Dues increase coming? 1 million spent on government relations.....
06-25-2015, 06:38 AM
#301
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Instead of raising the dues, I think each club take up a donation once a year and give it to the AMA . This way if a person cant afford the increase, he or she can donate what they can. AMA could benefit better this way rather than loosing membership!
06-25-2015, 06:48 AM
#302
Moderator
"Traditional modelers" need to remember that what they do was once disorganized and every bit as renegade as what the multirotor crowd does now. Back in the '40's, the typical free flight contest was held at whatever expanse of treeless land that a group could find. Most weren't sanctioned or regulated; they just did them however they wanted to. Control line flying was done much the same way, on any patch of flat grass located where neighbors wouldn't complain much. By today's standards, it was quite disorganized. The culture of aeromodelers has grown complacent and traditionalist, quite the opposite of its origins. With the current mentality, we never would have developed proportional R/C, started using Monokote or buying ARFs, developed foam or composite models, or accepted early helicopters into the hobby. Aeromodeling is by nature an innovative hobby. When we oppose innovation, we oppose what has made it good.
As for multirotors never contributing to the AMA or to the hobby as a whole, you have to remember that that branch of the hobby is still developing. As mentioned above, FPV racing is quickly gaining in popularity which requires a safe flying site and needs to have insurance. And as the multirotor hobby develops, I could see mission based contests developing which will have similar requirements along with obstacle course racing and aerobatics contests. We don't really know yet how this part of the hobby will look in the next 10 years, but I can say with certainty that if we reject it now we won't benefit from it later. Give it some time and see what happens. Just hovering one of these things over the local city park is going to get old real fast, so let's be the ones who can offer some new challenges to add excitement to it. If the local clubs embrace this new technology as the AMA has done, we will all benefit in the long run.
As for multirotors never contributing to the AMA or to the hobby as a whole, you have to remember that that branch of the hobby is still developing. As mentioned above, FPV racing is quickly gaining in popularity which requires a safe flying site and needs to have insurance. And as the multirotor hobby develops, I could see mission based contests developing which will have similar requirements along with obstacle course racing and aerobatics contests. We don't really know yet how this part of the hobby will look in the next 10 years, but I can say with certainty that if we reject it now we won't benefit from it later. Give it some time and see what happens. Just hovering one of these things over the local city park is going to get old real fast, so let's be the ones who can offer some new challenges to add excitement to it. If the local clubs embrace this new technology as the AMA has done, we will all benefit in the long run.
06-25-2015, 06:58 AM
#303
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While that would be great I don't see it happening. As I have previously posted, I have yet to see any of the quads/drones/FPV equipment sold (unless sold to a current modeler) here at the shop ever show up at the local flying field. Even though we hand them a invite they never show. They want to play with their toys when and where they want and don't want to bother with the added expense or travel to play. These people are not traditional modelers as we know it.We all need to wake up and realize just what were dealing with here.
I wish they would join the AMA and the local clubs that would be great for the hobby.
Mike
I wish they would join the AMA and the local clubs that would be great for the hobby.
Mike
06-25-2015, 07:39 AM
#304
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" I did before posting. No offense, but it's obvious many of your statements are in need of some fact checking."
No offense taken but did you actually look up our status with the IRS or just quote from the site? We are what we are a 501 (c) 3. We are one of many clubs that hold that status.
You choose to look at this wwhole thing with rose colored glasses. I hope your right and I am wrong but I'm not holding my breath.
Mike
No offense taken but did you actually look up our status with the IRS or just quote from the site? We are what we are a 501 (c) 3. We are one of many clubs that hold that status.
You choose to look at this wwhole thing with rose colored glasses. I hope your right and I am wrong but I'm not holding my breath.
