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Another Drone Pilot does it Again

Old 08-29-2016, 12:33 AM
  #3626  
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As Bart Simpson says "Oh Crappity, Crap Crap Crap" Here we go again. Watch and listen to the first part all about FAA Regs Part 101 and 107 Taking affect yesterday 28 Aug 2016.

Some interesting stuff from FAA.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=276

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngogl.../#74570e1c6743


Need to read and watch.

Last edited by HoundDog; 08-29-2016 at 01:07 AM.
Old 08-29-2016, 01:06 AM
  #3627  
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[h=1]Just in cause U missed the URL here is the Text"

Attention, Hobby Flyers: Come Monday Some Of You May Need An FAA Drone Pilot Certificate. Yes, Really.[/h][h=1]The new drone rules set to go into effect Monday — known asPart 107 for the section of the federal aviation regulations — are expected to be a boon to commercial operators, lifting many current expensive and time-consuming requirements, including the need to have a manned aircraft pilot’s license and to stay more than 500 feet from people, cars and structures.
The new rules do require a commercial operator to get a Remote Pilot Certificate with a Small Unmanned Aircraft Rating — licensed, current pilots have to pass a simple online test; non-pilots have to pass an aeronautical knowledge test which includes the ability to read aeronautical charts, understand and decipher aviation weather reports, in addition to learning the new operational drone rules. It costs approximately $150 to take the test. After taking the test, would-be drone pilots need to be vetted by TSA to determine whether they are a security risk. Only after that vetting is done will the FAA issue an applicant a certificate to fly a drone.
The catch here is that while the new rules are a significant easing of restrictions for commercial operators, they bring a huge change to the way the FAA has distinguished between hobby or recreational flyers and non-hobby or business flyers. So come Monday, many hobby flyers will be lumped in with commercial operators. And require an FAA certificate to fly their drones. Of course operating without an FAA license will subject these hobbyists to potential FAA enforcement action, including fines of $1,100 per violation.

After August 29, the effective date of the new rules, being a hobbyist is no longer enough to evade commercial drone requirements, as it has been in the past. Prior to these new rules the FAA created a clear distinction in terms of requirements for hobby or recreational flyers and those who flew unmanned aircraft for commercial or business purposes. By the end of August, that simple distinction disappears. That will likely come as a shock to many of you who have been flying model aircraft or drones and are caught unawares by these new rules. But while many people have been celebrating the new rules, hobby and recreational flyers have largely been unaware of the changes that are about to hit them next week.
But as my colleague at Vaughn College of Aeronautics, Loretta Alkalay, recently warned in an article in the Drone Law Journal, the law’s changes were worrisome for hobby flyers. And she was right. The FAA today confirmed that many hobbyists will now be required to get an FAA license and comply with the same rules as commercial operators. Like Amazon or Google
So for example, if you’ve gotten into drone racing, whether you fly for hobby or not, the FAA confirmed to me today that if you fly FPV – first person view – you will be required to get a drone pilot’s license and comply with the new Part 107. Below is my question and the FAA’s response:
Q: Could you confirm whether hobby FPV flyers will have to get a Part 107 remote pilot certificate after August 29 when the new drone rules go into effect?
A: Under the FAA’s current interpretation of the Special Rule for Model Aircraft, modelers who want to fly their drones using first-person-view systems must operate under Part 107, which requires a Remote Pilot Certificate. The operator also would need to comply with any other applicable Part 107 requirement.
The FAA’s response indicates that it may review this requirement in the future, but starting Monday Part 107 is the law applicable to FPV flyers. According to the FAA: “The FAA solicited comments to its interpretation of the Special Rule for Model Aircraft and received over 33,000 comments, including comments on the use of FPV. The FAA is considering the issues raised by those comments and plans to issue a final interpretation of the Special Rule for Model Aircraft that reflects its consideration of the comments.”

Some Of You May Need An FAA Drone Pilot Certificate. Yes, Really.[/h]
Q: Could you confirm whether hobby FPV flyers will have to get a Part 107 remote pilot certificate after August 29 when the new drone rules go into effect?

