Dues increase coming? 1 million spent on government relations.....
09-04-2015, 05:20 AM
#1101
This whole thing just continues to go in a viscious circle with you. I'm not sure you understnad what the difference is between the AMA, FAA, and how the whole process works. This clearly explains why you have no clue what the AMA is doing and the reason for the dues increase.
09-04-2015, 05:45 AM
#1103
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AC 91-57A was released by the FAA on September 02, 2015. It replaces AC 91-57 which was released on June 09, 1981. It's not a reminder.
This whole thing just continues to go in a viscious circle with you. I'm not sure you understnad what the difference is between the AMA, FAA, and how the whole process works. This clearly explains why you have no clue what the AMA is doing and the reason for the dues increase.
This whole thing just continues to go in a viscious circle with you. I'm not sure you understnad what the difference is between the AMA, FAA, and how the whole process works. This clearly explains why you have no clue what the AMA is doing and the reason for the dues increase.
(1) The aircraft is flown strictly for hobby or recreational use;
(2) The aircraft operates in accordance with a community-based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization (CBO);
(3) The aircraft is limited to not more than 55 pounds, unless otherwise certified through a design, construction, inspection, flight test, and operational safety program administered by a CBO;
(4) The aircraft operates in a manner that does not interfere with, and gives way to, any manned aircraft; and
(5) When flown within 5 miles of an airport, the operator of the model aircraft provides the airport operator or the airport air traffic control tower (when an air traffic facility is located at the airport) with prior notice of the operation. Model aircraft operators flying from a permanent location within 5 miles of an airport should establish a mutually agreed upon operating procedure with the airport operator and the airport air traffic control tower (when an air traffic facility is located at the airport).
d.Public
But I have no clue.............................................. ....
Mike
Last edited by rcmiket; 09-04-2015 at 05:51 AM.
09-04-2015, 05:58 AM
#1104
If you don't understand the difference between the AMA and the FAA I'm not going to bother to try and exaplain it. Sorry to be blunt, but after 45 pages in this thread I'm not sure you've leanred anything about the issue at had or how the processes work.
09-04-2015, 06:18 AM
#1105
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Isn't this recent document as positive thing ?
For the life of me I have not clue what your talking about.
Mike
09-04-2015, 06:19 AM
#1106
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I am not interested in arguing or justifying anything with the self appointed all-in-one prosecutors/judges/experts here.
A few of us have stated our positions based on observations and facts that are well documented by our long time continued involvement in model aviation, both as hobbyists and professionals.
I will continue to recommend that the AMA should refocus on Model Aviation, and should distance itself from DRONES.
Based on the many events I attend in different states, and the many conversations I have had with many members there, my position is reflecting the majority of the modelers attending these events. A few of them have drones, but with the exception of two, all feel that drones should have their own organization as Drone are not the same as Model Aviation: one of the two runs a Multirotor Forum who obviously supports it first; the other is just "undecided" on what AMA should do.
This thread includes but a tiny group of individuals. I don't know how many are reading but just a small handful are posting.
It is even ironic that one of the most prolific posters here is ridiculing the fact that it got as long as it has: remove his own posts, and it might be 30% shorter!
A few of us have stated our positions based on observations and facts that are well documented by our long time continued involvement in model aviation, both as hobbyists and professionals.
I will continue to recommend that the AMA should refocus on Model Aviation, and should distance itself from DRONES.
Based on the many events I attend in different states, and the many conversations I have had with many members there, my position is reflecting the majority of the modelers attending these events. A few of them have drones, but with the exception of two, all feel that drones should have their own organization as Drone are not the same as Model Aviation: one of the two runs a Multirotor Forum who obviously supports it first; the other is just "undecided" on what AMA should do.
This thread includes but a tiny group of individuals. I don't know how many are reading but just a small handful are posting.
It is even ironic that one of the most prolific posters here is ridiculing the fact that it got as long as it has: remove his own posts, and it might be 30% shorter!
09-04-2015, 06:19 AM
#1107
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Thanks Duncman,
Yes, all the news out there isn't bad. There will be folks coming into the AMA, and to clubs who are strictly MR pilots. We've had two join AMA and our club now. The FPV racing is really catching on too, it's becoming very popular. If this method of flying brings more people into the AMA, or clubs, or even the hobby itself this is a good thing.
Not trying to be obtuse on the other point about e-mails, but how did the guy get everyone's e-mail, or was it just a select group of people? I know the AMA has a list of clubs within a georgraphic area and you can contact one person from the club, just not sure how someone would get a hold of e-mail addresses for everyone in their district. If the incumbent used AMA resources that would seem to be an unfair advantage over someone looking to run against them (not saying they did that here).