Mike
06-25-2015, 07:51 AM
#305
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It's not that people think you are making this stuff up, perhaps it's just your broad brush generalizations that have no basis in fact that make people react to your comments. You said the following:
"99.9% of the quads/FPV/Drones will be sold to people who don't care or even know about the AMA or FAA. That's the problem. They will continue to violate all the rules including endangering lives"
or
"Please someone here help me understand what makes any of you think that these people will jump on joining the AMA or even obey the laws already in place and respect everyone's safety and privacy"
or
"These people are not traditional modelers as we know it"
You've distilled 99.9% of a class of people to people who won't join the AMA, don't know about the FAA, won't join a club, and who will continue to violate the laws and endanger people. Oh, and then you label them as "non traditional modelers", as if there is a definition of that.
You don't see how people might not agree with that? Or that you might come off as overly negative, inflexible, and perhaps anti technology? You seem to base your opinion on your immediate experience in your area, and extrapolate that across the country, and then the hobby. I know of someone who purchased a quad, and joined AMA and a club (ours), and asked if we would do FPV racing at our club. I'm not going to use that one instance to say that this is a trend. And now in this thread you note that
"the problem is that most here seem to think there is no problem and the AMA can handle it"
Another generalization that doesn't appear correct, based on the actual comments in this and other threads. Of course there is a problem, and yes the AMA is trying to deal with it. That some don't want to immediately slam the door shut on multi rotors and have the AMA cease advocacy doesn't mean they don't see a problem. As of now, there has been no radical or detrimental hardship on the hobby. Yes, money is being spent from our dues in furtherance of working through the issues. That die is cast, as is the involvement of multi rotors in this hobby, nothing we say will change that. Perhaps it's naive, I'm optimistic about how things will work out. As I mentioned earlier, it would be nice to see how much money is allocated to this, and what the goals are, and how we will be able to measure success.
"99.9% of the quads/FPV/Drones will be sold to people who don't care or even know about the AMA or FAA. That's the problem. They will continue to violate all the rules including endangering lives"
or
"Please someone here help me understand what makes any of you think that these people will jump on joining the AMA or even obey the laws already in place and respect everyone's safety and privacy"
or
"These people are not traditional modelers as we know it"
You've distilled 99.9% of a class of people to people who won't join the AMA, don't know about the FAA, won't join a club, and who will continue to violate the laws and endanger people. Oh, and then you label them as "non traditional modelers", as if there is a definition of that.
You don't see how people might not agree with that? Or that you might come off as overly negative, inflexible, and perhaps anti technology? You seem to base your opinion on your immediate experience in your area, and extrapolate that across the country, and then the hobby. I know of someone who purchased a quad, and joined AMA and a club (ours), and asked if we would do FPV racing at our club. I'm not going to use that one instance to say that this is a trend. And now in this thread you note that
"the problem is that most here seem to think there is no problem and the AMA can handle it"
Another generalization that doesn't appear correct, based on the actual comments in this and other threads. Of course there is a problem, and yes the AMA is trying to deal with it. That some don't want to immediately slam the door shut on multi rotors and have the AMA cease advocacy doesn't mean they don't see a problem. As of now, there has been no radical or detrimental hardship on the hobby. Yes, money is being spent from our dues in furtherance of working through the issues. That die is cast, as is the involvement of multi rotors in this hobby, nothing we say will change that. Perhaps it's naive, I'm optimistic about how things will work out. As I mentioned earlier, it would be nice to see how much money is allocated to this, and what the goals are, and how we will be able to measure success.
There's been no great influx of new club or AMA members since this whole new aspect of the hobby has begun. No one here is reporting local club growth over this.
I'm open to any and all information regarding this but what I'm getting is "that;'s just your opinion" responses. Is that because it's just not what you want to hear?
"As I mentioned earlier, it would be nice to see how much money is allocated to this, and what the goals are, and how we will be able to measure success."
I agree with that 100% and have asked for a explanation and a budget from the d8 VP . We all should contact our VP's and ask the same question. As of right now I get the feeling we as a organization have a blank check approach to this.
Last edited by rcmiket; 06-25-2015 at 07:56 AM.
06-25-2015, 07:57 AM
#306
" I did before posting. No offense, but it's obvious many of your statements are in need of some fact checking."
No offense taken but did you actually look up our status with the IRS or just quote from the site? We are what we are a 501 (c) 3. We are one of many clubs that hold that status.
