Dues increase coming? 1 million spent on government relations.....
06-23-2015, 04:27 AM
#251
For the record, I "did" for 23 years. Furthermore, I was the one accountable for everything that happened at a $3B facility with over 14,000 people living and working there - including being accountable for operations at an airport that had over 250,000 takeoffs and landings annually. Now I'm paid by companies that want me to teach them how to implement a safety management system and safety culture like the ones I built and managed for those many years. I guess I'm "doing" yet again, for my client's leading safety metrics show improvements of 70% to 98% - depending upon the metric.
06-23-2015, 04:30 AM
#252
06-23-2015, 06:19 AM
#253
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06-23-2015, 06:23 AM
#254
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As I have posted in the past this isn't about what the AMA has lobbied for in the past. This is about public safety along with privacy.
Mike.
Last edited by rcmiket; 06-23-2015 at 06:30 AM.
06-23-2015, 06:37 AM
#255
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As I see it were in a losing battle here. Public opinion and the Feds are not on our side here. Although I don't really think they understand what we do. The problem is they don't care. Were just people playing with toys to them that are causing problems. They could care less that most aren't modellers they just see us a possible problem and danger to public safety. I don't think our pockets are deep enough to "buy" the right influence in DC we would need.That's the reality of the situation from where I sit.
As I have posted in the past this isn't about what the AMA has lobbied for in the past. This is about public safety along with privacy.
Mike.
As I have posted in the past this isn't about what the AMA has lobbied for in the past. This is about public safety along with privacy.
Mike.
06-23-2015, 06:41 AM
#256
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Your position as I see it is the AMA is wasting our dues money in a losing battle, please correct me if I'm wrong. I don't want to see a dues increase either, but costs do go up and technology presents new challenges, that is just the way this world of ours is and it may very well be a losing battle but at least the AMA is not laying down letting the MAN walk all over us, there is something to be salvaged out of this. I'm gonna go fly while the FAA will still let me, later.
Mike
06-23-2015, 08:07 AM
#257
So, I spend $75 to be a member of AMA, and on top of that I spend $100 to be a member of a club. I flew club field sized planes precisely zero times last year. I fly small aircraft near my home. My AMA membership is paying for insurance that only kicks in AFTER my own homeowner's, a magazine, a flying field I'll probably never visit, a museum I'll likely never visit, staff, and advocacy. That advocacy led to section 336. Now the AMA is also using my dues to sue the FAA over their interpretation of the language we asked for in the law. What about the old saying "Be careful what you wish for, as you just may get it." Seems to me that if our advocacy was so awesome, we'd not have been surprised by the FAA interpretation. Perhaps AMA didn't think out that part of it?
So I'm asking, what is the tangible benefit I get from the $175 a year? What would be different in what and where I fly if I just chose to allow my membership to lapse? So far as I can tell, I'd lose a magazine and that's about it.
So I'm asking, what is the tangible benefit I get from the $175 a year? What would be different in what and where I fly if I just chose to allow my membership to lapse? So far as I can tell, I'd lose a magazine and that's about it.
Last edited by franklin_m; 06-23-2015 at 08:09 AM.
06-23-2015, 09:11 AM
#258
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So, I spend $75 to be a member of AMA, and on top of that I spend $100 to be a member of a club. I flew club field sized planes precisely zero times last year. I fly small aircraft near my home. My AMA membership is paying for insurance that only kicks in AFTER my own homeowner's, a magazine, a flying field I'll probably never visit, a museum I'll likely never visit, staff, and advocacy. That advocacy led to section 336. Now the AMA is also using my dues to sue the FAA over their interpretation of the language we asked for in the law. What about the old saying "Be careful what you wish for, as you just may get it." Seems to me that if our advocacy was so awesome, we'd not have been surprised by the FAA interpretation. Perhaps AMA didn't think out that part of it?
So I'm asking, what is the tangible benefit I get from the $175 a year? What would be different in what and where I fly if I just chose to allow my membership to lapse? So far as I can tell, I'd lose a magazine and that's about it.
So I'm asking, what is the tangible benefit I get from the $175 a year? What would be different in what and where I fly if I just chose to allow my membership to lapse? So far as I can tell, I'd lose a magazine and that's about it.
