Dues increase coming? 1 million spent on government relations.....
08-22-2015, 07:43 PM
#877
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. Unreal
08-22-2015, 08:27 PM
#878
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I agree completely. One area where I really think the AMA is lacking is in the guidance, or lack thereof, it provides to clubs on how to run a successful club. Running a successful club is no easy task and it doesn't happen by accident. People skills are critical to running a club and I've seen all too often where clubs suffer from poor communication and a lack of mentoring other members. I've also seen where officers are control freaks and refuse to delegate tasks to others or let others assume responsibility. A good leader will gladly mentor and involve others in the operation of their club. Just because a club has officers doesn't mean the officers have to do everything, it's also about mentoring the next officers to they have a head start and don't have to reinvent the wheel.
08-22-2015, 08:49 PM
#879
The AMA has a lot of stuff on their website on running a club but as far as I can tell, nothing on the politics of running a club and I'm not so sure that would be that beneficial. Every club regardless of the sport/hobby has it's share of control freaks, terrible people skills, bad administrative skills and so on. These folks drift in and out of power and co-mingle with the opposites of the world, seems to balance out as I see it. You are correct, a good leader will mentor and involve but you don't always get that in officers and that is a shame but at least they care enough to involve themselves and I'll never fault a volunteer whatever his shortcomings may be.
08-23-2015, 03:58 AM
#881
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If your club has issues the AMA cannot help you. Your choice is step up find the right people and get it back on track or live with what you have.
It's just that simple.
What I do find funny is I get into more squabbles in the AMA forums than I ever do at the field.
Mike
08-23-2015, 04:48 AM
#882
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
Those skills cannot be taught. You either can play well with others or you can't. Our board has been in place for almost 10 years and our club is rock solid our events are well attended along with being profitable. Our Charity events give our members a feeling of giving back. As a board member I'm extremely proud of our members. At one point we had no field and we were losing members all due to bad leadership along with the dreaded club politics so many clubs suffer from. Six guys turned it around rallied the troops and we have never looked back.
If your club has issues the AMA cannot help you. Your choice is step up find the right people and get it back on track or live with what you have.
It's just that simple.
What I do find funny is I get into more squabbles in the AMA forums than I ever do at the field.
Mike
If your club has issues the AMA cannot help you. Your choice is step up find the right people and get it back on track or live with what you have.
It's just that simple.
What I do find funny is I get into more squabbles in the AMA forums than I ever do at the field.
Mike
Good thing you pointed out we're not "bros" though. Yeesh.
08-23-2015, 05:14 AM
#883
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Mike
Last edited by rcmiket; 08-23-2015 at 05:16 AM.
08-23-2015, 05:41 AM
#885
Join Date: Jun 2004
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That is a pretty well documented fact. Of course, a couple of guys here would want to provide numbers, and maybe addresses, phone number, SS numbers to document this fact....
Bottom line is I have flown at many different locations in a few of different states, spoken to many of our customers, and owners of major R/C companies: only one has been an advocate for AMA advocating for drones and adopting an inclusive policy; another has mixed feelings and not yet certain on what should be done; all the rest are unequivocally against this inclusion.
I used to fly at a City and County site in Hawaii that, per City and County decision did not require club membership, or AMA insurance. Result: the majority did not join AMA!
The majority of drones fly anywhere but R/C flying fields; especially if they ever found out that they might have to follow some rules.
Most drones have not and will not join AMA, and AMA is spending a lot of our money advocating for them. Waste of money on a very large number of people who create the overwhelming majority of the issues that we hear and read about in the news.
Nothing in the mostly pointless bloviating of the last few pages has done anything to sway my position (supported by most of the people I have spoken with): the AMA needs to step away from drones, and focus on what the paid membership wants them to do.
08-23-2015, 07:06 AM
#887
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
Most members join AMA because it is required to in order to fly at a club.
That is a pretty well documented fact. Of course, a couple of guys here would want to provide numbers, and maybe addresses, phone number, SS numbers to document this fact....
