster

So before they were given a drone designation were they designated as model airplanes?

And I am certain that you have never commented about something that was said that may have not been directly related to the thread topic.
Hey! What brand oil do you use?

JohnShe

If it ain't Pennzoil it Ain't oil. Anything else is just a slimy fluid.

smeckert

Six, your definition is (was) spot on until people didn't like that their models were being called toy airplanes. They wanted something bigger, tougher sounding. Others wanted to throw quadcoptor under the bus, so drone was allowed.
Now they got their wish and all models are drones.

bradpaul

Useless debate, the FAA and the AMA DO NOT USE the term DRONE. The correct term is UAS (unmanned aircraft systems) or specifically to what we call model airplanes sUAS (the s is for small).

Within the world of UAS ans sUAS the FAA does distinguish by use that being either RECREATIONAL or COMMERCIAL. PL 110-95 added a definition to be excluded from further regulation and gave a firm definition of a model aircraft.

(c) MODEL AIRCRAFT DEFINED.—
In this section, the term ‘‘model
aircraft’’ means an unmanned aircraft that is—
(1) capable of sustained flight in the atmosphere;
(2) flown within visual line of sight of the person operating
the aircraft; and
(3) flown for hobby or recreational purposes.

So a quadcopter flying FPV per AMA Doc 550 is a model aircraft
and
a Senior Telemaster towing gliders for compensation is not a model aircraft.

Both by the standard dictionary definition are drones.

Are we having fun yet?????????????????

thepamster

Drats. I'm using slimy fluid. Lol.

N410DC

This is an excellent point. The term "drone" is defined in the eye of the beholder, as it is not defined in black law, or FAA/AMA policy. Some modelers who fly FPV like to refer to their toys as drones, while some do not. Many authors in online and print articles use this term heavily, while others refuse to do so.

Call your aircraft whatever you want. Just be safe, and try not to hurt or kill anyone.