Dues increase coming? 1 million spent on government relations.....
08-07-2015, 02:52 PM
#576
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Boy if you cant afford $75 to $100 a year for the AMA, who by the way does us a lot of good.
DON'T try going to a baseball or basketball game. DON'T even think you can afford golf.
You will never make it to Hawaii, but you may make a couple of movies............
If you cant afford the hobby, you better find something cheaper, like Ant farming.
DON'T try going to a baseball or basketball game. DON'T even think you can afford golf.
You will never make it to Hawaii, but you may make a couple of movies............
If you cant afford the hobby, you better find something cheaper, like Ant farming.
08-07-2015, 03:12 PM
#578
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It does not say the AMA has " spent over a million on this issue (drones)" as Mike contends. It says " We have had to spend more than $1 million on government relations to keep model aviation free of onerous restrictions and regulations." That fight began long before "drones' came into the spotlight.
08-07-2015, 03:19 PM
#579
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It does not say the AMA has " spent over a million on this issue (drones)" as Mike contends. It says " We have had to spend more than $1 million on government relations to keep model aviation free of onerous restrictions and regulations." That fight began long before "drones' came into the spotlight.
I don't suspect that this will change the narrative some will continue to try to put forward, and lay this solely at the feet of the drone issue. No doubt the involvement of a PR firm however was in response to the drone issue though. I don't think the AMA was sufficiently staffed to deal with that from a public relations standpoint. So they let the pros do it, and pros ain't cheap!
08-07-2015, 05:15 PM
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It does not say the AMA has " spent over a million on this issue (drones)" as Mike contends. It says " We have had to spend more than $1 million on government relations to keep model aviation free of onerous restrictions and regulations." That fight began long before "drones' came into the spotlight.
08-07-2015, 06:38 PM
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as part of Model Aviation Day our club is having a custom made hexacopter do a simulated preplanned "search and rescue" operation at our field, and then having a group of Civil Air Patrol Cadets create their own search and rescue scenario and carry it out with the hex. We'll have a widescreen TV at the field to track it in real time. Only a one member so far who we convinced to join AMA first, and then he came back to join our club, and he's into the FRV racing. Another more experienced guy has the hex. Although not my cup of tea I'm looking forward to putting this together and seeing how it plays out.
08-08-2015, 02:25 AM
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08-08-2015, 04:12 AM
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I like the AMA and will continue to support it. I enjoy the historical preservation of the Museum which I have been to twice, I like the communication and availability of plans, articles, etc, etc….
But I do have a question. One of my first criteria for joining was the fear doing something with a model airplane that would cause injury to someone. Has not happened yet….although I did almost kill the Governor of Colorado 12 years ago when my 11 pound plane lost signal and flew 15 feet over his head crashing in mud 60 feet behind him at Cherry Creek Reservoir in Denver. As I raced to the scene and called out "was anyone hurt" my second, third, and fourth thoughts were thank God, Santa Claus, and AMA that I have insurance.
To the question.
Don't all the 732,283 non AMA drone pilots worry about insurance? Obviously they don't care. And don't care about government intervention into their risky flying.
The AMA has approached dues funding in the wrong way. My suggestion is to forget paying lobbyists and attorneys to sit in conference in Washington. Sell us on getting better insurance and then raise the rates another ten bucks… then go after the Drone only flyers with a "godly fear" of being uninsured. Tell us the exciting story of how a drone pilot who kilt a person, with his .45 pistol carrying drone… was left hanging for the Crows, in a Gibit over a freeway intersection somewhere. Let's have a non AMA pilot termination law .
But I do have a question. One of my first criteria for joining was the fear doing something with a model airplane that would cause injury to someone. Has not happened yet….although I did almost kill the Governor of Colorado 12 years ago when my 11 pound plane lost signal and flew 15 feet over his head crashing in mud 60 feet behind him at Cherry Creek Reservoir in Denver. As I raced to the scene and called out "was anyone hurt" my second, third, and fourth thoughts were thank God, Santa Claus, and AMA that I have insurance.
To the question.
Don't all the 732,283 non AMA drone pilots worry about insurance? Obviously they don't care. And don't care about government intervention into their risky flying.
