View Poll Results: Do we really need the AMA???
Voters: 316. You may not vote on this poll
Do we really need the ama, or is it just like auto insurance...another ripoff?
#251
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I have flown rc airplanes in open fields unregulated open pavement were you flew at your own risk and I have found that the structure and guidance set by the ama and the chartered clubs that I fly at provide a fun and safe environment ! that is why I am an ama and club member.
#252
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And that is fine! Everybody has their own preferences.
I like to be alone when I fly, nobody hassling me with questions or telling me where I can do whatever it is I want to do.
A long as we can agree to our own disciplines and still come together to fight the FAA, things will turn out ok.
I like to be alone when I fly, nobody hassling me with questions or telling me where I can do whatever it is I want to do.
A long as we can agree to our own disciplines and still come together to fight the FAA, things will turn out ok.
#253
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3 things ...1.) The FAA is government Congress Is government we have to talk Politics when discussing These government. agencies ...
2.) We won't be licensed if we Obey the Rules of the CBO. With out some sort of test and a peice of paper how do U prove U know the Rules. And 3.) Not If but when someone (because They have no Idea of the rules of the CBO) as a recreational flyer interferes with the flight of a maned aircraft or worse, U going to tell me all the kids the AMA signed up for FREE have read or even know of the AMA/CBO Rules. Not a chance. How many of U think that people read the warnings that come with all the models sold through Hobby Shops and mail order today to Join the AMA and fly only at places away from houses, people and no congested places.
If U believe the Rules of the CBO are being followed by the 70% of people flying some sort of R/C plane today U are sorely mistaken. Need proof Look on You Tube or the Go Pro Channel or any internet place that's supports that kind of video. These people don't in most cases don't know of the rules of the AMA/CBO nor do they care about any rules. Most AMA members can't even get the rules of their own CBO right when asked to explain them.SEC. 336. SPECIAL RULE FOR MODEL AIRCRAFT.
2.) We won't be licensed if we Obey the Rules of the CBO. With out some sort of test and a peice of paper how do U prove U know the Rules. And 3.) Not If but when someone (because They have no Idea of the rules of the CBO) as a recreational flyer interferes with the flight of a maned aircraft or worse, U going to tell me all the kids the AMA signed up for FREE have read or even know of the AMA/CBO Rules. Not a chance. How many of U think that people read the warnings that come with all the models sold through Hobby Shops and mail order today to Join the AMA and fly only at places away from houses, people and no congested places.
If U believe the Rules of the CBO are being followed by the 70% of people flying some sort of R/C plane today U are sorely mistaken. Need proof Look on You Tube or the Go Pro Channel or any internet place that's supports that kind of video. These people don't in most cases don't know of the rules of the AMA/CBO nor do they care about any rules. Most AMA members can't even get the rules of their own CBO right when asked to explain them.SEC. 336. SPECIAL RULE FOR MODEL AIRCRAFT.
- (a) In General- Notwithstanding any other provision of law relating to the incorporation of unmanned aircraft systems into Federal Aviation Administration plans and policies, including this subtitle, the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration may not promulgate any rule or regulation regarding a model aircraft, or an aircraft being developed as a model aircraft, if--
- .
- (b) Statutory Construction- Nothing in this section shall be construed to limit the authority of the Administrator to pursue enforcement action against persons operating model aircraft who endanger the safety of the national airspace system.
Now how do U expect the "
- I'm saying,The FAA is going to have to, Through some one like a CBO/AMA, make sure that anyone/everyone Reads and proves they understand the Rules pertaining to Model air planes / sUASbefore they are allowed to fly in the NAS.
Proving that one knows and understands the Rules of a CBO/AMA in order to fly as a hobbyist is not making any rules pertaining to the flying of model aircraft. It's just proving U know the Rules.
I can't quote the AMA safety code verbaitim, but I know how to obey it on my clubs flying field.
#254
Senior Member
Rich.
#255
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My hidden fears are that the AMA is trying to put itself in the FAA's face and insist that only AMA members be allowed to fly models, since the AMA is self policing and the national 'voice' of modeldom. It will never work out, because I think that AMA members are 50% or less (way less) of the total model flying population in the US.
