Go Back  RCU Forums > RC Airplanes > AMA Discussions
Reload this Page >

Ama should have left faa alone!

Notices
AMA Discussions Discuss AMA policies, decisions & any other AMA related topics here.

Ama should have left faa alone!

Old 04-02-2015, 06:01 AM
  #26  
[email protected]
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: hemet , CA
Posts: 1,164
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

how do i tell if iam 400 foot
Old 04-02-2015, 06:50 AM
  #27  
f16man
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: MANTECA, CA
Posts: 1,264
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by [email protected]
how do i tell if iam 400 foot
Yea no sh$t 400 hundred feet is higher than I ever fly.....
Old 04-02-2015, 06:57 AM
  #28  
littlecrankshaf
My Feedback: (58)
 
littlecrankshaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: here
Posts: 5,413
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by f16man
Yea no sh$t 400 hundred feet is higher than I ever fly.....
I guess you never flew gliders or sailplanes then.
Old 04-02-2015, 07:01 AM
  #29  
Sport_Pilot
 
Sport_Pilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Acworth, GA
Posts: 16,916
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

The pattern height is about 75 to 100 feet for most. Most people just learning and flying high with a trainer to allow time for a big mistake is near or above 400 feet. The box for aerobatic competiion is 1000 feet and sailplanes and large free flights are often well above that.
Old 04-02-2015, 07:11 AM
  #30  
Sport_Pilot
 
Sport_Pilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Acworth, GA
Posts: 16,916
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by [email protected]
how do i tell if iam 400 foot
Stand back from your model a fixed distance say 20 feet, hold a stick in front of you a fixed distance say 2 feet. put the stick at the nose or tail of the plane and mark on the stick where the other end of the plane falls on that. Now if the plane was 10 feet in front of the stick then it will appear 1/40 the the size at 400 feet. So if the mark on the stick was 12 inches then the plane will be 20/400x12=.6 inches.

I think I have those ratios right, but if not jump in.
Old 04-02-2015, 07:17 AM
  #31  
Sport_Pilot
 
Sport_Pilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Acworth, GA
Posts: 16,916
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by phlpsfrnk
The basic question is unanswered. Should the 400 ft. limit advisory or otherwise just be ignored?
I quoted you where you indicated that the AMA did not ignore this fact, now you are asking if we should ignore this? No I think the AMA should be working to resolve this. That is if there really is anything to resolve. Perhaps if they mark model airfields on sectional maps similar to parachuting and sailplane operations.

Now what to use for a symbol? Not a quad, maybe an Ugly Stick?
Old 04-02-2015, 07:21 AM
  #32  
littlecrankshaf
My Feedback: (58)
 
littlecrankshaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: here
Posts: 5,413
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot
I quoted you where you indicated that the AMA did not ignore this fact, now you are asking if we should ignore this? No I think the AMA should be working to resolve this. That is if there really is anything to resolve. Perhaps if they mark model airfields on sectional maps similar to parachuting and sailplane operations.

Now what to use for a symbol? Not a quad, maybe an Ugly Stick?
A quad is good...
Old 04-02-2015, 07:59 AM
  #33  
f16man
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: MANTECA, CA
Posts: 1,264
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by littlecrankshaf
I guess you never flew gliders or sailplanes then.
Ya I have but not into em they don't make that good noise and they be ugly lol....
Old 04-02-2015, 03:14 PM
  #34  
Silent-AV8R
 
Silent-AV8R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 5,312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot
Perhaps if they mark model airfields on sectional maps similar to parachuting and sailplane operations.

