islandflyer

We, reasonable people who can read will clearly separate the misquotes, and rephrasing with very twisted interpretations.
There is NOTHING an airplane manufacturer can gain from a drone ban, except for a slight chance of not being lumped together in overreaching Drone regulations that I have predicted, and that are already starting to emerge.
See the posts #11 and #16 here (and this is not mine!): http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/ama-discussions-74/11621146-proposed-drone-law-california.html#post12094886
I see no good reason why my hobby should be regulated together with another hobby I (and most model aviators) do not practice.

Duncman

I seriously doubt that distancing ourselves from the Drones will work very well, and who is going to create this new organization, The proactive Drone owners? Can't be the AMA by virtue of your logic, we should distance ourselves from them. I have always thought it better to be proactive rather than reactive and I really believe the AMA is trying to be proactive as is my club and if it is all the same to you I will stay that course.

Duncman

I'm very familiar with that law, still needs the Governor's signature but he will I'm sure. I don't like it in the least dang bit but I still fail to see were us distancing ourselves would have been any kind of protection, and maybe there is not any protection, just the generic application of the law would include us. I watched the video on the presentation the AMA gave to the State Legislature Committee and it was compelling and well presented, still feel it was pre-ordained and that could very well be a result of the hobby not recognizing the issues and not being as proactive as they could have been early on, but then again, who could have foreseen the potential impact at the beginning.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

In a nutshell yuuup! What is done is done, I just happen to think it was done right. Others will disagree and gnash their teeth, call for gathering of the troops to fight the battle of the drones, and I guess try to undo that which can't be undone at this point. Wasted energy I suspect. Sometimes people just need a cause. Don Quixote anyone?

islandflyer

With will and persistence, most things can be undone; there are seemingly unshakable things that were undone: Berlin Wall, Cuba embargo, USSR....
I should hope the AMA's mis-directions are not as deeply rooted, and certainly laws in the US can change rather rapidly.

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

See my previous post where I already answered this question.

islandflyer

A question that must sound familiar to you: do you facts to back that up?
There is absolutely no connection between loss of drone sales and gain in model airplane sales.
In addition, the flourishing of a Drone association should logically help drone sales, not hinder them.

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

Agreed. Not only will it not work, it will likely backfire and we'll be stuck some other organization competiting with the AMA as they look out for their own best interests.

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

So if the future is traditional "model aviation" why did venture capital firm RSE ventures invest $1M in drone racing rather than traditional "model aviation"? If fact, when was the last time venture capital firms invested anything in traditional "model aviation"?

http://www.theverge.com/2015/8/12/91...illion-backing

rcmiket

"..Simply because the vast majority of drones sold are not (and probably never will be) AMA members...."

You can add me to the list that firmly believe this purely based on my day to day at the LHS. Now since this is based on first hand experience is it a Fact or just my Opinion?

Mike

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

Well, if it is you, islandflyer or myself it is just our opinion! If it is Porcia, Duncman or Ace Dufe, it is a fact! LOL!!

Astro

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

Dude, take your own advice and step back from this and chill a bit.

So those that disagree with you are gnashing their teeth and calling for the troops to fight the battle of the drones???

Please stop it with the unnecessary dialogue that is meant to discredit those that simply have differing opinions than you. When you employ this kind of tactic in your debate, you are just as guilty as those you begged to stop the personal attacks and name-calling several pages ago.

Regards,

Astro

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

Jumping to your own delusional conclusions again?

WHO said traditional model aviation is the "future"? The future of WHAT? What does that even mean?

What does a venture capital firm investing in drone racing have to do with ANYTHING we are discussing here?

Astro

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

Facts??? Care to share any evidence or facts to support your statement, "Not only will it not work"? , or is that just your opinion?

Astro

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

Since we are all here to discuss our opinions' please expand on your thoughts. WHY do you not think it will work well? What evidence have you seen that leads you to that belief?

UMMMM.....YES! That is usually how it would work! Kinda like how this GREAT COUNTRY that we live in was created....by our proactive forefathers!!

Now you are starting to get it!!! That is EXACTLY what I have been saying!

So why don't you go form a drone owners Advocacy COB!!! rather than rely on an old, antiquated one that was formed to advocate for "traditional model aviation"??

Astro

Duncman

Astrohog, I'm crushed you would say that about me, I've gone an extra measure to point out in my posts that is just "my opinion" and now you make this accusation, I am so sorry I did not follow your established protocol, what can I do in the future to keep from offending thee???? Lol

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

First, I am not offended, so you can quit putting words into my mouth (as I have asked several times).

Second, I am here to engage in a discussion with you and others who are passionate about these issues that face us. In order for any of this banter to matter and have any positive value whatsoever, I have asked that we keep the discussion to facts and otherwise COMPELLING opinions that are backed with some form of (at least) first-hand experience.

