Dues increase coming? 1 million spent on government relations.....
06-18-2015, 03:40 AM
#209
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Just how much do you think the AMA will spend fighting the "drone" problem? This is not about providing the membership with a better product. This increase is nothing but fund generator to fuel a losing battle with the feds. As I have posted in the past most "drones" are sold to people who have no intention of joining the AMA or even care about regulations that are now in place. Now Sam's Club who have been selling the cheaper DJI online now plan on a full line in their stores. Gee what could possibility go wrong there and just how can all the money spent fix it? You can not educate or regulate people that just don"t care.
We the AMA members are funding a losing battle. Before you think I just hate "drones" I use them along with sell them here in the LHS. I see first hand everyday who's buying them and I can tell you that 99.9% of our sales go too people who will more than likely be part of the problem. We try and educate them but it's falling on deaf ears. That's the cold hard reality of the situation.
Mike
We the AMA members are funding a losing battle. Before you think I just hate "drones" I use them along with sell them here in the LHS. I see first hand everyday who's buying them and I can tell you that 99.9% of our sales go too people who will more than likely be part of the problem. We try and educate them but it's falling on deaf ears. That's the cold hard reality of the situation.
Mike
Last edited by rcmiket; 06-18-2015 at 03:49 AM.
06-18-2015, 04:59 AM
#210
Just how much do you think the AMA will spend fighting the "drone" problem? This is not about providing the membership with a better product. This increase is nothing but fund generator to fuel a losing battle with the feds. As I have posted in the past most "drones" are sold to people who have no intention of joining the AMA or even care about regulations that are now in place. Now Sam's Club who have been selling the cheaper DJI online now plan on a full line in their stores. Gee what could possibility go wrong there and just how can all the money spent fix it? You can not educate or regulate people that just don"t care.
We the AMA members are funding a losing battle. Before you think I just hate "drones" I use them along with sell them here in the LHS. I see first hand everyday who's buying them and I can tell you that 99.9% of our sales go too people who will more than likely be part of the problem. We try and educate them but it's falling on deaf ears. That's the cold hard reality of the situation.
Mike
We the AMA members are funding a losing battle. Before you think I just hate "drones" I use them along with sell them here in the LHS. I see first hand everyday who's buying them and I can tell you that 99.9% of our sales go too people who will more than likely be part of the problem. We try and educate them but it's falling on deaf ears. That's the cold hard reality of the situation.
Mike
06-18-2015, 05:11 AM
#211
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That's a easy one it's because anyone and I mean ANYONE can fly one ( I mean operate). You don't have to have any skill to fly one of these. Everyone wants the "hot item" . They think they can do the impossible and they try and do it.
Put the same person on a airplane and watch what happens.
Mike
Put the same person on a airplane and watch what happens.
Mike
Last edited by rcmiket; 06-18-2015 at 05:13 AM.
06-18-2015, 05:17 AM
#212
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if the dues are raised ill do like i said i can fly anyplace i dont need a club to belong to> like the man sais no club dues no ama more for planes>>some day a lot of you flyers will be on ss and old then you will see whats going on
06-18-2015, 06:10 AM
#214
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rcmiket has been making some excellent points on the drone issue but I do hope his alluding to the losing battle with the FAA is not an endorsement to lay down and let the FAA have their way with us, it may well not be a winnable battle but I for one, do not want to go down without a fight. [email protected], I am also on SSN and at 67, not near your age, but I can absorb the dues increase, do not want to and sincerely hope that cooler heads prevail at AMA HQ and only up it 5 or 10% rather than go for the whole enchilada in one shot, I think it would be counterproductive, but if they did, I could absorb in my RC budget easily, just one less $20 tower order in a year and all's well, if $20 is that big of a deal in an annual budget then the $48.00 (senior citizen discount) has got to be unbearable, so maybe you need to go fly in the desert. I don't mean to sound callous, but that might be your best option even without a dues increase.
06-18-2015, 07:06 AM
#215
06-18-2015, 08:01 AM
#216
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rcmiket has been making some excellent points on the drone issue but I do hope his alluding to the losing battle with the FAA is not an endorsement to lay down and let the FAA have their way with us, it may well not be a winnable battle but I for one, do not want to go down without a fight. [email protected], I am also on SSN and at 67, not near your age, but I can absorb the dues increase, do not want to and sincerely hope that cooler heads prevail at AMA HQ and only up it 5 or 10% rather than go for the whole enchilada in one shot, I think it would be counterproductive, but if they did, I could absorb in my RC budget easily, just one less $20 tower order in a year and all's well, if $20 is that big of a deal in an annual budget then the $48.00 (senior citizen discount) has got to be unbearable, so maybe you need to go fly in the desert. I don't mean to sound callous, but that might be your best option even without a dues increase.