Now what to use for a symbol? Not a quad, maybe an Ugly Stick?
Here is how the PVMAC field is marked on the Los Angeles Sectional
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	PVMAC.jpg
Views:	100
Size:	209.5 KB
ID:	2085893  
Old 04-02-2015, 05:50 PM
  #35  
OliverJacob
My Feedback: (12)
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Reedsburg, WI
Posts: 700
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Silent-AV8R
Here is how the PVMAC field is marked on the Los Angeles Sectional
Very good. I wish we could get all of our flying sites on the charts.
Old 04-02-2015, 06:00 PM
  #36  
Silent-AV8R
 
Silent-AV8R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 5,312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by OliverJacob
Very good. I wish we could get all of our flying sites on the charts.
Unfortunately it came about because of a number of significant "incidents" where models and full size conflicted. Never an accident, but the manned guys made enough noise that this was part of the way that the field was allowed to stay where it is, inside the Class D for Chino (CNO).
Old 04-02-2015, 06:31 PM
  #37  
ira d
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Maricopa County AZ
Posts: 3,249
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by OliverJacob
Very good. I wish we could get all of our flying sites on the charts.

+ 1 Also I think this was the first place the FAA should have started when they became interested in models.
Old 04-02-2015, 06:43 PM
  #38  
OliverJacob
My Feedback: (12)
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Reedsburg, WI
Posts: 700
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

We fly at a small airport as well. Some of the pilots fly right above our field at a low altitude (this is their home airport and they know we are there). We'd like to be on the charts so we have a little more ground to stand on.
We are an 'AMA chartered' club, I think they should be working on getting us on the charts.
Old 04-02-2015, 09:18 PM
  #39  
ira d
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Maricopa County AZ
Posts: 3,249
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by OliverJacob
We fly at a small airport as well. Some of the pilots fly right above our field at a low altitude (this is their home airport and they know we are there). We'd like to be on the charts so we have a little more ground to stand on.
We are an 'AMA chartered' club, I think they should be working on getting us on the charts.
So many times when someone in charge becomes aware of a problem they tend to go for the one solution route, In model airplanes most of the burden and restrictions are placed on
the modeler but many don't realize that the more solutions you employ the more effective you will be in accomplishing your goal. That being said restrictions need to placed on full
scale just as much if not more in some cases to do as much as possible to enhance safety for interaction between models and full scale.
Old 04-03-2015, 03:38 AM
  #40  
phlpsfrnk
Senior Member
 
phlpsfrnk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Spring Hill, FL
Posts: 893
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by OliverJacob
Very good. I wish we could get all of our flying sites on the charts.
They don't necessarily have to be marked on the chart. There are other ways.



Frank
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Grand Haven.gif
Views:	111
Size:	237.1 KB
ID:	2085990  
Old 04-03-2015, 03:47 AM
  #41  
phlpsfrnk
Senior Member
 
phlpsfrnk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Spring Hill, FL
Posts: 893
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by ira d
+ 1 Also I think this was the first place the FAA should have started when they became interested in models.
They have to be notified of where we are at and the AMA and flyers in general seem reluctant to provide that information or how to make those notifications. Remember "When flying aircraft within 3 miles of an airport, notify the airport..." That was written in 1981.

Frank
Old 04-03-2015, 06:17 AM
  #42  
OliverJacob
My Feedback: (12)
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Reedsburg, WI
Posts: 700
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

thanks, but we are not on the charts and not in the remarks or otherwise mentioned. An unfamiliar pilot would not know that there are rc aircraft close to the field. And we are inside the traffic pattern.
Old 04-03-2015, 08:24 AM
  #43  
ira d
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Maricopa County AZ
Posts: 3,249
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by phlpsfrnk
They have to be notified of where we are at and the AMA and flyers in general seem reluctant to provide that information or how to make those notifications. Remember "When flying aircraft within 3 miles of an airport, notify the airport..." That was written in 1981.

Frank
The FAA could have demanded that the AMA disclose the location of all it's chartered sites and for flyers not using a charted site it would be law they notify the FAA if they
fly within 3 mi of a airport. The FAA should have a website and/or a 800 number for this purpose.
Old 04-03-2015, 09:07 AM
  #44  
HoundDog
My Feedback: (49)
 
HoundDog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Apache Junction AZ. WI 0WI8
Posts: 4,501
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Wow Only 4 names I don't recognize .. Looks like the RT's have found a new place. the first RT took only 1 hour and 57 minutes to find a new forum after the other one died.. Sorry just had to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The real problem as I see it, Really came to a head when the AMA or whom ever went to Congress and more or less authored (Or caused to be authored) Amendment #336. Originally Congress gave the FAA the authority to Promote all aviation in the USA and to modernize the whole ATC system. Then because The FAA perceived (either correctly or Not) that Congress/AMA was trying to tell the FAA, not only "What to do but HOW to Do It". This be Pertaining to one small group, less than 175,000 in number or less and a grand total of less than 1/2 Million special interests.

