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Another Drone Pilot does it Again

Old 05-23-2015, 11:17 AM
  #1426  
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Originally Posted by rgburrill
All the while you are having fun with your little toy.
Please forgive the snippet but I really don't think anyone here is advocating our toys (yea, all the RC stuff we fly) being flown in the path of full scale... I think the argument centers around having unnecessary rules that will impact all of us in negative ways. There really is no way to make rules for these so called "drone jerks" without impacting all of us...at least to some degree...

The "drone jerk" will still be a problem no matter the rules... Sometimes responsibility can't be taught but accountability should always be inescapable. Purposely putting our toys in the path of full scale is wrong...no doubt about it... and those that cause an incident should be very weary of extreme consequences and not so much about specificity of laws or rules that may or may not allow their activity.
Old 05-23-2015, 11:24 AM
  #1427  
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i see we have a lot of smart people on the drones and some people dont know anything bout guns i carry a gun all the time been stopped by police and went on my way with my gun i know the laws
Old 05-23-2015, 12:55 PM
  #1428  
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Originally Posted by littlecrankshaf
Please forgive the snippet but I really don't think anyone here is advocating our toys (yea, all the RC stuff we fly) being flown in the path of full scale... I think the argument centers around having unnecessary rules that will impact all of us in negative ways. There really is no way to make rules for these so called "drone jerks" without impacting all of us...at least to some degree...

The "drone jerk" will still be a problem no matter the rules... Sometimes responsibility can't be taught but accountability should always be inescapable. Purposely putting our toys in the path of full scale is wrong...no doubt about it... and those that cause an incident should be very weary of extreme consequences and not so much about specificity of laws or rules that may or may not allow their activity.
That's exactly why I've advocated for a National Computer TEST for flying any R/C toy. All of us flying for any length of time, with or with out the AMA know the FAR's Rules & Safety Code. This test should be mandatory and some how it is published through the USA so if and when something does happen between any R/C TOY and a Maned Aircraft, The FAA/NTSB can't/doesn't/won't come after the group of us as a whole, just the individual that causes an indecent or accident. Just as the police don't arrest every driver because one driver breaks the law.
But then I can see opposition that some may have. Maybe they don't just like more restrictions or maybe they figure they might not be able to pass a TEST on the FAR's, Rules & Safety Code even after a study session. Who knows.

The AMA has a good program "Know Before U Fly" (http://knowbeforeyoufly.org/ )but it doesn't go far enough and make everyone aware Including NON R/Cers there are places R/C TOYs can not be flown.

OK tell me where I'm wrong and then U come up with a way to let the public as a whole know there are FAR's, Rules & a Safety Code that must be followed and if one individual violates these they must suffer the consequences of their actions and not all persons that fly R/C TOYs as a Whole.

Old 05-23-2015, 01:14 PM
  #1429  
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all clubs schould have someone with the knowhow to give a test to there members and sign them off as a number 0ne flyer and let the ama know all this something like a drivers test
Old 05-23-2015, 01:25 PM
  #1430  
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Originally Posted by littlecrankshaf
Please forgive the snippet but I really don't think anyone here is advocating our toys (yea, all the RC stuff we fly) being flown in the path of full scale... I think the argument centers around having unnecessary rules that will impact all of us in negative ways. There really is no way to make rules for these so called "drone jerks" without impacting all of us...at least to some degree...

The "drone jerk" will still be a problem no matter the rules... Sometimes responsibility can't be taught but accountability should always be inescapable. Purposely putting our toys in the path of full scale is wrong...no doubt about it... and those that cause an incident should be very weary of extreme consequences and not so much about specificity of laws or rules that may or may not allow their activity.
Crank, I agree 100%, that is the problem, that's exactly why I posted this thread.
Old 05-23-2015, 01:38 PM
  #1431  
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
i see we have a lot of smart people on the drones and some people dont know anything bout guns i carry a gun all the time been stopped by police and went on my way with my gun i know the laws
Owwee, you know gun laws, so do most of us here, by state and Federal Reg's. I do know Guns , the mechanics, types of ammo, carrie laws etc.
So you have been stopped by the police? What for??????????? Explain that in detail so I can try to understand. By the way, we are not talking about Gun Laws here, sorry to disappoint you, what we are discussing here is the current problems with irresponsible , so called Pilots which I have great disrespect for laws, that pose a threat to manned aircraft in our society. So go ahead and explain to all of us here, what are the Gun Laws, and why were you personally stopped by the Police?? Not that we care.
I need a good laugh.............