06-23-2015, 10:24 AM
#259
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Any new news on this?
Doing some math.
$17/$58 = 29.3% increase - this would be for the average member - not youth, park flyer, senior, other membership types.
Dues for 2013 was about $6,782,000
Total Revenues was about $9,603,000
I looked on the AMA site and did not find the Annual Report or a Budget.
I got the 990 from Guidestar.
Can someone point out where we can get these reports?
The Revenue page from AMA's 2013 Form 990 is below...
Best.
Poughkeepsie Pete
Doing some math.
$17/$58 = 29.3% increase - this would be for the average member - not youth, park flyer, senior, other membership types.
Dues for 2013 was about $6,782,000
Total Revenues was about $9,603,000
I looked on the AMA site and did not find the Annual Report or a Budget.
I got the 990 from Guidestar.
Can someone point out where we can get these reports?
The Revenue page from AMA's 2013 Form 990 is below...
Best.
Poughkeepsie Pete
06-23-2015, 10:32 AM
#260
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So, I spend $75 to be a member of AMA, and on top of that I spend $100 to be a member of a club. I flew club field sized planes precisely zero times last year. I fly small aircraft near my home. My AMA membership is paying for insurance that only kicks in AFTER my own homeowner's, a magazine, a flying field I'll probably never visit, a museum I'll likely never visit, staff, and advocacy. That advocacy led to section 336. Now the AMA is also using my dues to sue the FAA over their interpretation of the language we asked for in the law. What about the old saying "Be careful what you wish for, as you just may get it." Seems to me that if our advocacy was so awesome, we'd not have been surprised by the FAA interpretation. Perhaps AMA didn't think out that part of it?
So I'm asking, what is the tangible benefit I get from the $175 a year? What would be different in what and where I fly if I just chose to allow my membership to lapse? So far as I can tell, I'd lose a magazine and that's about it.
So I'm asking, what is the tangible benefit I get from the $175 a year? What would be different in what and where I fly if I just chose to allow my membership to lapse? So far as I can tell, I'd lose a magazine and that's about it.
Plenty of people fly without the AMA membership. I know many in CT who don't belong to the AMA or a club and still find plenty of places to fly, I bet there's even more in areas less dense in population. Many don't want to deal with club rules and politics, and to some degree the cost as well. Having a membership with AMA nor a club is a prerequisite for having fun in this hobby.
06-23-2015, 10:56 AM
#262
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I'm of the personal opinion they (AMA) had no choice, not realistically. A no win situation no matter what they did/do. I get the complaints about dues increasing, I'm not thrilled with it either. It seems though that folks are immediately linking the increased dues to advocacy efforts, and I've yet to see that be the case. I think some more transparancy on the issue was and is warranted though. Rather than looking at EC meeting notes or balance sheets for the information, I would like to see a clearly laid out plan for what lies ahead. How much is being spent on all issues that are going to cost money, and what is the goal for each. If we're spending x amount on something, how is that money allocated and what do we hope to see as a tangible benefit or outcome. That message should come from on high, and filter down to regional VPs, and right on down the chain. Not sure that would quell all of the concerns, but might go a long way is laying out their plans.
06-23-2015, 11:36 AM
#263
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Yes, I suppose that is a possibility. I'm not sure what the solution is/was to this issue though. Could anyone have predicted 5 years ago exactly what is going on now? Would it have been better at that time to have immediately washed our hands of anything rotary craft related? Doom and gloom was predicated about the proposed rules, and when they came out, was it really all that bad? Has anyone been drastically and dramatically effected as of yet? Any clubs closed, significant hardships felt? Is it just easier to continue to predict horrible things happening in the future? Is the answer to walk away now? How many new complaints would flood in about spending all that money and then walking away?
I'm of the personal opinion they (AMA) had no choice, not realistically. A no win situation no matter what they did/do. I get the complaints about dues increasing, I'm not thrilled with it either. It seems though that folks are immediately linking the increased dues to advocacy efforts, and I've yet to see that be the case. I think some more transparancy on the issue was and is warranted though. Rather than looking at EC meeting notes or balance sheets for the information, I would like to see a clearly laid out plan for what lies ahead. How much is being spent on all issues that are going to cost money, and what is the goal for each. If we're spending x amount on something, how is that money allocated and what do we hope to see as a tangible benefit or outcome. That message should come from on high, and filter down to regional VPs, and right on down the chain. Not sure that would quell all of the concerns, but might go a long way is laying out their plans.