You choose to look at this wwhole thing with rose colored glasses. I hope your right and I am wrong but I'm not holding my breath.
Mike
No offense taken but did you actually look up our status with the IRS or just quote from the site? We are what we are a 501 (c) 3. We are one of many clubs that hold that status.
You choose to look at this wwhole thing with rose colored glasses. I hope your right and I am wrong but I'm not holding my breath.
Mike
Have you even been audited?
What is your organization's justification for qualification as a 501(c)3? Legally qualifying as a 501(c3) for your typical R/C club seems a bit of a stretch.
06-25-2015, 07:59 AM
#307
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. A small percentage of these users do stay with the hobby and we are seeing them come to our club meetings wanting to become part of the mainstream segment of the hobby. Seems like FPV Drone Racing is developing a small niche, so Ace Dude's prediction isn't off much at all.
Mike
06-25-2015, 08:09 AM
#308
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I did. I stand corrected. Your organization is registered as a 501(c)3. I don't understand how it could possibly be legal, but...
Have you even been audited?
What is your organization's justification for qualification as a 501(c)3? Legally qualifying as a 501(c3) for your typical R/C club seems a bit of a stretch.
Have you even been audited?
What is your organization's justification for qualification as a 501(c)3? Legally qualifying as a 501(c3) for your typical R/C club seems a bit of a stretch.
There are many many RC Clubs out there who hold the same status as we do. When we do Charity Fly Ins ( and we've done many) some donors require it for them to even consider donating..
Mike
Last edited by rcmiket; 06-25-2015 at 08:16 AM.
06-25-2015, 12:50 PM
#309
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It is not a huge uptick in interest, but is there and who knows where it will go, the LHS's are supportive and this weekend we are hosting a Warbird pylon racing event and there is rumor about that some quad copter types might put on a noontime exhibition race. They can't fly unless they have proof of AMA, so there you go, maybe a trend.
06-25-2015, 01:30 PM
#310
"Traditional modelers" need to remember that what they do was once disorganized and every bit as renegade as what the multirotor crowd does now. Back in the '40's, the typical free flight contest was held at whatever expanse of treeless land that a group could find. Most weren't sanctioned or regulated; they just did them however they wanted to. Control line flying was done much the same way, on any patch of flat grass located where neighbors wouldn't complain much. By today's standards, it was quite disorganized. The culture of aeromodelers has grown complacent and traditionalist, quite the opposite of its origins. With the current mentality, we never would have developed proportional R/C, started using Monokote or buying ARFs, developed foam or composite models, or accepted early helicopters into the hobby. Aeromodeling is by nature an innovative hobby. When we oppose innovation, we oppose what has made it good.
As for multirotors never contributing to the AMA or to the hobby as a whole, you have to remember that that branch of the hobby is still developing. As mentioned above, FPV racing is quickly gaining in popularity which requires a safe flying site and needs to have insurance. And as the multirotor hobby develops, I could see mission based contests developing which will have similar requirements along with obstacle course racing and aerobatics contests. We don't really know yet how this part of the hobby will look in the next 10 years, but I can say with certainty that if we reject it now we won't benefit from it later. Give it some time and see what happens. Just hovering one of these things over the local city park is going to get old real fast, so let's be the ones who can offer some new challenges to add excitement to it. If the local clubs embrace this new technology as the AMA has done, we will all benefit in the long run.
As for multirotors never contributing to the AMA or to the hobby as a whole, you have to remember that that branch of the hobby is still developing. As mentioned above, FPV racing is quickly gaining in popularity which requires a safe flying site and needs to have insurance. And as the multirotor hobby develops, I could see mission based contests developing which will have similar requirements along with obstacle course racing and aerobatics contests. We don't really know yet how this part of the hobby will look in the next 10 years, but I can say with certainty that if we reject it now we won't benefit from it later. Give it some time and see what happens. Just hovering one of these things over the local city park is going to get old real fast, so let's be the ones who can offer some new challenges to add excitement to it. If the local clubs embrace this new technology as the AMA has done, we will all benefit in the long run.