Furthermore, I would ask that if you want to come on here and state your opinion, that you would have the courtesy to answer the simple questions that are posed when your opinion is challenged.

Simple enough?

Astro

Duncman

In my humble OPINION, the Drone being brought into the realm of the AMA provides an infrastructure and resources already in place that would allow this new technology to evolve from an irresponsible outlaw group to one that is mature and responsible. Please note that there will always be renegades in any sport or hobby. If not allowed to enter the AMA this group would be relegated to essentially re-inventing the wheel with the associated time consuming growing pains. One more reason to encourage their inclusion to Model Aviation is that unlike RC Boats that operate in water and RC Cars that operate on land, Drones operate in the same environment we do, the air, so one can argue very successfully that it is a logical evolutionary step to bring Drones in under Model Aviation's wings (no pun intended) since the operational requirements are very similar.

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

Thank-you for r response. Now we are getting somewhere!

I respectfully disagree. Although the relatively new hobby of drone flying presents such different challenges (proof of this statement is found On the six o'clock news on a now DAILY BASIS) than traditional model aviation, the wheel does not need to be completely re-invented, it just needs its own advocacy group that truly understands its unique needs and is better equipped to handle those challenges. Yes, unfortunately, it will be a time-consuming effort, but who better to spend the time and effort than those that are passionate about those issues unique to that group. As an AMA member, I do not think that a disproportionate amount of the AMA's resources (time and/or money) should be spent to advocate for a minority of the overall membership.
As I don't have any hard facts to support my assertion that drone flyers are a minority of the AMA's membership (I don't think there is ANY hard date anywhere that can prove or disprove this) I will support my statement by saying that in MY club (and at least 5 others that I am active in) members who own drones represent a very small percentage of the membership.

Duncman, Porcia and Ace; What percentage of your respective clubs are drone owners?

Again, I respectfully disagree. Flawed logic. While the AMA does represent boats and cars that operate on water and land (not in the air), the commonality is that in those instances, those that participate have generally secured their own facilities to responsibly enjoy their activities in order to not infringe their hobby on the general public. In the MANY years of r/c boating and r/c cars, there has NEVER been a public outcry against them like their is on drones right now, and THAT IS A FACT that cannot be refuted. Besides that, there are countless OBVIOUS differences in the potential for serious issues where land and water-based craft vs. airborne vehicles are concerned (public privacy and public safety are probably the two biggest).

Here is analogy that supports my opinion: Look at auto racing, all cars share four wheels, engines, steering wheels, a driver, a track and all participants want to reach the finish line first, yet there are distinctly different organizations to represent the individual and unique needs of each type of racing. NASCAR, CART, INDY, SCCA, NHRA, etc., etc. As motor sports evolved (as we are seeing r/c evolve), so did the organizations that represent their interests. Why should the AMA be any different?

UMMM....yeah, not so much! (but if you say so! )

Regards,

Astro

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

You are funny, I'll give you that. You continue to try so hard, you really shouldn't try to make this personal thing. The context of some of these conversations is escaping you, intentially or not. I haven't given anyone advice, so no need to take it myself. If you can find somewhere where I've called someone a name,like troll, or talked about other websites or things that have happened to them in the past, by all means, post it up. You continue to try to make this a clash of personalities, Does it always have to be an us versus them with you? Rhetorical question.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Well, based on the fact that you confirm it's a belief.....I'd say that falls squarely in the "opinion" column no? That this belief comes from limited and specific personal experience is largely irrelevant, absent actual factual data. Which nobody has, one way or another. You work at one hobby shop, and will probably have contact with a limited amount of people in your geographic area. You have more experiences that perhaps the average person dealing with this issue, but no more actual data than they do.

I can say 100% of new drone fliers sign up for the AMA and then join a club because I've personally seen three people do that at my club.....doesn't make it fact, it's just an experience that helps form my opinion. I'd guess not everyone who buys a quad/MR (a good one, not Air Hog kinda deal), does not run right to a club or AMA, just as someone who buys a fixed wing craft or heli doesn't either.

At this point I don't see a downside to them joining the AMA or clubs.

rcmiket

"You have more experiences that perhaps the average person dealing with this issue, but no more actual data than they do."

That just may be the most ridiculous thing I've ever read. So in your opinion actual experience has no value.

Mike

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

Actually, you are the one clashing personalities by making statements like, "gnashing their teeth and calling for the troops to fight the battle of the drones??? " Where did that come from? Completely baseless and made up!!!

Porcia, what percentage of your club are drone owners?

p.s. where'd your smilies go?

Astro

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

Maybe you can enlighten us with your definition of a drone?

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

That's a brillant anology. So, using your analogy, the AMA should close shop and then control line, gliders, pattern, IMAC, jets, helis, indoor (and any other groups I missed) should all have their own organizations. Oh, wait a minute, they already do under the AMA today:

http://www.modelaircraft.org/membership/sig.aspx

Wow, how about that for forward thinking.