Dues increase coming? 1 million spent on government relations.....
08-17-2015, 03:58 PM
#702
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I flew Helis as far back as the 80's with a GMP Cricket, then a Cobra. I more recently has a coupel of T-Rex 450's
I have been flying 3D since 1999, and started producing 3D gassers in 2006.
I have been flying 3D Foamies for a few years
I Had a Skymaster F-18 since 2004 (picture), sold in 2011 to get the J-10 in this video (talk about technology!).
http://youtu.be/5S5rK60hsCY
I have said it many times: we cannot confuse new technology in Model Aviation with the new hobby that is drone flying.
Last edited by islandflyer; 08-17-2015 at 04:08 PM. Reason: Video not embedding
08-17-2015, 05:14 PM
#703
[QUOTE=islandflyer;12085792]Completely untrue! You need to inform yourself....
I flew Helis as far back as the 80's with a GMP Cricket, then a Cobra. I more recently has a coupel of T-Rex 450's
I have been flying 3D since 1999, and started producing 3D gassers in 2006.
I have been flying 3D Foamies for a few years
I Had a Skymaster F-18 since 2004 (picture), sold in 2011 to get the J-10 in this video (talk about technology!).
http://youtu.be/5S5rK60hsCY
I have said it many times: we cannot confuse new technology in Model Aviation with the new hobby that is drone flying.
[/QUOTe}
One person does not make my statement untrue. Besides Every thing U fly is considered a DRONE by the FAA.
I flew Helis as far back as the 80's with a GMP Cricket, then a Cobra. I more recently has a coupel of T-Rex 450's
I have been flying 3D since 1999, and started producing 3D gassers in 2006.
I have been flying 3D Foamies for a few years
I Had a Skymaster F-18 since 2004 (picture), sold in 2011 to get the J-10 in this video (talk about technology!).
http://youtu.be/5S5rK60hsCY
I have said it many times: we cannot confuse new technology in Model Aviation with the new hobby that is drone flying.
[/QUOTe}
One person does not make my statement untrue. Besides Every thing U fly is considered a DRONE by the FAA.
08-17-2015, 05:32 PM
#705
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Were going into uncharted waters with this whole deal. None of us can compare this to anything that's happened in the past in modelling . I keep seeing comparisons of this and everything under the sun.None of the comparisons are relevant. This one is a game changer.
As far as the dues increase starting 9-14 -2016 I don't thing the average member even knows about the increase. Once they are hit in their wallets than there just may be a backlash.
Mike
As far as the dues increase starting 9-14 -2016 I don't thing the average member even knows about the increase. Once they are hit in their wallets than there just may be a backlash.
Mike
08-17-2015, 05:48 PM
#706
Banned
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You are correct, only in the in the right now part ...
You are obviously a drone advocate.
The reality is that the vast majority of the AMA membership has no activity in drone flying, and we simply do not want to deal with whatever consequences will come from that hobby.
The only to shield against these inevitable consequences is clear and very public separation.
We already see a myriad of negative attention press and public opinion, all coming from drones, and not Aeromodeling.
No need to see the actual drone regulation to know it is coming: not only is it foreseeable, it is actually needed!
The comparison with guns and automobiles makes no sense: the NRA and Automobile lobbies both have very deep pockets, and the AMA is a dwarf in comparison, representing a small group of Model Aviation geeks...
The NRA can sway a senatorial, gubernatorial and even presidential election; the AMA is negligible in the political debate, and we only stands a chance if it modestly sticks to representing our rather non-controversial Aeromodeling Hobby.
You are obviously a drone advocate.
The reality is that the vast majority of the AMA membership has no activity in drone flying, and we simply do not want to deal with whatever consequences will come from that hobby.
The only to shield against these inevitable consequences is clear and very public separation.
We already see a myriad of negative attention press and public opinion, all coming from drones, and not Aeromodeling.
No need to see the actual drone regulation to know it is coming: not only is it foreseeable, it is actually needed!