The AMA has approached dues funding in the wrong way. My suggestion is to forget paying lobbyists and attorneys to sit in conference in Washington. Sell us on getting better insurance and then raise the rates another ten bucks… then go after the Drone only flyers with a "godly fear" of being uninsured. Tell us the exciting story of how a drone pilot who kilt a person, with his .45 pistol carrying drone… was left hanging for the Crows, in a Gibit over a freeway intersection somewhere. Let's have a non AMA pilot termination law .
08-08-2015, 05:17 AM
#586
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"...To the question. Don't all the 732,283 non AMA drone pilots worry about insurance? Obviously they don't care. And don't care about government intervention into their risky flying....."
The AMA has approached dues funding in the wrong way. My suggestion is to forget paying lobbyists and attorneys to sit in conference in Washington. Sell us on getting better insurance and then raise the rates another ten bucks… then go after the Drone only flyers with a "godly fear" of being uninsured. Tell us the exciting story of how a drone pilot who kilt a person, with his .45 pistol carrying drone… was left hanging for the Crows, in a Gibit over a freeway intersection somewhere. Let's have a non AMA pilot termination law .
The AMA has approached dues funding in the wrong way. My suggestion is to forget paying lobbyists and attorneys to sit in conference in Washington. Sell us on getting better insurance and then raise the rates another ten bucks… then go after the Drone only flyers with a "godly fear" of being uninsured. Tell us the exciting story of how a drone pilot who kilt a person, with his .45 pistol carrying drone… was left hanging for the Crows, in a Gibit over a freeway intersection somewhere. Let's have a non AMA pilot termination law .
08-08-2015, 05:26 AM
#587
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If a significant number of members jump on the 2 year deal than it could be 3 years till we see just what the increase will do to the numbers. Most I've spoke with are doing just that and in 2 years look at just were we are as a organization. Unless the AMA becomes more transparent and open with the members they could face a real issue in a few years. Banking on the "drone" crowd to jump on board is foolish thinking on their part IMO.
Mike
Mike
http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/m...N_8900.313.pdf
Your thoughts? Anything in there you find alarming or harsh in terms of our hobby?
08-08-2015, 06:29 AM
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Mike (aka rcmiket) you have stated here that " by AMA's own admission they have spent over a million on this issue (drones)." Could you please provide documentation of where the AMA has stated it has spent over one million dollars on this specific issue of (drones), as you put it?
It does not say the AMA has " spent over a million on this issue (drones)" as Mike contends. It says " We have had to spend more than $1 million on government relations to keep model aviation free of onerous restrictions and regulations." That fight began long before "drones' came into the spotlight.
Mike
08-08-2015, 06:31 AM
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So after going through a few packs last night, I came back home and shook the ball...the Magic 8 ball people. The result:
I’m going with that, because statistically it’s as good a guess as anyone here can make.
I also happen to really believe that as well, honestly. Specifically with regards to the following:
FAA: nothing onerous or overly burdensome will come from any regulation, whenever that decision is made. We are but a very small player in this game, and yes we are hyper sensitive to how decisions being made on a global scale might adversely affect us. So far, that hasn’t happened. The situation wasn’t perfect, and isn’t perfect, but the AMA has skin in the game, and continues to be heard. The degree to which we are ultimately heard, time will tell. I submit if we were NOT in the game, things might not happen that would help us. Yes they have filed a lawsuit, but that doesn’t automatically mean the process will be adversarial and that the FAA will intentionally make things difficult. Litigation is sometimes a byproduct of advocacy and change, and sometimes it’s needed. For the majority of “us”…it will be business as usual.
AMA: will continue to be vilified no matter what they do. Do too much, bad. Do too little, bad. What is done is done, no amount of debate or discussion will negate that. Are they a perfect organization? No. Do they have the hobby’s best interest at heart, I believe they do. This isn’t a money grab, they have not behaved this way in the past, and I see nothing to indicate this regarding the “drones”. This was an attempt to welcome into the hobby a new method and means of flying, just as they have done over the past 70 plus years. Would it really have made sense to include a heli, that has one rotor, but say no to 3 rotored craft, or quad, because it had 2-3 more rotors? I’m sorry, that’s lunacy. The decision to spend money on education etc was a close one, but it was done. Will that kind of funding continue, probably yes. Will membership increase, yes. Will some people quit, absolutely. Will overall membership see any big swing either way, no. They will continue to play a role in, and partner with other entities to promote membership in the AMA, and help craft smart and safe usage guidelines. They will remain the subject matter expert on the issue. Look for a SIG designation, maybe 2015, probably no later than 2016.