I'm of the personal opinion they (AMA) had no choice, not realistically. A no win situation no matter what they did/do. I get the complaints about dues increasing, I'm not thrilled with it either. It seems though that folks are immediately linking the increased dues to advocacy efforts, and I've yet to see that be the case. I think some more transparancy on the issue was and is warranted though. Rather than looking at EC meeting notes or balance sheets for the information, I would like to see a clearly laid out plan for what lies ahead. How much is being spent on all issues that are going to cost money, and what is the goal for each. If we're spending x amount on something, how is that money allocated and what do we hope to see as a tangible benefit or outcome. That message should come from on high, and filter down to regional VPs, and right on down the chain. Not sure that would quell all of the concerns, but might go a long way is laying out their plans.
Let's first start with the 2014 Annual Report to see how the membership dues is composed - how many full members versus park flyers, etc.
We have to start with the facts.
The claim there are 175,000 members doesn't add up unless there was a huge inrush since 2013 when the 990 report is from.
From the numbers, I think it is much less than that, as much as 25% less.
Too bad the FAA acted up the way it did and caused we, the citizens, to have to mount a $1MM defensive campaign.
Cheers,
Poughkeepsie Pete
06-23-2015, 12:36 PM
#264
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Yes, I suppose that is a possibility. I'm not sure what the solution is/was to this issue though. Could anyone have predicted 5 years ago exactly what is going on now? Would it have been better at that time to have immediately washed our hands of anything rotary craft related? Doom and gloom was predicated about the proposed rules, and when they came out, was it really all that bad? Has anyone been drastically and dramatically effected as of yet? Any clubs closed, significant hardships felt? Is it just easier to continue to predict horrible things happening in the future? Is the answer to walk away now? How many new complaints would flood in about spending all that money and then walking away?
I'm of the personal opinion they (AMA) had no choice, not realistically. A no win situation no matter what they did/do. I get the complaints about dues increasing, I'm not thrilled with it either. It seems though that folks are immediately linking the increased dues to advocacy efforts, and I've yet to see that be the case. I think some more transparancy on the issue was and is warranted though. Rather than looking at EC meeting notes or balance sheets for the information, I would like to see a clearly laid out plan for what lies ahead. How much is being spent on all issues that are going to cost money, and what is the goal for each. If we're spending x amount on something, how is that money allocated and what do we hope to see as a tangible benefit or outcome. That message should come from on high, and filter down to regional VPs, and right on down the chain. Not sure that would quell all of the concerns, but might go a long way is laying out their plans.
I'm of the personal opinion they (AMA) had no choice, not realistically. A no win situation no matter what they did/do. I get the complaints about dues increasing, I'm not thrilled with it either. It seems though that folks are immediately linking the increased dues to advocacy efforts, and I've yet to see that be the case. I think some more transparancy on the issue was and is warranted though. Rather than looking at EC meeting notes or balance sheets for the information, I would like to see a clearly laid out plan for what lies ahead. How much is being spent on all issues that are going to cost money, and what is the goal for each. If we're spending x amount on something, how is that money allocated and what do we hope to see as a tangible benefit or outcome. That message should come from on high, and filter down to regional VPs, and right on down the chain. Not sure that would quell all of the concerns, but might go a long way is laying out their plans.
Mike
06-23-2015, 12:40 PM
#265
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I am assuming you are referring to the beginning of the Obama administration, so I might ask where you have been for the last 50 years if that be the case. Our eroded rights has nothing to do with who is in office but more inline with what we are willing to give up. Seems to me that if it costs a buck it may not be worth fighting for in your humble opinion. I don't want to get into anything with you but the bottom line for me is that the AMA is trying to protect what we have whether it be a lost cause or not and I have respect for that, I have a hard time when someone just wants to give up because in his/her opinion it is "a lost cause". You are way to negative for me.