06-25-2015, 04:03 PM
#311
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BIG BEAR LAKE, Calif. -- A drone flying above a 20,000-acre brush fire in the San Bernardino Mountains interfered with the firefight Wednesday, officials say.
CBS Los Angeles reports that the fixed-wing air craft had to be grounded due to FAA regulations after a drone was seen flying over the Onyx Summit area around 5:30 p.m., Cal Fire officials say.
In a tweet posted around 7:30 p.m., Cal Fire Public Information Officer Daniel Berlant wrote that pilots' lives were put "at risk" due to the "hobby drone."
This is the kinda crap that will kill us regardless of how much the AMA spends. .Anyone have any ideas how to deal with this?
Mike
CBS Los Angeles reports that the fixed-wing air craft had to be grounded due to FAA regulations after a drone was seen flying over the Onyx Summit area around 5:30 p.m., Cal Fire officials say.
Tonight a hobby drone grounded firefighting aircraft by flying over the #LakeFire. When you fly...we CAN'T! Puts our pilots lives at risk.
— CAL FIRE PIO Berlant (@CALFIRE_PIO) June 25, 2015
A spokesperson for the agency says the sheriff's department was contacted.— CAL FIRE PIO Berlant (@CALFIRE_PIO) June 25, 2015
In a tweet posted around 7:30 p.m., Cal Fire Public Information Officer Daniel Berlant wrote that pilots' lives were put "at risk" due to the "hobby drone."
This is the kinda crap that will kill us regardless of how much the AMA spends. .Anyone have any ideas how to deal with this?
Mike
Last edited by rcmiket; 06-25-2015 at 04:05 PM.
06-25-2015, 05:16 PM
#312
Banned
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"Traditional modelers" need to remember that what they do was once disorganized and every bit as renegade as what the multirotor crowd does now. Back in the '40's, the typical free flight contest was held at whatever expanse of treeless land that a group could find. Most weren't sanctioned or regulated; they just did them however they wanted to. Control line flying was done much the same way, on any patch of flat grass located where neighbors wouldn't complain much. By today's standards, it was quite disorganized. The culture of aeromodelers has grown complacent and traditionalist, quite the opposite of its origins. With the current mentality, we never would have developed proportional R/C, started using Monokote or buying ARFs, developed foam or composite models, or accepted early helicopters into the hobby. Aeromodeling is by nature an innovative hobby. When we oppose innovation, we oppose what has made it good.
As for multirotors never contributing to the AMA or to the hobby as a whole, you have to remember that that branch of the hobby is still developing. As mentioned above, FPV racing is quickly gaining in popularity which requires a safe flying site and needs to have insurance. And as the multirotor hobby develops, I could see mission based contests developing which will have similar requirements along with obstacle course racing and aerobatics contests. We don't really know yet how this part of the hobby will look in the next 10 years, but I can say with certainty that if we reject it now we won't benefit from it later. Give it some time and see what happens. Just hovering one of these things over the local city park is going to get old real fast, so let's be the ones who can offer some new challenges to add excitement to it. If the local clubs embrace this new technology as the AMA has done, we will all benefit in the long run.
As for multirotors never contributing to the AMA or to the hobby as a whole, you have to remember that that branch of the hobby is still developing. As mentioned above, FPV racing is quickly gaining in popularity which requires a safe flying site and needs to have insurance. And as the multirotor hobby develops, I could see mission based contests developing which will have similar requirements along with obstacle course racing and aerobatics contests. We don't really know yet how this part of the hobby will look in the next 10 years, but I can say with certainty that if we reject it now we won't benefit from it later. Give it some time and see what happens. Just hovering one of these things over the local city park is going to get old real fast, so let's be the ones who can offer some new challenges to add excitement to it. If the local clubs embrace this new technology as the AMA has done, we will all benefit in the long run.
06-25-2015, 05:26 PM
#314
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
BIG BEAR LAKE, Calif. -- A drone flying above a 20,000-acre brush fire in the San Bernardino Mountains interfered with the firefight Wednesday, officials say.
CBS Los Angeles reports that the fixed-wing air craft had to be grounded due to FAA regulations after a drone was seen flying over the Onyx Summit area around 5:30 p.m., Cal Fire officials say.
