init4fun

Yes , this is true , but no need to "rub his nose in it" . The guy has concerns with what the AMA is doing with the money . Fair enough . I don't think he's slamming the whole organization , just the AMA's handling of the FAA dealings . I think you'll find there are others who share his concern .

I renew every two years also , yea , I should have gotten that life membership years ago but there were always other things vying for the limited dollars of my youth . If they had a five year signup , that would likely just about do it for me , I don't see me flying much into the 2020s , that's for sure .

david surick

good helps all of us like dmv

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

tru dat!

Duncman

Roger that.

Duncman

I'm gong to continue to pay my dues, work cub events, build and fly and support the AMA as best I can, I'm kind of old fashioned, I still think they have the best interest of the hobby in mind.

franklin_m

Thanks...I'm anything but a "AMAish drone type" in my beliefs. I think AMA made a huge mistake by embracing the quad crowd in what I believe was a failed effort to increase revenue / membership. Furthermore, they practically broke an arm patting themselves on the back for getting the language in section 336, then immediately had to turn around and sue FAA over interpretation. Not only is this evidence that the money spent getting the language wasn't as well thought out as we were led to believe, the unintended consequence thing, but now it's costing us even more to fight in court. Furthermore, suing the FAA doesn't make them inclined to now play nice.

Only time will tell, but with the feds now being cautious with AMA (because they're suing them), local laws and ordinances popping up faster than they can be countered, and more and more irresponsible behavior making the web, I don't have a good feel about the direction this is heading. Had AMA not embraced the quad crowd in what I believe was an attempt to increase revenue, the organization would have at least been able to draw a sharp distinction between hobby fliers (members) and those who are not. Subtle distinctions are lost on the media and the public, clear bright lines are necessary, and AMA chose to give that up....IMO.

rcmiket

Well said. I 100% agree with what your saying. Why many just can't see that is beyond me. The AMA has done a good job in the past with frequencies and so on but this issue is something they just can't handle.

Mike

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

I think what you guys are saying is that AMA's focus should be more in tune with members i.e. their desires and interests.

The quad FPV thing is generally OK within the membership but not a segment that should be pursued specifically as that's not the prime directive of AMA, just incidentally part of what we do as a membership organization. But there is where AMA has a dilemma...they can either be purely a membership based organization, responsive to the desires of the membership or reach for the brass ring and try to be a CBO for all recreational sUAS. I think that the CBO distinction was/is very attractive to those within AMA that would love to see AMA some type of authority that would induce growth...and acquiring that status has overshadowed the original intent of AMA. That's how I see it, maybe others as well.

rcmiket

99.9% of the quads/FPV/Drones will be sold to people who don't care or even know about the AMA or FAA. That's the problem. They will continue to violate all the rules including endangering lives. How can we possibly win this?
I hate to be so negative about this but I have no reason to believe that all of a sudden these people will wake up and realize what they are doing is a problem for all of us. You can't fix or regulate stupid.

Mike

jester_s1

When you figure in inflation, the dues aren't going up at all. The numbers are simply changing to keep up with the dropping value of the dollar. Our dues have actually been going down every year because of that. How many of us get a cost of living wage increase every year? It doesn't improve your lifestyle significantly, but it does let you keep up with the rising cost of things you need. The AMA needs one too.

franklin_m

Excellent point. What I don't get is why AMA would think that quad fliers, who can fly just about anywhere for nothing, would suddenly jump at the opportunity to give AMA money to do what they have already been doing? Really? I think some within AMA were seduced by dollar signs and the possibility they could semi-compel membership increases via becoming a CBO. And they've spent $1M so far, who knows how much more suing the FAA who has lawyers by the truckload, fighting perceptions created by non-members flying quads, and - largely in response to quads - state and local agencies pushing laws and ordinances faster than AMA can counter them.

Just imagine how differently things might be going if AMA was able to draw a clear distinction between quad fliers and everyone else flying for a hobby?

franklin_m

I would support AMA increases if they stopped spending on Muncie, the museum, and staff in Muncie and spent more money on acquiring flying sites around the country and/or offsetting club dues.

jester_s1

I very much supported the AMA's taking up the cause of multirotor aircraft. Like it or not, those vehicles are the next evolution of our hobby. To push them away would have been to lose the next generation of RC hobbyists. People will pay dues for advocacy when they perceive a genuine threat. Just look at the NRA. Millions of shooters pay dues there solely for the NRA's lobbying efforts. I'm sure 50 years ago older aeromodelers were complaining about the newfangled RC pilots who buzzed all over the place instead of appreciating the precision of good control line flying. Had the AMA made the wrong decision about that small minority of techie nerds the hobby would have never grown with the organization and quality that it has. We've always been a culture that embraces the new. It saddens me to see that many of us don't anymore.

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

In addition to advocacy mentioned above. What happens when all those individual quad fliers wants to have a gathering and fly together? Suddenly they need a flying field large enough to host such an event. Now the property owner of that field wants liability coverage. Now, where's the easiest place to get insurance for such an R/C event?

Also, in the big scheme of things, I don't consider AMA dues to be a significant expense.

rcmiket

[QUOTE=Ace Dude;12060888. What happens when all those individual quad fliers wants to have a gathering and fly together? Suddenly they need a flying field large enough to host such an event. Now the property owner of that field wants liability coverage. Now, where's the easiest place to get insurance for such an R/C event? [/QUOTE]

While that would be great I don't see it happening. As I have previously posted, I have yet to see any of the quads/drones/FPV equipment sold (unless sold to a current modeler) here at the shop ever show up at the local flying field. Even though we hand them a invite they never show. They want to play with their toys when and where they want and don't want to bother with the added expense or travel to play. These people are not traditional modelers as we know it.We all need to wake up and realize just what were dealing with here.
I wish they would join the AMA and the local clubs that would be great for the hobby.

