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Another Drone Pilot does it Again

Old 07-14-2015, 02:46 AM
  #2026  
HoundDog
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Originally Posted by FLAPHappy
HD: read my post above about 4 or 5 up.
Flap:
I see nothing in your posts about California passing laws on Recreational R/C Drone flying, Only commercial use of drones.
My post was because of this by:

Originally Posted by flycatch
They just announced that in California the days of non commercial drones will be ending soon. This was caused by people flying drones near forest fires and the grounding of aircraft used to combat them.
Old 07-14-2015, 10:41 AM
  #2027  
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Originally Posted by init4fun
Even my news , 3000 odd miles away from California , is reporting 4 incidents in the past month of drones interfering with firefighting operations . With this amount of idiots now in possession of them , it's only a matter of time . The best we can hope for is that "traditional" RC fixed wing and heli use is not affected , and only the "flying camera" operations take the hit .
Originally Posted by HoundDog
Flap:
I see nothing in your posts about California passing laws on Recreational R/C Drone flying, Only commercial use of drones.
My post was because of this by:

Originally Posted by flycatch
They just announced that in California the days of non commercial drones will be ending soon. This was caused by people flying drones near forest fires and the grounding of aircraft used to combat them.
Hey HoundDog ,

The scary thing here is , and who knows , may be the same news report flucatch saw that I saw too , that of course along with the story of the drone related interference with the firefighting is the mention of bans on drone flying in specific response to the Idiots flying in the way of the firefighting operations . I ain't "Carnac the Magnificent" by any stretch of the imagination and yet I see this ban business becoming real trouble if it comes home to roost in our hobby beyond the flying camera crew . The fact that the AMA made a play to attempt relevance in the upcoming "drone revolution" means that we possibly could suffer being covered by the very broad brush with which such bans are usually enacted . I don't see much similarity between what the photographer with his flying camera VS traditional model aircraft operations are all about and if it ends up that we aren't allowed to strap cameras to our models , so be it , it isn't something I or most other aviation interested folks I know need in order to enjoy flying a model aircraft . I do hope whoever is in the position of making the final call on it is smart enough to separate the two hobbies , photography and model aviation , and decide that model aviation will not be any kinds of public menace with the cameras removed ......
Old 07-14-2015, 12:15 PM
  #2028  
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Originally Posted by init4fun
Hey HoundDog ,

The scary thing here is , and who knows , may be the same news report flucatch saw that I saw too , that of course along with the story of the drone related interference with the firefighting is the mention of bans on drone flying in specific response to the Idiots flying in the way of the firefighting operations . I ain't "Carnac the Magnificent" by any stretch of the imagination and yet I see this ban business becoming real trouble if it comes home to roost in our hobby beyond the flying camera crew . The fact that the AMA made a play to attempt relevance in the upcoming "drone revolution" means that we possibly could suffer being covered by the very broad brush with which such bans are usually enacted . I don't see much similarity between what the photographer with his flying camera VS traditional model aircraft operations are all about and if it ends up that we aren't allowed to strap cameras to our models , so be it , it isn't something I or most other aviation interested folks I know need in order to enjoy flying a model aircraft . I do hope whoever is in the position of making the final call on it is smart enough to separate the two hobbies , photography and model aviation , and decide that model aviation will not be any kinds of public menace with the cameras removed ......
Amen to that, Except for removing cameras when flown FPV under the rules & FAR's.

Better yet we (All recreational R/C Model flyers) have to convince the powers that be we aren't the problem. Out of Hundreds of thousands of flights flown by R/C model pilots every year less than one one thousandth of a percent cause any problem to Maned aircraft. Only with the on set of Quads (Drones) has their been a problem. I know that I'm preaching to the choir her, but we, AMA, LHS, manufactures and distributors have to come together and STOP all the Idiots out there from endangering our 80+ year old Hobby/Sport.