Last edited by FLAPHappy; 05-23-2015 at 01:42 PM.
Old 05-23-2015, 01:48 PM
  #1432  
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
all clubs schould have someone with the knowhow to give a test to there members and sign them off as a number 0ne flyer and let the ama know all this something like a drivers test
So. are you telling me you have this knowledge?.
Old 05-23-2015, 02:27 PM
  #1433  
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
all clubs schould have someone with the knowhow to give a test to there members and sign them off as a number 0ne flyer and let the ama know all this something like a drivers test

It's not AMA Club Members that are the problem ... having them take the TEST is only because U can not eliminate them just because they are AMA members since anyone under 18 can contact the AMA and become a member for FREE with out any prof they know any thing about Flying R/C Toys The Test Taken by every one accomplishes 2 things 1. Proves U know the FAR's, Rules & the Safety Code and if U are Licensed to fly U have taken the test and every one in the USA knows that U have at least ounce taken a TEST to prove U know the proper places to fly and those where not to fly. PERIOD. That Way the FAA/NTSB can't lump all R/Cers in with the rouges.
Old 05-23-2015, 07:07 PM
  #1434  
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Originally Posted by HoundDog

It's not AMA Club Members that are the problem ... having them take the TEST is only because U can not eliminate them just because they are AMA members since anyone under 18 can contact the AMA and become a member for FREE with out any prof they know any thing about Flying R/C Toys The Test Taken by every one accomplishes 2 things 1. Proves U know the FAR's, Rules & the Safety Code and if U are Licensed to fly U have taken the test and every one in the USA knows that U have at least ounce taken a TEST to prove U know the proper places to fly and those where not to fly. PERIOD. That Way the FAA/NTSB can't lump all R/Cers in with the rouges.
Just getting to the point...the reason tests won't work, just for the sake of brevity, is that the idiots we want to take them won't....
Old 05-23-2015, 07:27 PM
  #1435  
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Originally Posted by littlecrankshaf
Just getting to the point...the reason tests won't work, just for the sake of brevity, is that the idiots we want to take them won't....
Sorry but they would have to ... It would be required by the FAA ... Just like taking a a computer test at the DMV. If U fly R/C Toys without taking the TEST and passing it, It would be just like Driving with out a license. It has to be MANDATORY.
The FAA can make this happen because they have the right and the obligation to control anything that FLYS in the NAS except Kites and Birds.
If U don't think this is a workable solution then let's hear your suggestions Don't just say it won't work. Let's here from anyone would with a constructive way to solve this delima.
Old 05-23-2015, 08:32 PM
  #1436  
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Originally Posted by HoundDog
Sorry but they would have to ... It would be required by the FAA ... Just like taking a a computer test at the DMV. If U fly R/C Toys without taking the TEST and passing it, It would be just like Driving with out a license. It has to be MANDATORY.
The FAA can make this happen because they have the right and the obligation to control anything that FLYS in the NAS except Kites and Birds.
If U don't think this is a workable solution then let's hear your suggestions Don't just say it won't work. Let's here from anyone would with a constructive way to solve this delima.
What "delima"??? We already agree there is no fixing stupid...right? If or when someone harms another they should be held accountable...and yes, laws already provide for that. Just because there isn't a specific law to address a particular incident/situation doesn't mean there is carte blanche to do as we wish without repercussions.

Seriously, if someone hits a full scale plane, do you think he would be of the hook because there was no law or rule detailing that he must not????
Old 05-23-2015, 08:43 PM
  #1437  
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I agree it will have to be the FAA that will have the power to rein in the rouge flyers, first I think the FAA needs to start a education campaign with literature included in all kits sold
in the usa. This literature needs to include the penalty for endangering full scale planes and people and property on the ground and the penalty should be realistic, A 10k fine
on a first offense is too much. I think the FAA should use all media available to get the word out maybe even offer rewards to turn in someone you see flying in a unsafe manner.