A: Under the FAA’s current interpretation of the Special Rule for Model Aircraft, modelers who want to fly their drones using first-person-view systems must operate under Part 107, which requires a Remote Pilot Certificate. The operator also would need to comply with any other applicable Part 107 requirement.
The FAA’s response indicates that it may review this requirement in the future, but starting Monday Part 107 is the law applicable to FPV flyers. According to the FAA: “The FAA solicited comments to its interpretation of the Special Rule for Model Aircraft and received over 33,000 comments, including comments on the use of FPV. The FAA is considering the issues raised by those comments and plans to issue a final interpretation of the Special Rule for Model Aircraft that reflects its consideration of the comments.”

Not only will FPV flying be prohibited without a license but operators who don’t operate “in accordance with a community-based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization” will also be required to hold an FAA license and comply with Part 107. If you are an Academy of Model Aeronautics member and fly under their guidelines, you’re safe – unless, of course, you want to fly FPV. The FAA has determined that the AMA meets the criteria for a nationwide community based organization. But if you’re not an AMA member or fly under its guidelines? Here are my questions and the FAA’s response.
Q: Also, will model aircraft pilots who do not belong to the AMA have to get a remote pilot certificate under Part 107 after August 29?
A: The FAA does not mandate membership in any particular community-based organization. To qualify for the Special Rule for Model Aircraft, an unmanned aircraft must, among other things, be operated in accordance with a community-based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization. If a hobbyist can’t show that he or she is operating in accordance with a community-based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization, then he or shee will have to meet the requirements of Part 107
Q: Has any organization other than the AMA been determined to qualify as a community based organization for the purposes of Part 101?
A: The FAA’s interpretation of the Special Rule for Model Aircraft, which was published in the Federal Register on June 25, 2014, noted that the AMA qualified as a community-based organization to provide an example of what types of organizations would qualify. The FAA does not intend to maintain a list of organizations that would qualify as a CBO under the Special Rule for Model Aircraft. Rather, the FAA will consider the language of the Conference Report that accompanied H.R. 658, which ultimately became the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012, when the need to determine whether an organization qualifies arises. The Conference Report indicates that a nationwide community-based organization is a membership-based association that “represents the aeromodeling community within the United States; provides its members a comprehensive set of safety guidelines that underscores safe aeromodeling operations within the National Airspace System and the protection and safety of the general public on the ground; develops and maintains mutually supportive programming with educational institutions, government entities and other aviation associations; and acts as a liaison with government agencies as an advocate for its members.”
So as far as whether you’re operating in accordance with “a community-based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization,” the FAA is apparently unwilling to tell you ahead of time, which leaves hobby flyers vulnerable if they operate under the guidelines of an organization which the FAA subsequently determines doesn’t qualify.

So how do young people fare under these new rules? Unfortunately, you need to be at least 16 years old to qualify for an FAA drone license. So if you want to get into drone racing, kids, you’ll have to wait until you’re 16, or fly indoors.
Old 08-29-2016, 03:48 AM
  #3628  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m
I don't begrudge folks that have the time and money to support a variety of clubs. I know that with my kids' sports schedules, my work, and mix in a few other hobbies, I didn't get to the club less than 15 miles away let alone those 40 or 50 or more.

I'm just asking if the club field based business model will remain viable.
asked and answered here, and by the formation and longevity of thousands of clubs across the country. Many if not all are made up up folks of all ages, who have kids and grand kids with crazy sports schedules, with folks are who are budgets (and some that clearly are not). Some have members in different states (I belong to a club in NJ that takes two hours to get to, some of our members come in from NH to fly). In other words, they are melting pots of people and circumstances, but they all make time to come together and enjoy the hobby at a club. Obviously, it's a personal preference, and I'm not in any way saying that those folks who fly by themselves, or with others in an unstructured AMA/non AMA environment are not enjoying the hobby just as much.
Old 08-29-2016, 03:54 AM
  #3629  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m
It's great that you have that kind of time. I don't. If that makes me a casual member, so what? You went to three flying clubs. I spent an hour and got in six flights at the park first thing in the morning, then went to the range to sight in two rifles before deer season, went to a baseball practice with my son, and took my daughter for some school supplies. Not looking for any sympathy, just pointing out that not everyone has the time to do all this volunteering you keep trying to push on me. I guess I'm of less interest to AMA since I can't devote that kind of time.

