Another Drone Pilot does it Again
#1452
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Look HD... Not criticizing everyone here...just pointing out, that calling for FAA to implement a regulation to require testing for flying MA, predicated on the premise of preventing said regulation, is circle logic... If you could admit that, possibly we could embark on meaningful discussion...otherwise it's just us agreeing to disagree...which is less than worthless.
OK Let's agree that getting the FAA involved with some test is a bad Idea. That being said I have 2 Questions.
1.) Do U perceive any problems and if so What are they ?
2.) If U do see said problems What do U suppose we as a Responsible group of R/C enthusiasts
can do to curtail/cut off/stop said Problems before they become insurmountable.
PLZ let us here your solution to any and all problems not just criticize others for their Ideas.
#1453
Originally Posted by bhady
You can't legislate common sense, more laws won't accomplish anything, idiots don't obey what we have now, more won't accomplish squat.
I'm not suggesting to LEGISLATE or make any NEW LAWS.....Just trying to get the Public, News Media, FAA/NTSB to realize that 99.9% of us fly responsibly and don't condone the IDIOTs. Some how we must SEPARATE us from the Idiots. It's not about teaching anyone anything but the above mentioned Public, News media, FAA/NTSB, & anyone that might ave the power to stop all R/C TOY Airplane flying because of the actions of the .1%. Of course U can't even get these types to even read a WARNING. We have to be able to separate us from them in the eyes of the Public, News Media, & FAA/NTS.
Now does any one have any idea how to accomplish this Separation in the eyes the Public News media FAA/NTS. This is our the R/C Worlds major problem i.e. The perception that all R/C TOY flyers are irresponsible people and should R/C flying should be stopped before we kill some one. PERIOD.
Again it's not a matter of Education but of Separation. "Get it, got it, good".
You can't legislate common sense, more laws won't accomplish anything, idiots don't obey what we have now, more won't accomplish squat.
I'm not suggesting to LEGISLATE or make any NEW LAWS.....Just trying to get the Public, News Media, FAA/NTSB to realize that 99.9% of us fly responsibly and don't condone the IDIOTs. Some how we must SEPARATE us from the Idiots. It's not about teaching anyone anything but the above mentioned Public, News media, FAA/NTSB, & anyone that might ave the power to stop all R/C TOY Airplane flying because of the actions of the .1%. Of course U can't even get these types to even read a WARNING. We have to be able to separate us from them in the eyes of the Public, News Media, & FAA/NTS.
Now does any one have any idea how to accomplish this Separation in the eyes the Public News media FAA/NTS. This is our the R/C Worlds major problem i.e. The perception that all R/C TOY flyers are irresponsible people and should R/C flying should be stopped before we kill some one. PERIOD.
Again it's not a matter of Education but of Separation. "Get it, got it, good".
what the FAA could do. I think anybody who knows anything about modeling knows that these problems with conflicts with full scale aircraft is a fairly recent situation and they also
know that the majority of the problems don't come from established flying sites. I think it should be the AMA that educate the FAA in areas they don't understand about the situation.
#1454
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I don't think it's so much a matter of separation as it is a matter of enforcement, Also I don't it's so much what we the everyday modeler can do as we have no enforcement power but
what the FAA could do. I think anybody who knows anything about modeling knows that these problems with conflicts with full scale aircraft is a fairly recent situation and they also
know that the majority of the problems don't come from established flying sites. I think it should be the AMA that educate the FAA in areas they don't understand about the situation.
what the FAA could do. I think anybody who knows anything about modeling knows that these problems with conflicts with full scale aircraft is a fairly recent situation and they also
know that the majority of the problems don't come from established flying sites. I think it should be the AMA that educate the FAA in areas they don't understand about the situation.
That being said what do U think the AMA has been doing for more than 6 years. Meeting after meeting with the FAA to help them understand R/C Model aviation and how it should be or better yet not be dealt with the FAA and the FAA MODERNIZATION AND REFORM ACT OF2012.
Let me ask U do U really believe that the media, public or the FAA see any difference between your local club making NOISE out in a pasture next to a new housing development and some IDIOT flying a Quad over his neighbor hood ,Under the final approach to Kennedy?
