Go Back  RCU Forums > RC Airplanes > AMA Discussions
Reload this Page >

time to stop the dromes..........NOW

Notices
AMA Discussions Discuss AMA policies, decisions & any other AMA related topics here.

time to stop the dromes..........NOW

Old 12-12-2014, 02:48 PM
  #301  
tailskid
My Feedback: (34)
 
tailskid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Tolleson, AZ
Posts: 9,552
Received 7 Likes on 7 Posts
Default

You call'n be a 'Italian'?????? Well you would be right

I'm not worried about stop'n or kill'n those drones....I'd like to stop the FAA mess'n with US! That is the real danger IMHO.....
Old 12-12-2014, 03:31 PM
  #302  
cj_rumley
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Aguanga, CA
Posts: 1,779
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by tailskid
You call'n be a 'Italian'?????? Well you would be right

I'm not worried about stop'n or kill'n those drones....I'd like to stop the FAA mess'n with US! That is the real danger IMHO.....
Good, because stop'n or kill'n them is a futile no-win approach, Jerry. "Drones" are here to stay, and those with special interests in them have $$$ resources to make that happen. The danger to us is having our models lumped in with their misadventures and FAA's projections of what they must do to regulate them. To put it as politely as possible, AMA's courting of the drone users is counterproductive to maintaining any semblance of separation of our models and activities from them, and is far more a threat to our hobby than the physical resemblance of our aircraft to theirs.
Don't stop the drones. Stop AMA empire building schemes involving the drone industry and user community.
Old 12-12-2014, 03:37 PM
  #303  
tailskid
My Feedback: (34)
 
tailskid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Tolleson, AZ
Posts: 9,552
Received 7 Likes on 7 Posts
Default

"AMA's courting of the drone users is counterproductive"

and that is my point....our hobby will be in the hands of the FAA and that I don't like one bit!
Old 12-12-2014, 04:35 PM
  #304  
Propworn
My Feedback: (3)
 
Propworn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,477
Received 28 Likes on 23 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by crash99
Wow ........ You guys have been busy trying to solve an issue that needs no solving. Bottom line is FPV is here to stay so get over it. I know there was the 3D group, those guys refuse to fly in a pattern. Ban these guys!!! Then there were the evil profile guys. Ban these rebels! They are a cancer to our hobby. Ban these guys!!

ok, help me out they are very large groups and they are still around. Now you want to see the FPV folks Ban? The hottest group in AMA growth. The hottest groups for the LHS! O ya I almost forgot your starting to hate on the AMA too. Yes the AMA is for insurance but it also have what I call fluff. I have to say I don't care about the fluff.

so just relax. If you don't like FPV them go fly what you do like. Just remember one thing. Most of the FPVers have GPS with return to home so that makes them much safer than the circle flyers that loose their airplanes due to they are far away and you just don't see them that great.

what would happen if new REGs came out requiring this to be added to your planes? Just a thought. Remember to put away your hate and go with Life is Good!

Crash99
No problem with the equipment or when its operated in a reasonably safe manner its the idiot operators that are the problem http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2014/...-photographer/
Old 12-12-2014, 05:08 PM
  #305  
JohnShe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Round Hill, VA
Posts: 1,359
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Propworn
No problem with the equipment or when its operated in a reasonably safe manner its the idiot operators that are the problem http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2014/...-photographer/
I told ya' so! ROTFLMAO!
Old 12-12-2014, 06:04 PM
  #306  
HoundDog
My Feedback: (49)
 
HoundDog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Apache Junction AZ. WI 0WI8
Posts: 4,501
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by tailskid
You call'n be a 'Italian'?????? Well you would be right

I'm not worried about stop'n or kill'n those drones....I'd like to stop the FAA mess'n with US! That is the real danger IMHO.....

Funny U say that about the FAA. A very good RCer x Airline Pilot has a daugher that is an Air Traffic Controller in SE Wisconsin. I asked her if they were having any problems with so called Drones. Her comment was t fold. 1. that they were concerned with the NEW TFR/notam about not allowing DRONES to Fly with in 3 miles of a Stadium that seets more than 30,000 for 2 hours before to 2 hours after a secluded event. 2. They have had several people call and ask about the tower notification as to being able to fly with in a certian distance. Her answer was that he would have to have to have a WRITTEN Agreement with the facility, and he would have to notify them befor he started flying and when he finished flying. That way they can warn full scale about the RC activity or rout them around the ares. With that she said the Rank and File controllers She Said are much too busy with controlling traffic and other duities to worry about model airplanes.
Then she said they have been advised / required to follow up on any reports from pilots about Drones. She also stated that the Milwauke FSDO has been out this summer sever week ends because a flight instructor had filed a report that he had seen a couple of RC models under one of the final approach courses. She said the FSDO people were there to catch whom was flying there. She also said that the tower had known of the RC activity for years but no one had ever made a complaint before.