Yes, all the news out there isn't bad. There will be folks coming into the AMA, and to clubs who are strictly MR pilots. We've had two join AMA and our club now. The FPV racing is really catching on too, it's becoming very popular. If this method of flying brings more people into the AMA, or clubs, or even the hobby itself this is a good thing.
Not trying to be obtuse on the other point about e-mails, but how did the guy get everyone's e-mail, or was it just a select group of people? I know the AMA has a list of clubs within a georgraphic area and you can contact one person from the club, just not sure how someone would get a hold of e-mail addresses for everyone in their district. If the incumbent used AMA resources that would seem to be an unfair advantage over someone looking to run against them (not saying they did that here).
09-04-2015, 07:45 AM
#1108
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AMA has an optional request asking for your e-mail address, I gave it with the limitation it be used for AMA business only and not as an advertising platform. With that in mind I would be led to assume that Mr. Tougas acquired it from AMA as official business. I would also think it fair that AMA make those same e-mails available to those running for that position that are not a member of the AMA hierarchy as Mr. Tougas is. If I were running for VP and was not granted the same access as the incumbent I would be a raising a fuss on every forum out there, the likes of which would be a source of great envy with even the most militant. It is okay with me to be solicitude in a cyber manner rather than receive the same solicitation by USPS, there are far more electrons in the world than trees and trees are much nicer and electrons are resolved with the "delete/trash" button.
Excellent post and food for thought on this.
Mike
09-04-2015, 08:46 AM
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09-04-2015, 12:32 PM
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I am not interested in arguing or justifying anything with the self appointed all-in-one prosecutors/judges/experts here.
A few of us have stated our positions based on observations and facts that are well documented by our long time continued involvement in model aviation, both as hobbyists and professionals.
I will continue to recommend that the AMA should refocus on Model Aviation, and should distance itself from DRONES.
Based on the many events I attend in different states, and the many conversations I have had with many members there, my position is reflecting the majority of the modelers attending these events. A few of them have drones, but with the exception of two, all feel that drones should have their own organization as Drone are not the same as Model Aviation: one of the two runs a Multirotor Forum who obviously supports it first; the other is just "undecided" on what AMA should do.
This thread includes but a tiny group of individuals. I don't know how many are reading but just a small handful are posting.
It is even ironic that one of the most prolific posters here is ridiculing the fact that it got as long as it has: remove his own posts, and it might be 30% shorter!
A few of us have stated our positions based on observations and facts that are well documented by our long time continued involvement in model aviation, both as hobbyists and professionals.
I will continue to recommend that the AMA should refocus on Model Aviation, and should distance itself from DRONES.
Based on the many events I attend in different states, and the many conversations I have had with many members there, my position is reflecting the majority of the modelers attending these events. A few of them have drones, but with the exception of two, all feel that drones should have their own organization as Drone are not the same as Model Aviation: one of the two runs a Multirotor Forum who obviously supports it first; the other is just "undecided" on what AMA should do.
This thread includes but a tiny group of individuals. I don't know how many are reading but just a small handful are posting.
It is even ironic that one of the most prolific posters here is ridiculing the fact that it got as long as it has: remove his own posts, and it might be 30% shorter!
09-04-2015, 01:25 PM
#1112
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With all respect. I come into contact with a lot of RC'ers in every facet of the hobby and I have never heard even a whisper of a suggestion the Drone folks branch off into their own organization. I made a post earlier on this forum about our club bringing in 15 drone pilots, that is a possible $1,875 initiation fee plus annual dues of $750.00 a year and then they want to hold competitions with the proceeds going to the club, and they won't even put wear and tear on our runway, added benefit of AMA membership. Where in the world would the logic be to turn them away by telling them they don't fall into the realm of Model Aviation when all the while the basic definition of Model Aviation speaks directly to Drones and on that note, everything we currently fly either fixed or rotary wing is in and of itself the very basic definition of a Drone. I really don't mean to be mean or nasty but IMHO that 3rd paragraph of yours is about as non-productive a statement as I've ever read. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
You're spot on, not even remotely wrong with your comments. It's funny how myopic a persons viewpoint can be when they surround themselves with like minded people, who all feel the same way. To consider a different point of viewpoint isn't in the cards. Those few people they speak to suddenly become the masses, as if the ones you speak to and interact with are not at the same level as the others. .Even more so when they are "in the business" if you will. MR are here to stay, clubs would be wise to look at those pilots as potential new members. It was either this thread or another where someone was complaing about the inability to get new members to sign up to their clubs....looks like this would be a great solution!
09-04-2015, 01:52 PM
#1113
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+1 as they say....