Last edited by HoundDog; 05-25-2015 at 11:34 AM.
#1455
The News media and the Public know very little if anything at all except DRONES are Dangerous to the flying public and all R/C TOYs are DRONES and therefore DANGEROUS to the public. This is where the PROBLEM lies. No one but us know that we the responsible R/Cers are not the problem. That being said we have to find a way that we SEPARATE our selves from the IDIOT, less we be swept up with them when something does happen. The FAA/NTSB only know that if there is a problem they can eliminate it by regulating it out of existence, all of it. PERIOD.
That being said what do U think the AMA has been doing for more than 6 years. Meeting after meeting with the FAA to help them understand R/C Model aviation and how it should be or better yet not be dealt with the FAA and the FAA MODERNIZATION AND REFORM ACT OF2012.
Let me ask U do U really believe that the media, public or the FAA see any difference between your local club making NOISE out in a pasture next to a new housing development and some IDIOT flying a Quad over his neighbor hood ,Under the final approach to Kennedy?
That being said what do U think the AMA has been doing for more than 6 years. Meeting after meeting with the FAA to help them understand R/C Model aviation and how it should be or better yet not be dealt with the FAA and the FAA MODERNIZATION AND REFORM ACT OF2012.
Let me ask U do U really believe that the media, public or the FAA see any difference between your local club making NOISE out in a pasture next to a new housing development and some IDIOT flying a Quad over his neighbor hood ,Under the final approach to Kennedy?
the AMA needs hire a public relations firm to get the word out to the media and I do know they have been working with the FAA in fact I attended some of the meeting at the AMA conv in Calif.
#1456
Another idiot........................
[h=1]Drone Crashes, Hits 2 People During Marblehead Parade[/h]
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/05/2...lehead-parade/
[h=1]Drone Crashes, Hits 2 People During Marblehead Parade[/h]
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/05/2...lehead-parade/
#1457
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Another idiot........................
Drone Crashes, Hits 2 People During Marblehead Parade
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/05/2...lehead-parade/
Drone Crashes, Hits 2 People During Marblehead Parade
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/05/2...lehead-parade/
Even the Police didn't think it warranted a citation. Wonder how many Lawyers have already called the guy that it fell on.
#1458
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LCS:
OK Let's agree that getting the FAA involved with some test is a bad Idea. That being said I have 2 Questions.
1.) Do U perceive any problems and if so What are they ?
2.) If U do see said problems What do U suppose we as a Responsible group of R/C enthusiasts
can do to curtail/cut off/stop said Problems before they become insurmountable.
PLZ let us here your solution to any and all problems not just criticize others for their Ideas.
OK Let's agree that getting the FAA involved with some test is a bad Idea. That being said I have 2 Questions.
1.) Do U perceive any problems and if so What are they ?
2.) If U do see said problems What do U suppose we as a Responsible group of R/C enthusiasts
can do to curtail/cut off/stop said Problems before they become insurmountable.
PLZ let us here your solution to any and all problems not just criticize others for their Ideas.
Ok, that seemed a bit too simple... So i'll go on just a little more... In our world now we look to licensing, insurance, permits etc... to do whatever...but what if we took another strategy??? People that are intent on harming others should be very weary that they are not only putting others at risk with their actions but also their own life...An example; Drunk driver causes a death...he should be put to death!!
Fly your toy in front of the full scale airplane that I am in...the pilot lands, he and I find you, then we beat your monkey ass! LOL
Seriously, our society has veered way off course with all the PC crapola. We need to start putting these idiots in front of a panel of jurors for reckless endangerment...the jurors should give punishments that money can't buy the idiot a way out...beat his butt on the county square or possibly put his lights out...let the jury decide on an individual case by case basis. NO fines, NO imprisonment...just his skin or even his life...
So, fly your toys... don't be a dumbass, consider others as yourself or else! Oh, that's my utopia, however unrealistic!!! but you asked.
Last edited by littlecrankshaf; 05-25-2015 at 06:30 PM.
#1459
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Hound dog, I agree with some of your statements but the video that Brad posted is just another idiot flying a Drone. First he broke all the rules of the AMA and the FAA by flying this thing over a crowd of people, right there he violated those rules. The media was not at fault, they just reported this. The fault lies with the clown that flew this in a very populated area and it could have been a lot worse. He should be given a stiff fine by the court, and a week in the slammer, which will never happen in our great society.