The comparison with guns and automobiles makes no sense: the NRA and Automobile lobbies both have very deep pockets, and the AMA is a dwarf in comparison, representing a small group of Model Aviation geeks...
The NRA can sway a senatorial, gubernatorial and even presidential election; the AMA is negligible in the political debate, and we only stands a chance if it modestly sticks to representing our rather non-controversial Aeromodeling Hobby.
See how illogical that kind of one size fits all generalization works? Hint: it doesn't.
I've already said I don't fly them, don't own one, not interested in them to any real degree, they just do nothing for me. That being said, I see them as a valid addition to the hobby, as does the national organization that we all belong to. The AMA isn't trying to control the "drone" issue on a national level, they have never said that in any way that I can see. They have tried, and succeeded to some degree, of getting a place at the table as the govt continues to work through this. The almost hysteria and doom and gloom predictions are all wrapped up with conspiracy theories about the goverment, the AMA. I really shouldn't be, but continue to be amazed at the amount of people that think that sticking our head in the sand and trying to ignore drones (obviously hobby level ones), or "ban" them is going to be any better for us in the long run.
I wish the AMA has messaged their approach better, although I can't claim to have read everything they put out, or heard every discussion they had. I would have liked to have seen, and continue to want to see some more clarity on the financials here, and also what the ultimate goal is, and how we can measure success. I don't know that we will see concrete and quantifiable "success" anytime soon. Right now I see the lack of anything bad happening to the hobby as us being on the right track. This is not something that is going to be resolved in a year or two.
08-17-2015, 05:52 PM
#707
Banned
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Perhaps it's a Northeast thang...I've seen two or three clubs with the word "drone" in their titles, all older, well established clubs. The one in the patch was started in the 30's, and took on in part the "drone" name around 1952.
Talk about being ahead of their time!
...I'm a big fan of ARF's and foamies.
08-17-2015, 07:02 PM
#711
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Well, then you are obviously a drone hater, and anti change, and anti progress, and oh ya an AMA hater too.
See how illogical that kind of one size fits all generalization works? Hint: it doesn't.
I've already said I don't fly them, don't own one, not interested in them to any real degree, they just do nothing for me.
See how illogical that kind of one size fits all generalization works? Hint: it doesn't.
I've already said I don't fly them, don't own one, not interested in them to any real degree, they just do nothing for me.
But you certainly are their advocate: you are the most prolific poster in their defense within the AMA here.
I also don't hate them: I wrote many times that I am not anti drone, and they are actually cool when flown responsibly (definitely repeating myself here!).
They just need their own organization (now really sounding like a broken record).
No matter how many time I say the same things, some spin it to make it sound like something else...Yet, I keep repeating the same simple things.
1- The negative perceptions in the press and public opinion are generated by drones, and not traditional model aviation
2- It is only a matter of time before drones (commercial or not) are regulated. It is foreseeable and actually necessary.
3- In anticipation of this, the AMA must distance itself from drone so that drone regulations don't negatively impact the general Model Aviation hobbyists who have been so problem free since the creation of the AMA.
4- The drone operators should create their own organization to address all their concerns that are so specific to their activity, and present specific challenges that really should not affect the majority of AMA members who do not fly them.
08-17-2015, 07:14 PM
#712
Banned
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I did not say you flew them (drones).
But you certainly are their advocate: you are the most prolific poster in their defense within the AMA here.
I also don't hate them: I wrote many times that I am not anti drone, and they are actually cool when flown responsibly (definitely repeating myself here!).
They just need their own organization (now really sounding like a broken record).
No matter how many time I say the same things, some spin it to make it sound like something else...Yet, I keep repeating the same simple things.
1- The negative perceptions in the press and public opinion are generated by drones, and not traditional model aviation
2- It is only a matter of time before drones (commercial or not) are regulated. It is foreseeable and actually necessary.
3- In anticipation of this, the AMA must distance itself from drone so that drone regulations don't negatively impact the general Model Aviation hobbyists who have been so problem free since the creation of the AMA.