In a tweet posted around 7:30 p.m., Cal Fire Public Information Officer Daniel Berlant wrote that pilots' lives were put "at risk" due to the "hobby drone."
This is the kinda crap that will kill us regardless of how much the AMA spends. .Anyone have any ideas how to deal with this?
Mike
CBS Los Angeles reports that the fixed-wing air craft had to be grounded due to FAA regulations after a drone was seen flying over the Onyx Summit area around 5:30 p.m., Cal Fire officials say.
Tonight a hobby drone grounded firefighting aircraft by flying over the #LakeFire. When you fly...we CAN'T! Puts our pilots lives at risk.
— CAL FIRE PIO Berlant (@CALFIRE_PIO) June 25, 2015
A spokesperson for the agency says the sheriff's department was contacted.— CAL FIRE PIO Berlant (@CALFIRE_PIO) June 25, 2015
In a tweet posted around 7:30 p.m., Cal Fire Public Information Officer Daniel Berlant wrote that pilots' lives were put "at risk" due to the "hobby drone."
This is the kinda crap that will kill us regardless of how much the AMA spends. .Anyone have any ideas how to deal with this?
Mike
06-25-2015, 08:23 PM
#315
Moderator
Thanks porcia83.
To rgburrill- Yes, there are a few knuckleheads who do stupid things with multirotors. There have also been knuckleheads who did stupid things with helicopters and planes too. The latter doesn't represent the mainstream of the hobby, and I believe the former doesn't represent the mainstream of the autonomous and FPV crowd. The truth of the matter is that multirotor aircraft are selling like crazy, yet incidents of people using them in dangerous ways aren't showing up a lot. Sure, it's a little disorganized right now, but if the AMA stays involved and established aeromodelers befriend multirotor pilots the hobby will self-regulate as it always has. After all, there are very few people who shell out $500-600 on a set of RC gear and decide to go out and be reckless and dangerous with it. But if we push them away, we can practically guarantee that the multirotor crowd will take on an anti-authority attitude and will be uncontrollable in 10 more years.
To rgburrill- Yes, there are a few knuckleheads who do stupid things with multirotors. There have also been knuckleheads who did stupid things with helicopters and planes too. The latter doesn't represent the mainstream of the hobby, and I believe the former doesn't represent the mainstream of the autonomous and FPV crowd. The truth of the matter is that multirotor aircraft are selling like crazy, yet incidents of people using them in dangerous ways aren't showing up a lot. Sure, it's a little disorganized right now, but if the AMA stays involved and established aeromodelers befriend multirotor pilots the hobby will self-regulate as it always has. After all, there are very few people who shell out $500-600 on a set of RC gear and decide to go out and be reckless and dangerous with it. But if we push them away, we can practically guarantee that the multirotor crowd will take on an anti-authority attitude and will be uncontrollable in 10 more years.
06-25-2015, 09:47 PM
#316
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Thanks porcia83.
To rgburrill- Yes, there are a few knuckleheads who do stupid things with multirotors. There have also been knuckleheads who did stupid things with helicopters and planes too. The latter doesn't represent the mainstream of the hobby, and I believe the former doesn't represent the mainstream of the autonomous and FPV crowd. The truth of the matter is that multirotor aircraft are selling like crazy, yet incidents of people using them in dangerous ways aren't showing up a lot. Sure, it's a little disorganized right now, but if the AMA stays involved and established aeromodelers befriend multirotor pilots the hobby will self-regulate as it always has. After all, there are very few people who shell out $500-600 on a set of RC gear and decide to go out and be reckless and dangerous with it. But if we push them away, we can practically guarantee that the multirotor crowd will take on an anti-authority attitude and will be uncontrollable in 10 more years.