#1460
That's exactly why I've advocated for a National Computer TEST for flying any R/C toy. All of us flying for any length of time, with or with out the AMA know the FAR's Rules & Safety Code. This test should be mandatory and some how it is published through the USA so if and when something does happen between any R/C TOY and a Maned Aircraft, The FAA/NTSB can't/doesn't/won't come after the group of us as a whole, just the individual that causes an indecent or accident. Just as the police don't arrest every driver because one driver breaks the law.
But then I can see opposition that some may have. Maybe they don't just like more restrictions or maybe they figure they might not be able to pass a TEST on the FAR's, Rules & Safety Code even after a study session. Who knows.
The AMA has a good program "Know Before U Fly" (http://knowbeforeyoufly.org/ )but it doesn't go far enough and make everyone aware Including NON R/Cers there are places R/C TOYs can not be flown.
OK tell me where I'm wrong and then U come up with a way to let the public as a whole know there are FAR's, Rules & a Safety Code that must be followed and if one individual violates these they must suffer the consequences of their actions and not all persons that fly R/C TOYs as a Whole.
But then I can see opposition that some may have. Maybe they don't just like more restrictions or maybe they figure they might not be able to pass a TEST on the FAR's, Rules & Safety Code even after a study session. Who knows.
The AMA has a good program "Know Before U Fly" (http://knowbeforeyoufly.org/ )but it doesn't go far enough and make everyone aware Including NON R/Cers there are places R/C TOYs can not be flown.
OK tell me where I'm wrong and then U come up with a way to let the public as a whole know there are FAR's, Rules & a Safety Code that must be followed and if one individual violates these they must suffer the consequences of their actions and not all persons that fly R/C TOYs as a Whole.
flying unsafely has already taken the test?
#1461
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Most of these people ,like in Brads Video he posted, surely was not an AMA Member, he should know the Rules, apparently he knew nothing.
This is a bone I chew on with the AMA, hell they will give anybody a card,they want the dues money, that doe's not mean he can fly over people and create hazards to life, property,and including manned aircraft in any airspace just because he has the AMA Card. This in my opinion, is a question the AMA should answer and also the FAA. I don't like the FAA getting involved with this, don't get me wrong, all I am trying to say is something has to be done or somebody will get hurt of killed if they just shove this under the rug.
#1462
Ira, if a person fly's in an unsafe manner and violates AMA and FAA Safety Rules that exist now in print, He could be putting his flying participation in jeopardy, thus be suspended by a local club if he is a member, and suspended by the AMA. If he has taken any test written, but has not shown satisfactory flying ability, he should have not been given permission to begin with and not given the Card.
Most of these people ,like in Brads Video he posted, surely was not an AMA Member, he should know the Rules, apparently he knew nothing.
This is a bone I chew on with the AMA, hell they will give anybody a card,they want the dues money, that doe's not mean he can fly over people and create hazards to life, property,and including manned aircraft in any airspace just because he has the AMA Card. This in my opinion, is a question the AMA should answer and also the FAA. I don't like the FAA getting involved with this, don't get me wrong, all I am trying to say is something has to be done or somebody will get hurt of killed if they just shove this under the rug.
Most of these people ,like in Brads Video he posted, surely was not an AMA Member, he should know the Rules, apparently he knew nothing.
This is a bone I chew on with the AMA, hell they will give anybody a card,they want the dues money, that doe's not mean he can fly over people and create hazards to life, property,and including manned aircraft in any airspace just because he has the AMA Card. This in my opinion, is a question the AMA should answer and also the FAA. I don't like the FAA getting involved with this, don't get me wrong, all I am trying to say is something has to be done or somebody will get hurt of killed if they just shove this under the rug.
The AMA position is the card shows you have insurance not that you know how to fly and I am ok with that, We have been flying models for many decades with no problems until recently. IMO the
only thing that can be done about the rogue flyers is for the FAA to get involved and began to prosecute unsafe flying. IMO having people take a test of some type to show they know the rules
and maybe to show their proficy may be ok but that alone wont do much to stop the rogue flyers that operate in a unsafe manner.
