View Poll Results: Do we really need the AMA???
Voters: 316. You may not vote on this poll
Do we really need the ama, or is it just like auto insurance...another ripoff?
12-15-2014, 09:25 AM
#126
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http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/911.pdf
excerpt:
To preserve the availability of low cost insurance to your club and its site owner, the people who fly with your club should
contribute their share of that cost. They can do so by becoming dues paying members of your AMA charter club as well. In the
same vein, if the landowner for your club’s chartered club field has granted the club exclusive flying privileges, the club
should ONLY allow AMA members and current members of the Model Aeronautics Association of Canada (MAAC) to fly at
the field. If your club is flying on public land and it has not been granted exclusive flying rights by the public agency in
charge, your club activities should be confined to AMA members, and you are not responsible for other (non-AMA) flier’s
actions. Should the public agency be named as an additional insured, it has coverage only for the actions of your club, its
members, and other visiting AMA members who are considered guests
contribute their share of that cost. They can do so by becoming dues paying members of your AMA charter club as well. In the
same vein, if the landowner for your club’s chartered club field has granted the club exclusive flying privileges, the club
should ONLY allow AMA members and current members of the Model Aeronautics Association of Canada (MAAC) to fly at
the field. If your club is flying on public land and it has not been granted exclusive flying rights by the public agency in
charge, your club activities should be confined to AMA members, and you are not responsible for other (non-AMA) flier’s
actions. Should the public agency be named as an additional insured, it has coverage only for the actions of your club, its
members, and other visiting AMA members who are considered guests
12-15-2014, 09:50 AM
#127
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YES, we do need an AMA, The Academy of Model Aeronautics. Yet more so, we need a clientele of membership that has the smarts to recognize that a significant amount of a real AMA would be to organize the fields of model aviation and care for the many different interests among the overall membership. IMO, a real AMA would be more inclined to provide a true organizational grouping of the aero-modeler population than what I see is simply a bunch of upper staff members that, again IMO, do not provide much more than a typical magazine of staff and extreme amounts of paid advertising. I wonder just where the most of those $$$ go?
Yet, why would the membership do much more? Some 15% at most vote for whatever AMA hands out, and 85% +/- do nothing but pay "for their insurance". That kind of membership simply allows the AMA Staff to do whatever they please, whenever they please with the monies coming into their hands.
I have favored the AMA for many years like some 70 years. I still do and I will continue to do so, Unfortunately the vast majority of the membership does NOT deserve any thing more so than what AMA throws at them. What a frigging shame for the most of you, but you well deserve it. You recently had a real chance to get a lot of things accomplished, but reading the ads took over and you just sit here. SO SAD!
Yet, why would the membership do much more? Some 15% at most vote for whatever AMA hands out, and 85% +/- do nothing but pay "for their insurance". That kind of membership simply allows the AMA Staff to do whatever they please, whenever they please with the monies coming into their hands.
I have favored the AMA for many years like some 70 years. I still do and I will continue to do so, Unfortunately the vast majority of the membership does NOT deserve any thing more so than what AMA throws at them. What a frigging shame for the most of you, but you well deserve it. You recently had a real chance to get a lot of things accomplished, but reading the ads took over and you just sit here. SO SAD!
Well said of so many 'flyers' today. The AMA is our only voice with the FAA. The AMA doesn't have an 'enforcement' arm, it's 'rules' are little more than suggestions that any properly raised semi-intelligent person would observe and follow, yet there are some who don't have any common sense at all. The insurance is there simply to give a 'Warm fuzzy feeling' to some people, but I'm sure that there have been payouts from it in the past, and probably will be in the future. The biggest thing the AMA gives us is a collective voice in Washington. I've been waiting for years for the FAA or other govt. agency to 'regulate' the hobbyists who participate, and i'm pretty sure we'll see some govt. regulation in the near future. Perhaps it will be toned down a bit due to the AMA being present as our representatives.
As far as the idiots flying the multi-rotor camera platforms... I'm just waiting and hoping for those things to be regulated into non-existence, something that they (the moron operators who don't have a clue what modeling is) have brought about themselves. I don't believe your normal rc'er belongs in that group, so not only is the AMA needed, it needs to be supported by the membership. I'm as guilty as the next guy about with my 'just let me build and fly and leave me alone' attitude. Never been a club officer, but maybe that attitude needs to change, both on the local as well as national level, before we don't have a hobby to enjoy.
