rcmiket

I like it. Wish the ones spending the money would see that.

Mike

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Um, that's exactly what the AMA has been doing, spending money educating the public about safe flying. That any money is being spent on this seems to draw the criticism. There is no impactful way to have a campaign, the thrust of which is "we're the good guys, they are the outlaws". The promotion of safe flying rules/regs, partnering with the FAA (as much as possible), and the continued discussions by AMA senior leaders in the media promoting safe flying is what has been going on.

Duncman

I thought Vespa's were for the ladies and the menfolk rode Triumphs? Oh that is right, Triumph had a scooter also, my mistake.

rcmiket

Besides the op ed in USA today by Dave M ( I pasted a link). just where is all the "educating the general public" and the discussion by AMA senior leaders in the media"? All I've seen target existing AMA members and remember were not the problem . I'd love to see where the "over a million spent" went to educating the general public.

By the way the link posted didn't cost a dime to get printed in the USA Today.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2015/06/27/faa-aircraft-models-hobbyists-ama-column/71006100/?siteID=je6NUbpObpQ-EAd66ZeJSAAqjw5N0_k0hg

Mike

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

I can't tell anyone how disappointed I was when I read this and what followed in that article; "By no means did Congress intend to give hobbyists a free pass. Instead, policymakers left risk mitigation and the development of appropriate safety guidelines for the operation of model aircraft devices to community-based organizations, like AMA." A dark day for me.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Well, I know they were there to transport ladies, and then some.



This is not an uncommon sight.

But I get it, they are perceived as less than manly. The heart wants what it wants. I like the vintage Ducati's too...does that count?

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Who ever said a million dollars was spent on educating the general public? Of course the op-ed piece didn't cost a dime, it's an op ed piece. I've never heard of a paper charging for those. Yes, Dave's message is received by members, but he and Rich Hanson are routinely quoted in various media sourced when this issue comes up. 15 seconds to google this:

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/technology/238364-drone-hobbyists-have-long-history-of-safe-responsible-flying

http://www.lohud.com/story/news/loca...safe/20835737/

http://article.wn.com/view/2015/05/2...AMA_go_to_war/


Is that message any less impactful because it hasn't been paid for? This is going to be an ongoing process, and I'd have to guess that much of the funding will be going towards lobbying and legal efforts. I know there is an incentive for hobby shops to get AMA members signed up, I know I saw in some financial report that something close to 20k was paid by the AMA to hobby shops for that, I'll try to find it.

rcmiket

Um, thought that AMA was in your words "Um, that's exactly what the AMA has been doing, spending money educating the public"

Where? Like I asked please point me in the direction I'd love to read it. I provided the link to Dave's Oped directed at the public you had to dig for 3 links that nobody saw. At least the USA Today is read by a few average Joe's out there.. Seems like we could and should spend a few bucks getting the word out to the public. After all aren't they the ones that are judging us in the court of public opinion?; Should we not try and sway them to our cause? Hell we might even get one or two who bought these things online to join the AMA............................................... ............................................and yes we have spent more than a million on this and maybe some of it needs to be redirected.,

Mike

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

It's virtually impossible to have a dialog with you where you don't respond with generalizations like this one....."I provided the link to Dave's Oped directed at the public you had to dig for 3 links that nobody saw". a 5 second google search brought those up, and somehow you've deduced nobody saw those links? And I guess you have more inside info on what has been spent so far on this process, some links to that would be great. I get your passion on the topic, but c'mon. It doesn't appear that there is anything positive or worthwhile that the AMA is doing on this issue from your perspective. If you haven't noticed a marked increase in public awareness with regards to the AMA/FAA, and articles and news stories in all types of media, you're just not looking hard enough, or at all. And yes, you are right, much of this education has been directed at us, the members. And why not, we're the ones who need to be subject matter experts on the issue as much as possible. If you're looking for a PR campaign like an agency would devise to promote a new product, like a new Pepsi, that comes with a specific budget, I doubt you'll find one.