So take it for what it is ... But Bad Mouthing the FAA can be anything but helpful and probblally even very detrimental to our hobby. The people at the FAA are not Stupid and U can bet they at least some one Reads things like these RCU Forums.
Old 12-15-2014, 01:10 PM
  #307  
FLAPHappy
My Feedback: (209)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: right here
Posts: 867
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by HoundDog

Funny U say that about the FAA. A very good RCer x Airline Pilot has a daugher that is an Air Traffic Controller in SE Wisconsin. I asked her if they were having any problems with so called Drones. Her comment was t fold. 1. that they were concerned with the NEW TFR/notam about not allowing DRONES to Fly with in 3 miles of a Stadium that seets more than 30,000 for 2 hours before to 2 hours after a secluded event. 2. They have had several people call and ask about the tower notification as to being able to fly with in a certian distance. Her answer was that he would have to have to have a WRITTEN Agreement with the facility, and he would have to notify them befor he started flying and when he finished flying. That way they can warn full scale about the RC activity or rout them around the ares. With that she said the Rank and File controllers She Said are much too busy with controlling traffic and other duities to worry about model airplanes.
Then she said they have been advised / required to follow up on any reports from pilots about Drones. She also stated that the Milwauke FSDO has been out this summer sever week ends because a flight instructor had filed a report that he had seen a couple of RC models under one of the final approach courses. She said the FSDO people were there to catch whom was flying there. She also said that the tower had known of the RC activity for years but no one had ever made a complaint before.

So take it for what it is ... But Bad Mouthing the FAA can be anything but helpful and probblally even very detrimental to our hobby. The people at the FAA are not Stupid and U can bet they at least some one Reads things like these RCU Forums.
I really doubt the FAA reads or cares about what some nuts publish in RCU Forums. They have much more to worry about.
Old 12-15-2014, 01:37 PM
  #308  
franklin_m
 
franklin_m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: State College, PA
Posts: 4,561
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by FLAPHappy
I really doubt the FAA reads or cares about what some nuts publish in RCU Forums. They have much more to worry about.
Unfortunately though, some of the same nuts that publish here also write inflammatory letters to the FAA...that certainly can't help much.
Old 12-15-2014, 02:58 PM
  #309  
HoundDog
My Feedback: (49)
 
HoundDog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Apache Junction AZ. WI 0WI8
Posts: 4,501
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by FLAPHappy
I really doubt the FAA reads or cares about what some nuts publish in RCU Forums. They have much more to worry about.
Just like he situation with the guys flying under the approach off one of the near by lakes. Only did the FAA get involved after some one made a formal issue of it. There a lot of FAA personal that also Fly Full Scale and a lot thet fly R/C too. So take it for what it's worth Yes they may be too busy with other things but one thing when things to come to their attention especially things they can't igore they turn into Pit Bulls and they don't let go ounce they get a good bite.
Old 12-15-2014, 03:15 PM
  #310  
tailskid
My Feedback: (34)
 
tailskid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Tolleson, AZ
Posts: 9,552
Received 7 Likes on 7 Posts
Default

HoundDog, I like your analogy with the Pit Bulls....
Old 12-16-2014, 06:37 AM
  #311  
franklin_m
 
franklin_m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: State College, PA
Posts: 4,561
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by HoundDog
Just like he situation with the guys flying under the approach off one of the near by lakes. Only did the FAA get involved after some one made a formal issue of it. There a lot of FAA personal that also Fly Full Scale and a lot thet fly R/C too. So take it for what it's worth Yes they may be too busy with other things but one thing when things to come to their attention especially things they can't igore they turn into Pit Bulls and they don't let go ounce they get a good bite.
Agree. Unfortunately, there's a lot of irresponsible flying out there that's getting the FAA's attention. The fact that they're keeping data on it is a ominous sign - it's making the issue visible to decision makers and regulators. Unfortunately, I think it's a weakness in the AMA's case that they don't have an enforcement arm. FAA can legitimately ask this question: "Ok, AMA, so you want to be the CBO....how exactly will you handle members who are at a field open to the public and they're violating your 'guidelines?" "What exactly will your ORGANIZATON do about that?" I'd be really interested in hearing AMA's response.