My point is this. If having successful club fields takes sizeable numbers of folks like you, ones who devote considerable time, can the whole club field model survive? Without quality facilities close to where people reside, work, and live the rest of their lives (schools, sports, etc.), are there enough members who are willing to drive an hour or more just to fly? I honestly don't think so.

What made McDonalds successful? It's not the great food. It's the consistency. The "user experience" is the same whether you stop at a store in Virginia, or California, or in one city, or the next. Contrast that with AMA club fields. I think there's a large variation in the "user experience" and that could prove to be a weakness in the business model. Quite simply, w/o quality clubs close, why should people join?

I wish I lived close to a vibrant club like yours. Within the limits of my work schedule and other commitments, I'd probably even volunteer. But I don't. I only have so much time to devote to the hobby, which means that there's a limit to how far I'm willing to drive. That probably makes me less of a member in your eyes. But the reality is there's a lot of folks like me. Folks who don't have the luxury or desire to devote entire days to flying most weekends. If AMA's model depends on folks like you, does it not run the risk of collapsing (figuratively) to select pockets around the country? These pockets being Goldilocks zones if you will, where there's just the right amount of members, of the right demographic with time to devote, and not too much urban encroachment?
We all make choices. I have kids, I work, I'm involved in other ways with the community I live in. Sometimes my kids are with me at clubs and events, sometimes they are not. I budget my time and activities accordingly, and would presume everyone else does a well. Most everyone on the EC is in the same boat, and don't get paid either. I look forward to retiring so I can do more of what I want, but I'm not sure that will be the case. My parents have never been busier, and I see some folks at the club less now than when they worked, so who knows.
Old 08-29-2016, 07:25 AM
  #3630  
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I am getting so sick of the nonsense subject diversions going on with this thread. IT IS ABOUT DRONE PILOTS, NOT AMA.
Old 08-29-2016, 07:32 AM
  #3631  
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You must be new 'round these parts...all roads lead to AMA, and their failings.

You might have noted the thread itself is titled ANOTHER DRONE PILOT DOES IT AGAIN....did you also note it was the AMA forums? Do the two have something to do with each other? Threads tend to meander, it's what they do. 99% is relative to the issue.
Old 08-29-2016, 07:49 AM
  #3632  
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Here's an outfit wanting to help future "drone" pilots.

http://www.uxvuniversity.com/uav-pil...g-certificate/

That ain't cheap!
Old 08-29-2016, 07:56 AM
  #3633  
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Have fun with this one. https://www.facebook.com/BBCCasualty...9528523811860/
Old 08-29-2016, 07:59 AM
  #3634  
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UW5qPqFcVGQ
Old 08-29-2016, 08:03 AM
  #3635  
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Originally Posted by TimJ
LoL!
Old 08-29-2016, 10:26 AM
  #3636  
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https://www.yahoo.com/sports/video/g...125657283.html
Old 08-29-2016, 12:14 PM
  #3637  
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https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/g...--finance.html

600,000 commercial drones within a year.

As if they FAA was never going to get involved in this.

As if the AMA was ever going to be able to do anything to avoid that.

As if keeping MR/Drones out of the AMA would have made a difference.

As if it will make any difference at this point to "take back our hobby", not that it's gone anywhere.
Old 08-29-2016, 01:36 PM
  #3638  
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Sorry but it won't post

Last edited by HoundDog; 08-29-2016 at 01:39 PM.
Old 08-29-2016, 01:43 PM
  #3639  
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Originally Posted by porcia83
We all make choices. I have kids, I work, I'm involved in other ways with the community I live in. Sometimes my kids are with me at clubs and events, sometimes they are not. I budget my time and activities accordingly, and would presume everyone else does a well. Most everyone on the EC is in the same boat, and don't get paid either. I look forward to retiring so I can do more of what I want, but I'm not sure that will be the case. My parents have never been busier, and I see some folks at the club less now than when they worked, so who knows.
From your posts and how many there were I would have believed u and Frankie were Old Retired guys with nothing better to do than sit and post on RCU all day long.
Old 08-29-2016, 01:53 PM
  #3640  
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Originally Posted by HoundDog
As Bart Simpson says "Oh Crappity, Crap Crap Crap" Here we go again. Watch and listen to the first part all about FAA Regs Part 101 and 107 Taking affect yesterday 28 Aug 2016.