As I've noted previously, I'd like to see a more defined set of goals laid out, the costs to achieve those goals, and the metrics by which someone can measure success. I'd also like to see some more partnerships with hobby shops, and the big 4 or 5 companies (HH, Tower, HK, Hobby Express) along with the AMA to promote inclusion, and membership. A discount to join, a piece of the fee to a shop, or website etc. At least that is something we can look at and say hey.. HH had 250 sales of the XYZ model and of those, 60 people joined AMA (or rejoined) based on a coupon code a marketing tie in.

rcmiket

I'm not asking you to split a atom here , just back you what you post.
I'm standing on the front lines as a retailer ( and Club Officer) so I actually see what's being sold and to who. That's where my concern is.
You post like your some authority on the subject so I figure your the "go to" guy on the subject.
I do not think the AMA is wrong all the time ( although I question some of the past expenditures) but.I am concerned about just how they are going about it along with the amount of money we will spend. I belong to the AMA and serve as a a Club Officer along with being on the Board of Directors for our club. I along with every member of the AMA has a huge stake in whats going on here.
You think I'm a jerk fine. I'm sure if we were sitting somewhere having a drink things might be different..
You Said ". "Um, that's exactly what the AMA has been doing, spending money educating the public""
.I just asked for a link. That's it nothing hard just a link.
.

Mike

Duncman

Ducati's, you bet. Anything over 30 years old is pretty cool, even Vespa's.

HoundDog

My Feedback: (49)

Again I bring up the idea that every one that wishes to fly anything as a recreational R/C Pilot take a written or computerized test and and upon passing said test be issued a recreational R/C Pilot license. The study material could be in every model sold the box would be labeled "Recreational R/C Pilot License Required" This way everyone will know they must be licensed to fly R/C just as riding a motor cycle, Driving a car, or Flying a full scale plane. If any of U fear taking this test maybe U shouldn't be flying. Maybe if U are over 80 and been flying continuously since U were ten U could get a waver. OH and belonged to a Community Based Origination too. Now have fun with that.

rcmiket

http://knowbeforeyoufly.org/

Some good information there that needs to get out to those not in the loop.

I found another oped from Dave 1-15 in the USA Today

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinio...ates/22497911/

then this "our view" link in the same story

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinio...ates/22497763/

Good and bad in the same article.

Mike

BrightGarden

+1 Houndog, in theory. There are some aspects of what you propose that need to be hashed out.

I use personal watercraft(PWC's) and hang gliding/paragliding as examples.
Municipalities have ordinances against unbridled use of PWC's. They became nuisances and hazards and even threats so the public clamped down on them.

Hang gliders: US Hang- and Para-Glider Association, USHPA which self-regulates members and the sport: http://www.ushpa.aero/aboutus.asp

"USHPA is one of only two self-regulated air sports in the United States. This means that the Association has developed a complete pilot rating system, the USHPA Pilot Proficiency Program, which is available for our Pilot and Rogallo Members. Additionally, the USHPA maintains a complete instructor certification program to assist those interested in becoming teachers of the air sports associations."

If we, the AMA, are going to pump over $1M into lobbying, then we/it have to go all the way. It is a new age, I think we can all see and admit that.
We have to go all-in in having AMA be a true community based organization, with teeth.

The flip side to what you propose, HoundDog, is what would the "teeth" be? "If you don't oblige the CBOrganization, and complete the rating, then --> XYZ <--. What is the XYZ?
I think that is where the AMA, with your proposed certification system, can distance itself from the recalcitrant daredevils, through public relations.
The main job is show how AMA self-regulates, and the rest of the world is the badlands.

That way we can have a steady drumbeat in the press that separates us from the sensational.

Again, this is great strategy to maintain AMA member flying rights and protect them from attack.
This is the next 10-15 years of AMA, we're looking at, before something else comes along to upset the balance.

Good going, HoundDog. I'm for it.

jonkoppisch

My Feedback: (162)

so you'll have to establish a whole new licensing bureau and regulatory system for rc aircraft.. I don't see it working as everyone will still be able to purchase the items without being 'licensed' and never complete the process and go ahead and fly.

The Ama's version of this is that to purchase an rc aircraft you need to join or show proof of being an AMA member (sounds like a new govt agency). As everyone knows when you join the AMA you agree to certain rules established by them which would cover any of the incidences above. No new agency required, no extra paperwork etc. We already have it established. Talk about a monopoly lol

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

That stinks!

BrightGarden

jonkoppisch and littlecrankshaf

If a CBOrganization with a smaller budget can self-regulate full-scale aircraft that carry humans can do a good job, so can we. That's USHPA.