Last edited by franklin_m; 12-16-2014 at 06:38 AM. Reason: Add formatting
Old 12-16-2014, 06:57 AM
  #312  
JohnShe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Round Hill, VA
Posts: 1,359
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by franklin_m
Agree. Unfortunately, there's a lot of irresponsible flying out there that's getting the FAA's attention. The fact that they're keeping data on it is a ominous sign - it's making the issue visible to decision makers and regulators. Unfortunately, I think it's a weakness in the AMA's case that they don't have an enforcement arm. FAA can legitimately ask this question: "Ok, AMA, so you want to be the CBO....how exactly will you handle members who are at a field open to the public and they're violating your 'guidelines?" "What exactly will your ORGANIZATON do about that?" I'd be really interested in hearing AMA's response.
I really don't think you guys get it. It is really simple. First, the AMA and the FAA do not have enforce the rules directly. Clubs can limit membership and flying privileges to AMA and club members because they "own" the field and are responsible for safety at the field. If anyone wants to fly at a non-club site or a public site, they must obey the spirit of the safety guidelines. If they fail to do so and do something so stupid that it causes a problem, then local law enforcement, the FAA and any litigious injured party can see to it that they are properly punished.
Old 12-16-2014, 07:33 AM
  #313  
HoundDog
My Feedback: (49)
 
HoundDog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Apache Junction AZ. WI 0WI8
Posts: 4,501
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by franklin_m
Agree. Unfortunately, there's a lot of irresponsible flying out there that's getting the FAA's attention. The fact that they're keeping data on it is a ominous sign - it's making the issue visible to decision makers and regulators. Unfortunately, I think it's a weakness in the AMA's case that they don't have an enforcement arm. FAA can legitimately ask this question: "Ok, AMA, so you want to be the CBO....how exactly will you handle members who are at a field open to the public and they're violating your 'guidelines?" "What exactly will your ORGANIZATON do about that?" I'd be really interested in hearing AMA's response.
Hey Navy:
All Law enforcement is after the fact. You can't arrest or prosecute some one for what they might do. Only ounce something seems to have become a problem do the authority's attempt to do something, Speeding is aginst the law but everone does it every day and no one says anything until something happens Like an accident. This is not a totalitarian state YET. The FAA has the power to charge people with infractions of the FAR's and have people especially trained to investigate FAR infractions. Now the AMA could do the same thing, But U wouldn't like it. Lets say the FAA could require the AMA to designate one or two individuals from every chartered club with reporting any and all infractions of AMA or even club ruels to the AMA for disciplinary action. How would U like to be one of those guys?
Old 12-16-2014, 07:37 AM
  #314  
Silent-AV8R
 
Silent-AV8R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 5,312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

AMA, nor any other membership organization that I am aware of, has any enforcement authority beyond being able to suspend membership. This happened once already in the case of the fellow in Las Vegas a few years backs (in the early days of FPV) who was fond of flying up in the pattern for McCarran and posting videos of his adventures. AMA suspended his membership. I do not ever see this changing. It would be like thinking that the NRA should enforce gun laws. Not ever going to happen.
Old 12-16-2014, 08:12 AM
  #315  
bradpaul
 
bradpaul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Apopka, FL
Posts: 1,367
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by franklin_m
Agree. Unfortunately, there's a lot of irresponsible flying out there that's getting the FAA's attention. The fact that they're keeping data on it is a ominous sign - it's making the issue visible to decision makers and regulators. Unfortunately, I think it's a weakness in the AMA's case that they don't have an enforcement arm. FAA can legitimately ask this question: "Ok, AMA, so you want to be the CBO....how exactly will you handle members who are at a field open to the public and they're violating your 'guidelines?" "What exactly will your ORGANIZATON do about that?" I'd be really interested in hearing AMA's response.
You do realize that a "Safety Coordinator" is a required officer position with email access to charter an AMA Club? And the AMA does publish guidelines for the "Safety Coordinator" position.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/920.pdf

Section 4. Safety Coordinator

To promote increased safety awareness on the part of all members, improve the public perception of
modeling as a safe and desirable sport, and provide a means by which important safety information can be
shared between clubs, AMA chartered clubs are required to establish the position of safety coordinator. This
person will act as a communications liaison between the club and AMA Headquarters to ensure timely
distribution of safety related material. The club safety coordinator must have E-mail access.

Recommended Duties:
1) Provide a communications link between AMA and clubs in matters related to safety.
2) Act as a safety advisor and resource manager for the club and its members.
3) Assist AMA in the establishment of a national safety program to reduce accidents/incidents.
4) Develop, promote, and encourage a climate of safety awareness within AMA clubs.