You're spot on, not even remotely wrong with your comments. It's funny how myopic a persons viewpoint can be when they surround themselves with like minded people, who all feel the same way. To consider a different point of viewpoint isn't in the cards. Those few people they speak to suddenly become the masses, as if the ones you speak to and interact with are not at the same level as the others. .Even more so when they are "in the business" if you will. MR are here to stay, clubs would be wise to look at those pilots as potential new members. It was either this thread or another where someone was complaing about the inability to get new members to sign up to their clubs....looks like this would be a great solution!
You're spot on, not even remotely wrong with your comments. It's funny how myopic a persons viewpoint can be when they surround themselves with like minded people, who all feel the same way. To consider a different point of viewpoint isn't in the cards. Those few people they speak to suddenly become the masses, as if the ones you speak to and interact with are not at the same level as the others. .Even more so when they are "in the business" if you will. MR are here to stay, clubs would be wise to look at those pilots as potential new members. It was either this thread or another where someone was complaing about the inability to get new members to sign up to their clubs....looks like this would be a great solution!
09-04-2015, 02:10 PM
#1114
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I don't think any of us want to exclude the "Drone Folks" . Short of the racing guys I just don't see the others needing the AMA or local clubs. The racing guys need a venue to hold races that's were the clubs and AMA come into play.
I would like to think that all of us are in agreement that idiots such as the guy at the US OPEN are and will be a ongoing concern to all of us in the hobby.
Mike
I would like to think that all of us are in agreement that idiots such as the guy at the US OPEN are and will be a ongoing concern to all of us in the hobby.
Mike
Last edited by rcmiket; 09-04-2015 at 02:21 PM.
09-04-2015, 02:25 PM
#1115
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I don't think any of us want to exclude the "Drone Folks" . Short of the racing guys I just don't see the others needing the AMA or local clubs. The racing guys need a venue to hold races that's were the clubs and AMA come into play.
I would like to think that all of us are in agreement that idiots such as the guy at the US OPEN are and will be a ongoing concern to all of us in the hobby.
Mike
I would like to think that all of us are in agreement that idiots such as the guy at the US OPEN are and will be a ongoing concern to all of us in the hobby.
Mike
09-04-2015, 03:03 PM
#1116
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Have you taken any time to talk to people who fly them to film in various urban settings, public parks or neighborhoods? you might try, and ask them if they themselves identify as "model aviators" like we do flying our toy airplanes. Ask them if they ever heard of the AMA. Look on YouTube and see how few of these videos are taken at a flying field instead of a public place where the AMA has no influence to try making them fly safely.
Now let us apply a little bit of logic: why would any of these independent drone operators pay to join an organization where the first thing they will hear is that cannot fly the way they currently do: they now need to have a spotter (if using FPV), not fly beyond line of sight, not fly above people, etc? It just seems like an illogical expectation in light of what attracts many drone users in the first place. These issues are simply well beyond the reach of the AMA. And yes, this is just my opinion, but it does make a lot of sense to most RC people I have have been speaking with.
On the other hand, if we want to be in a fantasy world, and imagine that that majority of the drone operators do join the AMA, they will then represent mostly drones (by their very fast growing numbers, the model aviator will become completely irrelevant in the very organization they created and supported for decades. An estimation of 2015 sales I heard is 500,000 units, projected 1.4 Million units in 2016.
Drones (according to definitions I found from a couple of different sources) have more to do with the flight control mode: FPV / GPS ...
a- Drones are more formally known as unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV). Essentially, a drone is a flying robot. The aircraft can fly autonomously through software-controlled flight plans in their embedded systems working in conjunction with GPS. UAVs have most often been associated with the military but they are also used for search and rescue, surveillance, traffic monitoring, weather monitoring and firefighting, among other things.
b- Unmanned aircraft or ship that can navigate autonomously, without human control or beyond line of sight
Last edited by islandflyer; 09-04-2015 at 03:05 PM.
09-04-2015, 03:51 PM
#1117
09-04-2015, 05:22 PM
#1119
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Simply because the vast majority of drones sold are not (and probably never will be) AMA members: it is not a matter of want; it is a matter of can/cannot.
Have you taken any time to talk to people who fly them to film in various urban settings, public parks or neighborhoods? you might try, and ask them if they themselves identify as "model aviators" like we do flying our toy airplanes. Ask them if they ever heard of the AMA. Look on YouTube and see how few of these videos are taken at a flying field instead of a public place where the AMA has no influence to try making them fly safely.