To rgburrill- Yes, there are a few knuckleheads who do stupid things with multirotors. There have also been knuckleheads who did stupid things with helicopters and planes too. The latter doesn't represent the mainstream of the hobby, and I believe the former doesn't represent the mainstream of the autonomous and FPV crowd. The truth of the matter is that multirotor aircraft are selling like crazy, yet incidents of people using them in dangerous ways aren't showing up a lot. Sure, it's a little disorganized right now, but if the AMA stays involved and established aeromodelers befriend multirotor pilots the hobby will self-regulate as it always has. After all, there are very few people who shell out $500-600 on a set of RC gear and decide to go out and be reckless and dangerous with it. But if we push them away, we can practically guarantee that the multirotor crowd will take on an anti-authority attitude and will be uncontrollable in 10 more years.
06-26-2015, 03:55 AM
#317
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06-26-2015, 03:58 AM
#318
BIG BEAR LAKE, Calif. -- A drone flying above a 20,000-acre brush fire in the San Bernardino Mountains interfered with the firefight Wednesday, officials say.
CBS Los Angeles reports that the fixed-wing air craft had to be grounded due to FAA regulations after a drone was seen flying over the Onyx Summit area around 5:30 p.m., Cal Fire officials say.
In a tweet posted around 7:30 p.m., Cal Fire Public Information Officer Daniel Berlant wrote that pilots' lives were put "at risk" due to the "hobby drone."
This is the kinda crap that will kill us regardless of how much the AMA spends. .Anyone have any ideas how to deal with this?
Mike
CBS Los Angeles reports that the fixed-wing air craft had to be grounded due to FAA regulations after a drone was seen flying over the Onyx Summit area around 5:30 p.m., Cal Fire officials say.
Tonight a hobby drone grounded firefighting aircraft by flying over the #LakeFire. When you fly...we CAN'T! Puts our pilots lives at risk.
— CAL FIRE PIO Berlant (@CALFIRE_PIO) June 25, 2015
A spokesperson for the agency says the sheriff's department was contacted.— CAL FIRE PIO Berlant (@CALFIRE_PIO) June 25, 2015
In a tweet posted around 7:30 p.m., Cal Fire Public Information Officer Daniel Berlant wrote that pilots' lives were put "at risk" due to the "hobby drone."
This is the kinda crap that will kill us regardless of how much the AMA spends. .Anyone have any ideas how to deal with this?
Mike
To summarize, follow the AMA's lead.
06-26-2015, 05:19 AM
#319
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If they are found, arrest and prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law. Confiscate the aircraft, fine the operator, impose jail time if appropriate. Publicize that. Ensure that the media follow that story so that someone else thinking about doing it may stop and have a second thought. Not everyone is going to have a pro bono lawyer like Trappy did, the reality of their actions is going to hit them squarely in the face when they are getting cuffed and stuffed into the back of a cruiser.
Mike
06-26-2015, 05:54 AM
#320
Moderator
rcmiket- I beg to differ. Quite a few who identify themselves as "traditional RC pilots" are pretty adamant that multirotors are going to ruin the hobby and want nothing to do with them. They don't want them at their flying club fields, and they want the AMA to distance itself from them. That's the crowd I addressed my comment to.
06-26-2015, 06:13 AM
#321
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rcmiket- I beg to differ. Quite a few who identify themselves as "traditional RC pilots" are pretty adamant that multirotors are going to ruin the hobby and want nothing to do with them. They don't want them at their flying club fields, and they want the AMA to distance itself from them. That's the crowd I addressed my comment to.
While I can't speak for every club out there the ones in my area are very open to any form of R/C.
I still feel that most will never show up at a field anyway.
Mike
06-26-2015, 07:22 AM
#322
rcmiket- I beg to differ. Quite a few who identify themselves as "traditional RC pilots" are pretty adamant that multirotors are going to ruin the hobby and want nothing to do with them. They don't want them at their flying club fields, and they want the AMA to distance itself from them. That's the crowd I addressed my comment to.
06-26-2015, 08:05 AM
#324
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Absolutely have to have new membership levels in AMA to suit everyone.
If you break it down, the bleeding edge of the hobby has changed in huge ways.
Disruption has clearly come, and it has come in two ways.
1) multirotors
2) FPV
(subnote - progress in electric propulsion, control systems, and communications systems is fundamental to these changes).