#1464
Hound dog, I agree with some of your statements but the video that Brad posted is just another idiot flying a Drone. First he broke all the rules of the AMA and the FAA by flying this thing over a crowd of people, right there he violated those rules. The media was not at fault, they just reported this. The fault lies with the clown that flew this in a very populated area and it could have been a lot worse. He should be given a stiff fine by the court, and a week in the slammer, which will never happen in our great society.
Let me tell you , Your 100% right about the media , at least here in Boston . Our local broadcast news (channels 4 , 5 , and 7) all reported it as a technogeek/photography hobbyist with a mistakenly run away toy (without the good common sense of where and where NOT to get his photos) rather than any kinds of national threat . As it should be cause that's what it was , some doofus who really should have known better but with not any kinds of evil intent . He's just darned lucky that the guy he hit only had what was reported as a "minor cut" cause more serious injuries would have resulted in legal charges , just as should be if anyone is badly hurt through someone's negligence . The device the news showed was big enough to have poked out an eye had the guy looked up at the wrong time , and by the stroke of luck that he didn't and that is all that mattered . I'm proud that here in Boston folks like this don't get charged for "coulda hurt someone" , and also that when someone does hurt someone , badly , we hold them accountable for the "did hurt someone" like that bomber we sentenced to die for killing 2 of the 4 dead at the Boston marathon . We know the difference here in Boston between a dolt with a toy VS a terrorist with an agenda and we act accordingly and get it right far more than we ever get it wrong . It's funny , all these threads predicting doom and gloom for the entire hobby being just as close as the next bad press news story . Well , here we have a person struck and because the injury was minor it got barely two minutes of on air reporting time . I think , at least here in Boston , the RC hobby will be fine , and the idiots will face whatever consequences their actions bring without taking the rest of the hobby down with them ....
#1465
passed some sort of competency test will help the issue we are discussing here, As I doubt many of the people that are causing the incidents we hear about on the news
are AMA members.
#1466
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Come on guys the problem as I see it is NOT that there are IDIOTS out there Flying mainly QUADS in an unsafe manor. HE[[ there are Drunks on the road but Unlike the DRUNKS, The Public and especially the NEWS MEDIA lump all R/C Flyers together as one irresponsible bunch. The thing we must do is some how get the Public & the News Media to look at the Irresponsible QUAD flyers as Drunks and therefore Separate them from all the rest of (The responsible drivers) Responsible R/C Flyers whether their are Quad Flyers, Heli, 3D, Scale or what ever. We must be looked on as different and separate than the IDIOTS out there.
If this is not the real problem then tell me what the real problem is and how we as R/C flyers can fix the Real Problems as U see them.
If this is not the real problem then tell me what the real problem is and how we as R/C flyers can fix the Real Problems as U see them.
#1467
Come on guys the problem as I see it is NOT that there are IDIOTS out there Flying mainly QUADS in an unsafe manor. HE[[ there are Drunks on the road but Unlike the DRUNKS, The Public and especially the NEWS MEDIA lump all R/C Flyers together as one irresponsible bunch. The thing we must do is some how get the Public & the News Media to look at the Irresponsible QUAD flyers as Drunks and therefore Separate them from all the rest of (The responsible drivers) Responsible R/C Flyers whether their are Quad Flyers, Heli, 3D, Scale or what ever. We must be looked on as different and separate than the IDIOTS out there.
If this is not the real problem then tell me what the real problem is and how we as R/C flyers can fix the Real Problems as U see them.
If this is not the real problem then tell me what the real problem is and how we as R/C flyers can fix the Real Problems as U see them.
#1468
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Come on guys the problem as I see it is NOT that there are IDIOTS out there Flying mainly QUADS in an unsafe manor. HE[[ there are Drunks on the road but Unlike the DRUNKS, The Public and especially the NEWS MEDIA lump all R/C Flyers together as one irresponsible bunch. The thing we must do is some how get the Public & the News Media to look at the Irresponsible QUAD flyers as Drunks and therefore Separate them from all the rest of (The responsible drivers) Responsible R/C Flyers whether their are Quad Flyers, Heli, 3D, Scale or what ever. We must be looked on as different and separate than the IDIOTS out there.