Now let's quit bickering among our selves and come up with some viable Ideas to save our Hobby/Sport. We have too much to loose if we fail in this effort. Criticizing others comments, or there ideas only causes dissension and further divides us when we should be united in this effort. If anyone has nothing but derogatory remarks to say,try keeping them to them selves. The old Saying "If U don't have anything good (Constructive) to say, then don't say anything at all" is more appropriate than ever. In reality few if any of these fourms amounts to a pinch of SHEIT because so few R/C Modelers even know they exist, Much less care. Just try asking anyone in this hobby especially thoes In your R/C club and They Don't even believe there is a problem. ... Again this is JMHO.



Last edited by HoundDog; 07-14-2015 at 12:21 PM.
Old 07-14-2015, 04:07 PM
  #2029  
Jim Branaum
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Originally Posted by init4fun
Hey HoundDog ,

The scary thing here is , and who knows , may be the same news report flucatch saw that I saw too , that of course along with the story of the drone related interference with the firefighting is the mention of bans on drone flying in specific response to the Idiots flying in the way of the firefighting operations . I ain't "Carnac the Magnificent" by any stretch of the imagination and yet I see this ban business becoming real trouble if it comes home to roost in our hobby beyond the flying camera crew . The fact that the AMA made a play to attempt relevance in the upcoming "drone revolution" means that we possibly could suffer being covered by the very broad brush with which such bans are usually enacted . I don't see much similarity between what the photographer with his flying camera VS traditional model aircraft operations are all about and if it ends up that we aren't allowed to strap cameras to our models , so be it , it isn't something I or most other aviation interested folks I know need in order to enjoy flying a model aircraft . I do hope whoever is in the position of making the final call on it is smart enough to separate the two hobbies , photography and model aviation , and decide that model aviation will not be any kinds of public menace with the cameras removed ......

Originally Posted by HoundDog
Amen to that, Except for removing cameras when flown FPV under the rules & FAR's.

Better yet we (All recreational R/C Model flyers) have to convince the powers that be we aren't the problem. Out of Hundreds of thousands of flights flown by R/C model pilots every year less than one one thousandth of a percent cause any problem to Maned aircraft. Only with the on set of Quads (Drones) has their been a problem. I know that I'm preaching to the choir her, but we, AMA, LHS, manufactures and distributors have to come together and STOP all the Idiots out there from endangering our 80+ year old Hobby/Sport.

Now let's quit bickering among our selves and come up with some viable Ideas to save our Hobby/Sport. We have too much to loose if we fail in this effort. Criticizing others comments, or there ideas only causes dissension and further divides us when we should be united in this effort. If anyone has nothing but derogatory remarks to say,try keeping them to them selves. The old Saying "If U don't have anything good (Constructive) to say, then don't say anything at all" is more appropriate than ever. In reality few if any of these fourms amounts to a pinch of SHEIT because so few R/C Modelers even know they exist, Much less care. Just try asking anyone in this hobby especially thoes In your R/C club and They Don't even believe there is a problem. ... Again this is JMHO.



I firmly believe you just hit the nail on the head with a 12 lb sledge. We MUST find an answer that separates us from those not understanding the fire they are playing with before they burn us all out. There have already been attempts at controlling the location these things can fly by putting gps monitors on them and writing code into the controller sofware that limits activities in some areas. It was found that hacker renegade operators remove that code. Which means that the attempt by the industry to resolve the problem has had very limited success.

So what next?
Old 07-14-2015, 04:34 PM
  #2030  
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Originally Posted by Jim Branaum
I firmly believe you just hit the nail on the head with a 12 lb sledge. We MUST find an answer that separates us from those not understanding the fire they are playing with before they burn us all out. There have already been attempts at controlling the location these things can fly by putting gps monitors on them and writing code into the controller sofware that limits activities in some areas. It was found that hacker renegade operators remove that code. Which means that the attempt by the industry to resolve the problem has had very limited success.