Besides, no matter how hard the AMA tries to police model flyers, there will always be uninformed ppl who will go online, buy an ARF and go to the local park and fly. Why join the Coast Guard Axillary if I'm only using my boat in the local lake?
Besides, if a model flyer, (airplane , helicopter, quad, hand launch glider) does do something to jeopardize the national airspace, if it's serious enough,the FAA will deal with that individual directly through the courts. I doubt if they will ask the AMA to take care of the incident 'in house'.
Besides, even though I fly in my family’s fields and not at club I'm still a safe pilot and am still insured with my homeowners insurance. (which I'm lead to believe every AMA member must use before their AMA insurance kicks in). I have well over 100 built models with about 30 ready to fly at any time. The last crash I had was in the mid 90's when a Free Flight I converted to r/c folded one wing when I tried to spiral out of a strong thermal. When I go the local club for their fun fly in summer some pilots go through (crash) airplanes one a month. Who needs the insurance most?
Besides, I'm not an idiot just because I don't belong to a club. I used to belong to model rocket clubs, model airplane clubs, EAA chapters, the National Aeronca Club, and the Silver Wings club. Dropped 'em all because of the internal squabbling. I want to enjoy my flying, it's my time away from the hassles of life, not to add to them.
This is supposed to be fun, let's keep it that way.
Besides, no matter how hard the AMA tries to police model flyers, there will always be uninformed ppl who will go online, buy an ARF and go to the local park and fly. Why join the Coast Guard Axillary if I'm only using my boat in the local lake?
Besides, if a model flyer, (airplane , helicopter, quad, hand launch glider) does do something to jeopardize the national airspace, if it's serious enough,the FAA will deal with that individual directly through the courts. I doubt if they will ask the AMA to take care of the incident 'in house'.
Besides, even though I fly in my family’s fields and not at club I'm still a safe pilot and am still insured with my homeowners insurance. (which I'm lead to believe every AMA member must use before their AMA insurance kicks in). I have well over 100 built models with about 30 ready to fly at any time. The last crash I had was in the mid 90's when a Free Flight I converted to r/c folded one wing when I tried to spiral out of a strong thermal. When I go the local club for their fun fly in summer some pilots go through (crash) airplanes one a month. Who needs the insurance most?
Besides, I'm not an idiot just because I don't belong to a club. I used to belong to model rocket clubs, model airplane clubs, EAA chapters, the National Aeronca Club, and the Silver Wings club. Dropped 'em all because of the internal squabbling. I want to enjoy my flying, it's my time away from the hassles of life, not to add to them.
This is supposed to be fun, let's keep it that way.
Last edited by aeronca52; 12-20-2014 at 04:10 PM.
#256
Hey Aeronca52!, Point well made. I have flown a long time none AMA.And a long time with the AMA. They lost my numbers in the move from the east to Indiana,Makes you wonder how they can police anything.AMA member now, the club rules.I guess it's alright to fly with a club if I don't have home-owners,or renters?
#257
Senior Member
First, the insurance issue. If you look, and I have, unless you have a rider, there is the aircraft exclusion, and a model, even one of the cheap Guillows gliders is an aircraft to them. Damage to property, injury to someone else, no rider,no coverage and some companies don't even offer a rider. You may feel you're a safe pilot, until the injured party's lawyer starts on the incompetent, careless, irresponsible, that you'll be forced to try to counter. It does, and has happened.
Second, if there's a violation warranting prosecution, the FAA won't even give a thought to someone else prosecuting it, that's their realm and they're not going to let anyone else try to step in. Period.
It's not about your rights member or not, it's about the responsibility that comes with that right and a lot of people don't want to accept it. Someone may have the right to fly models, there are a lot that don't want the responsibility of doing so in a safe and reasonable manner. Those are the ones complaining. For nothing. Not even a NPRM yet, more than likely, never will be.