Mike.
06-18-2015, 08:39 AM
#217
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While I honestly do believe were going to lose this one I also believe eventually we will need to cut our losses and move along. This isn't like any issue we have faced in the past for example the frequency fight back years ago. This one is one is huge and getting bigger daily.
Mike.
Mike.
The FPV/Quad buyers will only make enforcement of existing rules/laws stronger...the pressure of that growing market could actually lead to more places formally designated for flying models...for a lack of a better term a "Renaissance" of model aviation... We have, over the last few decades, been pushed back further and further into the weeds by the "old guard" style type flying sites...pretty much out of sight, out of mind... If not for the ARF and the comparatively cheap hobby stuff spurred by that advent, our hobby would have been all but decimated except for the very few diehards...Go take a look at the recent XFC and note the farther-son participation and the overall participation...which btw is a reflection of what has become the hobby for so many today... i.e. buy and fly. That wasn't so much the case back when AMA was about to belly up in the seventies.
The thing we need to quit doing isto take every opportunity to illuminate the bad aspects of model aviation in any of its forms...
Last edited by littlecrankshaf; 06-18-2015 at 08:45 AM.
06-18-2015, 11:45 AM
#218
Wow. I got into to this today to see what was new with the dues increase thing and found that some of us, perhaps a lot of us, need to gather round a few others of us, put our hands and their shoulders and help them extract their heads from their ..... I can't believe that with all the discusion there has been on this and other threads there are those that are still flailing away at the concept that we have a G-d given right to do whatever the heck we want and the evil FAA is trying to stop that.
Here's a reality check. Technology started providing us with ever increasing ways of BREAKING THE LAW. The AMA early on had a way of controlling that and shirked that responsiblity. Later they acquiesed to the economic intersted of their true sponsors, the hobby industry. At the same time while the FAA had control over a fledgling interest group (commerical drones) they could not possibly keep up with the explosive growith in the lawlessness of the RC drone industry. So they came up with a solution - start working with the commercial users who are more willing to follow reasonable rules by loosening those rules and providing short cuts for commerical flight operations. At the same time they accepted the AMA guidelines for hobby operations and instituted them as rules for all UAS operations, hobby and commercial.
What's saddest is this group can't even see that the FAA could have simply said "Screw you. DotGov won't give us money to implement this right and we have other places that need help too. The laws in effect right now mean we can prosecute anyone violating them and put and end to this nonsense."
Take some time and do some research. Go the the FAA web site and note the number of drone/airplane interactions that are realy going on. Look at what the FAA is doing to the approval process for comercial uses - not especially how they have granted blanket approval for certain uses who only need to file a "flight plan" for each flight just like the big guys do. No more waiting around for the OC lifegaurds when they needs to get a drone up to look for sharks, or a swimmer in trouble yet still have their fiying done safely with respect to other aircraft in the area. Yea, those news choppers do know where that lifeguard drone is operating.
Get your heads out. Maybe you'll msell the roses instead of that other stuff you've been smelling.
Here's a reality check. Technology started providing us with ever increasing ways of BREAKING THE LAW. The AMA early on had a way of controlling that and shirked that responsiblity. Later they acquiesed to the economic intersted of their true sponsors, the hobby industry. At the same time while the FAA had control over a fledgling interest group (commerical drones) they could not possibly keep up with the explosive growith in the lawlessness of the RC drone industry. So they came up with a solution - start working with the commercial users who are more willing to follow reasonable rules by loosening those rules and providing short cuts for commerical flight operations. At the same time they accepted the AMA guidelines for hobby operations and instituted them as rules for all UAS operations, hobby and commercial.
What's saddest is this group can't even see that the FAA could have simply said "Screw you. DotGov won't give us money to implement this right and we have other places that need help too. The laws in effect right now mean we can prosecute anyone violating them and put and end to this nonsense."