And as long as it's December, i guess it is time to renew, isn't it?
BTW, i Proudly voted Yes!
12-15-2014, 10:26 AM
#128
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YES, we do need an AMA, The Academy of Model Aeronautics. Yet more so, we need a clientele of membership that has the smarts to recognize that a significant amount of a real AMA would be to organize the fields of model aviation and care for the many different interests among the overall membership. IMO, a real AMA would be more inclined to provide a true organizational grouping of the aero-modeler population than what I see is simply a bunch of upper staff members that, again IMO, do not provide much more than a typical magazine of staff and extreme amounts of paid advertising. I wonder just where the most of those $$$ go?
Yet, why would the membership do much more? Some 15% at most vote for whatever AMA hands out, and 85% +/- do nothing but pay "for their insurance". That kind of membership simply allows the AMA Staff to do whatever they please, whenever they please with the monies coming into their hands.
I have favored the AMA for many years like some 70 years. I still do and I will continue to do so, Unfortunately the vast majority of the membership does NOT deserve any thing more so than what AMA throws at them. What a frigging shame for the most of you, but you well deserve it. You recently had a real chance to get a lot of things accomplished, but reading the ads took over and you just sit here. SO SAD!
Yet, why would the membership do much more? Some 15% at most vote for whatever AMA hands out, and 85% +/- do nothing but pay "for their insurance". That kind of membership simply allows the AMA Staff to do whatever they please, whenever they please with the monies coming into their hands.
I have favored the AMA for many years like some 70 years. I still do and I will continue to do so, Unfortunately the vast majority of the membership does NOT deserve any thing more so than what AMA throws at them. What a frigging shame for the most of you, but you well deserve it. You recently had a real chance to get a lot of things accomplished, but reading the ads took over and you just sit here. SO SAD!
There is nothing frigging shameful for anyone here, who are you to tell anyone what the vast majority of the AMA membership deserves? My god, how presumptuous. So what exactly was the chance to accomplish things that was "blown" ? Are you talking about a failed attempt at election to an office? Someone here spent months campaigning at every turn, and took multiple shots at the office, and missed out. Some folks were probably turned off to the constant drumbeat posts, and posts like the one above.
The VOTERS spoke (albeit not nearly enough). Bitter, post loss projections onto the AMA membership is SAD. Like the chance to get something accomplished is gone because ONE PERSON didn't get elected? Please.
12-15-2014, 10:31 AM
#129
Yes I belong to a club and am a club officer, We insure 2 sites one private property one on city owned land. The one on city owned land we negotiated as a club a 25 year lease at a $1.00 a year. As far as insurance we have had one incident a club member hit another vehicle. AMA turned down the claim and it was paid by the members home owners. We also allow new members fly under a members AMA as a instructor. We also have many people here working at Ft Bliss on temporary status and like them fly for free as long as they have insurance as guests. we also charge active Military $0 dues because it's the right thing to do. As far as your "SFA did not go out and find the site" what the heck does that have to do with anything? Since when does the AMA decide anything as far as a lease with the county they provide site owner insurance nothing more correct?. I also don't see why the county would exclude flyers who could provide insurance coverage unless you r club just did not want them and the SFA there. The SFA guys were fellow modelers who had insurance correct? What you don't need any fresh blood in your club or new dues revenue? I never said no insurance or shove the existing club off did I? What I said was your attitude is one heck of a way to promote the hobby not to mention not playing well with others. I'm sorry I just don't buy it the situation with SFA members could have been worked to satisfy everyone. Guess it just wasn't worth the effort to you all.
How about you are you a club officer? If your not part of the solution then your part of the problem.
Thank God I'm associated with a great group of guys and belong to a club that sees the value in promoting our hobby.
Mike Taylor
Club Contact/Secretary
Horizon City Flyers
How about you are you a club officer? If your not part of the solution then your part of the problem.
Thank God I'm associated with a great group of guys and belong to a club that sees the value in promoting our hobby.
Mike Taylor
Club Contact/Secretary
Horizon City Flyers
Larry
President
Wyoming Valley R/C Flyers
12-15-2014, 01:16 PM
#130
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Auto insurance seems like a ripoff, until you get into an accident and have a $1,000,000 lawsuit failed against you. If you are insured, your insurance pays for you defense and any settlement/judgment against you (up to your policy maximum, obviously.) If you are not insured, you write a check for $1,000,000, or you loose all of you possessions and have your wages garnished for the rest of you life.