I assume when you say 50% or less, you're including the park fliers, which may or may not be true. However, they remain the only organized voice of model aviation in the US. Clubs are kinda caught in a trap, insurance is necessary, outside the AMA it's also nonexistent. AMA isn't going to extend coverage to non members, and it's not even reasonable to think they should. I don't see that as infringing on anything, they provide what is otherwise unobtainable.
Rich.
Second, if there's a violation warranting prosecution, the FAA won't even give a thought to someone else prosecuting it, that's their realm and they're not going to let anyone else try to step in. Period.
It's not about your rights member or not, it's about the responsibility that comes with that right and a lot of people don't want to accept it. Someone may have the right to fly models, there are a lot that don't want the responsibility of doing so in a safe and reasonable manner. Those are the ones complaining. For nothing. Not even a NPRM yet, more than likely, never will be.
I assume when you say 50% or less, you're including the park fliers, which may or may not be true. However, they remain the only organized voice of model aviation in the US. Clubs are kinda caught in a trap, insurance is necessary, outside the AMA it's also nonexistent. AMA isn't going to extend coverage to non members, and it's not even reasonable to think they should. I don't see that as infringing on anything, they provide what is otherwise unobtainable.
Rich.
#258
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Thanks binns,
I guess if you don't have any home/renters insurance then maybe AMA becomes your primary insurance. IDK.
I used to be an AMA member years ago but soured on it when a local club moved to a field within 1/8 mile of my house (!). Shortly after, one of the members called on me to tell me I could no longer fly in my backyard over my family's fields, (which I'd been doing for well over 25 years at that point) because they were an AMA chartered club and I was not. Talk about raising the hackles on one's neck. I politely told him what frequency I had been flying on, and would continue flying on, and suggested they avoid using that channel. Long story short, the neighbors 1/4 mile on the other side of the club were so annoyed by the club's low flying and buzzing all weekend the club disbanded within 2 years.
I continued flying, but avoided anything with AMA on it after that.
BTW I'm in Bethlehem.
I guess if you don't have any home/renters insurance then maybe AMA becomes your primary insurance. IDK.
I used to be an AMA member years ago but soured on it when a local club moved to a field within 1/8 mile of my house (!). Shortly after, one of the members called on me to tell me I could no longer fly in my backyard over my family's fields, (which I'd been doing for well over 25 years at that point) because they were an AMA chartered club and I was not. Talk about raising the hackles on one's neck. I politely told him what frequency I had been flying on, and would continue flying on, and suggested they avoid using that channel. Long story short, the neighbors 1/4 mile on the other side of the club were so annoyed by the club's low flying and buzzing all weekend the club disbanded within 2 years.
I continued flying, but avoided anything with AMA on it after that.
BTW I'm in Bethlehem.
#259
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You nailed it Greybeard, responsibility! Without it, any pilot becomes a public risk.
In today's world, anybody in control (or not) of a radio control moving object is at risk. Model airplane or car, just hit little Johnny in the playground and you are going to have to pay his ER visit or worse. Even a hit in the back of the head with a hand launched glider is subject. But how does a guy who built a Walmart Guillows model go about knowing about the AMA and it's coverage? Or even think his rubber band and tissue P-51 is sue-worthy?
FWIW I asked my homowner insurance lady specifically about model airplanes and she said I was covered.
In today's world, anybody in control (or not) of a radio control moving object is at risk. Model airplane or car, just hit little Johnny in the playground and you are going to have to pay his ER visit or worse. Even a hit in the back of the head with a hand launched glider is subject. But how does a guy who built a Walmart Guillows model go about knowing about the AMA and it's coverage? Or even think his rubber band and tissue P-51 is sue-worthy?
FWIW I asked my homowner insurance lady specifically about model airplanes and she said I was covered.
#261
Senior Member
Rich.
#262
Hey aeronca52., Just to keep the fire burnin, I was in a club in North Jersey,three didget charter number toboot. Club pres. turned out to be a convicted child molester (boy scouts). Came to light when the BSA went public with old records.(this occured in the 80's) He let the club decide if he could stay.Morals are great thing, HELL NO,, out he went! I became pres. had close to 45 members and flew in a state park,with permission,He went on to try and sue the members,and the state couldn't legally keep him out of the park. We disbanded and formed a new club in New York State. The AMA could care less about the problem we had.But were glad to charter our new club.