Now let us apply a little bit of logic: why would any of these independent drone operators pay to join an organization where the first thing they will hear is that cannot fly the way they currently do: they now need to have a spotter (if using FPV), not fly beyond line of sight, not fly above people, etc? It just seems like an illogical expectation in light of what attracts many drone users in the first place. These issues are simply well beyond the reach of the AMA. And yes, this is just my opinion, but it does make a lot of sense to most RC people I have have been speaking with.
On the other hand, if we want to be in a fantasy world, and imagine that that majority of the drone operators do join the AMA, they will then represent mostly drones (by their very fast growing numbers, the model aviator will become completely irrelevant in the very organization they created and supported for decades. An estimation of 2015 sales I heard is 500,000 units, projected 1.4 Million units in 2016.
Sir, I have talked to those precise folks you reference here and you are absolutely right, they are going to march to the beat of their own drum and that is that, so put punishments in place to make it costly for them when they hurt other folk and maybe some of them will catch on. Unless I misunderstood your post, you are not talking about that so much as send the lot of them off packing to fend for themselves. If our club took that approach with those 15 Quad flyers and sent them out there to form their own group or remain outlaw we would lose the financial infusion and the power and community relations that brings to the table but, and this is huge, we would fail at our mission to safely promote model aviation, and that is simply unconscionable. You are lumping all the quad operators in as bad guys and they are not all bad, I'm sorry.
Quads and Drones are not interchangeable: quads are just like a heli with more than one main rotor.
Drones (according to definitions I found from a couple of different sources) have more to do with the flight control mode: FPV / GPS ...
a- Drones are more formally known as unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV). Essentially, a drone is a flying robot. The aircraft can fly autonomously through software-controlled flight plans in their embedded systems working in conjunction with GPS. UAVs have most often been associated with the military but they are also used for search and rescue, surveillance, traffic monitoring, weather monitoring and firefighting, among other things.
b- Unmanned aircraft or ship that can navigate autonomously, without human control or beyond line of sight
Have you taken any time to talk to people who fly them to film in various urban settings, public parks or neighborhoods? you might try, and ask them if they themselves identify as "model aviators" like we do flying our toy airplanes. Ask them if they ever heard of the AMA. Look on YouTube and see how few of these videos are taken at a flying field instead of a public place where the AMA has no influence to try making them fly safely.
Now let us apply a little bit of logic: why would any of these independent drone operators pay to join an organization where the first thing they will hear is that cannot fly the way they currently do: they now need to have a spotter (if using FPV), not fly beyond line of sight, not fly above people, etc? It just seems like an illogical expectation in light of what attracts many drone users in the first place. These issues are simply well beyond the reach of the AMA. And yes, this is just my opinion, but it does make a lot of sense to most RC people I have have been speaking with.
On the other hand, if we want to be in a fantasy world, and imagine that that majority of the drone operators do join the AMA, they will then represent mostly drones (by their very fast growing numbers, the model aviator will become completely irrelevant in the very organization they created and supported for decades. An estimation of 2015 sales I heard is 500,000 units, projected 1.4 Million units in 2016.
Sir, I have talked to those precise folks you reference here and you are absolutely right, they are going to march to the beat of their own drum and that is that, so put punishments in place to make it costly for them when they hurt other folk and maybe some of them will catch on. Unless I misunderstood your post, you are not talking about that so much as send the lot of them off packing to fend for themselves. If our club took that approach with those 15 Quad flyers and sent them out there to form their own group or remain outlaw we would lose the financial infusion and the power and community relations that brings to the table but, and this is huge, we would fail at our mission to safely promote model aviation, and that is simply unconscionable. You are lumping all the quad operators in as bad guys and they are not all bad, I'm sorry.
Quads and Drones are not interchangeable: quads are just like a heli with more than one main rotor.
Drones (according to definitions I found from a couple of different sources) have more to do with the flight control mode: FPV / GPS ...
a- Drones are more formally known as unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV). Essentially, a drone is a flying robot. The aircraft can fly autonomously through software-controlled flight plans in their embedded systems working in conjunction with GPS. UAVs have most often been associated with the military but they are also used for search and rescue, surveillance, traffic monitoring, weather monitoring and firefighting, among other things.
b- Unmanned aircraft or ship that can navigate autonomously, without human control or beyond line of sight
09-04-2015, 05:26 PM
#1121
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09-04-2015, 05:41 PM
#1123
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"..Simply because the vast majority of drones sold are not (and probably never will be) AMA members...."
Factually, that statement lacks credibility as there is no way for that party to know who the vast majority of drones are sold to, nor whether they will be members of AMA. He can tout his connections with the industry and his "private" conversations with the who's who of the hobby (that he won't name of course), but he simply has no proof to back up or validate what he has written as fact.