In the end, the AMA dues ($58) are not a lot for a $1,000,00 liability coverage, $25,000 medical, $10,000 for dismemberment/death, and $1,000 for models that are lost to fire or vandalism.
When you buy insurance, you do so with the knowledge that you will probably never have claims that exceed the cost of your premiums. Insurance protects you against what might happen, not what is likely to happen.
When I was a child, my parent's medical insurance company paid over a million dollars for chemotherapy, radiation, a dozen hospital stays, and misc. doctor's fees after I was diagnosed with Leukemia. My father is 70 years old now, and my parents still have not paid that amount in medical insurance premiums since they were born. I have never heard them complain about paying medical insurance premiums.
In the end, the AMA dues ($58) are not a lot for a $1,000,00 liability coverage, $25,000 medical, $10,000 for dismemberment/death, and $1,000 for models that are lost to fire or vandalism.
When you buy insurance, you do so with the knowledge that you will probably never have claims that exceed the cost of your premiums. Insurance protects you against what might happen, not what is likely to happen.
When I was a child, my parent's medical insurance company paid over a million dollars for chemotherapy, radiation, a dozen hospital stays, and misc. doctor's fees after I was diagnosed with Leukemia. My father is 70 years old now, and my parents still have not paid that amount in medical insurance premiums since they were born. I have never heard them complain about paying medical insurance premiums.
12-15-2014, 01:33 PM
#131
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Mike
12-15-2014, 01:33 PM
#132
(http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/I...aryMembers.pdf).
12-15-2014, 03:48 PM
#134
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I also don't see why the county would exclude flyers who could provide insurance coverage unless you r club just did not want them and the SFA there. The SFA guys were fellow modelers who had insurance correct? What you don't need any fresh blood in your club or new dues revenue? I never said no insurance or shove the existing club off did I? What I said was your attitude is one heck of a way to promote the hobby not to mention not playing well with others. I'm sorry I just don't buy it the situation with SFA members could have been worked to satisfy everyone. Guess it just wasn't worth the effort to you all.
How about you are you a club officer? If your not part of the solution then your part of the problem.
How about you are you a club officer? If your not part of the solution then your part of the problem.
12-15-2014, 04:02 PM
#135
If you had looked at the document, you would have seen what "AMA does allow....." which is the once-per-lifetime buddy box flight for a guest, or or the Intro Pilot deal. The qualification of some alternative for non members 'should' not be allowed to do in the para I cited infer 'shall not be allowed to do.' AMA threatened clubs with loss of charter for allowing non members to fly, back in the bad old days before they killed SFA. That tends to clarify their meaning in an actions speaking louder than words sense. You wrote
If that is how you feel, why does the club that you are an officer of generally exclude non members?
If that is how you feel, why does the club that you are an officer of generally exclude non members?
The other exception is that the person signs up as a student under the Intro Pilot Program with an Intro Instructor. and the proper paper work is completed first and sent to the AMA with in 48 hours of the flight.
Last edited by HoundDog; 12-15-2014 at 04:05 PM.
12-15-2014, 04:18 PM
#136
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It does seem like a lot to me when AMA insurance "is 'excess' to any other applicable coverage, such as homeowner's", and "Reimburses medical expenses only after submission to any other health plan, including Medicare," and loss or theft that is also in "excess' to any other applicable coverage, such as homeowner’s."
(http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/I...aryMembers.pdf).
(http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/I...aryMembers.pdf).
it's an excess policy, and even at $58.00 not a bad deal. But it's not really 58.00 for the coverage, that's the amount to renew AMA (even less in some cases). Lets say that even half of that goes for insurance (doubtful, but give me at least this one), is $29.00 that much? No. And how many members don't carry any underlying insurance at all? Plenty!
12-15-2014, 05:16 PM
#137
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When I joined the military and move to Tennessee, I was forced to purchase an AMA membership. Now being out and back home, our local club doesn't require it and I don't intend on buying in on it ever again, at least for the next 3-7 years anyway.
12-15-2014, 05:35 PM
#138
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I believe that some of the people in these forums, are actually employed, by the AMA. Quite a few of them put up some very adamant arguments, on what seems like, the behest, of the AMA.