Some interesting stuff from FAA.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=276

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngogl.../#74570e1c6743


Need to read and watch.
On Day 1 of this mess, the AMA should have said "if it has a camera, it is a drone"

"No camera, it is a model aircraft". So simple.

But they never even tried that. They not only did not shun the flying cameras but embraced FPV rules (the worse of the potential camera drone abuses) and then lobbied for the CBO title.
Old 08-29-2016, 02:17 PM
  #3641  
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Originally Posted by HoundDog
From your posts and how many there were I would have believed u and Frankie were Old Retired guys with nothing better to do than sit and post on RCU all day long.
You would have guessed wrong....although I feel older and older each day! Ain't combat still a workin stiff like many of us...he's about to break the 20k post mark! Nice!

Last edited by porcia83; 08-29-2016 at 02:28 PM.
Old 08-29-2016, 02:27 PM
  #3642  
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Originally Posted by mr_matt
On Day 1 of this mess, the AMA should have said "if it has a camera, it is a drone"

"No camera, it is a model aircraft". So simple.

But they never even tried that. They not only did not shun the flying cameras but embraced FPV rules (the worse of the potential camera drone abuses) and then lobbied for the CBO title.
It's simple alright, simply wrong.

On day one AMA should have banned $10,000 jets too right? If it had a jet, it's out! Because we know how much damage a 50 pounds jet filled going 150 miles per hour can do right? Have yet to see a story where a drone crashed at an event and spewed fuel all over someone "like I blowtorch" (per Tiano's description) causing second degree burns.

But this is just a repeat of the samo samo "oh if they would have old done this" revisionist dream history sequence. Now it's a camera that differentiates what is in the hobby or out, lol. Except of course you know cameras were on fixed wing aircraft years and years before the advent of MR right?

But of course the AMA doing that which you suggest, banning cameras would have been useless and silly.

Thank god the folks on the EC were prescient enough to see the value of being involved with this new and exciting technologies, as they have been for 75 plus years. Otherwise, we'd all be chasing planes like this in the fields.



I know it's not a 10,000 dollar plane but it's still better than those horrid foamies and arfs amiright?
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Old 08-29-2016, 02:59 PM
  #3643  
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[h=1]FAA grants 76 waivers to new UAV rule on first day[/h]Aug 29, 2016Aaron Karp



COMMENTS


FAA

RELATED MEDIA

Gallery: The News in Pictures-August 2016










FAA approved 76 waivers to the new regulations for small unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) operating commercially on just the first morning the agency’s small UAV rule, or Part 107, was in effect.
The waivers allow operators of commercial UAVs weighing less than 55 lbs. to operate beyond the restrictions of the regulations that went into effect Aug. 29, and demonstrate FAA’s willingness to be flexible with the new rule, FAA administrator Michael Huerta said. Part 107 “is a flexible framework,” he told reporters.
Huerta said FAA “estimates there could be as many as 600,000 unmanned aircraft used commercially during the first year after this rule is implemented,” and said the agency wants to enable commercial UAV operations as long as those operations can be conducted safely.
The Part 107 rule restricts commercial UAV users from operating beyond the remote pilot’s line of sight, from operating at night or from operating over people. Huerta said 72 of the 76 waivers issued on the rule’s first day involved night operations. The cable television network CNN was granted a waiver to operate UAVs over people, he said. The administrator said FAA is committed to “quickly” processing waiver applications.
FAA, in fact, is actively developing additional proposed rules that would enable commercial UAV operations over people and outside of the pilot’s line of sight. The over-people proposed rule is expected by the end of 2016, Huerta said.
He and US transportation secretary Anthony Foxx emphasized that the regulations that went into effect Aug. 29 are just part of a “staged process” to allow commercial UAV operations to “flourish,” so long as those operations are safe.
“This is not an isolated set of rules,” Foxx said. “This is part of a larger administration approach to finding the right balance between innovation and safety [regarding commercial UAVs] … We’re going to have to be more nimble and more flexible. That doesn’t mean our approach is going to be unsafe.”
Part 107 does not cover recreational UAV users, for which the rule has been criticized by the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA), which issued a statement calling on “Congress to give the FAA the ability to fully regulate the hobbyists and recreational flyers.”
Foxx said FAA is continuing to work to “ensure people [operating UAVs recreationally] know the rules of the road,” such as avoiding restricted airspace. He pointed to FAA’s December 2015 implementation of a mandatory registry for operators of recreational UAVs weighing between .55 lbs. and 55 lbs., noting that it enables the agency to educate those signing up and gives authorities the ability to track down UAV operators who do not follow rules. “A byproduct of the registry is that consumers are getting to find out what the rules are,” Foxx said.
Huerta said over 530,000 recreational UAV users have registered with FAA.