Take some time and do some research. Go the the FAA web site and note the number of drone/airplane interactions that are realy going on. Look at what the FAA is doing to the approval process for comercial uses - not especially how they have granted blanket approval for certain uses who only need to file a "flight plan" for each flight just like the big guys do. No more waiting around for the OC lifegaurds when they needs to get a drone up to look for sharks, or a swimmer in trouble yet still have their fiying done safely with respect to other aircraft in the area. Yea, those news choppers do know where that lifeguard drone is operating.
Get your heads out. Maybe you'll msell the roses instead of that other stuff you've been smelling.
06-18-2015, 02:18 PM
#219
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You may be right but I see other possibilities; As far as restrictions goes, as it pertains to model aviation, we have all but fully resigned ourselves to accepting FAA's control anyway...not much else likely to come down the pipe for a long time...
The FPV/Quad buyers will only make enforcement of existing rules/laws stronger...the pressure of that growing market could actually lead to more places formally designated for flying models...for a lack of a better term a "Renaissance" of model aviation... We have, over the last few decades, been pushed back further and further into the weeds by the "old guard" style type flying sites...pretty much out of sight, out of mind... If not for the ARF and the comparatively cheap hobby stuff spurred by that advent, our hobby would have been all but decimated except for the very few diehards...Go take a look at the recent XFC and note the farther-son participation and the overall participation...which btw is a reflection of what has become the hobby for so many today... i.e. buy and fly. That wasn't so much the case back when AMA was about to belly up in the seventies.
The thing we need to quit doing isto take every opportunity to illuminate the bad aspects of model aviation in any of its forms...
The FPV/Quad buyers will only make enforcement of existing rules/laws stronger...the pressure of that growing market could actually lead to more places formally designated for flying models...for a lack of a better term a "Renaissance" of model aviation... We have, over the last few decades, been pushed back further and further into the weeds by the "old guard" style type flying sites...pretty much out of sight, out of mind... If not for the ARF and the comparatively cheap hobby stuff spurred by that advent, our hobby would have been all but decimated except for the very few diehards...Go take a look at the recent XFC and note the farther-son participation and the overall participation...which btw is a reflection of what has become the hobby for so many today... i.e. buy and fly. That wasn't so much the case back when AMA was about to belly up in the seventies.
The thing we need to quit doing isto take every opportunity to illuminate the bad aspects of model aviation in any of its forms...
To this day not one (that I am aware of) have been visited by any of the buyers I've sold too with the exception of existing modelers. We even have a flyer we hand out with a link to our website with directions to our club field basically a invitation. On the flip side I would guess that over 50% of the fixed wing items we have sold those people actually show up for help and are interested in joining the AMA along with our club.. Were dealing with two completely different mindsets as I see it. I keep hearing that it's up to the local clubs to educate these people You know the old saying "you can lead a horse to water but.................
Mike
Last edited by rcmiket; 06-18-2015 at 02:21 PM.
06-18-2015, 04:42 PM
#220
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Wow. I got into to this today to see what was new with the dues increase thing and found that some of us, perhaps a lot of us, need to gather round a few others of us, put our hands and their shoulders and help them extract their heads from their ..... I can't believe that with all the discusion there has been on this and other threads there are those that are still flailing away at the concept that we have a G-d given right to do whatever the heck we want and the evil FAA is trying to stop that.
Here's a reality check. Technology started providing us with ever increasing ways of BREAKING THE LAW. The AMA early on had a way of controlling that and shirked that responsiblity. Later they acquiesed to the economic intersted of their true sponsors, the hobby industry. At the same time while the FAA had control over a fledgling interest group (commerical drones) they could not possibly keep up with the explosive growith in the lawlessness of the RC drone industry. So they came up with a solution - start working with the commercial users who are more willing to follow reasonable rules by loosening those rules and providing short cuts for commerical flight operations. At the same time they accepted the AMA guidelines for hobby operations and instituted them as rules for all UAS operations, hobby and commercial.
What's saddest is this group can't even see that the FAA could have simply said "Screw you. DotGov won't give us money to implement this right and we have other places that need help too. The laws in effect right now mean we can prosecute anyone violating them and put and end to this nonsense."
Take some time and do some research. Go the the FAA web site and note the number of drone/airplane interactions that are realy going on. Look at what the FAA is doing to the approval process for comercial uses - not especially how they have granted blanket approval for certain uses who only need to file a "flight plan" for each flight just like the big guys do. No more waiting around for the OC lifegaurds when they needs to get a drone up to look for sharks, or a swimmer in trouble yet still have their fiying done safely with respect to other aircraft in the area. Yea, those news choppers do know where that lifeguard drone is operating.