4- The drone operators should create their own organization to address all their concerns that are so specific to their activity, and present specific challenges that really should not affect the majority of AMA members who do not fly them.
But you certainly are their advocate: you are the most prolific poster in their defense within the AMA here.
I also don't hate them: I wrote many times that I am not anti drone, and they are actually cool when flown responsibly (definitely repeating myself here!).
They just need their own organization (now really sounding like a broken record).
No matter how many time I say the same things, some spin it to make it sound like something else...Yet, I keep repeating the same simple things.
1- The negative perceptions in the press and public opinion are generated by drones, and not traditional model aviation
2- It is only a matter of time before drones (commercial or not) are regulated. It is foreseeable and actually necessary.
3- In anticipation of this, the AMA must distance itself from drone so that drone regulations don't negatively impact the general Model Aviation hobbyists who have been so problem free since the creation of the AMA.
4- The drone operators should create their own organization to address all their concerns that are so specific to their activity, and present specific challenges that really should not affect the majority of AMA members who do not fly them.
I don't look at my prolific discussion points (lol) as a defense of the AMA or drones as much as I mean to say it's already happened, it's a done deal. They are here, and I don't think anything can be done at this point to stunt or stop the growth of their use, or their inclusion in the hobby. For me, I see it as wasted energy to try to muster the troops to wage a war that will go nowhere. Call it sheeple or naive, that's just what I's believes! The doom and gloom with the govt is just as bad, they are always labled as the bad guy, inneficient, over reaching etc etc. Like lawyers, we love to hate them until we need them. Anyway...carry on. I'm going to start a thread in the AMA forum here to see what went down this past weekend across the country in light of "Model Aviation Day". Wish me luck...it should be interesting.
Love your F-18 btw....so sweet.
08-17-2015, 07:57 PM
#713
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Yes,,,we both might repeat ourselves. I don't look at my prolific discussion points (lol) as a defense of the AMA or drones as much as I mean to say it's already happened, it's a done deal. They are here, and I don't think anything can be done at this point to stunt or stop the growth of their use, or their inclusion in the hobby. For me, I see it as wasted energy to try to muster the troops to wage a war that will go nowhere. Call it sheeple or naive, that's just what I's believes! The doom and gloom with the govt is just as bad, they are always labled as the bad guy, inneficient, over reaching etc etc. Like lawyers, we love to hate them until we need them.
Anyway...carry on. I'm going to start a thread in the AMA forum here to see what went down this past weekend across the country in light of "Model Aviation Day". Wish me luck...it should be interesting.
Love your F-18 btw....so sweet.
I don't look at my prolific discussion points (lol) as a defense of the AMA or drones as much as I mean to say it's already happened, it's a done deal. They are here, and I don't think anything can be done at this point to stunt or stop the growth of their use, or their inclusion in the hobby. For me, I see it as wasted energy to try to muster the troops to wage a war that will go nowhere. Call it sheeple or naive, that's just what I's believes! The doom and gloom with the govt is just as bad, they are always labled as the bad guy, inneficient, over reaching etc etc. Like lawyers, we love to hate them until we need them. Anyway...carry on. I'm going to start a thread in the AMA forum here to see what went down this past weekend across the country in light of "Model Aviation Day". Wish me luck...it should be interesting.
Love your F-18 btw....so sweet.
The "done Deal" only reflects a short one year period of the AMA, resulting for a very close vote last year, as shown in the AMA meeting minutes here: http://www.modelaircraft.org/aboutam...ecminutes.aspx
What these 7 men voted for (against 6), unbeknownst to the general membership and definitely without their approval, certainly did not set an unchangeable course. Even the US constitution, as sacred as it may appear to be, was modified 27 times.
There is nothing sacred about the AMA's decision, and it is not that hard to change, with the right people in place.
What matters is what we (the voting membership) do from here on out to make the change happen, and get the proper VP's in place to ensure that they are primarily focused on representing model aviation, and only model aviation.