12-15-2014, 05:53 PM
#139
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It does seem like a lot to me when AMA insurance "is 'excess' to any other applicable coverage, such as homeowner's", and "Reimburses medical expenses only after submission to any other health plan, including Medicare," and loss or theft that is also in "excess' to any other applicable coverage, such as homeowner’s."
(http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/I...aryMembers.pdf).
(http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/I...aryMembers.pdf).
The reasons for AMA providing insurance for the club and site owner are honorable and do promote model aviation (for members only) by mitigating liability concerns of potential flying site owners. The personal insurance is not needed to promote model aviation, and making paying for it mandatory is probably more of a deterrent to promotion of model aviation to potential modelers/members than supporting of that purpose.
12-15-2014, 05:53 PM
#140
HoundDog said: ". The exception at the Arizona club if U have an AMA card U can pay $10/day to fly."
For some reason I do NOT understand the $10/day item......One club I used to belong to (also in Phoenix) does the same thing....."Welcome to "XXXX" now pay us $10 because you just drove 14 hours, hauled your planes which made for a very uncomfortable 'ride' with the SO and now you want to use up OUR air........
My current club has the OPPOSITE policy....you have to fly 'with' us for a month or two (for free) before we vote on accepting you as a member. For some reason, we are growing.....
And 'SnowBirds' are WELCOME!!!!
For some reason I do NOT understand the $10/day item......One club I used to belong to (also in Phoenix) does the same thing....."Welcome to "XXXX" now pay us $10 because you just drove 14 hours, hauled your planes which made for a very uncomfortable 'ride' with the SO and now you want to use up OUR air........
My current club has the OPPOSITE policy....you have to fly 'with' us for a month or two (for free) before we vote on accepting you as a member. For some reason, we are growing.....
And 'SnowBirds' are WELCOME!!!!
12-15-2014, 06:24 PM
#141
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Sounds brutal. Did they torture you?
12-15-2014, 06:29 PM
#142
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You know that, just because someone actually likes the AMA doesn't necessarily mean that he (or she) works for the AMA. We can't all be AMA haters.
12-15-2014, 06:30 PM
#143
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Did you really expect to have everyone jump on the "lets hate the AMA" bandwagon with this thread/poll? Or was this just another way to try to say you'll fly however you want?
12-15-2014, 06:36 PM
#144
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Originally Posted by Maximilionalpha 
I believe that some of the people in these forums, are actually employed, by the AMA. Quite a few of them put up some very adamant arguments, on what seems like, the behest, of the AMA.
Good going John...give that infidel what for!
12-15-2014, 09:25 PM
#146
Originally Posted by Maximilianus I believe that some of the people in these forums, are actually employed, by the AMA. Quite a few of them put up some very adamant arguments, on what seems like, the behest, of the AMA.
Good going John...give that infidel what for!
Max and Kranky and a few others should just turn your 2015 AMA card and ask for your dues back ... if U hate the AMA that much Don't be so Hypocritical .. The AMA doesn't need your, I would guess, $48 bucks.
12-16-2014, 04:36 AM
#147
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If you had looked at the document, you would have seen what "AMA does allow....." which is the once-per-lifetime buddy box flight for a guest, or or the Intro Pilot deal. The qualification of some alternative for non members 'should' not be allowed to do in the para I cited infer 'shall not be allowed to do.' AMA threatened clubs with loss of charter for allowing non members to fly, back in the bad old days before they killed SFA. That tends to clarify their meaning in an actions speaking louder than words sense. You wrote
If that is how you feel, why does the club that you are an officer of generally exclude non members?
If that is how you feel, why does the club that you are an officer of generally exclude non members?
Now lets look at the AMA document you posted does not state anywhere it it that you cannot what it says is you "should not" there is a big difference. Should not is not can not. Should is a "suggestion". Just like there suggestions as far as field lay out they are just that suggestions nothing more. Why does it not say "can not" or "does not allow"rather than "should"?
Mike
Last edited by rcmiket; 12-16-2014 at 06:36 AM.
12-16-2014, 06:18 AM
#148
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.... and the reason I rarely post. The OP was asking the question "Do we really Need the AMA?" He probably should've left off the 'auto insurance' part, as the insurance is only a small benefit provided by the organization. Like others have pointed out, this hobby would probably have been dead decades ago without the lobbying by the AMA of the FCC and FAA and other branches of the Federal Govt. for things like dedicated frequencies and recognition of the hobby as a worthwhile endeavor. So instead of thinking about what they've done for the hobby, it turns into a bashing of the organization.