In my opinion, this is what AMA is going to have to do to protect itself and its members from the onslaught of regulations.
AMA (We!) can either be proactive and manage this, or sit around in forums like this waiting for the apocolypse.

By embracing progress, things will change, but a better emphasis will be placed on the positive side of change. It won't all be negative.
Seen it happen in other instances. Better to be proactive.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Still stinks no matter how much honey you put on it...But I really like your signature line.

BrightGarden

Thanks on the tagline mention, LCShaf...

I completely agree about it stinking.
My own story is that I loved building and crashing planes as kid, thru high school. Let the hobby go thru college but then built a Mark's Model Wanderer around 1990 and flew that for fun for several years. Then other things distracted me. Flash forward to April of last year, 2014. The bug bit me big time and I came back in, all in. I even decided it was time to join AMA. Within a couple of months of joining the whole hullabaloo of the FPV/FAA thing hit like a hurricane. So, I basically dropped into a minefield when I decided to join back in the hobby last year.

In those away-years, I did a lot of club-level sailboat racing around eastern US with a bunch of great people.
That sport had to have a makeover, like our hobby does, to meet changing interests and choices.
I saw how participation could be multiplied - yes, multiplied - by doing more of what was fun.
A few stalwart, superb sailors really encouraged people like me to jump all-in and provided tons of help and enthusiasm.

I am trying to keep this short, there were a couple of other foundational lessons I experienced, that can be applied to model aircraft flying.
That keeps me very positive, and I guess quite willing to pitch in from a grassroots level to bolster the ranks while helping to increase the sway the AMA has over the hobby - and industry.

Crap, I think I just volunteered.

Best,
Poughkeepsie Pete.

PS Sailing and airplane/rotor flying are SUPERB compliments to each other. When it's too windy, just go sailing. And there are airfoils and air/hydrodymics involved. And lots of little, expensive gizmos.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Wow, although quite a bit earlier for me, your and my experiences are very similar... My first truly successful RC model was the Mark's Wanderer too. I still have it.

Now as far as all this mumbo-jumbo about tests, licenses and cavity searches...had that been the case back in the day, I am certain the hobby I enjoy now would be something else...and like you, I built models a long time before getting RC capable. IMO if we let such crap as HD proposes continue inundating the hobby we will have nothing to worry about as the hobby will just die... Had it not been for fairly recent advents it would be on the ropes now...

Duncman

That should be a club level requirement and some clubs address this issue but even fewer enforce it, that needs improvement, no doubt. Makes sense to do that for drivers/motorcycle licenses, full scale flying, etc., the regulatory and enforcement mechanisms are in place and the effects of operator incompetence in these categories have far more dire and far reaching consequences than our RC craft currently demonstrate. What you propose is all but completely unenforceable without creating another costly state/federal agency to regulate it and to expect the industry to self regulate it is ludicrous at best. Maybe in 20/30 years what you propose may be needed, but not now.

rcmiket

Are you a club officer or are you willng to run the testing and so on for your club? I am a officer and have been for some time it's enough managing the day to day stuff now you want me to test people and give out a license? I'd like time to enjoy the hobby too and need no new added responsibilities..

Mike

islandflyer

Another couple of incidents involving drones reported by airline.
These reported incidents now average 2 a day, or 60 a month.
These issues are much bigger that the AMA is or will ever be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVqmWwaLSGc

Duncman

Mike, Yes, I am a club officer, treasurer to be exact, and I have my hands full and I'm retired. The implication of my posting was not to encourage/impose a national level licensing program that is administered at the club level but to discourage it at the national level. If a club wants to do that at their field then so be it, goes for a vote for the membership. I would hope my club wouldn't do it for the very same reasons you expressed but that being said, I would like to see a couple of our more advance pilots acquire Pilot Instructor Cert and implement an informal training program and proficiency review for new members, we have had problems with beginners and even some more advance types flying planes beyond their skill set lose control and endanger pits and spectators. Frankly I'm not much in favor of anything that imposes additional tasking's on volunteer positions, tough enough as it is to get folks to step forward and do the grunt stuff. A little off point in this forum but I hope my position is a little more clear for you.

Duncman

Getting to be a huge issue.