If this is not the real problem then tell me what the real problem is and how we as R/C flyers can fix the Real Problems as U see them.
If this is not the real problem then tell me what the real problem is and how we as R/C flyers can fix the Real Problems as U see them.
Probably the best sentence in this whole mishmash!!! Couldn't agree more...but then you went and said We... Who is We??? AMA??
#1469
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I never said it was OK to take chances with people's live nor do I believe I implied such. I also don't believe that by the AMA only allowing membership to persons that have
passed some sort of competency test will help the issue we are discussing here, As I doubt many of the people that are causing the incidents we hear about on the news
are AMA members.
passed some sort of competency test will help the issue we are discussing here, As I doubt many of the people that are causing the incidents we hear about on the news
are AMA members.
#1470
I don't know about that...how about some factual reference to backup that assertion, please. So far, all the incidents I can remember any serious harm to anyone were caused by AMA members...but Oh,well... I guess it stands to reason that since there are multitudes of them as in the AMA, I guess we might here a little bit more about others than AMAers...
the conflicts with full scale that have been so prevalent lately. I know it is possible that AMA members could be involved that is why I said I doubt that many of the people
causing the incidents are AMA members.
#1471
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Even if the pilot has every intention of flying safely, clear of airports, below 400ft, these machines still have the "technology" to fly away by themselves.
This video of a DJI Inspire is a perfect example. (this is a 7lb model)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vioiVWP47dA
This video of a DJI Inspire is a perfect example. (this is a 7lb model)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vioiVWP47dA
#1473
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Another top of the news story today. These incidents keep getting more frequent, almost like someone is wanting the hammer to fall on us. What kind of idiot flies at 2000' above a park in New York?
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/05/29...on-with-drone/
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/05/29...on-with-drone/
#1474
In my opinion, the fatal flaw in the AMA's role as a "community based organization" is that the AMA does not have any meaningful enforcement processes. Each one of these events demonstrates that only the FAA/NTSB can have any meaningful impact. Pretty soon the regulators and lawmakers will realize that the only effective way to control operations is with law and regulation, and those laws and regulations will only get more restrictive. As I've said before, I think we'll ultimately end up at max 400' AGL outside 5nm from any airport, nothing inside 5nm of an airport without explicit permission, nothing over people, nothing over 55lbs, and perhaps even speed restrictions. Those who have one of the sUAS licenses may get some ability to do some of the above, but that remains to be seen. Size and speed controls are the only way to impact the energy in the "the system" that is the model aircraft.
Last edited by franklin_m; 05-29-2015 at 11:22 AM.
#1475
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In my opinion, the fatal flaw in the AMA's role as a "community based organization" is that the AMA does not have any meaningful enforcement processes. Each one of these events demonstrates that only the FAA/NTSB can have any meaningful impact. Pretty soon the regulators and lawmakers will realize that the only effective way to control operations is with law and regulation, and those laws and regulations will only get more restrictive. As I've said before, I think we'll ultimately end up at max 400' AGL outside 5nm from any airport, nothing inside 5nm of an airport without explicit permission, nothing over people, nothing over 55lbs, and perhaps even speed restrictions. Those who have one of the sUAS licenses may get some ability to do some of the above, but that remains to be seen. Size and speed controls are the only way to impact the energy in the "the system" that is the model aircraft.
Model Fields with in 5 miles of an air port are not the problem either. I know just off hand of 3 model fields with in 5 miles of towered air ports that have never in all the years of their existence caused a single incident or accident with a full scale man carrying airplane.
Model R/C airplanes of any size and weight / Speed are not the problem either. Never have been never will be. It's the Idiot with a Quad (that takes NO skill to fly) flying where and when they are not supposed too. Again Like the GUN R/C Toys are not the problem even Quads when used properly and flown when and where permitted Are not a problem. Taking away or severely restricting R/C Toys is not the answer. Educating the FAA/NTSB and the IDIOT is what has to be accomplished by all of us and the AMA for the sake of our Hobby/Sport.
U can disagree with this all U want but then Don't just that curtailing our hobby/sport is not a viable answer either.