Safety Coordinator activities may include the following:
• Inspect operational areas for proper signage and safety equipment as applicable.
• Conduct safety awareness training and related programs during club meetings.
• Conduct, at least annually, a safety audit of club facilities, equipment, and grounds to ensure
everything is in good working order and safe for normal use by members and the public.
• Act as a liaison with the local EMS/Fire Department.
• Establish a club emergency action plan to handle serious accidents/incidents.
• Immediately report to AMA Headquarters any incidents at the club field. During normal business
hours, call (765) 287-1256; after hours call (765) 749-9210.
• Coordinate appropriate first aid training for members using qualified instructors.
• Develop an appropriate communications plan to assist club officers and members.
• Review emergency procedures (fire and rescue) with club members on an annual basis.

Note: This list is provided to illustrate the range of activities a Safety Coordinator could engage in. Authority to
enforce the AMA Safety Code or any additional club safety rules should be contained in the club bylaws in
accordance with your individual situation.


So enforcement needs to be established in the Club Charter and the Safety Coordinator is who the AMA communicates with.
Old 12-16-2014, 08:33 AM
  #316  
HoundDog
My Feedback: (49)
 
HoundDog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Apache Junction AZ. WI 0WI8
Posts: 4,501
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by bradpaul
You do realize that a "Safety Coordinator" is a required officer position with email access to charter an AMA Club? And the AMA does publish guidelines for the "Safety Coordinator" position.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/920.pdf



So enforcement needs to be established in the Club Charter and the Safety Coordinator is who the AMA communicates with.
Our club VP is the safety officer. When I was the VP/Safety officer I tried to enforce the rules ... It doesn't work unless U get the backing of most of the members and the Officers. All I ever heard was we're to hav fun and if all U R going to complain about people breaking the rules no body is having any fun. The next VP did nothing and the Next said all club members should be Safety officers and police each other ... Well U can imagine how that works. Safety is something a person wants to do, If they aren't Safety Consonance and people are willing to over look it their isn't a thing a safety officer with out the backing of the members can do.

It got so bad that for a 2 year period no one would even talk to me. That was 3 years ago and I've bit my toung ever since and not said a thing about Safety to anyone ... guess what some have started conversing with me again ...People don't to be told of their indescreations even if it in dangers others. But you know who the biggest violators are The IN CROWD the klickes and the Officers, Because the popular people get elected to office
. U can make all the rules U want about Safety but if people aren't willing it just ain't gonna happen.
Old 12-16-2014, 09:38 AM
  #317  
cj_rumley
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Aguanga, CA
Posts: 1,779
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by bradpaul
You do realize that a "Safety Coordinator" is a required officer position with email access to charter an AMA Club? And the AMA does publish guidelines for the "Safety Coordinator" position.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/920.pdf



So enforcement needs to be established in the Club Charter and the Safety Coordinator is who the AMA communicates with.
Brad,

Having served in that position for one of the clubs I belong to, this observation: Nothing in the cited job description says the SC is a cop. I had that discussion several times with people that called on me to enforce club rules, and my answer was talk to the offender yourself. The club BoD reserved authority to make and enforce rules to themselves. Since they want the control it is only reasonable they have the responsibility. Besides, club officers are covered by AMA insurance for personal injury (libel) that may be incurred in the course of taking enforcement action against a member. I don't think an SC is covered for that risk, only the club officers designated in the policy.
In the ~ 3 years I held that position Duty #1 was a no-op, because there was no communication from AMA relating to safety for me as designated POC to pass on to the club. Makes me wonder what safety 'programming' is if there is any substance at all. AFAIK it is vaporware. Any thoughts?
Old 12-16-2014, 10:41 AM
  #318  
flyingnut28
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sparks, NV
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

The Fox News link is a good link; everyone thinking it's okay to fly models near airports or full size aircraft should see this. Thanks.