So what next?
That's the $64 Question. We are the ones that will suffer if we don't. This is the right place to try and come up with a solution.
Now let's all get on the band wagon and together "Solve this Dilemma"
Old 07-14-2015, 05:15 PM
  #2031  
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I follow these threads and throw in a comment from time to time. My county just passed "drone" legislation, and as the president of a club I made it my point to get involved. The law that was passed says: A person may fly on his property, another persons property with permission and a public park if permission is given. Now my club flies on a closed landfill with permission from the Town. So we are ok, the same with the one other club in the county.

When this legislation came about, I met with the legislator along with a representative from the other club and our AMA District VP. We pretty much left the meeting leaving the legislator more educated about model aviation. My club puts on an annual air show for the public with assistance from the Town. They provide free food and advertising for us. The legislator is familiar with this event and we quickly made him aware that we are not the people flying next to people's windows and taking pictures among other things. As the public meetings progressed I realized that I needed to reach out to the lawmakers and get them to see the difference between us and the "drone" users. The lawmaker that wrote the bill became a big help to us as he always mentioned our air show at the public hearings.

This is what I believe we must do, get people out to the fields and educate them. I think that the whole "drone" thing will continue to do damage to itself with countless acts of recklessness. Bring the public out and show them that we fly VLOS. Put them on a buddy box and let them enjoy flying for themselves, make friends with the public!
Old 07-14-2015, 07:55 PM
  #2032  
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Originally Posted by bruceal
I follow these threads and throw in a comment from time to time. My county just passed "drone" legislation, and as the president of a club I made it my point to get involved. The law that was passed says: A person may fly on his property, another persons property with permission and a public park if permission is given. Now my club flies on a closed landfill with permission from the Town. So we are ok, the same with the one other club in the county.

When this legislation came about, I met with the legislator along with a representative from the other club and our AMA District VP. We pretty much left the meeting leaving the legislator more educated about model aviation. My club puts on an annual air show for the public with assistance from the Town. They provide free food and advertising for us. The legislator is familiar with this event and we quickly made him aware that we are not the people flying next to people's windows and taking pictures among other things. As the public meetings progressed I realized that I needed to reach out to the lawmakers and get them to see the difference between us and the "drone" users. The lawmaker that wrote the bill became a big help to us as he always mentioned our air show at the public hearings.

This is what I believe we must do, get people out to the fields and educate them. I think that the whole "drone" thing will continue to do damage to itself with countless acts of recklessness. Bring the public out and show them that we fly VLOS. Put them on a buddy box and let them enjoy flying for themselves, make friends with the public!
Hmmm... the county seemed to pretty much reaffirm something that was a given...well, unless there was previous anti drone legislation in place, which I doubt. Just can't help but wonder what caused the county to even consider the issue, especially based on the response... Oh well, I can only guess you and your club are still anti-FPV though?? It would have been a very dark day indeed if the county had taken such stance as you, and by extension your club, since the most appropriate place to fly FPV refuses to allow the activity... Oh well, maybe you'll have better luck next time...
Old 07-14-2015, 09:27 PM
  #2033  
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Originally Posted by littlecrankshaf
Hmmm... the county seemed to pretty much reaffirm something that was a given...well, unless there was previous anti drone legislation in place, which I doubt. Just can't help but wonder what caused the county to even consider the issue, especially based on the response... Oh well, I can only guess you and your club are still anti-FPV though?? It would have been a very dark day indeed if the county had taken such stance as you, and by extension your club, since the most appropriate place to fly FPV refuses to allow the activity... Oh well, maybe you'll have better luck next time...
Hmm... I think your assumption is not necessarily correct. His club may not be anti-FPV if the users stay VLOS. VLOS does NOT preclude FPV. They are different terms - one is the way the flight is being made (FPV) and the other is where (VLOS). Or has someone changed the definitions and I am too stupid and missed it? Wouldn't that be a batch!
Old 07-15-2015, 01:46 AM
  #2034  
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No, we don't allow FPV. The legislation came about because the Sheriff was afraid that someone could fly over the county jail and drop contraband to the prisoners. The legislator considers the use of "drones" a privacy issue. Allowing people to fly FPV at our field won't stop the guy that shot a video of himself driving along a country road while filming himself, or the great fireworks video he shot from way more than 400' while flying over a busy highway. Look at some Facebook pages, there are groups that don't want to fly at club fields. They use their "drones" as camera platforms and want to fly where they want. And being that you like to underline points, yes clubs do need to get involved when we are grouped with people that pose a serious threat to the hobby. Our choice not to allow FPV was made before the county took action. Our club is located across the street from a marina, county park and an active heliport. But I already mentioned that way back in this thread somewhere. I also mentioned that way back we did let people do FPV and they had trouble with VLOS.
Old 07-15-2015, 03:12 AM
  #2035  
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Originally Posted by bruceal
I follow these threads and throw in a comment from time to time. My county just passed "drone" legislation, and as the president of a club I made it my point to get involved. The law that was passed says: A person may fly on his property, another persons property with permission and a public park if permission is given. Now my club flies on a closed landfill with permission from the Town. So we are ok, the same with the one other club in the county.