I get that some people aren’t happy with the AMA’s involvement at this point; I’m just not sure what is going to be accomplished “fighting” the issue now. I would say it’s 99.9% certain nothing anyone does is going to shift focus on this matter. What percentage of membership is going to need to do something before things change, don’t know. Chances are though if you are in district that voted NO to AMA’s involvement in this; does it make sense to rally the troops to continue to say no? I say no.
I’m going with that, because statistically it’s as good a guess as anyone here can make.
I also happen to really believe that as well, honestly. Specifically with regards to the following:FAA: nothing onerous or overly burdensome will come from any regulation, whenever that decision is made. We are but a very small player in this game, and yes we are hyper sensitive to how decisions being made on a global scale might adversely affect us. So far, that hasn’t happened. The situation wasn’t perfect, and isn’t perfect, but the AMA has skin in the game, and continues to be heard. The degree to which we are ultimately heard, time will tell. I submit if we were NOT in the game, things might not happen that would help us. Yes they have filed a lawsuit, but that doesn’t automatically mean the process will be adversarial and that the FAA will intentionally make things difficult. Litigation is sometimes a byproduct of advocacy and change, and sometimes it’s needed. For the majority of “us”…it will be business as usual.
AMA: will continue to be vilified no matter what they do. Do too much, bad. Do too little, bad. What is done is done, no amount of debate or discussion will negate that. Are they a perfect organization? No. Do they have the hobby’s best interest at heart, I believe they do. This isn’t a money grab, they have not behaved this way in the past, and I see nothing to indicate this regarding the “drones”. This was an attempt to welcome into the hobby a new method and means of flying, just as they have done over the past 70 plus years. Would it really have made sense to include a heli, that has one rotor, but say no to 3 rotored craft, or quad, because it had 2-3 more rotors? I’m sorry, that’s lunacy. The decision to spend money on education etc was a close one, but it was done. Will that kind of funding continue, probably yes. Will membership increase, yes. Will some people quit, absolutely. Will overall membership see any big swing either way, no. They will continue to play a role in, and partner with other entities to promote membership in the AMA, and help craft smart and safe usage guidelines. They will remain the subject matter expert on the issue. Look for a SIG designation, maybe 2015, probably no later than 2016.
I get that some people aren’t happy with the AMA’s involvement at this point; I’m just not sure what is going to be accomplished “fighting” the issue now. I would say it’s 99.9% certain nothing anyone does is going to shift focus on this matter. What percentage of membership is going to need to do something before things change, don’t know. Chances are though if you are in district that voted NO to AMA’s involvement in this; does it make sense to rally the troops to continue to say no? I say no.
Mike
08-08-2015, 07:06 AM
#590
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Actually no..... The "more than $1 million on government relations to keep model aviation free of onerous restrictions and regulations." is, again, collective of all expenditures spent, beginning well before "drones" became a more prominent legislative issue in the last 12-24 months.
08-08-2015, 09:50 AM
#591
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Reality check, fellow flyers. Us old timers, who actually had to develop skills and respect for our fellow modelers, and had self discipline and pride, are through. The new generation of flyers is all about buying an arf, learning to fly it in five minutes, or buying a quad, learning to fly it at the mall, getting bored in the next ten minutes. Spend a few more dollars, make a video. Look at the AMA magazine, all about high tech and nothing for the guys who built the organization. Soon they will realize that this new generation of "modelers" are just kids playing with toys, wont stay in the hobby long, and disregard any rules anyone makes.
08-08-2015, 01:06 PM
#592
I've not read every post in this thread so if this is a duplicate I apologize....
MY concern with the dues increase is not so much the extra money, but the way the money is being spent. It seems there is little accountability with the AMA. I wrote my District VP and the Exe Council and received the same robot response from both. I was not "satisfied" with the response, nor did it make me feel better about the increase. It seems to me the AMA has no interest in the opinion of the members. Was there a hint of such increase prior to the announcement? If there was I didn't see it or hear about it. What better way to do something "unpopular" with the constituents but to do it in secrecy and then drop the bomb on the membership.
AMA Executive Counsel listen up to the membership.
Ken
More here... http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2447309
MY concern with the dues increase is not so much the extra money, but the way the money is being spent. It seems there is little accountability with the AMA. I wrote my District VP and the Exe Council and received the same robot response from both. I was not "satisfied" with the response, nor did it make me feel better about the increase. It seems to me the AMA has no interest in the opinion of the members. Was there a hint of such increase prior to the announcement? If there was I didn't see it or hear about it. What better way to do something "unpopular" with the constituents but to do it in secrecy and then drop the bomb on the membership.