Also I think local law enforcement need to trained to properly respond and deal with offenders, I think if the steps I outlined are followed this drone problem could be greatly
curtailed in a year or two.
Old 05-23-2015, 09:01 PM
  #1438  
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Originally Posted by littlecrankshaf
What "delima"??? We already agree there is no fixing stupid...right? If or when someone harms another they should be held accountable...and yes, laws already provide for that. Just because there isn't a specific law to address a particular incident/situation doesn't mean there is carte blanche to do as we wish without repercussions.

Seriously, if someone hits a full scale plane, do you think he would be of the hook because there was no law or rule detailing that he must not????
Agreed. If a drone brings down any size aircraft and people die the operator would likely be facing manslaughter charges under existing criminal laws.
Old 05-24-2015, 03:25 AM
  #1439  
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Originally Posted by ira d
I agree it will have to be the FAA that will have the power to rein in the rouge flyers, first I think the FAA needs to start a education campaign with literature included in all kits sold
in the usa. This literature needs to include the penalty for endangering full scale planes and people and property on the ground and the penalty should be realistic, A 10k fine
on a first offense is too much. I think the FAA should use all media available to get the word out maybe even offer rewards to turn in someone you see flying in a unsafe manner.

Also I think local law enforcement need to trained to properly respond and deal with offenders, I think if the steps I outlined are followed this drone problem could be greatly
curtailed in a year or two

ira d: U have it right but don't say how we accomplish it.

The manufactures include a warning with every KIT, RTF, RTC, BNF, Virtually everything they sell, to Fly safely and Join the AMA. How many times has any one read this in the first pages of the Manual and right after the Balancing instructions.
A Note in the manual or any thing but PROOF of the knowledge where and when you/we/ the IDIOT may fly R/C TOYs doesn't work. It doesn't really make the INDIVIDUAL responsible for their actions.
I really believe, If there is not some sort of proof of Required Knowledge of Where & When to fly R/C TOYs, and something does happen the FAA/NTSB is going to go (bonkers) and declare a blanket Decree against R/C TOYs that Fly.
We know we can't fix STUPID but we sure as HE]] can make sure the Individual offender is prosecuted and not the R/C community as a whole.


Now as to your statement " I think the FAA should use all media available to get the word out maybe even offer rewards to turn in someone you see flying in a unsafe manner. "
The problem is How do we as Group accomplish this and get to FAA/NTSB/AMA to do exactly what U and I have been saying all along? So let's stop criticizing each other here in this Forum and start making constructive efforts to a real and effective solution.

OH! PLZ stop making FUN of my Spell Checker. It only spells just slightly better than me. Thanks.
Old 05-24-2015, 07:54 AM
  #1440  
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Originally Posted by HoundDog
ira d: U have it right but don't say how we accomplish it.[/B]
The manufactures include a warning with every KIT, RTF, RTC, BNF, Virtually everything they sell, to Fly safely and Join the AMA. How many times has any one read this in the first pages of the Manual and right after the Balancing instructions.
A Note in the manual or any thing but PROOF of the knowledge where and when you/we/ the IDIOT may fly R/C TOYs doesn't work. It doesn't really make the INDIVIDUAL responsible for their actions.
I really believe, If there is not some sort of proof of Required Knowledge of Where & When to fly R/C TOYs, and something does happen the FAA/NTSB is going to go (bonkers) and declare a blanket Decree against R/C TOYs that Fly.
We know we can't fix STUPID but we sure as HE]] can make sure the Individual offender is prosecuted and not the R/C community as a whole.


Now as to your statement " I think the FAA should use all media available to get the word out maybe even offer rewards to turn in someone you see flying in a unsafe manner. "
The problem is How do we as Group accomplish this and get to FAA/NTSB/AMA to do exactly what U and I have been saying all along? So let's stop criticizing each other here in this Forum and start making constructive efforts to a real and effective solution.