What happened then IMHO (if I may) is that the FAA Being almost as powerful as the IRS & Just as Dominating, took exception to the intrusion of congress on the FAA perceived duty to regulate every man made object, Not tied to the earth, operating in the NAS. After amendment #336 inception "Telling the "GOD's" of the FAA that they were not all powerful and had to make exceptions to their Pending New FAR's". This Ruffled a bunch of feathers, so to speak, at the FAA and they could not let this discretion pass with out some form of rebuttal. This caused the FAA to pick apart Amendment #336 Line by line and thus was born the FAA's Misinterpretation of what
congress had originally attempted to do by Exempting TOY Airplanes from Federal Regulation While flying in NAS.

If Aesop had written this as a Fable, The Moral to the story would/should be Don't mess with Bureaucrats and tell them "HOW to do their Job." It rarely will turn out (as in this case) the way one expects or wishes.


OK: Now tell me how wrong I am. Believe me I've gotten used to it

Foot Note: With only 617,128 active certificated pilots, and that number declining every year that the FAA might Relish another 1/2 Million people that were "Under their Governance so to speak, by making their TOY Airplanes subject to the FAR's. Again just some food for thought.
  1. As of the end of 2013, in the US, there were an estimated 617,128 active certificated pilots. This number has been declining gradually over the past several decades, down from a high of over 827,000 pilots in 1980. There were 702,659 in 1990 and 625,581 in 2000. The numbers include:
Old 04-04-2015, 07:52 AM
  #45  
HoundDog
My Feedback: (49)
 
HoundDog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Apache Junction AZ. WI 0WI8
Posts: 4,501
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by [email protected]
how do i tell if iam 400 foot
That is what telemetry is for I have a box with a complete GPS set up in it that I move from Plane to plane and all I have to do is plug in to the receiver. Gives me GPS position, Ground Speed and GPS altitude... all newer 2.4 Ghz radios are capable of Telemetry. Try it U'll love it better than FPV except if your FPV has an OSD with GPS read outs. U never have to be afraid of running out of Battery with the right set up either. And it only a couple of bucks more.

The other advantage is when/if My plane goes down I can Take the GPS coord's and Put them into a hand held GPS and walk right to my downed plane in the 10' corn or where ever.
Old 04-04-2015, 08:07 AM
  #46  
HoundDog
My Feedback: (49)
 
HoundDog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Apache Junction AZ. WI 0WI8
Posts: 4,501
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by OliverJacob
thanks, but we are not on the charts and not in the remarks or otherwise mentioned. An unfamiliar pilot would not know that there are rc aircraft close to the field. And we are inside the traffic pattern.
Simple Put them on the charts

At towered air ports Controllers/ATIS warns arriving and departing Pilots all the time of hazard to flight. Where there is a AWOS (Automatic Weather Observation Station) It has continues broad of weather and an announcement can be added to the end of the broadcast. i.e. 250' unlighted crane on the 248 degrees radial of xyz VOR or Active Model air plane field 2,9 miles @ 180 degrees from airport.

All towers/Power lines/ect. are charted on all VFR charts why not Chartered Model air plane fields. With all modern GPS's and Glass Panel planes those warnings come to the attention of the Pilot when they become a factor to safe flight.