When this legislation came about, I met with the legislator along with a representative from the other club and our AMA District VP. We pretty much left the meeting leaving the legislator more educated about model aviation. My club puts on an annual air show for the public with assistance from the Town. They provide free food and advertising for us. The legislator is familiar with this event and we quickly made him aware that we are not the people flying next to people's windows and taking pictures among other things. As the public meetings progressed I realized that I needed to reach out to the lawmakers and get them to see the difference between us and the "drone" users. The lawmaker that wrote the bill became a big help to us as he always mentioned our air show at the public hearings.

This is what I believe we must do, get people out to the fields and educate them. I think that the whole "drone" thing will continue to do damage to itself with countless acts of recklessness. Bring the public out and show them that we fly VLOS. Put them on a buddy box and let them enjoy flying for themselves, make friends with the public!
+100
Old 07-15-2015, 05:14 AM
  #2036  
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Originally Posted by bruceal
No, we don't allow FPV. The legislation came about because the Sheriff was afraid that someone could fly over the county jail and drop contraband to the prisoners.
A non sequitur response in my opinion...OK, just for the sake of benefit of doubt, how was this "legislation" going to prevent something that was already illegal... It seems a bunch of Horse Hockey... makes absolutely zero sense to me... So, do you get involved in all of the sheriffs concerns????
Old 07-15-2015, 05:22 AM
  #2037  
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Originally Posted by bruceal
I follow these threads and throw in a comment from time to time. My county just passed "drone" legislation, and as the president of a club I made it my point to get involved. The law that was passed says: A person may fly on his property, another persons property with permission and a public park if permission is given. Now my club flies on a closed landfill with permission from the Town. So we are ok, the same with the one other club in the county.

When this legislation came about, I met with the legislator along with a representative from the other club and our AMA District VP. We pretty much left the meeting leaving the legislator more educated about model aviation. My club puts on an annual air show for the public with assistance from the Town. They provide free food and advertising for us. The legislator is familiar with this event and we quickly made him aware that we are not the people flying next to people's windows and taking pictures among other things. As the public meetings progressed I realized that I needed to reach out to the lawmakers and get them to see the difference between us and the "drone" users. The lawmaker that wrote the bill became a big help to us as he always mentioned our air show at the public hearings.

This is what I believe we must do, get people out to the fields and educate them. I think that the whole "drone" thing will continue to do damage to itself with countless acts of recklessness. Bring the public out and show them that we fly VLOS. Put them on a buddy box and let them enjoy flying for themselves, make friends with the public!
Originally Posted by littlecrankshaf
Hmmm... the county seemed to pretty much reaffirm something that was a given...well, unless there was previous anti drone legislation in place, which I doubt. Just can't help but wonder what caused the county to even consider the issue, especially based on the response... Oh well, I can only guess you and your club are still anti-FPV though?? It would have been a very dark day indeed if the county had taken such stance as you, and by extension your club, since the most appropriate place to fly FPV refuses to allow the activity... Oh well, maybe you'll have better luck next time...