06-23-2015, 12:50 PM
#266
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I am assuming you are referring to the beginning of the Obama administration, so I might ask where you have been for the last 50 years if that be the case. Our eroded rights has nothing to do with who is in office but more inline with what we are willing to give up. Seems to me that if it costs a buck it may not be worth fighting for in your humble opinion. I don't want to get into anything with you but the bottom line for me is that the AMA is trying to protect what we have whether it be a lost cause or not and I have respect for that, I have a hard time when someone just wants to give up because in his/her opinion it is "a lost cause". You are way to negative for me.
I'm not being negative just realistic.
Mike
06-23-2015, 01:42 PM
#267
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You are 100% correct, and the best I can say without going into great detail is oh yes, I'm well aware of what goes on in politics...it's the same at a local/state level too. Sadly. With this issue we are absolutely a small part of the game, the big industrial complex (commercial and military) are the real players here. We're along for the ride I think, but it's a ride we have to take as we are the only ones speaking on behalf of ALL modelers and hobbyists. If not us...who?
06-23-2015, 01:52 PM
#268
06-23-2015, 01:53 PM
#269
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I agree about transparency - increasing it will only yield benefits.
Let's first start with the 2014 Annual Report to see how the membership dues is composed - how many full members versus park flyers, etc.
We have to start with the facts.
The claim there are 175,000 members doesn't add up unless there was a huge inrush since 2013 when the 990 report is from.
From the numbers, I think it is much less than that, as much as 25% less.
Too bad the FAA acted up the way it did and caused we, the citizens, to have to mount a $1MM defensive campaign.
Cheers,
Poughkeepsie Pete
Let's first start with the 2014 Annual Report to see how the membership dues is composed - how many full members versus park flyers, etc.
We have to start with the facts.
The claim there are 175,000 members doesn't add up unless there was a huge inrush since 2013 when the 990 report is from.
From the numbers, I think it is much less than that, as much as 25% less.
Too bad the FAA acted up the way it did and caused we, the citizens, to have to mount a $1MM defensive campaign.
Cheers,
Poughkeepsie Pete
One thing I would add though, I don't think this came about all of a sudden because of the FAA arbitrarily deciding to flex their muscle one day. I think it's far to easy to lay this at the feet of a political bureaucracy, because who doesn't think they are the root of a lot of ineffective and burdensome functions? They were bound to get involved at some point, just as I think the AMA was. Rapidly advancing technology, lower unit costs, and unfortunately reckless and irresponsible behaviors on the part of a few brought this all to a head. Were there sufficient rules/regs/guidelines/laws on the books 5 years ago that would address what's going on now? Who else would be in charge of working through those issues other than the FAA? Does getting any agency involved slow a process down...of course! Is everything they do going to please everyone involved, of course not. I will say though they have moved much faster in the last 6 months to open the skies to commercial use and even some other good uses (the search and rescue folks in TX).
06-23-2015, 02:18 PM
#270
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everything up to 2013 is posted, but it doesn't say when the last report showing was actually uploaded. I didn't see any budgets posted for any years though. I did however see 2013 and 2014 Annual Reports - Financial Insurance Summary. Looks like there was a significant decrease in property damage and bodily injury claims both reported and filed from 20-13 to 2014 (great news)...but a slight increase in Fire and theft claims in the same period. Medical claims reported/files are mostly flat.
06-23-2015, 03:35 PM
#271
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You are 100% correct, and the best I can say without going into great detail is oh yes, I'm well aware of what goes on in politics...it's the same at a local/state level too. Sadly. With this issue we are absolutely a small part of the game, the big industrial complex (commercial and military) are the real players here. We're along for the ride I think, but it's a ride we have to take as we are the only ones speaking on behalf of ALL modelers and hobbyists. If not us...who?
06-23-2015, 03:38 PM
#272
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I do think it is worthy and I will do what I can, not being positive just being worthy!
06-23-2015, 04:04 PM
#274
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So what's your plan?
Mike.
Last edited by rcmiket; 06-23-2015 at 04:07 PM.
06-23-2015, 04:09 PM
#275
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I'll buy a 2 year membership at the old price in July so they won't get the additional funds from me right now. Being a club officer I have no choice but to renew. I have in the past and will continue to make my feelings known to the AMA on this..After my membership ex[ires down the road I'll reevaluate this whole mess.
Mike.
Mike.