Per se, a multi rotor has to be flown line-of-sight or else the pilot will likely crash it. Natural limitations keep its use docile. They are about as entertaining as model airplanes, model helicopters (let's say). So, no real threat from multi-rotors, per se.
The really really big disruption is FPV. FPV opens up a ton more scenarios for nefarious and/or stoopid use. FPV goes beyond simple recorded video without using FPV.
FPV really allows a performance/range jump - with accompanying risks.
So, it is the piloting method that creates new problems (as well as legitimate entertainment and commercial opportunities.)
The club I belong to doesn't even allow helicopters or multirotors and I am happy about that, despite the fact that I plan on getting into FPV multi-rotors. You can fly them many many places, doesn't have to be at the flying field. I think multi-rotor use will be limited through local ordinances the same way personal watercraft are. This would be for nuisance reasons, wildlife protection (harassment of breeding birds, for instance), human safety reasons (one of the biggest reasons), privacy, and others. I personally would swat down a multi-rotor of unknown origin if it came within range. So I would be in favor of ordinances restricting these kinds of uses.
On the other hand, Air-to-Air photography/videography is great and a way has to be made to allow this some instances.
So bringing it back to costs within AMA, there may have to be a couple of new memberships to create. One, for turbojets. These can cause huge damage, whether flown responsibly or not. If you can afford a tubo-jet, you can pay extra insurance. But, that is a different discussion, just bringing this to light. Same for large aircraft above 55 lbs, or whatever weight.
FPV membership: The FAA is going to regulate beyond-line-of-sight FPV flying, it is coming. If even allowed at all, it will entail a new FAA certificate. This will be for farmers, emergency services, power line inspection, etc. There will be a different FAA rating for commercial FPV. Each comes with a cost to the operator.
Point is, since there are higher risks associated with FPV (keeping in mind privacy, safety over a potentially bigger range of airspace, etc.)
Outside of an FAA certificate, there should just be a special registration and insurance rider for that under AMA, an additional level of membership that will have higher fees associated with the higher cost of AMA representation, insurance, etc.
This is going to have to happen to preserve the huge amount of folks that just want to fly at the club field, back yard, or park. The AMA has to protect its entire base, and lnot leave members behind. So, create a new membership for multi-rotor add-on.
I think FPV multi-rotor racing is fantastic and is the connection point back to AMA - if you are going to fly events, they are going to have to be AMA sanctioned for insurance reasons. This one is easy. As with airplanes, not all multi-rotor flyers will join AMA.
AMA has to create new levels of membership. The bleeding edge people can afford the difference. Traditional flyers on fixed income - we have to care for those members, too. These people should not have to bear the burden of these huge legal costs keeping us all one big, happy family. Assign the costs to the beneficiaries.
A couple more cents thrown into the pot.
Cheers,
Poughkeepsie Pete
Disruption has clearly come, and it has come in two ways.
1) multirotors
2) FPV
(subnote - progress in electric propulsion, control systems, and communications systems is fundamental to these changes).
Per se, a multi rotor has to be flown line-of-sight or else the pilot will likely crash it. Natural limitations keep its use docile. They are about as entertaining as model airplanes, model helicopters (let's say). So, no real threat from multi-rotors, per se.
The really really big disruption is FPV. FPV opens up a ton more scenarios for nefarious and/or stoopid use. FPV goes beyond simple recorded video without using FPV.
FPV really allows a performance/range jump - with accompanying risks.
So, it is the piloting method that creates new problems (as well as legitimate entertainment and commercial opportunities.)
The club I belong to doesn't even allow helicopters or multirotors and I am happy about that, despite the fact that I plan on getting into FPV multi-rotors. You can fly them many many places, doesn't have to be at the flying field. I think multi-rotor use will be limited through local ordinances the same way personal watercraft are. This would be for nuisance reasons, wildlife protection (harassment of breeding birds, for instance), human safety reasons (one of the biggest reasons), privacy, and others. I personally would swat down a multi-rotor of unknown origin if it came within range. So I would be in favor of ordinances restricting these kinds of uses.
On the other hand, Air-to-Air photography/videography is great and a way has to be made to allow this some instances.