And again , you folks are using "drone" and "FPV" interchangeably , so which is it that your against ; AMA #550 legal FPV (which causes us no problems) or unrestricted drone use ?

Fly FPV under ALL auspices of AMA #550 and you should have the hobby's blessing .......

Fly unrestricted drone missions over populated areas & such and you ARE the problem .........

So tell me , again , exactly which it is that you all are talking about ? Cause I thought we were talking about the unrestricted drone rather than the condoned #550 legit FPV ?????
Old 07-15-2015, 05:28 AM
  #2038  
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I think what he was trying to say is that dropping contraband with FPV aided model is a no-no but to do it with a conventional model without FPV capability is ok....or something like that...:-)
Old 07-15-2015, 05:39 AM
  #2039  
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If everyone followed #550 we wouldn't be having this conversation now. LCS, things don't have to make sense to you and me. Alot of our lawmakers never even heard of the AMA, they pass laws that they feel are neccessary. In America we all live in our own "Any Town USA." Any Town passes the laws we deal with every day. And do I involve myself with the Sheriff? Only if his concerns are my concerns. You don't have to like me or my club, go deal with politicians and the public, and then try to find a flying site. I have eighty people that enjoy flying here and we do what's neccessary to keep it. If that means separating ourselves from the drone group so be it.
Old 07-15-2015, 05:44 AM
  #2040  
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LCS, first of all most lawmakers see "drones" as quads. Some never heard of FPV. And since when is flying over a jail with anything ok? You have a good day!
Old 07-15-2015, 05:46 AM
  #2041  
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Originally Posted by bruceal
go deal with politicians and the public, and then try to find a flying site. I have eighty people that enjoy flying here and we do what's neccessary to keep it. If that means separating ourselves from the drone group so be it.
"go deal with politicians and the public, and then try to find a flying site."

I have... and FPV is perfectly fine at our club...Yep, we have a county jail adjacent to our flying site....Just a basic difference in our philosophy I guess...but that was my point.... Thanks for making it clearer... It was/is only the self-rightious hypocrites within the hobby that has ever caused us any trouble...
Old 07-15-2015, 06:19 AM
  #2042  
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One thing to mention, at the last public hearing I brought a bunch of material on the AMA's "Know Before You Fly Campaign." I figured that would show that the AMA cares about educating people on where and how to fly safely. The person who spoke before me was from the ACLU. His concern was all about the legality of the images taken and who owned the rights to them. Listening to him I realized that this whole fight isn't so much about flying anything, but rather this is a camera platform. When I got up to speak I pointed out that I had this info I wanted to share but after listening to the previous speaker I just wanted to say how and where we fly, we are not the ones that you're try to prevent "peeping" in peoples windows. This is so much more than FPV, lawmakers get their ideas from what they see and hear in the media. The word "drone" is thrown around too loosely. They even call 42% planes drones now. Again, we will keep bringing people to the flying field and let them see what we do. At our air show last year we buddy boxed over 100 kids. We even do projects with West Point. As the stories come out in the news I want people to know the difference between responsible hobbyists and people who fly a quad way beyond VLOS from their backyard.
Old 07-15-2015, 06:26 AM
  #2043  
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Originally Posted by bruceal
One thing to mention, at the last public hearing I brought a bunch of material on the AMA's "Know Before You Fly Campaign." I figured that would show that the AMA cares about educating people on where and how to fly safely. The person who spoke before me was from the ACLU. His concern was all about the legality of the images taken and who owned the rights to them. Listening to him I realized that this whole fight isn't so much about flying anything, but rather this is a camera platform. When I got up to speak I pointed out that I had this info I wanted to share but after listening to the previous speaker I just wanted to say how and where we fly, we are not the ones that you're try to prevent "peeping" in peoples windows. This is so much more than FPV, lawmakers get their ideas from what they see and hear in the media. The word "drone" is thrown around too loosely. They even call 42% planes drones now. Again, we will keep bringing people to the flying field and let them see what we do. At our air show last year we buddy boxed over 100 kids. We even do projects with West Point. As the stories come out in the news I want people to know the difference between responsible hobbyists and people who fly a quad way beyond VLOS from their backyard.
I don't get it...you seem to ascribe to AMA's lead but you are still Anti-FPV at your club flying site... I don't mean to pick on you but reconciling your position with AMA's is difficult.
Old 07-15-2015, 06:47 AM
  #2044  
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We had FPV in the beginning but people found it nessessary to fly where they don't belong. We allow quads or anything with a camera just no FPV. Here is our field, we are in no position to be where we are not supposed to be. http://www.hvrcc.com/ Mind you we have some of the top pattern people in the country and have no issues.
Old 07-15-2015, 08:29 AM
  #2045  
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Originally Posted by [FONT=impact
bruceal[/FONT];12070142] I follow these threads and throw in a comment from time to time. !
After Following these threads U should have learned that there a few here that love to Bate others and then argue with them and will on occasion even agree with them. Be forewarned they only want to engage U in a meaningless debate that helps NO ONE but seems to satisfy some Alter Ego they have. It looks like U were "BATED" by one of the best. Some one that probably could find fault with Christ. Man Am I gona get it know.
Old 07-15-2015, 09:26 AM
  #2046  
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Originally Posted by littlecrankshaf
"go deal with politicians and the public, and then try to find a flying site."