Bottom line is I have flown at many different locations in a few of different states, spoken to many of our customers, and owners of major R/C companies: only one has been an advocate for AMA advocating for drones and adopting an inclusive policy; another has mixed feelings and not yet certain on what should be done; all the rest are unequivocally against this inclusion.
I used to fly at a City and County site in Hawaii that, per City and County decision did not require club membership, or AMA insurance. Result: the majority did not join AMA!
The majority of drones fly anywhere but R/C flying fields; especially if they ever found out that they might have to follow some rules.
Most drones have not and will not join AMA, and AMA is spending a lot of our money advocating for them. Waste of money on a very large number of people who create the overwhelming majority of the issues that we hear and read about in the news.
Nothing in the mostly pointless bloviating of the last few pages has done anything to sway my position (supported by most of the people I have spoken with): the AMA needs to step away from drones, and focus on what the paid membership wants them to do.
That is a pretty well documented fact. Of course, a couple of guys here would want to provide numbers, and maybe addresses, phone number, SS numbers to document this fact....
Bottom line is I have flown at many different locations in a few of different states, spoken to many of our customers, and owners of major R/C companies: only one has been an advocate for AMA advocating for drones and adopting an inclusive policy; another has mixed feelings and not yet certain on what should be done; all the rest are unequivocally against this inclusion.
I used to fly at a City and County site in Hawaii that, per City and County decision did not require club membership, or AMA insurance. Result: the majority did not join AMA!
The majority of drones fly anywhere but R/C flying fields; especially if they ever found out that they might have to follow some rules.
Most drones have not and will not join AMA, and AMA is spending a lot of our money advocating for them. Waste of money on a very large number of people who create the overwhelming majority of the issues that we hear and read about in the news.
Nothing in the mostly pointless bloviating of the last few pages has done anything to sway my position (supported by most of the people I have spoken with): the AMA needs to step away from drones, and focus on what the paid membership wants them to do.
08-23-2015, 07:13 AM
#888
Those skills cannot be taught.
That very thought is the problem. Leadership skills can be learned. The question is whether people are willing to learn. I realize this is a significant challenge (just look at all the closed minded posts in this thread), but it can be done.
You either can play well with others or you can't. Our board has been in place for almost 10 years and our club is rock solid our events are well attended along with being profitable. Our Charity events give our members a feeling of giving back. As a board member I'm extremely proud of our members. At one point we had no field and we were losing members all due to bad leadership along with the dreaded club politics so many clubs suffer from. Six guys turned it around rallied the troops and we have never looked back.
Glad your club turned it around and is doing well. What's being done to mentor individuals to replaced any of those six key members when the time comes?
If your club has issues the AMA cannot help you. Your choice is step up find the right people and get it back on track or live with what you have. It's just that simple.
Managing club politics is not the role of the AMA.
What I do find funny is I get into more squabbles in the AMA forums than I ever do at the field.
Same here.
Mike
That very thought is the problem. Leadership skills can be learned. The question is whether people are willing to learn. I realize this is a significant challenge (just look at all the closed minded posts in this thread), but it can be done.
You either can play well with others or you can't. Our board has been in place for almost 10 years and our club is rock solid our events are well attended along with being profitable. Our Charity events give our members a feeling of giving back. As a board member I'm extremely proud of our members. At one point we had no field and we were losing members all due to bad leadership along with the dreaded club politics so many clubs suffer from. Six guys turned it around rallied the troops and we have never looked back.
Glad your club turned it around and is doing well. What's being done to mentor individuals to replaced any of those six key members when the time comes?
If your club has issues the AMA cannot help you. Your choice is step up find the right people and get it back on track or live with what you have. It's just that simple.
Managing club politics is not the role of the AMA.
What I do find funny is I get into more squabbles in the AMA forums than I ever do at the field.
Same here.
Mike
08-23-2015, 07:54 AM
#889
Figure this one a long time R/C and full scale friend moved up north after retirement and found a club in the Rice Lake area of Wisconsin. He came down for a family reunion this week end and told us of these two clubs. One he frequents is about an hours drive from his home and is an AMA field Really nice with an inclosed building and nice grass field. Some 37 members in all. 20 minutes from his home is a much better Private strip with century fences for the pilots and spectators bleachers ect The place has 2 car tracks too. When ever he stops by to fly, there is no one there. He's never seen anyone there flying. It's all free no yearly dues or AMA required. Go figure why it isn't well supported.