Personally, I value what they've done for modelers. The Nats, international competition, frequency control and procurement, running 'interference' between hobbyists and the FAA over airspace regulation, and a lot of other work that seems to never get recognized. Basically, if you don't like 'em, quit paying the dues! Oh wait! The AMA helped get that flying site you love so much and you can't fly without being a member. Well, guess it's time to quit complaining and pony up. Let's compare the cost of the AMA dues to other pasttimes... Golf, for a round at the local muni $40.00 + beer, a yearly pass, over $500.00. You like to hunt or fish? Land leases around here run over $1000, fishing boats need to be licensed. Go to NFL or MLB Games... uh, we're not going to mention how much one game ticket with parking and refreshments costs.
The hobby has evolved tremendously over the past 40-50 years. Remember when the Sig Catalog was about 1 1/2 inches thick, everything was in 'kit' form that you spent quite a bit of time building, and only Lanier made ARFs and those were heavy, ugly, and you really didn't want to even show up at the field with one? We've all got a sizable investment in equipment and aircraft, as well as a love of the sport. For those who don't want to participate or get involved with the AMA, fine... don't. But don't go whining when that 40%er winds up being a very large, expense static display. Sorry, but there's a bunch of whining crybabys on here sometimes. I'll just quietly slip back into lurking mode.
Personally, I value what they've done for modelers. The Nats, international competition, frequency control and procurement, running 'interference' between hobbyists and the FAA over airspace regulation, and a lot of other work that seems to never get recognized. Basically, if you don't like 'em, quit paying the dues! Oh wait! The AMA helped get that flying site you love so much and you can't fly without being a member. Well, guess it's time to quit complaining and pony up. Let's compare the cost of the AMA dues to other pasttimes... Golf, for a round at the local muni $40.00 + beer, a yearly pass, over $500.00. You like to hunt or fish? Land leases around here run over $1000, fishing boats need to be licensed. Go to NFL or MLB Games... uh, we're not going to mention how much one game ticket with parking and refreshments costs.
The hobby has evolved tremendously over the past 40-50 years. Remember when the Sig Catalog was about 1 1/2 inches thick, everything was in 'kit' form that you spent quite a bit of time building, and only Lanier made ARFs and those were heavy, ugly, and you really didn't want to even show up at the field with one? We've all got a sizable investment in equipment and aircraft, as well as a love of the sport. For those who don't want to participate or get involved with the AMA, fine... don't. But don't go whining when that 40%er winds up being a very large, expense static display. Sorry, but there's a bunch of whining crybabys on here sometimes. I'll just quietly slip back into lurking mode.
12-16-2014, 06:31 AM
#149
Whether it is cheap or a lot doesn't matter much in my mind. I have plenty of insurance (HO, PUP, Med) to meet my perception of what is prudent for my circumstances. I don't like paying for AMA personal insurance or anything else that I don't want or need. Bubble gum is cheap. I have no want or need for and so don't buy bubble gum, and nobody tells me I have to in order to have the freedom to pursue a recreational activity.
The reasons for AMA providing insurance for the club and site owner are honorable and do promote model aviation (for members only) by mitigating liability concerns of potential flying site owners. The personal insurance is not needed to promote model aviation, and making paying for it mandatory is probably more of a deterrent to promotion of model aviation to potential modelers/members than supporting of that purpose.
The reasons for AMA providing insurance for the club and site owner are honorable and do promote model aviation (for members only) by mitigating liability concerns of potential flying site owners. The personal insurance is not needed to promote model aviation, and making paying for it mandatory is probably more of a deterrent to promotion of model aviation to potential modelers/members than supporting of that purpose.
12-16-2014, 06:42 AM
#150
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I'll probably start a firestorm here, but actually I'd rather see more of my AMA $$ go directly to flying site assistance & insurance, with dramatic cuts to competitions, the Muncie facility, the museum, and the magazine. If AMA wants to promote flying, they need to have more places to fly - it's pretty simple. How many new members are going to join AMA due to the Muncie facility? How many new members will join because of the museum? How may will join because of the magazine?
Did you know the AMA EC spent $250,000.00 on for the continuance of a program to essentially train pilots in the "light commercial" and "purposeful use" of FPV/UAS/Drones. That's a chunk of change to fight a losing battle IMO. It was a very close vote if I recall.
Mike
Last edited by rcmiket; 12-16-2014 at 07:30 AM.