Get your heads out. Maybe you'll msell the roses instead of that other stuff you've been smelling.
Here's a reality check. Technology started providing us with ever increasing ways of BREAKING THE LAW. The AMA early on had a way of controlling that and shirked that responsiblity. Later they acquiesed to the economic intersted of their true sponsors, the hobby industry. At the same time while the FAA had control over a fledgling interest group (commerical drones) they could not possibly keep up with the explosive growith in the lawlessness of the RC drone industry. So they came up with a solution - start working with the commercial users who are more willing to follow reasonable rules by loosening those rules and providing short cuts for commerical flight operations. At the same time they accepted the AMA guidelines for hobby operations and instituted them as rules for all UAS operations, hobby and commercial.
What's saddest is this group can't even see that the FAA could have simply said "Screw you. DotGov won't give us money to implement this right and we have other places that need help too. The laws in effect right now mean we can prosecute anyone violating them and put and end to this nonsense."
Take some time and do some research. Go the the FAA web site and note the number of drone/airplane interactions that are realy going on. Look at what the FAA is doing to the approval process for comercial uses - not especially how they have granted blanket approval for certain uses who only need to file a "flight plan" for each flight just like the big guys do. No more waiting around for the OC lifegaurds when they needs to get a drone up to look for sharks, or a swimmer in trouble yet still have their fiying done safely with respect to other aircraft in the area. Yea, those news choppers do know where that lifeguard drone is operating.
Get your heads out. Maybe you'll msell the roses instead of that other stuff you've been smelling.
"I have a right to fly" said someone earlier.
It's easier to forecast doom and gloom and complain (about anything govt or AMA related) rather than attempt to look at ANYTHING positive that has happened, or will continue to happen.
06-18-2015, 04:59 PM
#221
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Just how much do you think the AMA will spend fighting the "drone" problem? This is not about providing the membership with a better product. This increase is nothing but fund generator to fuel a losing battle with the feds. As I have posted in the past most "drones" are sold to people who have no intention of joining the AMA or even care about regulations that are now in place. Now Sam's Club who have been selling the cheaper DJI online now plan on a full line in their stores. Gee what could possibility go wrong there and just how can all the money spent fix it? You can not educate or regulate people that just don"t care.
We the AMA members are funding a losing battle. Before you think I just hate "drones" I use them along with sell them here in the LHS. I see first hand everyday who's buying them and I can tell you that 99.9% of our sales go too people who will more than likely be part of the problem. We try and educate them but it's falling on deaf ears. That's the cold hard reality of the situation.
Mike
We the AMA members are funding a losing battle. Before you think I just hate "drones" I use them along with sell them here in the LHS. I see first hand everyday who's buying them and I can tell you that 99.9% of our sales go too people who will more than likely be part of the problem. We try and educate them but it's falling on deaf ears. That's the cold hard reality of the situation.
Mike
That's a easy one it's because anyone and I mean ANYONE can fly one ( I mean operate). You don't have to have any skill to fly one of these. Everyone wants the "hot item" . They think they can do the impossible and they try and do it.
Put the same person on a airplane and watch what happens.
Mike
Put the same person on a airplane and watch what happens.
Mike
While I honestly do believe were going to lose this one I also believe eventually we will need to cut our losses and move along. This isn't like any issue we have faced in the past for example the frequency fight back years ago. This one is one is huge and getting bigger daily.
Mike.
Mike.
So what have we lost? How does walking away from this (or never having been involved at all) benefit anyone at this point?
06-18-2015, 05:46 PM
#222
Sure , at first blush , $17 a year really looks like small change . But when coupled with all the other increases folks on a fixed income face year after year , the net effect of the price of everything going up is that for some , a "straw that broke the camel's back" situation is reached and it's always the non essential spending (and yes , RC toys are pretty non essential in the grand scheme of rent/mortgage , house/car insurance , utilities , and food , not to mention taxes and health ins.) that gets curtailed first . I hope oneaew keeps on flying , club or not , because at the end of the day the hobby itself is more important than any club association !