OH! PLZ stop making FUN of my Spell Checker. It only spells just slightly better than me. Thanks.
Hey Hound Dog...Do you have any idea how the road to hell gets paved??? I realize you wish the best for the hobby and all concerned but the reality is that man can only screw things up...his record is perfect!
Old 05-24-2015, 08:46 AM
  #1441  
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What I can never understand is our inability to learn from obvious outcomes that the past has shown us... If some "test", requirement or license is implemented in regards to our hobby, that will mark the beginning of the end! Those do-gooders will not be happy with just a few standards or requirements...before the complete demise of our hobby they will require various other tests that include flight ability, health, age and so on.... Just look at the FAA and aviation now for the answer before contemplating your utopia. Keep that door closed at all costs IMO.
Old 05-24-2015, 09:10 AM
  #1442  
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i say what i know if anyone dont like it thats to bad at 83 this month i have been around
Old 05-24-2015, 12:46 PM
  #1443  
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Originally Posted by littlecrankshaf
What I can never understand is our inability to learn from obvious outcomes that the past has shown us... If some "test", requirement or license is implemented in regards to our hobby, that will mark the beginning of the end! Those do-gooders will not be happy with just a few standards or requirements...before the complete demise of our hobby they will require various other tests that include flight ability, health, age and so on.... Just look at the FAA and aviation now for the answer before contemplating your utopia. Keep that door closed at all costs IMO.
LC:
All doom & gloom ... The real Doom & Gloom is going to be when one of these goffey Quad guys mixes with a maned aircraft and the FAA/NTSB Bans all R/C TOYs every where. I've dealt with the FAA too since 1970 and yes the they keep trying to make new Regs all the time. and yes it would be great not to have more over sight of our Hobby/Sport, but I'm afraid that not, if but when, it happens we Responsible R/Cers will take it in the shorts.
Well if we just sit back and don't try to separate the Responsible R/Cers from the Idiots, It's my belief we will go down with them.
Now I guess that's Doom & Gloom too, But why won't U and some others around here take the Initiative to try and find a solution to our
"de - lim - a" ? That's if U want to do something other than find fault with wvery one that trys to be constructive instead of _______ OH Hell I just don't give a crap anymore you're right we can't do anything so I guess & U Win.
Old 05-24-2015, 01:02 PM
  #1444  
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Originally Posted by HoundDog
ira d: U have it right but don't say how we accomplish it.[/B]
The manufactures include a warning with every KIT, RTF, RTC, BNF, Virtually everything they sell, to Fly safely and Join the AMA. How many times has any one read this in the first pages of the Manual and right after the Balancing instructions.
A Note in the manual or any thing but PROOF of the knowledge where and when you/we/ the IDIOT may fly R/C TOYs doesn't work. It doesn't really make the INDIVIDUAL responsible for their actions.
I really believe, If there is not some sort of proof of Required Knowledge of Where & When to fly R/C TOYs, and something does happen the FAA/NTSB is going to go (bonkers) and declare a blanket Decree against R/C TOYs that Fly.
We know we can't fix STUPID but we sure as HE]] can make sure the Individual offender is prosecuted and not the R/C community as a whole.


Now as to your statement " I think the FAA should use all media available to get the word out maybe even offer rewards to turn in someone you see flying in a unsafe manner. "
The problem is How do we as Group accomplish this and get to FAA/NTSB/AMA to do exactly what U and I have been saying all along? So let's stop criticizing each other here in this Forum and start making constructive efforts to a real and effective solution.

OH! PLZ stop making FUN of my Spell Checker. It only spells just slightly better than me. Thanks.

It's true literature is included in most kits about joining the AMA but it is just a suggestion, If the FAA was to include literature it would have the force of law behind it. As for
getting the word out the FAA could use TV and Radio and puts pamphlets at all flying sites and hobby stores and notifications on hobby websites.

Last edited by ira d; 05-24-2015 at 08:54 PM.
Old 05-24-2015, 05:33 PM
  #1445  
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You can't legislate common sense, more laws won't accomplish anything, idiots don't obey what we have now, more won't accomplish squat.
Old 05-24-2015, 09:01 PM
  #1446  
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Originally Posted by bhady
You can't legislate common sense, more laws won't accomplish anything, idiots don't obey what we have now, more won't accomplish squat.