Old 08-29-2016, 03:01 PM
  #3644  
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Originally Posted by porcia83
We all make choices. I have kids, I work, I'm involved in other ways with the community I live in. Sometimes my kids are with me at clubs and events, sometimes they are not. I budget my time and activities accordingly, and would presume everyone else does a well. Most everyone on the EC is in the same boat, and don't get paid either. I look forward to retiring so I can do more of what I want, but I'm not sure that will be the case. My parents have never been busier, and I see some folks at the club less now than when they worked, so who knows.
Well, then I guess I'm a lesser valued person because I don't have the kind of time to devote to all the volunteering things you've said I should. As I recall become a Leader Member, become a CD, an Officer in the club, etc. Just don't have that kind of time. Glad you do. I don't.

My kids have zero interest in the hobby, so if I take off for a day to fly, I don't get to do things with them on their days off. If I go boating, shooting, bike riding, or even out to the woods to our cabin, they love to go. Head to the flying field? No interest at all.
Old 08-29-2016, 04:36 PM
  #3645  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m
Well, then I guess I'm a lesser valued person because I don't have the kind of time to devote to all the volunteering things you've said I should. As I recall become a Leader Member, become a CD, an Officer in the club, etc. Just don't have that kind of time. Glad you do. I don't.

My kids have zero interest in the hobby, so if I take off for a day to fly, I don't get to do things with them on their days off. If I go boating, shooting, bike riding, or even out to the woods to our cabin, they love to go. Head to the flying field? No interest at all.
Somehow I knew what I chose to do with my own time would be weaponized, just as it was when the whole Leader Member issue came up with you and the others. This constant feeling of not being worthy, or less valued, not breathing the same air as others, not being a leader member etc etc is a symptom of something (i'm thinking projection)but it sure isn't coming from me, that's all on you. Or better yet look to some of the 'traditional" folks who build giant scale and $15,000 turnbines who look down upon the foamy and arf masses. I've never said a single thing about anyone being better than anyone else, so please spare me the insinuation I've said that. I've never used any of those positions/accomplishments or others to say I'm better than anyone else, just noted that I've put my money where my mouth is, and then some, and gotten involved. As I said previously, it's a personal choice. I realize people don't have the time or ability in some instances to do it, I've never even hinted that this is something to look down at anyone else over. We all do what we want, with who we want. It's great to that ability to do so.
Old 08-29-2016, 05:03 PM
  #3646  
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Originally Posted by porcia83
Somehow I knew what I chose to do with my own time would be weaponized, just as it was when the whole Leader Member issue came up with you and the others. This constant feeling of not being worthy, or less valued, not breathing the same air as others, not being a leader member etc etc is a symptom of something (i'm thinking projection)but it sure isn't coming from me, that's all on you. Or better yet look to some of the 'traditional" folks who build giant scale and $15,000 turnbines who look down upon the foamy and arf masses. I've never said a single thing about anyone being better than anyone else, so please spare me the insinuation I've said that. I've never used any of those positions/accomplishments or others to say I'm better than anyone else, just noted that I've put my money where my mouth is, and then some, and gotten involved. As I said previously, it's a personal choice. I realize people don't have the time or ability in some instances to do it, I've never even hinted that this is something to look down at anyone else over. We all do what we want, with who we want. It's great to that ability to do so.
I do take many of your comments as looking down the nose at people who aren't part of the ruling class of Leader Members, Club Officers, AVPs, or EC folks. I lost count of how many times recommendations from me or others was met with some call to get involved, volunteer, become a LM, etc. Why keep pushing that unless the views of those who aren't part of the nobility carry less weight.