08-23-2015, 08:05 AM
#890
Most members join AMA because it is required to in order to fly at a club.
That is a pretty well documented fact. Of course, a couple of guys here would want to provide numbers, and maybe addresses, phone number, SS numbers to document this fact....
Bottom line is I have flown at many different locations in a few of different states, spoken to many of our customers, and owners of major R/C companies: only one has been an advocate for AMA advocating for drones and adopting an inclusive policy; another has mixed feelings and not yet certain on what should be done; all the rest are unequivocally against this inclusion.
I used to fly at a City and County site in Hawaii that, per City and County decision did not require club membership, or AMA insurance. Result: the majority did not join AMA!
The majority of drones fly anywhere but R/C flying fields; especially if they ever found out that they might have to follow some rules.
Most drones have not and will not join AMA, and AMA is spending a lot of our money advocating for them. Waste of money on a very large number of people who create the overwhelming majority of the issues that we hear and read about in the news.
Nothing in the mostly pointless bloviating of the last few pages has done anything to sway my position (supported by most of the people I have spoken with): the AMA needs to step away from drones, and focus on what the paid membership wants them to do.
That is a pretty well documented fact. Of course, a couple of guys here would want to provide numbers, and maybe addresses, phone number, SS numbers to document this fact....
Bottom line is I have flown at many different locations in a few of different states, spoken to many of our customers, and owners of major R/C companies: only one has been an advocate for AMA advocating for drones and adopting an inclusive policy; another has mixed feelings and not yet certain on what should be done; all the rest are unequivocally against this inclusion.
I used to fly at a City and County site in Hawaii that, per City and County decision did not require club membership, or AMA insurance. Result: the majority did not join AMA!
The majority of drones fly anywhere but R/C flying fields; especially if they ever found out that they might have to follow some rules.
Most drones have not and will not join AMA, and AMA is spending a lot of our money advocating for them. Waste of money on a very large number of people who create the overwhelming majority of the issues that we hear and read about in the news.
Nothing in the mostly pointless bloviating of the last few pages has done anything to sway my position (supported by most of the people I have spoken with): the AMA needs to step away from drones, and focus on what the paid membership wants them to do.
08-23-2015, 08:05 AM
#891
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Example of club politics. My club is very progressive in almost all arena's, proactive with the community, cooperative within ourselves, support our fellow members in their efforts by mentoring, I could go on, but we fall woefully short in attracting new blood into the hobby. Sure, somebody stops by the field and shows an interest and we all encourage and advise but the club has no program in place to attract people into the hobby, only after you take the first step does the membership show an interest in a newbie and I have to say they can be very supportive on the mechanics but there is no formal or even cursory training program in place on flying skills and that has discouraged many a would be pilot. Sadly this shortcoming will likely not be resolved due to internal resistance. Is this a soft skill issue? Of course, and the AMA discusses this very subject at length and yet it does no good with our club and likely many other clubs around it's realm of influence. This is not an AMA issue, rather it is something we as a club have to resolve if we wish to promote the sport, the soft skill level is there, but it is not all that refined at this point in our evolution. I hope I have not lost you with this winded response, but I thought the observation important.
08-23-2015, 08:07 AM
#892
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Those skills cannot be taught. You either can play well with others or you can't. Our board has been in place for almost 10 years and our club is rock solid our events are well attended along with being profitable. Our Charity events give our members a feeling of giving back. As a board member I'm extremely proud of our members. At one point we had no field and we were losing members all due to bad leadership along with the dreaded club politics so many clubs suffer from. Six guys turned it around rallied the troops and we have never looked back.
If your club has issues the AMA cannot help you. Your choice is step up find the right people and get it back on track or live with what you have.
It's just that simple.
What I do find funny is I get into more squabbles in the AMA forums than I ever do at the field.
Mike
If your club has issues the AMA cannot help you. Your choice is step up find the right people and get it back on track or live with what you have.