I have... and FPV is perfectly fine at our club...Yep, we have a county jail adjacent to our flying site....Just a basic difference in our philosophy I guess...but that was my point.... Thanks for making it clearer... It was/is only the self-rightious hypocrites within the hobby that has ever caused us any trouble...
Isn't that the same with ANY human activity you care to investigate? Seriously, it has been proven that communism is a great and wonderful idea but the human element seems to screw it up with their hypocrisy...

Secondly there is not reason to reconcile any club's position with that of the AMA because each group will have its own political and public demons to conquer and each club will use an approach that is consistent with what they understand and can live with.

While your club seems to have a great relationship with the authorities, on my desk I have a formal letter from the local Parks and Rec dept telling my club to take a hike when we asked about land owned by the city but not used and offer to develop and pay rent to site a flying field there. It is/was in a flood plain that gets underwater regularly.
Old 07-15-2015, 09:38 AM
  #2047  
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Originally Posted by Jim Branaum
I firmly believe you just hit the nail on the head with a 12 lb sledge. We MUST find an answer that separates us from those not understanding the fire they are playing with before they burn us all out. There have already been attempts at controlling the location these things can fly by putting gps monitors on them and writing code into the controller sofware that limits activities in some areas. It was found that hacker renegade operators remove that code. Which means that the attempt by the industry to resolve the problem has had very limited success.

So what next?
Here are the powers that be - http://www.faa.gov/uas/

Find out what they are doing. Write or email them. Ask what you can do. And offer to help them come up with a solution that is good for everyone who wants to stay legal.
Old 07-15-2015, 12:59 PM
  #2048  
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Originally Posted by littlecrankshaf
I think what he was trying to say is that dropping contraband with FPV aided model is a no-no but to do it with a conventional model without FPV capability is ok....or something like that...:-)
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HawGrbcJYUA

Yes because drones would help stop rope burns on the prisoners hand!
Old 07-15-2015, 02:41 PM
  #2049  
VF84sluggo
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My wife came up with a new name for my DJI Phantom: drone a copter thingy

I kind of like it...
Old 07-15-2015, 02:52 PM
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init4fun
 
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Originally Posted by VF84sluggo
My wife came up with a new name for my DJI Phantom: drone a copter thingy

I kind of like it...
What , no "dohickey" or "gizmo" or "thingamiggey" in there ? The poor phantom is gonna have an identity crisis

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