AMA Executive Counsel listen up to the membership.
Ken
More here... http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2447309
08-08-2015, 01:47 PM
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Reality check, fellow flyers. Us old timers, who actually had to develop skills and respect for our fellow modelers, and had self discipline and pride, are through. The new generation of flyers is all about buying an arf, learning to fly it in five minutes, or buying a quad, learning to fly it at the mall, getting bored in the next ten minutes. Spend a few more dollars, make a video. Look at the AMA magazine, all about high tech and nothing for the guys who built the organization. Soon they will realize that this new generation of "modelers" are just kids playing with toys, wont stay in the hobby long, and disregard any rules anyone makes.
08-08-2015, 02:35 PM
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thanks for the suggestion, and I read it. I know where we went, and we still build, still fly, still consider ourselves hobbyists. My point is that the new people coming into the "hobby" just see it as momentary entertainment, hesitate to join, or support clubs or the AMA, and fade away to chase the newest toys. Easy come, easy go. I have paid AMA dues for years and years, and still get the magazine delivered via USPS. But what is in the magazine now? High tech reports on the latest "self-flying" state of the art drone. Oh yeah, crash proof besides, and just glue it together. That's a hobby? Match flying skills with an 8 year old?
08-08-2015, 03:19 PM
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thanks for the suggestion, and I read it. I know where we went, and we still build, still fly, still consider ourselves hobbyists. My point is that the new people coming into the "hobby" just see it as momentary entertainment, hesitate to join, or support clubs or the AMA, and fade away to chase the newest toys. Easy come, easy go. I have paid AMA dues for years and years, and still get the magazine delivered via USPS. But what is in the magazine now? High tech reports on the latest "self-flying" state of the art drone. Oh yeah, crash proof besides, and just glue it together. That's a hobby? Match flying skills with an 8 year old?
08-08-2015, 03:39 PM
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Hey, I see we are on the same page. I am from the east coast, and saw the hobby go through a lot, too, but never like this. The abuse of drones is just beginning, and we all have to admit that the skill level has
become a joke. Buy and fly. And common sense went with it. Abuses and endangering aircraft, traffic, and pedestrians is becoming commonplace.
I saw it coming, bought enough kits to last me a few years, along with some good quality engines and radios, and moved to the middle of nowhere, Tennessee. Built my own airport, surrounded by a buffer of acres of forest, and enjoy the hobby the way it was meant to be. I bother no one, and no one bothers me. Just have to hope Tower Hobbies stays in business as long as I do...........
become a joke. Buy and fly. And common sense went with it. Abuses and endangering aircraft, traffic, and pedestrians is becoming commonplace.
I saw it coming, bought enough kits to last me a few years, along with some good quality engines and radios, and moved to the middle of nowhere, Tennessee. Built my own airport, surrounded by a buffer of acres of forest, and enjoy the hobby the way it was meant to be. I bother no one, and no one bothers me. Just have to hope Tower Hobbies stays in business as long as I do...........
08-08-2015, 04:01 PM
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I'd say so, most everyone on this thread are, just some have different slant on the issue. Well rounded I suppose. Sounds like an idyllic place to fly, I'm envious. Tower should be in business for a long time, I would guess.
08-08-2015, 08:17 PM
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You might find that data on AMA's website or they might provide it if you request it. No offense, I'm into statistical data but something tells me I should be glad I'm not that deep into it.
08-11-2015, 10:57 AM
#600
That's a good catch Dokes, it doesn't reference the drone issue specifically, and the article also addressed the roles and responsibility of the AMA from 2003 forward. 13 years between dues increases. Huh.
I don't suspect that this will change the narrative some will continue to try to put forward, and lay this solely at the feet of the drone issue. No doubt the involvement of a PR firm however was in response to the drone issue though. I don't think the AMA was sufficiently staffed to deal with that from a public relations standpoint. So they let the pros do it, and pros ain't cheap!
I don't suspect that this will change the narrative some will continue to try to put forward, and lay this solely at the feet of the drone issue. No doubt the involvement of a PR firm however was in response to the drone issue though. I don't think the AMA was sufficiently staffed to deal with that from a public relations standpoint. So they let the pros do it, and pros ain't cheap!