Another way is that in 2020 all aircraft that have an electrical system must be equipped with ADS-B witch brodcasts a planes position speed heading and altitude to all other aircraft with in range. An ADS-B transmitter could be set up to tell aircraft there are air planes in the air.
See there are many ways to skin the CAT.
Old 04-04-2015, 04:00 PM
  #47  
PLANE JIM
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (109)
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: AT THE AIRPORT
Posts: 2,005
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by HoundDog
Simple Put them on the charts

At towered air ports Controllers/ATIS warns arriving and departing Pilots all the time of hazard to flight. Where there is a AWOS (Automatic Weather Observation Station) It has continues broad of weather and an announcement can be added to the end of the broadcast. i.e. 250' unlighted crane on the 248 degrees radial of xyz VOR or Active Model air plane field 2,9 miles @ 180 degrees from airport.






All towers/Power lines/ect. are charted on all VFR charts why not Chartered Model air plane fields. With all modern GPS's and Glass Panel planes those warnings come to the attention of the Pilot when they become a factor to safe flight.

Another way is that in 2020 all aircraft that have an electrical system must be equipped with ADS-B witch brodcasts a planes position speed heading and altitude to all other aircraft with in range. An ADS-B transmitter could be set up to tell aircraft there are air planes in the air.
See there are many ways to skin the CAT.
or simply outlaw all model activities within 5 miles of the airport-if we are hazard we should not be in the same airspace.
Old 04-04-2015, 04:18 PM
  #48  
OliverJacob
My Feedback: (12)
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Reedsburg, WI
Posts: 700
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

I agree with this regulation at large - or let's say very busy airports. We are class G airspace, no tower and just a flew planes fly here on a nice day.
We don't bother anybody, but a recent expansion brought up some concerns form the FAA. They would love to put a large fence around any airport and
don't let anybody enter the area.
But then the costs would be very high and being a public airport (which to great parts financed by the city, aka taxpayer), they need to play nice.

We don't want to cause any trouble, we do have some great supporters in the airport commission and be happy to use an unused taxi way for our runway.
So it would be nice (and logical) to get marked on the charts or at least a remark in the a/p information.

Anything and anybody can be a hazard if intended to be...
Old 04-04-2015, 04:28 PM
  #49  
bradpaul
 
bradpaul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Apopka, FL
Posts: 1,367
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by PLANE JIM
or simply outlaw all model activities within 5 miles of the airport-if we are hazard we should not be in the same airspace.
Well that would be interesting as the AMA international Aeromodeling Center is bordered on the south side by an airport.
Old 04-04-2015, 04:44 PM
  #50  
HoundDog
My Feedback: (49)
 
HoundDog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Apache Junction AZ. WI 0WI8
Posts: 4,501
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by PLANE JIM
or simply outlaw all model activities within 5 miles of the airport-if we are hazard we should not be in the same airspace.
If the FAA had their way Nothing that they don't control would fly in the NAS, even Geese Unless the geese had XPONDERS.
Of course that is foolish. About as foolish as NOT allowing all R/C flying with in 3/5 miles of an airport. If U look at any airports instrument approaches most have the altitudes and distance from Runways planes are allowed to come down to on an instrument approach. VFR aircraft fly a pattern usually 1000' AGL and within 5/8 to 1-1/14 miles of the runway until abeam their touch down point where they start a decent to the runway in a descending right or left turn to the approach end of the runway.

Then there those of us that fly on airports, For the last 45+ years with no incidents or accidents at all. We Just give way to all full scale on the ground and in the air. In fact when the corn get's high enough where w cannot see planes coming from the Hangers on the North side of the airport we station a spotter at the intersection of our E-W model runway and the fields N-S runway. He has an air horn and triggers one blast when a full scale is about to Take Off or Land. then 2 blasts when all clear. If a model is in the air they stay well clear of the full scale runway and circle to the east or land short. Check it out copy and paste 0WI8 into google maps. we fly North East of the Intersection of the N-S & the E-W runway.

Many Chartered R/C fields have been flying with in the 3/5 mile radius of airports for years with very few incidents and as fare as I know never any collision with full scale aircraft. If anyone knows of any such collision at a chartered R/C field with in the proximity of a full scale airport please enlighten all of us.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.