Mike

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

“As long as you think the problem is out there, that very thought is the problem” - SRC

rcmiket

I don't think there is a problem out there I KNOW there's one, You seem to think I'm making this stuff up. I see it everyday. We have even been visited by the Feds they dropped off a list of questions that if people ask were supposed to notify them, No joke. Most of the questions are the normal customer inquires. So if we followed their "request" they would have to open a office at the shop to deal with the reports.
The problem is most here seem to think there is no problem and the AMA can handle it. The worst part is the "problem" is all over utube along with the national media. For every one positive story there's 50 bad. That kinda press makes us all look like idiots who are out of control. Even here on RCU along with RCG there's a group that seem to think they have the "right" to fly and do as they please and resent the fact that they are being looked at by the Feds.

Please someone here help me understand what makes any of you think that these people will jump on joining the AMA or even obey the laws already in place and respect everyone's safety and privacy. I'm not trying to be a smart ***** or hate the technology I'm just trying to understand your position and why you believe things will work out.

Mike

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

Therein lies the problem.

It has nothing to do with the AMA. The "traditional modelers" modelers are the problem. Handing someone an invite and genuinely welcoming and encouraging them to participate in club activities are two entirely different things. Yes, I've been to club fields where I walked around for an hour and not one person said hello. I've been to club meetings where folks spend hours complaining about little trivial things which somehow never end after one meeting neither. The way some "traditional modelers" act at meetings is an embarrassment.

Perhaps this is the wake-up call 99.9% of the "traditional modelers" don't get. New modelers don't need your club or field. Now, if you need new modelers to keep the club and flying site going then you'll need to create a warm and inviting environment. Nearly all the clubs I know in my area are suffering from declining membership and declining participation within the existing membership.

What 99.9% of the "traditional modelers" don't get is that running a club is no different than running a small business. To run a successful club in today's environment you need to actively pursue and recruit new members, not just wait for them to show up.

rcmiket

1-It has everything to do with the AMA as they are spending our money 1 million and counting on this issue.
2- Since these people will never visit a field, become AMA members or club members being warm and fuzzy is irrelevant. On a side note we The Horizon City R/C Flyers welcome newcomers and help them any way we can
3- The purpose of a business is to make money. The purpose of a club is to serve it's members.


Please explain to me why you think they will show up and support the AMA and the local club. I'm very interested.

Mike

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

Case in point:

https://youtu.be/csbiVV0ah5o

rcmiket

1- I've made my feelings known to the AMA D-8 VP and serve as a club officer.

2- I work in the LHS and not one of these sold ( short of to exsisting modelers ) has joined the AMA or showed up at the local field. This is my first hand experience and one of the reasons I am so concerned about this.

3-No they are a Non -profit organization we for example are a 501 (c) 3

Your video link is great and I can assure you that everyone there is already a AMA member and already flying by the rules and not part of the problem we are discussing here..

Here ya go. Here's the problem

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbE6BKJ2drQ



Mike

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

My response above in red.

rcmiket

1- If I had the time to delicate I would consider it.

2-Just how many racing quads are sold vs a RTF quad? I can assure you it's astronomical. The average guy (who by the way is the problem) isn't looking for a racing quad. He wants turn key RTF right out of the box. They are the problem that will be very hard if not impossible to contain.

3- Really? Might want to fact check your statement. Granted our exemption in 2008. Feel free to check it out on the IRS website. Horizon City Radio Control Flyers. It's public information but I'm not going to post our EIN # here.

I never tossed all the muti rotor guys in the same group just the ones we'll never win over or will follow the rules.

I also agree that they will be problems in our hobby with idiots. Unfortunately the idiots are posting keep posting their antics online which just fuels the issue.

Mike

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

It's not that people think you are making this stuff up, perhaps it's just your broad brush generalizations that have no basis in fact that make people react to your comments. You said the following:

"99.9% of the quads/FPV/Drones will be sold to people who don't care or even know about the AMA or FAA. That's the problem. They will continue to violate all the rules including endangering lives"

or

"Please someone here help me understand what makes any of you think that these people will jump on joining the AMA or even obey the laws already in place and respect everyone's safety and privacy"

or

"These people are not traditional modelers as we know it"

You've distilled 99.9% of a class of people to people who won't join the AMA, don't know about the FAA, won't join a club, and who will continue to violate the laws and endanger people. Oh, and then you label them as "non traditional modelers", as if there is a definition of that.

You don't see how people might not agree with that? Or that you might come off as overly negative, inflexible, and perhaps anti technology? You seem to base your opinion on your immediate experience in your area, and extrapolate that across the country, and then the hobby. I know of someone who purchased a quad, and joined AMA and a club (ours), and asked if we would do FPV racing at our club. I'm not going to use that one instance to say that this is a trend. And now in this thread you note that

"the problem is that most here seem to think there is no problem and the AMA can handle it"

Another generalization that doesn't appear correct, based on the actual comments in this and other threads. Of course there is a problem, and yes the AMA is trying to deal with it. That some don't want to immediately slam the door shut on multi rotors and have the AMA cease advocacy doesn't mean they don't see a problem. As of now, there has been no radical or detrimental hardship on the hobby. Yes, money is being spent from our dues in furtherance of working through the issues. That die is cast, as is the involvement of multi rotors in this hobby, nothing we say will change that. Perhaps it's naive, I'm optimistic about how things will work out. As I mentioned earlier, it would be nice to see how much money is allocated to this, and what the goals are, and how we will be able to measure success.

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

See above.