08-17-2015, 09:28 PM
#714
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I hope you are being sarcastic like me, if not then that is just wrong. I'm an old geezer and I like all the things you say I shouldn't and I'm not against Quads, just irresponsible operation of them and I kind of think that is what most of this has been about.
08-18-2015, 03:30 AM
#715
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"Of course comparisons are relevant,"
In your opinion. Sorry but I just don't see the connection. This is the first time in the history of model aviation that the hobby has been the target of a ton of bad press along with being negatively viewed by the general public, then toss in the government looking hard at regulating the hobby. Like it or not this whole "drone" mess had opened a big can of worms that our organization is not prepared to deal with. I wish we had the NRA's membership and lobbying power.
As far as the AMA membership being uniformed about the increase from what I've seen they are not. As with almost everything else in life most don't get it till their wallets feel the effect.
Just for grins when was the last time the FAA has posted this about traditional model aviation? This from the FAA website.
August 12- Pilot reports of unmanned aircraft have increased dramatically over the past year, from a total of 238 sightings in all of 2014, to more than 650 by August 9 of this year. The FAA wants to send out a clear message that operating drones around airplanes and helicopters is dangerous and illegal. Unauthorized operators may be subject to stiff fines and criminal charges, including possible jail time.Pilots of a variety of different types of aircraft – including many large, commercial air carriers – reported spotting 16 unmanned aircraft in June of 2014, and 36 the following month. This year, 138 pilots reported seeing drones at altitudes of up to 10,000 feet during the month of June, and another 137 in July.
Meanwhile, firefighters battling wildfire blazes in the western part of the country have been forced to ground their operations on several occasions for safety reasons when they spotted one or more unmanned aircraft in their immediate vicinity.
The FAA will continue to work closely with industry partners through the “Know Before You Fly” campaign to educate unmanned aircraft users about where they can operate within the rules. The agency is also supporting the National Interagency Fire Center’s “If You Fly, We Can’t” efforts to help reduce interference with firefighting operations.
However, the FAA also is working closely with the law enforcement community to identify and investigate unauthorized unmanned aircraft operations. The FAA has levied civil penalties for a number of unauthorized flights in various parts of the country, and has dozens of open enforcement cases.
The FAA encourages the public to report unauthorized drone operations to local law enforcement and to help discourage this dangerous, illegal activity.
"
Mike
In your opinion. Sorry but I just don't see the connection. This is the first time in the history of model aviation that the hobby has been the target of a ton of bad press along with being negatively viewed by the general public, then toss in the government looking hard at regulating the hobby. Like it or not this whole "drone" mess had opened a big can of worms that our organization is not prepared to deal with. I wish we had the NRA's membership and lobbying power.
As far as the AMA membership being uniformed about the increase from what I've seen they are not. As with almost everything else in life most don't get it till their wallets feel the effect.
Just for grins when was the last time the FAA has posted this about traditional model aviation? This from the FAA website.
August 12- Pilot reports of unmanned aircraft have increased dramatically over the past year, from a total of 238 sightings in all of 2014, to more than 650 by August 9 of this year. The FAA wants to send out a clear message that operating drones around airplanes and helicopters is dangerous and illegal. Unauthorized operators may be subject to stiff fines and criminal charges, including possible jail time.Pilots of a variety of different types of aircraft – including many large, commercial air carriers – reported spotting 16 unmanned aircraft in June of 2014, and 36 the following month. This year, 138 pilots reported seeing drones at altitudes of up to 10,000 feet during the month of June, and another 137 in July.
Meanwhile, firefighters battling wildfire blazes in the western part of the country have been forced to ground their operations on several occasions for safety reasons when they spotted one or more unmanned aircraft in their immediate vicinity.
The FAA will continue to work closely with industry partners through the “Know Before You Fly” campaign to educate unmanned aircraft users about where they can operate within the rules. The agency is also supporting the National Interagency Fire Center’s “If You Fly, We Can’t” efforts to help reduce interference with firefighting operations.