And yes, the hobby is not well served by the example you cited above. Have seen it in action, and perhaps it's fitting that they appear to have an operating discipline problem. I honestly could help with that, it's what I do professionally, but I doubt I could get past the culture of invincibility that I think is the root of the problem (my opinion). Hey, what could I possibly know about changing an aviation safety culture? After all, I'm not a turbine waiver holder.

So yes, it does come off that way. You may not mean it that way, but that's how it comes across to me (and perhaps others). Maybe that explains why some of us are down on the AMA? Maybe the "you're not a waiver holder" crap is another? Maybe the comments about "you only fly little planes" might explain it some more.

You've never shied away from criticizing my tone. But then again, perhaps that's appropriate, as I and others are just the "unwashed masses" of not Leader Members, not club officers, not AVPs, and certainly not in the rarefied air of VPs.
Old 08-29-2016, 05:07 PM
  #3647  
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Originally Posted by porcia83
I've put my money where my mouth is, and then some, and gotten involved.
Perfect example right there. If you're not someone who has the time to get involved, then you're not "putting your money where your mouth is." Or, in other words, someone who's to be seen and not heard.
Old 08-29-2016, 05:17 PM
  #3648  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m
I do take many of your comments as looking down the nose at people who aren't part of the ruling class of Leader Members, Club Officers, AVPs, or EC folks. I lost count of how many times recommendations from me or others was met with some call to get involved, volunteer, become a LM, etc. Why keep pushing that unless the views of those who aren't part of the nobility carry less weight.

And yes, the hobby is not well served by the example you cited above. Have seen it in action, and perhaps it's fitting that they appear to have an operating discipline problem. I honestly could help with that, it's what I do professionally, but I doubt I could get past the culture of invincibility that I think is the root of the problem (my opinion). Hey, what could I possibly know about changing an aviation safety culture? After all, I'm not a turbine waiver holder.

So yes, it does come off that way. You may not mean it that way, but that's how it comes across to me (and perhaps others). Maybe that explains why some of us are down on the AMA? Maybe the "you're not a waiver holder" crap is another? Maybe the comments about "you only fly little planes" might explain it some more.

You've never shied away from criticizing my tone. But then again, perhaps that's appropriate, as I and others are just the "unwashed masses" of not Leader Members, not club officers, not AVPs, and certainly not in the rarefied air of VPs.
Originally Posted by franklin_m
Perfect example right there. If you're not someone who has the time to get involved, then you're not "putting your money where your mouth is." Or, in other words, someone who's to be seen and not heard.
LoL, I forgot unwashed masses...too funny.

You missed the part about personal choices right? Rhetorical question....purely rhetorical. I'll have some of my serfs check for responses in the a.m.
Old 08-29-2016, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by porcia83
LoL, I forgot unwashed masses...too funny.

You missed the part about personal choices right? Rhetorical question....purely rhetorical. I'll have some of my serfs check for responses in the a.m.
I didn't miss the personal choices thing. I took that the same way as the other comments...nobility who choose to devote the time vs. the masses that don't.
Old 08-29-2016, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by franklin_m
I didn't miss the personal choices thing. I took that the same way as the other comments...nobility who choose to devote the time vs. the masses that don't.
Well, you might want to look at the comments through a different prism then, not sure where you're coming up with some of this sfuff. Nobility ??, sheesh! We're talking about toy planes and flying, and drone pilots (had to mention that lest someone yells at us for off topic discussion).

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