So bringing it back to costs within AMA, there may have to be a couple of new memberships to create. One, for turbojets. These can cause huge damage, whether flown responsibly or not. If you can afford a tubo-jet, you can pay extra insurance. But, that is a different discussion, just bringing this to light. Same for large aircraft above 55 lbs, or whatever weight.
FPV membership: The FAA is going to regulate beyond-line-of-sight FPV flying, it is coming. If even allowed at all, it will entail a new FAA certificate. This will be for farmers, emergency services, power line inspection, etc. There will be a different FAA rating for commercial FPV. Each comes with a cost to the operator.
Point is, since there are higher risks associated with FPV (keeping in mind privacy, safety over a potentially bigger range of airspace, etc.)
Outside of an FAA certificate, there should just be a special registration and insurance rider for that under AMA, an additional level of membership that will have higher fees associated with the higher cost of AMA representation, insurance, etc.
This is going to have to happen to preserve the huge amount of folks that just want to fly at the club field, back yard, or park. The AMA has to protect its entire base, and lnot leave members behind. So, create a new membership for multi-rotor add-on.
I think FPV multi-rotor racing is fantastic and is the connection point back to AMA - if you are going to fly events, they are going to have to be AMA sanctioned for insurance reasons. This one is easy. As with airplanes, not all multi-rotor flyers will join AMA.
AMA has to create new levels of membership. The bleeding edge people can afford the difference. Traditional flyers on fixed income - we have to care for those members, too. These people should not have to bear the burden of these huge legal costs keeping us all one big, happy family. Assign the costs to the beneficiaries.
A couple more cents thrown into the pot.
Cheers,
Poughkeepsie Pete
06-26-2015, 08:30 AM
#325
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The dues increase topic:
A few years ago I interviewed the late Mr. Cherry, the AMA administrator, via email for my club newsletter. One of the questions I asked was "what percentage of AMA income is spent on wages, salaries, benefits, and related expenses for personnel". I was pleasantly surprised to have been given the answer straight away, and it really shocked me. I wish I could remember the exact number, but just let me say it was over 60% .... I think it was even higher. (If a current AMA financial person is reading this, I hope they can provide the current exact figure or close to it). I would have hoped scholarships, or field location support, or some other worthy resource would have commanded that high percentage.
I should add I go way way back to the Sport Flyers Association, the magazine fiasco, the move from Reston to the current location, and all the attendant politics involved. I should also say I belong to the AMA -like so many others- because my club requires it. It's the easiest way for us to meet our county requirements for field use, including meeting the liability rules.
I also don't have any fear the government is out to get the modeler; government is never pro-active however, they are always re-active. The quad helicopter revolution has them scrambling. All the guys that wanted to learn to fly true rotary aircraft but never did rushed to get the quads because anyone can fly them. By the way that's fine, but it's pretty obvious they are difficult to regulate/control/license, etc. As someone else said, just my opinion.
A few years ago I interviewed the late Mr. Cherry, the AMA administrator, via email for my club newsletter. One of the questions I asked was "what percentage of AMA income is spent on wages, salaries, benefits, and related expenses for personnel". I was pleasantly surprised to have been given the answer straight away, and it really shocked me. I wish I could remember the exact number, but just let me say it was over 60% .... I think it was even higher. (If a current AMA financial person is reading this, I hope they can provide the current exact figure or close to it). I would have hoped scholarships, or field location support, or some other worthy resource would have commanded that high percentage.
I should add I go way way back to the Sport Flyers Association, the magazine fiasco, the move from Reston to the current location, and all the attendant politics involved. I should also say I belong to the AMA -like so many others- because my club requires it. It's the easiest way for us to meet our county requirements for field use, including meeting the liability rules.
I also don't have any fear the government is out to get the modeler; government is never pro-active however, they are always re-active. The quad helicopter revolution has them scrambling. All the guys that wanted to learn to fly true rotary aircraft but never did rushed to get the quads because anyone can fly them. By the way that's fine, but it's pretty obvious they are difficult to regulate/control/license, etc. As someone else said, just my opinion.