It's just that simple.
What I do find funny is I get into more squabbles in the AMA forums than I ever do at the field.
Mike
08-23-2015, 08:08 AM
#893
08-23-2015, 08:26 AM
#895
That is what I meant in my "politics" comment. Soft skills are very important but I'm not sure the AMA is the best place to get that training. Some people have it naturally and on the other side of the spectrum, others will never have it no matter what, soft skills training is for the rest of us that fall between and most of that is/should be acquired in home,school, some employers teach it, the power of the peers or better known as the school of hard knocks are all good places to develop that, not the AMA. Heck it is hard enough for people to read the stuff on there now, throw in the touchy/feely stuff and you may really lose them. This is just my opinion.
Example of club politics. My club is very progressive in almost all arena's, proactive with the community, cooperative within ourselves, support our fellow members in their efforts by mentoring, I could go on, but we fall woefully short in attracting new blood into the hobby. Sure, somebody stops by the field and shows an interest and we all encourage and advise but the club has no program in place to attract people into the hobby, only after you take the first step does the membership show an interest in a newbie and I have to say they can be very supportive on the mechanics but there is no formal or even cursory training program in place on flying skills and that has discouraged many a would be pilot. Sadly this shortcoming will likely not be resolved due to internal resistance. Is this a soft skill issue? Of course, and the AMA discusses this very subject at length and yet it does no good with our club and likely many other clubs around it's realm of influence. This is not an AMA issue, rather it is something we as a club have to resolve if we wish to promote the sport, the soft skill level is there, but it is not all that refined at this point in our evolution. I hope I have not lost you with this winded response, but I thought the observation important.
Example of club politics. My club is very progressive in almost all arena's, proactive with the community, cooperative within ourselves, support our fellow members in their efforts by mentoring, I could go on, but we fall woefully short in attracting new blood into the hobby. Sure, somebody stops by the field and shows an interest and we all encourage and advise but the club has no program in place to attract people into the hobby, only after you take the first step does the membership show an interest in a newbie and I have to say they can be very supportive on the mechanics but there is no formal or even cursory training program in place on flying skills and that has discouraged many a would be pilot. Sadly this shortcoming will likely not be resolved due to internal resistance. Is this a soft skill issue? Of course, and the AMA discusses this very subject at length and yet it does no good with our club and likely many other clubs around it's realm of influence. This is not an AMA issue, rather it is something we as a club have to resolve if we wish to promote the sport, the soft skill level is there, but it is not all that refined at this point in our evolution. I hope I have not lost you with this winded response, but I thought the observation important.
Perhaps your club could consider purchasing a club trainer and have a designated training night during the flying season, or have a buddy system for new potential members to keep them engaged. Lots of easy ideas here.
Last edited by Chris P. Bacon; 08-23-2015 at 08:28 AM.
08-23-2015, 09:15 AM
#897
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
You can say that again, again. 
Take a step back, if possible, and look at the comments from those talking about anger, and making comments about "well I wouldn't want you in my club etc", and calling other people names like troll, all because they don't agree with them. Those are not coming from me, nor most of the people that have made comments here, just a select few.
RCKen noted in this or another thread about things like this probably not happening if everyone was sitting together flying airplanes at a field. Typing on a keyboard to nameless and faceless people for the most part is pretty different than face to face. It's easier to take umbrage to a comment in writing and type a response back, not quite the same in person.I haven't really seen anyone here I wouldn't welcome in to fly at the club I fly at, and I'm sure the conversation might have the same substantive information and talking points, but lack what might be perceived as animus.
Take a step back, if possible, and look at the comments from those talking about anger, and making comments about "well I wouldn't want you in my club etc", and calling other people names like troll, all because they don't agree with them. Those are not coming from me, nor most of the people that have made comments here, just a select few.
RCKen noted in this or another thread about things like this probably not happening if everyone was sitting together flying airplanes at a field. Typing on a keyboard to nameless and faceless people for the most part is pretty different than face to face. It's easier to take umbrage to a comment in writing and type a response back, not quite the same in person.I haven't really seen anyone here I wouldn't welcome in to fly at the club I fly at, and I'm sure the conversation might have the same substantive information and talking points, but lack what might be perceived as animus.
