ira d

You are correct when you say it will have to be the FAA/NTSB that will have to deal these incidents we have been hearing about lately something that I have been saying for awhile now. I have
never liked the idea of one set of rules for CBO members and different rules for none members, To me if something is unsafe it does not matter if you are a member of some org or not.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

HD, you are on target. IMO

That's the true function of our academy... To teach and learn... Too bad it gets clogged up with all the side crap... How to change that is quite the puzzle in today's screwed up mess.

ira d

I agree with most of what you say except I don't see there is really anything we as individuals can do. I do agree that just curtailing our hobby is not the answer either.
The FAA IMO needs to begin getting the word out about penalties for unsafe operations of model aircraft and let it be known models that are not operated from
disnagated RC flying sites will come under closer scrutiny.

HoundDog

My Feedback: (49)

Cranky:
Thanks U, and a few others here that under stand the real problem. There are no easy answer either. That being said we can not just roll over and play dead. We as a community of like minded individuals must do something before the powers that be do something we will all regret. It's our responsibility and duty as AMA members to see to it that our Hobby/Sport stays as is and not overly restricted because of a few irresponsible IDIOTS. That being said, Let's all here try to be positive and find a solution that all can agree with.

HoundDog

My Feedback: (49)

ira d:
" I don't see there is really anything we as individuals can do"
Maybe not as individuals but there 170+ thousand of us. I'll bet that more than 90% don't have any idea how perilous our situation is. When I try to talk with club members (and I belong to 5 AMA clubs) about what could happen to our Hobby/Sport, they don't want to hear it. Most shrug it off or say "I'm just here to fly, I don't need or want to be bothered with the politics". If that's the attributed of most AMA members we are in serious trouble. JMHO

FLAPHappy

My Feedback: (209)

OK here is ANOTHER NEAR Miss in NEW YORK. When is the time to do something????. One day it going to be fatalities (many) on an airliner.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/05/29...on-with-drone/

An people are crying the blues about insurance? what knuckleheads these idiots are.

ira d

I also sometimes will discuss this with my fellow club members and many don't follow these discussions at least not closely or follow the news either. I really think it will have to be the AMA that
will have to spearhead discussion with the FAA on this subject and also ramp up public relations and call the news media and asked to be interviewed, If you or me was to call CNN, ABC, we
would not get a return call much less get on the air.

HoundDog

My Feedback: (49)

I believe that a $250 thousand dollar fine and 5 years in federal prison is not only appropriate for pointing a Laser at aircraft in flight but for any one that would fly a QUAD or any R/C TOY in the vicinity of passenger airliners it is very appropriate. This would go a long way of solving the problem of blanket restriction of R/C TOYs and disassociate the Irresponsible Individual from the 99.99% of responsible R/Cers. Now how we get the FAA/NTSB or CONGRESS to include R/C QUADS/ TOY's in the same category as Lasers, when interfering with maned aircraft. I think we have our answer here. Maybe we should start a campaign as (INDIVIDUALS) to have the AMA suggest that R/C TOYs flown with in the flight path of airplanes be included in the language of the laser law. It may not stop some Dummy but it sure will make him alone responsible for his actions,

Anyone got any better Ideas? PLZ don't say we just don't need more legislation. Some how the offenders have to be held RESPONSIBLE for their Individual actions. I can't think of a better way. Can U?

FLAPHappy

My Feedback: (209)

Ira: the last post I made was just above yours. I do not think the AMA has Control over the NAS, the FAA does. When these types of articles show up on FOX News, it's not a minor infraction. I don't watch CNN or ABC, and I don't like Politics from there point of view.
We are discussing an ongoing problem, that one day the RC pilots ,the AMA, will be restricted more so than we are now. When the time comes if there are fatalities, Katy Bar the Door, and the FAA will not tread lightly.

franklin_m

Unfortunately, many lawful activities get swept up in the knee-jerk reaction by lawmakers and regulators responding to the demands of an emotional public. I foresee that sooner or later some non-AMA member is going to put a drone in the engine of an airliner, and when that happens, the system will react quickly -- and anything but surgically. They will be searching for clear bright regulatory lines that are easily enforced and easily articulated. That means strict altitude limits and geographic limits. 400' AGL keeps models, AMA or not, well below the vast majority of civilian traffic. Add to that a restriction of nothing within 5nm of an airport w/o permission, and you've expanded that safety bubble significantly. It's easy to enforce by cops on the ground, easy to articulate, and about as easy to follow for uninformed as you can get w/o an outright ban.

ira d

You are right the AMA does not have control over the NAS but I never thought or said they did, What I did say was the AMA should try to the word out through the news media that it's not
the AMA members that are responsible for most of the stuff we hear about on the news I think doing so would really help to prevent the FAA becoming more restrictive.