It is true you can't legislate common sense, That being said the proper laws enforced properly can help to stem the tide of rogue flyers especially the ones that fly
close to airports. No one solution will fix everything but you have to start somewhere.
Old 05-25-2015, 05:46 AM
  #1447  
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Originally Posted by bhady
You can't legislate common sense, more laws won't accomplish anything, idiots don't obey what we have now, more won't accomplish squat.



Originally Posted by ira d
It is true you can't legislate common sense, That being said the proper laws enforced properly can help to stem the tide of rogue flyers especially the ones that fly
close to airports. No one solution will fix everything but you have to start somewhere.
I'm not suggesting to LEGISLATE or make any NEW LAWS.....Just trying to get the Public, News Media, FAA/NTSB to realize that 99.9% of us fly responsibly and don't condone the IDIOTs. Some how we must SEPARATE us from the Idiots. It's not about teaching anyone anything but the above mentioned Public, News media, FAA/NTSB, & anyone that might ave the power to stop all R/C TOY Airplane flying because of the actions of the .1%. Of course U can't even get these types to even read a WARNING. We have to be able to separate us from them in the eyes of the Public, News Media, & FAA/NTS.

Now does any one have any idea how to accomplish this Separation in the eyes the Public News media FAA/NTS. This is our the R/C Worlds major problem i.e. The perception that all R/C TOY flyers are irresponsible people and should R/C flying should be stopped before we kill some one. PERIOD.

Again it's not a matter of Education but of Separation.
"Get it, got it, good".
Old 05-25-2015, 07:14 AM
  #1448  
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Hound Dog, I assume you drive motor vehicles... I don't presume your are an idiot driver although there are many. So, your assertion that everyone thinks the regular everyday model airplane flying geeks are the problem geeks is preposterous.

FWIW it really is the "somebody has to do something" criers, even within our own ranks no less, that are the ones that are calling for more clumping and lumping. BTW, the use of the word "rogue" in the context of model airplane flying geeks is hilarious when you think about it some. LOL Just a wacky world nowadays...
Old 05-25-2015, 09:16 AM
  #1449  
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Originally Posted by littlecrankshaf
Hound Dog, I assume you drive motor vehicles... I don't presume your are an idiot driver although there are many. So, your assertion that everyone thinks the regular everyday model airplane flying geeks are the problem geeks is preposterous.

FWIW it really is the "somebody has to do something" criers, even within our own ranks no less, that are the ones that are calling for more clumping and lumping. BTW, the use of the word "rogue" in the context of model airplane flying geeks is hilarious when you think about it some. LOL Just a wacky world nowadays...
LCS:
Old Man if U are not part of the solution U defiantly are the Problem.
Have U listened to the way the News Media portrays R/C Flying (DRONES) every time there is an insedent between some Idiot with his R/C TOY getting in the way of a maned aircraft or landing on the white house lawn or flying over some bridge or too close to a News Chopper. The News Media Lumps all R/Cers together no mater
the cercumstances if for now other reason but to sensationalize their story.

How about instead of criticizing every one here why don't U with your wisdom from Old Age tell us how U preceive the problem and a way to fix the Problem as U see it. That's if U even think there is a problem.
LCS: U Have a good day Now.
Old 05-25-2015, 09:40 AM
  #1450  
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Originally Posted by HoundDog
LCS:
Old Man if U are not part of the solution U defiantly are the Problem.
Have U listened to the way the News Media portrays R/C Flying (DRONES) every time there is an insedent between some Idiot with his R/C TOY getting in the way of a maned aircraft or landing on the white house lawn or flying over some bridge or too close to a News Chopper. The News Media Lumps all R/Cers together no mater
the cercumstances if for now other reason but to sensationalize their story.

How about instead of criticizing every one here why don't U with your wisdom from Old Age tell us how U preceive the problem and a way to fix the Problem as U see it. That's if U even think there is a problem.
LCS: U Have a good day Now.
Look HD... Not criticizing everyone here...just pointing out, that calling for FAA to implement a regulation to require testing for flying MA, predicated on the premise of preventing said regulation, is circle logic... If you could admit that, possibly we could embark on meaningful discussion...otherwise it's just us agreeing to disagree...which is less than worthless.

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