Last edited by porcia83; 08-23-2015 at 04:37 PM. Reason: added not...
08-23-2015, 09:36 AM
#898
You can say that again, again.
Take a step back, if possible, and look at the comments from those talking about anger, and making comments about "well I wouldn't want you in my club etc", and calling other people names like troll, all because they don't agree with them. Those are coming from me, nor most of the people that have made comments here, just a select few.
RCKen noted in this or another thread about things like this probably not happening if everyone was sitting together flying airplanes at a field. Typing on a keyboard to nameless and faceless people for the most part is pretty different than face to face. It's easier to take umbrage to a comment in writing and type a response back, not quite the same in person.I haven't really seen anyone here I wouldn't welcome in to fly at the club I fly at, and I'm sure the conversation might have the same substantive information and talking points, but lack what might be perceived as animus.
Take a step back, if possible, and look at the comments from those talking about anger, and making comments about "well I wouldn't want you in my club etc", and calling other people names like troll, all because they don't agree with them. Those are coming from me, nor most of the people that have made comments here, just a select few.
RCKen noted in this or another thread about things like this probably not happening if everyone was sitting together flying airplanes at a field. Typing on a keyboard to nameless and faceless people for the most part is pretty different than face to face. It's easier to take umbrage to a comment in writing and type a response back, not quite the same in person.I haven't really seen anyone here I wouldn't welcome in to fly at the club I fly at, and I'm sure the conversation might have the same substantive information and talking points, but lack what might be perceived as animus.
All I ask is that others here take a step back as well. I have been repeatedly accused of all kinds of thing on this thread by those that are just as guilty of the same things. If we can't grow up enough to move past these things, admit our shortcomings and engage in positive, relevant discussions in order to move forward and find solutions to the issues we face (at least we all agree we have issues!), our banter here is nothing more than just that, childish banter.
Now, let's see who else is man enough to own up and acknowledge their part in this debacle and move on.
Regards,
Astro
08-23-2015, 03:02 PM
#899
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I don't know the level of resistance within your club regarding this issue, but in my experience as a club officer I've found the vast majority of club members to be fair and reasonable. The resistance in my club comes from a small number of vocal members. When it comes time to vote on a club issue the resistance is always outnumbered. The key to getting a new plan or program approved by the membership is being well prepared and well thought out and I cannot emphasize this enough . Talk is cheap, it's the vote by the membership that counts.
Perhaps your club could consider purchasing a club trainer and have a designated training night during the flying season, or have a buddy system for new potential members to keep them engaged. Lots of easy ideas here.
Perhaps your club could consider purchasing a club trainer and have a designated training night during the flying season, or have a buddy system for new potential members to keep them engaged. Lots of easy ideas here.
08-23-2015, 03:42 PM
#900
Of the 5 clubs to which i pay dues 2 have some sort of training. My summer club has a very informal pilot training system where one of our members does 90% of the training His choice. The Winter club in AZ has 200 to 300 members Depending on time of year. We have 12 or 13 instructors and a formal training manual that a student gets. We also instituted a program where all the instructors are all INTRO Pilots. the club says that anyone can fly with an intro pilot With out joining the club or AMA for 60 days. The big problem is 11 of the Intro Pilots and the chief Instructor still work, so that leaves only 2 of that are retired. So Because the other guy only teaches ounce in a while the bulk of the instruction the last couple of winters fell to me. I had as many as 14 students at a time. Several were not too dedicated so didn't go far, others soloed and went on to join the AMA and the club. So to some up There a lot of different scenarios clubs can follow, even offering your self to help anyone that takes an interest no mater how much or little.
We have a couple of students at m summer club that will never get it but with the new SAFE Techonolegy they are having FUN (Sort of) and that what really maters.
We have a couple of students at m summer club that will never get it but with the new SAFE Techonolegy they are having FUN (Sort of) and that what really maters.
Last edited by HoundDog; 08-23-2015 at 03:46 PM.