Last edited by flyingnut28; 12-16-2014 at 10:42 AM. Reason: to be more specific
Old 12-16-2014, 11:06 AM
  #319  
N410DC
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Cartersville, GA
Posts: 360
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by franklin_m
Agree. Unfortunately, there's a lot of irresponsible flying out there that's getting the FAA's attention. The fact that they're keeping data on it is a ominous sign - it's making the issue visible to decision makers and regulators. Unfortunately, I think it's a weakness in the AMA's case that they don't have an enforcement arm. FAA can legitimately ask this question: "Ok, AMA, so you want to be the CBO....how exactly will you handle members who are at a field open to the public and they're violating your 'guidelines?" "What exactly will your ORGANIZATON do about that?" I'd be really interested in hearing AMA's response.
Originally Posted by bradpaul
You do realize that a "Safety Coordinator" is a required officer position with email access to charter an AMA Club? And the AMA does publish guidelines for the "Safety Coordinator" position.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/920.pdf

So enforcement needs to be established in the Club Charter and the Safety Coordinator is who the AMA communicates with.
Good point, bradpaul. However, I think the FAA would be happier with some clearer enforcement guidelines, regarding what kinds of violations should be reported to the AMA Headquarters, or even to the FAA itself.
Old 12-16-2014, 11:16 AM
  #320  
bradpaul
 
bradpaul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Apopka, FL
Posts: 1,367
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by cj_rumley
Brad,

Having served in that position for one of the clubs I belong to, this observation: Nothing in the cited job description says the SC is a cop. I had that discussion several times with people that called on me to enforce club rules, and my answer was talk to the offender yourself. The club BoD reserved authority to make and enforce rules to themselves. Since they want the control it is only reasonable they have the responsibility. Besides, club officers are covered by AMA insurance for personal injury (libel) that may be incurred in the course of taking enforcement action against a member. I don't think an SC is covered for that risk, only the club officers designated in the policy.
In the ~ 3 years I held that position Duty #1 was a no-op, because there was no communication from AMA relating to safety for me as designated POC to pass on to the club. Makes me wonder what safety 'programming' is if there is any substance at all. AFAIK it is vaporware. Any thoughts?
Yes there is a issue with how to keep flying safe. But it is very telling that the general consensus is that the FPV flyers need education and to follow safe flying guidelines, but nobody want's to take the responsibility to make it happen.

One clarification the Safety Coordinator is a requied officer position and would be conered by the insurance.
Old 12-16-2014, 11:23 AM
  #321  
N410DC
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Cartersville, GA
Posts: 360
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by bradpaul
Yes there is a issue with how to keep flying safe. But it is very telling that the general consensus is that the FPV flyers need education and to follow safe flying guidelines, but nobody want's to take the responsibility to make it happen....
Actually, there is at least one organization that seems pretty interested in UAV "education" and "safe flying guidelines."

Unmanned Autonomous Vehicle System Association UAVSA
Old 12-16-2014, 11:41 AM
  #322  
cj_rumley
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Aguanga, CA
Posts: 1,779
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by N410DC
Actually, there is at least one organization that seems pretty interested in UAV "education" and "safe flying guidelines."

Unmanned Autonomous Vehicle System Association UAVSA
Good point, that seems the right organization to do it. AMA for which the EC has earmarked $250,000 to cover start-up cost to develop a program to do that for non-modeling interests is not. The downside for modelers is that AMA involvement in commercial/public UAS will effectively erase the thin line that allows FAA to make a distinction between us and them in setting regulatory policy.
Old 12-16-2014, 12:45 PM
  #323  
bradpaul
 
bradpaul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Apopka, FL
Posts: 1,367
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

At $84 a year (Enthusiast) with no insurance, I just don't see a huge rush to membership. Heck with all the *****ing and moaning about AMA dues at $58 with insurance and a magazine why would uneducated FPV flyers pay $84 for no insurance and YES HEAVEN FORBID A MAGAZINE?
Old 12-16-2014, 12:55 PM
  #324  
porcia83
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Hartford, CT
Posts: 7,269
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

I hear the magazine is good for lining pet cages?

Safety officer role is appointed in our club, and it's a tough role sometimes. We do note at every meeting however, all members of the club are safety officers. If they see something...they say something. Or are supposed to at least. If said if they allow something reckless, they are almost as responsible as the person doing it. We've only had one instance of someone getting verbal, and then written warning. The next step was out of the club. Didn't have a problem after that.
Old 12-16-2014, 02:04 PM
  #325  
franklin_m
 
franklin_m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: State College, PA
Posts: 4,561
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by bradpaul
You do realize that a "Safety Coordinator" is a required officer position with email access to charter an AMA Club? And the AMA does publish guidelines for the "Safety Coordinator" position.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/920.pdf



So enforcement needs to be established in the Club Charter and the Safety Coordinator is who the AMA communicates with.
As someone who does policy making for a living, I'd note the soft non specific words like "advisor", "coordinate", "awareness training", "promote", and "encourage" and the complete absence of words like "enforce." Hence my comment about lack of an enforcement arm.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.