06-18-2015, 05:55 PM
#223
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I don't question your opinion on how you feel about the AMA etc, I just wonder where you come up with absolute statements like the ones bolded above. You may speak for your personal experiences, but I don't think you've shown any of that to be fact. Do you really think that every penny of a dues increase is going to "fight a losing battle with the feds"? I applaud your efforts at helping new buyers make good safe decisions, but I think you might shortchange yourself on the effect it's having. And again, I don't think that's the case with every purchaser of a good quality multi-rotor. I'm involved with two hobby shops that routinely refer people to clubs and they do show up to learn.
Gotta disagree, not everyone can just open a box and fly one of these. They do take some skill, regardless of gyros etc. Yes, someone might be able to get it into the air, getting in back in one piece is something completely different. The smaller ones are much harder to operate, and those are the ones that are selling all over the place. You know most of those are going to be trashed within days of flying and that will be it.
What exactly are we going to "lose". What exact "losses" have we sustained to date? Honestly, I don't get what you are saying. What is the quantifiable loss you can show? Money has been spent, the AMA is far more recognizable as the subject matter expert on this issue in terms of partnership with the FAA...and inroads have been made to some sensible operating parameters.
So what have we lost? How does walking away from this (or never having been involved at all) benefit anyone at this point?
Gotta disagree, not everyone can just open a box and fly one of these. They do take some skill, regardless of gyros etc. Yes, someone might be able to get it into the air, getting in back in one piece is something completely different. The smaller ones are much harder to operate, and those are the ones that are selling all over the place. You know most of those are going to be trashed within days of flying and that will be it.
What exactly are we going to "lose". What exact "losses" have we sustained to date? Honestly, I don't get what you are saying. What is the quantifiable loss you can show? Money has been spent, the AMA is far more recognizable as the subject matter expert on this issue in terms of partnership with the FAA...and inroads have been made to some sensible operating parameters.
So what have we lost? How does walking away from this (or never having been involved at all) benefit anyone at this point?
I'm posting my first hand experiences dealing with this on a daily basis. . How about you you got any you want to share?
You don't believe that anyone care operate on of these. Really?
I believe this is a losing battle that we cannot win based on my experiences nothing more and believe that sooner or later we will have to cut our losses and abandon the fight.
I have no reason to believe the general public will wake up tomorrow and see the light.
I also realize that were dealing with the government who really could care less about guys flying toy airplanes, Golfers get more respect than we do just look at the number of courses out there.
As to what you believe I have no clue.
One more thing " so what have we lost" as I see it over a million so far and counting. Do you believe in the blank check approach to this? If so why not just whip out your checkbook and make a donation to the "cause".
Mike
Last edited by rcmiket; 06-19-2015 at 03:13 AM.
06-18-2015, 06:30 PM
#224
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init4fun, my point exactly, if he is that poised on the precipice then he might be better served flying in the desert and my hat off to him, hope he flies for another 20 years.
rcmiket, I don't think it is a totally losing cause, will be if we give up to save a buck. I do believe that the FAA is on a power grab and the tool for that grab is Drones and the goal is total airspace control, how much they get depends in large part on the AMA. Personally, I do not want them to get anymore control than they already have, but they will get some of what they want, no doubt.
rcmiket, I don't think it is a totally losing cause, will be if we give up to save a buck. I do believe that the FAA is on a power grab and the tool for that grab is Drones and the goal is total airspace control, how much they get depends in large part on the AMA. Personally, I do not want them to get anymore control than they already have, but they will get some of what they want, no doubt.
06-19-2015, 02:09 AM
#225
My Feedback: (33)
cost of cigs per pack, per day, per week, per month, per year
cost of e-cigs, beer, wine, whiskey, ice cream, starbucks
it is: mean
their, there, they're
plead, plead
see, saw, seen
to, too, two
its, it's
night, nite
light, lite
twinkle, tinkle
anyway
anyways, NOT
then, than
barry hussein barrack
an engine makes noise, a motor does not
wet fuel is for an engine, not a motor
were, we're
an, not a
a, not an
be, bee
quiet, quite
just say'n…………...
cost of e-cigs, beer, wine, whiskey, ice cream, starbucks
it is: mean
their, there, they're
plead, plead
see, saw, seen
to, too, two
its, it's
night, nite
light, lite
twinkle, tinkle
anyway
anyways, NOT
then, than
barry hussein barrack
an engine makes noise, a motor does not
wet fuel is for an engine, not a motor
were, we're
an, not a
a, not an
be, bee
quiet, quite
just say'n…………...
Last edited by teebox11; 06-19-2015 at 02:58 AM.