However, the FAA also is working closely with the law enforcement community to identify and investigate unauthorized unmanned aircraft operations. The FAA has levied civil penalties for a number of unauthorized flights in various parts of the country, and has dozens of open enforcement cases.
The FAA encourages the public to report unauthorized drone operations to local law enforcement and to help discourage this dangerous, illegal activity.
"
Mike
Last edited by rcmiket; 08-18-2015 at 04:11 AM.
08-18-2015, 04:21 AM
#716
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O/K, talk about timing and irony. A moment of levity perhaps. I came across this today talking about the drone issue with one of my flying buddies and club mates.
Perhaps it's a Northeast thang...I've seen two or three clubs with the word "drone" in their titles, all older, well established clubs. The one in the patch was started in the 30's, and took on in part the "drone" name around 1952.
Talk about being ahead of their time!
Perhaps it's a Northeast thang...I've seen two or three clubs with the word "drone" in their titles, all older, well established clubs. The one in the patch was started in the 30's, and took on in part the "drone" name around 1952.
Talk about being ahead of their time!
No more visionary than the APPLE recording studio was about the APPLE brand of computers that decades created the McIntosh computers. No one knew just five years ago that the Aeromodeling would find itself in the midst of this drone mess.
We sure wish the AMA leaders could have been more visionary, and could have foreseen that their attempt at Drone seduction would turn into such a toxic affair!
08-18-2015, 04:53 AM
#717
I doubt there is a person in the USA that watches any form of national news that doesn't know it ILLEGAL to fly any toy airplane with in a 5 mile radius of a towered airport, or more than 400' AGL. It's been on the news way too much for, especially those flying Quads (Drones) not to know it.Just an inquiry of all the: Pilot reports of unmanned aircraft have increased dramatically over the past year, from a total of 238 sightings in all of 2014, to more than 650 by August 9 of this year. How many people have been prosecuted or even been arrested or even Identified?
08-18-2015, 05:50 AM
#718
I did not say you flew them (drones).
But you certainly are their advocate: you are the most prolific poster in their defense within the AMA here.
I also don't hate them: I wrote many times that I am not anti drone, and they are actually cool when flown responsibly (definitely repeating myself here!).
They just need their own organization (now really sounding like a broken record).
No matter how many time I say the same things, some spin it to make it sound like something else...Yet, I keep repeating the same simple things.
1- The negative perceptions in the press and public opinion are generated by drones, and not traditional model aviation
2- It is only a matter of time before drones (commercial or not) are regulated. It is foreseeable and actually necessary.
If that's the case then why the concern?
3- In anticipation of this, the AMA must distance itself from drone so that drone regulations don't negatively impact the general Model Aviation hobbyists who have been so problem free since the creation of the AMA.
I thought the FAA has already made or alluded to a clear delineation to model aviation and non-model aviation activities indicating that FPV (even within LOS) was not considered model aviation by them.
4- The drone operators should create their own organization to address all their concerns that are so specific to their activity, and present specific challenges that really should not affect the majority of AMA members who do not fly them.
I'm not necessarily sure this is a good idea. Do we really want another organization to compete with for the same airspace? What happens if they create their own organization and end up with more members, more $$$, and more political clout than the AMA has?
But you certainly are their advocate: you are the most prolific poster in their defense within the AMA here.
I also don't hate them: I wrote many times that I am not anti drone, and they are actually cool when flown responsibly (definitely repeating myself here!).
They just need their own organization (now really sounding like a broken record).
No matter how many time I say the same things, some spin it to make it sound like something else...Yet, I keep repeating the same simple things.
1- The negative perceptions in the press and public opinion are generated by drones, and not traditional model aviation
2- It is only a matter of time before drones (commercial or not) are regulated. It is foreseeable and actually necessary.
If that's the case then why the concern?
3- In anticipation of this, the AMA must distance itself from drone so that drone regulations don't negatively impact the general Model Aviation hobbyists who have been so problem free since the creation of the AMA.
I thought the FAA has already made or alluded to a clear delineation to model aviation and non-model aviation activities indicating that FPV (even within LOS) was not considered model aviation by them.