#263
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No, Rich, it wasn't the frequency thing, it was the attitude that I had to stop doing something I had been doing for 26 odd years ( in my own backyard)just because they moved into the neighborhood. They could have just as easily first asked what channel I was on and offer to avoid it. But no, the first words were, 'you can't fly here anymore'.
I'm open minded enough to realize the whole membership of the AMA didn't try to forbid me from backyard flying. For all I know maybe the guy who came to my house didn't even have the club's backing. (but he said he did). FWIW my dad taught this fellow and his brother how to fly, so maybe he felt he 'matured' enough to tell us what to do. As I'm typing this I distinctly remember him telling us (my dad was flying with me that day) he didn't want this confrontation to turn into a 'sticky situation', we should just quit flying.
FWIW on the other side of town there are 2 clubs, the second picked a field within 5 miles of the first, which immediately tried to shut the 2nd down. Both AMA charted. Not that there's anything wrong with that, just saying it out loud.
Like I said, 'hassles', I don't need them anymore.
That said, I'm not an AMA hater. The AMA has done great things for model aviaiton, but I just don't need to be a member anymore.
Let's have fun.
I'm open minded enough to realize the whole membership of the AMA didn't try to forbid me from backyard flying. For all I know maybe the guy who came to my house didn't even have the club's backing. (but he said he did). FWIW my dad taught this fellow and his brother how to fly, so maybe he felt he 'matured' enough to tell us what to do. As I'm typing this I distinctly remember him telling us (my dad was flying with me that day) he didn't want this confrontation to turn into a 'sticky situation', we should just quit flying.
FWIW on the other side of town there are 2 clubs, the second picked a field within 5 miles of the first, which immediately tried to shut the 2nd down. Both AMA charted. Not that there's anything wrong with that, just saying it out loud.
Like I said, 'hassles', I don't need them anymore.
That said, I'm not an AMA hater. The AMA has done great things for model aviaiton, but I just don't need to be a member anymore.
Let's have fun.
Last edited by aeronca52; 12-20-2014 at 05:54 PM.
#264
Senior Member
Rich.
#265
Senior Member
No, Rich, it wasn't the frequency thing, it was the attitude that I had to stop doing something I had been doing for 26 odd years ( in my own backyard)just because they moved into the neighborhood. They could have just as easily first asked what channel I was on and offer to avoid it. But no, the first words were, 'you can't fly here anymore'.
Let's have fun.
Let's have fun.
Rich.
#266
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Missed my point. That being, apparently nobody in the club checked, nobody asked AMA anything, it sounds like one member took it on himself to play God. AMA would have told him outright that their authority for anything ends precisely at the boundary of their field, and not one inch further. Attitude,yes, but the attitude of one member or one club, and not that of the AMA. He didn't want it to turn into a sticky situation, probably because he knew he would be the one stuck. They can request, you don't have to grant it, They can't dictate.
Rich.
Rich.
The owner of the field actually came down to see my models twice and we got along great. But the others i never met.
Last edited by aeronca52; 12-20-2014 at 06:20 PM.
#267
Hey Grey! The state only allowed use to fly as a CHARTERED club, thats by the AMA!, so the AMA can't revoke a charter? The only members left may total 3, and one of them is a CONVICTED CHILD MOLESTER!, I guess the AMA condones this in it's youth centered organization.
#268
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BTW Good to have you here giving a position on the perspective of a true individual about the need of AMA. Kudos to you!
#269
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BTW Good to have you here giving a position on the perspective of a true individual about the need of AMA. Kudos to you![/QUOTE]
You're very welcome. I try to be objective in the written word.
You're very welcome. I try to be objective in the written word.
#270
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Believe me I can tell... true words without agenda or bias when spoken...
Just for fun, here is just a little litmus test for those that say/vote they need the AMA... "Its a shame that so many people are so dependent on the AMA, for their pursuit of the hobby."