HoundDog

My Feedback: (49)

Unfourtinally U are very right about "responding to the demands of an emotional public" but as I said in post 1483 maybe there is an answer to our dilemma:

a $250 thousand dollar fine and 5 years in federal prison is not only appropriate for pointing a Laser at aircraft in flight but for any one that would fly a QUAD or any R/C TOY in the vicinity of passenger airliners it is very appropriate. This would go a long way of solving the problem of blanket restriction of R/C TOYs and disassociate the Irresponsible Individual from the 99.99% of responsible R/Cers.

ira d

You are correct about potential knee-jerk reactions but I think a lot of the AMA brass monitor this forum and to some degree I think some FAA people do also. The down side as I see it
they also see the disagreement and personal attacks that go here along with all the Obama bashing of things that Obama has nothing to do with. In fact many of the politics we are
dealing with now concerning the FAA was started before Obama was president. In any case I do think the AMA is aware of the the discussion here and I do think they should start
to build up their public relations machine.

bradpaul

[h=1]http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/dr...rticle/2565240

Drone sales surge 167% to 4.3 million, U.S. leads but China catching up[/h]

franklin_m

I agree. Larger and faster airplanes take more airspace, and present considerably more risk to people on the ground. The total energy of these heavy and fast objects is significant. Consider that a 77lb LTMA-1 approved by AMA can travel at up to 200 MPH (293 ft/sec). AMA requires an engine auto cutoff 2 seconds after loss of signal. Assuming it works, that still means this heavy fast out of control object will travel just under 600 feet before the engine even shuts down, and likely quite a bit further before it crashes. That is a significant amount of total energy, life threatening energy.

So, in the interest of safety of the traveling public, this AMA member supports a 400' AGL maximum everywhere, no flight inside 5nm from a towered airport w/o explicit permission, nothing under class B at all, and a 55lb weight limit w/o exceptions, no flight over people, and no flight within lateral confines of military training routes during published hours of operation. I also think we should bring the speeds down, but don't have a good way to enforce that, so I'd be inclined to leave them alone for now. That's easy to articulate, easy to enforce, and keeps drones in any form below the vast majority of manned aircraft.

Jack_K

What kind of word is doe's? Something to do with female deer?

HoundDog

My Feedback: (49)

If the AMA were in fact watching some of these forums they'd pull or at least deny some people renewal of their AMA membership.
As for any Obama bashing or any political rhetoric I'd of thought the Monitor would have nipped that in the bud or even shut down the Forum. It's happened before.

init4fun

And with that , the death of free flight , pattern , all forms of sailplanes , and let's not forget model rocketry too .

I'm sure there are others you'd like to punish for causing no problems over the last 80 years or so also , but I think my list perfectly illustrates my point .

Give some guys a hammer , and then all of a sudden everything looks like a nail .......

ira d

I respect your views but IMO setting a hard 400' limit and no flying within five miles of a airport and no model over 55 lb's being allowed will not help the issue that is being discussed here. I say this
because people have been flying for years over 400' and near airports and also models over 55 lb's and not causing any problems to any degree that i'm aware of.

init4fun

We tend to overlook most spelling errors here , as long as the point being presented is somewhat coherent .

It's the posts where you could swear you heard the dude's brain come to a screeching halt while writing that are my pet peeve ....

ira d

I am sure AMA VP's and other high ups do view these forum but don't commit. What do you suppose would be the excuse they could use to deny some people membership?

HoundDog

My Feedback: (49)

There are very few people that look here or comment it just us gezzers arguing amongst our selves example right know there are

There are currently 8 users browsing this thread. (7 members and 1 guests)

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• XMech2k

But to answer your question. I'd Imagine bad mouthing the AMA might be grounds of disbarment. It's not mandatory that U belong to the AMA to play with R/C TOY airplanes. I'm sure a lot of the people that comment here are rich enough to be self insured for a couple million ... LOL I can't figure why anyone that doesn't like any origination or the way it charges it fees or how it generally operates would even consider belonging to such an origination. And further why would they pay good money to just to belong. But then what do I know I'm just an old AMA lover.

franklin_m

Wow, I never knew that the laws of physics prevented this. I guess I missed, it, but since they can't fly below 400, then I'm assuming they have some sort of parachute recovery that triggers when they pass through 400 feet on the way down? Of course I'm being sarcastic, but hyperbolic claims of death to free flight, pattern, and all forms of sailplanes is a bit extreme. It won't be the death of anything...it will be a change in they way they're flown..nothing more.

As for what they've been doing for 80 years, there's a lot changed since then, not the least of which is a vast increase in the number of commercial passenger carrying aircraft, in terms of total numbers, total seat miles, total flights, and just about every other measure.

Legislators have to figure out what is needed to solve the problem, but something they can also enforce. It's pretty difficult to get law enforcement / regulators in the business of asking for AMA cards, checking knowledge, etc. What is easy are geographic limits and altitude limits. Those can be enforced w/o too much trouble. Laser range finder will easily determine altitude, and just about every smart phone can be used to determine geographic limits.

franklin_m

Remember that AMA sanctioned event last year when that 100lb B29 crashed nearly missing the crowd? What do you think the media and regulator reaction would be if there'd been serious injuries or worse? Same with the jet that crashed into the pits earlier this year and resulted in 2nd degree burns. What if someone had been killed? This month's MA has a photo of a major dent to a vehicle caused by a sailplane. And on the current topic, what do you think will happen when an airliner has to make an emergency landing single engine and they dig airplane parts out of the motor? Our hobby has been lucky so far. I've never considered luck a plan.

HoundDog

My Feedback: (49)

Originally Posted by init4fun
And with that, the death of free flight, pattern, all forms of sailplanes, and let's not forget model rocketry too.

init4fun: Ever notice how people that don't participate in a certain discipline don't mind that what they don't do doesn't count and is not important enough to be worthy of keeping them as they have always been.

Again refer to #1483 for the real answer to our problems with commercial air liners and R/C TOY's & IDIOT QUAD Flyers. 25 to life even better.