4- The drone operators should create their own organization to address all their concerns that are so specific to their activity, and present specific challenges that really should not affect the majority of AMA members who do not fly them.
I'm not necessarily sure this is a good idea. Do we really want another organization to compete with for the same airspace? What happens if they create their own organization and end up with more members, more $$$, and more political clout than the AMA has?
08-18-2015, 06:00 AM
#719
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"I'm not necessarily sure this is a good idea. Do we really want another organization to compete with for the same airspace? What happens if they create their own organization and end up with more members, more $$$, and more political clout than the AMA has?"
That will never happen. The attempts so far to bring the "new crowd" fold has not worked if it were the numbers proving that would be available. Can't organize those who do not wish to be organized.
Mike
That will never happen. The attempts so far to bring the "new crowd" fold has not worked if it were the numbers proving that would be available. Can't organize those who do not wish to be organized.
Mike
08-18-2015, 06:09 AM
#720
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
"I'm not necessarily sure this is a good idea. Do we really want another organization to compete with for the same airspace? What happens if they create their own organization and end up with more members, more $$$, and more political clout than the AMA has?"
That will never happen. The attempts so far to bring the "new crowd" fold has not worked if it were the numbers proving that would be available. Can't organize those who do not wish to be organized.
Mike
That will never happen. The attempts so far to bring the "new crowd" fold has not worked if it were the numbers proving that would be available. Can't organize those who do not wish to be organized.
Mike
Look for an evenual SIG designation for sUAS. I suspect this SIG will be the sole AMA group representing AMA FPV, Multirotor and Drone racing members.
Exciting times eh?
08-18-2015, 06:12 AM
#721
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
Indeed, the NEADS was founded in 1952, a MODEL AIRPLANE club that simply coincidentally had the word drone in its name....
No more visionary than the APPLE recording studio was about the APPLE brand of computers that decades created the McIntosh computers. No one knew just five years ago that the Aeromodeling would find itself in the midst of this drone mess.
We sure wish the AMA leaders could have been more visionary, and could have foreseen that their attempt at Drone seduction would turn into such a toxic affair!
No more visionary than the APPLE recording studio was about the APPLE brand of computers that decades created the McIntosh computers. No one knew just five years ago that the Aeromodeling would find itself in the midst of this drone mess.
We sure wish the AMA leaders could have been more visionary, and could have foreseen that their attempt at Drone seduction would turn into such a toxic affair!
jeez....tough crowd...
08-18-2015, 06:25 AM
#722
"I'm not necessarily sure this is a good idea. Do we really want another organization to compete with for the same airspace? What happens if they create their own organization and end up with more members, more $$$, and more political clout than the AMA has?"
That will never happen. The attempts so far to bring the "new crowd" fold has not worked if it were the numbers proving that would be available. Can't organize those who do not wish to be organized.
Mike
That will never happen. The attempts so far to bring the "new crowd" fold has not worked if it were the numbers proving that would be available. Can't organize those who do not wish to be organized.
Mike
Never say never....
08-18-2015, 06:29 AM
#723
Originally Posted by HoundDog 
I'll bet that those that condemn Quads are the same people that don't like Choppers, 3D, Foamies, Jets, Ect. OH I for got the O'l Gezzers that don't like women and kids at the field.
08-18-2015, 07:11 AM
#724
Looks like these guys might join AMA for the Insurance. Who Knows maybe they all ready are AMA members.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGlBLBwvFRo
Added: Just did a U-Tube serch on Quads FPV Building Racing and there must be a million videos.
Looks like the future of Quads is wide open. Think I just might get into at least FPV First from the cockpit of my planes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGlBLBwvFRo
Added: Just did a U-Tube serch on Quads FPV Building Racing and there must be a million videos.
Looks like the future of Quads is wide open. Think I just might get into at least FPV First from the cockpit of my planes.
Last edited by HoundDog; 08-18-2015 at 07:49 AM.