Now watch, even though forewarned, there will likely be those that will weigh in give some goofy rationale to twist the meaning of their need of AMA. Seen it, at the very least, a few hundred times now.
Just for fun, here is just a little litmus test for those that say/vote they need the AMA... "Its a shame that so many people are so dependent on the AMA, for their pursuit of the hobby."
Now watch, even though forewarned, there will likely be those that will weigh in give some goofy rationale to twist the meaning of their need of AMA. Seen it, at the very least, a few hundred times now.
Last edited by littlecrankshaf; 12-20-2014 at 07:34 PM.
#271
Senior Member
Hey Grey! The state only allowed use to fly as a CHARTERED club, thats by the AMA!, so the AMA can't revoke a charter? The only members left may total 3, and one of them is a CONVICTED CHILD MOLESTER!, I guess the AMA condones this in it's youth centered organization.
Rich.
#272
Senior Member
Rich.
#274
I'm not an AMA fan. This from a club officer of many years They've screwed me and my club on a couple occasions.
Prices go up and coverage drops and rules pile up.
They dont have have the full hobbys aspect in mind either IMHO. I mostly fly foamies and don't need a quarter million dollars coverage (not that I'd ever see any of that money paid out in an accident). Yet if I want to fly my 12oz outdoor foamies at the club or my 4ox indoor foamies with the club at a public gym I still have to pay the full price for membership. What damage I could do with those planes I'd pay out of pocket anyway. Why do I need them.
Im im not a fan and after many years of being a member I've become less and less positive minded tward them. I won't be paying for there "no customer service" (to quote Clark Howard) and their pretend insurance coverage any more. My local park an back yard are free to use.
Go go ahead and blast away on why I'm wrong yada yada. Don't care. Won't be following this thread. Just adding my 2cents to the posed question.
Prices go up and coverage drops and rules pile up.
They dont have have the full hobbys aspect in mind either IMHO. I mostly fly foamies and don't need a quarter million dollars coverage (not that I'd ever see any of that money paid out in an accident). Yet if I want to fly my 12oz outdoor foamies at the club or my 4ox indoor foamies with the club at a public gym I still have to pay the full price for membership. What damage I could do with those planes I'd pay out of pocket anyway. Why do I need them.
Im im not a fan and after many years of being a member I've become less and less positive minded tward them. I won't be paying for there "no customer service" (to quote Clark Howard) and their pretend insurance coverage any more. My local park an back yard are free to use.
Go go ahead and blast away on why I'm wrong yada yada. Don't care. Won't be following this thread. Just adding my 2cents to the posed question.
#275
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Hi;
I had voted yes to the AMA. Although I have never been a AMA member yet. I used to fly from the late 70's to late 80's, then quit because I got into computers. Sometimes I regret leaving the hobby. I am going to try and get back into it this Spring though. I am strictly glider/sailplane pilot. I like to search for thermals and take it easy. And being said, I can fly almost anywhere without bothering someone. But I am thinking about joining a club this time around and you have to have a AMA membership to do so around here. When I flew, I always flew with no one was around if some people started to come around I would quit and come back on a different time. I wanted to avoid any accidents. I have a nephew that's wants to get into flying. And I told him the best way is to get someone to teach him and he needed to belong to a club to have that happen, so he will need to have a AMA membership. He told he would teach himself , I told him bad idea.
I had voted yes to the AMA. Although I have never been a AMA member yet. I used to fly from the late 70's to late 80's, then quit because I got into computers. Sometimes I regret leaving the hobby. I am going to try and get back into it this Spring though. I am strictly glider/sailplane pilot. I like to search for thermals and take it easy. And being said, I can fly almost anywhere without bothering someone. But I am thinking about joining a club this time around and you have to have a AMA membership to do so around here. When I flew, I always flew with no one was around if some people started to come around I would quit and come back on a different time. I wanted to avoid any accidents. I have a nephew that's wants to get into flying. And I told him the best way is to get someone to teach him and he needed to belong to a club to have that happen, so he will need to have a AMA membership. He told he would teach himself , I told him bad idea.