Dues increase coming? 1 million spent on government relations.....
10-07-2015, 04:55 AM
#1301
Several have argued here that the AMA is a business, which I disagree with: to be accurate, it is a NPO (Non Profit Organization - or Association) as per AMA's own description as well as the IRS nomenclature.
An NPO is simply a type of business. You can check with the state of IN to obtain copies of the AMA's "BUSINESS" entity filing documents as well as their business formation documents.
We are members, and the board members, as mere elected representatives of the members (us), are indeed accountable to the members.
If the AMA were a business, we would be the stock/share holders (those who pay the bills and elect the board). In a business, the management is definitely accountable to the share holders.
That's completely wrong. Not every business is a publicly traded company. You don't have to be a publicly traded company to be a business. Are you operating a legal business? If so, did you not need to file "Business Formation Documents" for the state in which you operate?
As for the AMA's transparency, several members have asked the AMA just a few basic questions which should be easy to answer, such as:
- Of the $250,000.00 drone program budget voted on last year by the executive council, how much has been spent, and how?
- Has that campaign led to an actual increase in number of new members?
- In the membership questionnaire, how many of these new members list Multirotor and FPV as primary interest?
No answer has ever been provided to these inquiring members so far, a few months after starting the questions.
It doesn't take a genius to realize that the questions and speculations in several threads around these subjects indicate that there is no official answer revealed anywhere we know of.
Yet, there are enough AMA drone policy fans here, that if there was any quantitative information at all that would be flattering for this program, that information would certainly be revealed and promoted.
In fact, if that policy was a success, the AMA leaders who by a narrow vote margin took the AMA in this direction would be pounding their chests boasting their success; this would certainly clam much of the dissent down.
Not every member cares, but those who do should have easy access to pertinent information. How else can we make an informed choice of who we vote for? How else can we assess if a current officer or VP is doing a good job for us so we would re-elect him (or not)? It is like the news: a lot of people don't care, but it is all readily available to those who do.
An NPO is simply a type of business. You can check with the state of IN to obtain copies of the AMA's "BUSINESS" entity filing documents as well as their business formation documents.
We are members, and the board members, as mere elected representatives of the members (us), are indeed accountable to the members.
If the AMA were a business, we would be the stock/share holders (those who pay the bills and elect the board). In a business, the management is definitely accountable to the share holders.
That's completely wrong. Not every business is a publicly traded company. You don't have to be a publicly traded company to be a business. Are you operating a legal business? If so, did you not need to file "Business Formation Documents" for the state in which you operate?
As for the AMA's transparency, several members have asked the AMA just a few basic questions which should be easy to answer, such as:
- Of the $250,000.00 drone program budget voted on last year by the executive council, how much has been spent, and how?
- Has that campaign led to an actual increase in number of new members?
- In the membership questionnaire, how many of these new members list Multirotor and FPV as primary interest?
No answer has ever been provided to these inquiring members so far, a few months after starting the questions.
It doesn't take a genius to realize that the questions and speculations in several threads around these subjects indicate that there is no official answer revealed anywhere we know of.
Yet, there are enough AMA drone policy fans here, that if there was any quantitative information at all that would be flattering for this program, that information would certainly be revealed and promoted.
In fact, if that policy was a success, the AMA leaders who by a narrow vote margin took the AMA in this direction would be pounding their chests boasting their success; this would certainly clam much of the dissent down.
Not every member cares, but those who do should have easy access to pertinent information. How else can we make an informed choice of who we vote for? How else can we assess if a current officer or VP is doing a good job for us so we would re-elect him (or not)? It is like the news: a lot of people don't care, but it is all readily available to those who do.
10-07-2015, 05:09 AM
#1302
I'd venture a guess the AMA membership numbers are changing almost daily.
10-07-2015, 05:28 AM
#1303
What's the percentage difference between 172k and 175k and what level of precision do you feel you need?
Frankly, I'm not sure you're a fan of anything other than bashing the AMA for your own lack of understanding of basic business operating policies and procedures and your inability to contact the AMA directly in order to obtain the information you're looking for.
Last edited by Chris P. Bacon; 10-07-2015 at 05:31 AM.
10-07-2015, 05:31 AM
#1304
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Have you ever been employed as a professional in the accounting or financial industry? If so, you'd realize "about" is used/implied all the time when referring to values that are constantly changing. In fact, nearly all business related financial reporting is rounded to the nearest applicable value.
I'd venture a guess the AMA membership numbers are changing almost daily.
I'd venture a guess the AMA membership numbers are changing almost daily.
Let me know how it works. You don't have to be a accountant to know that.but since you asked.
The accountant that does our club books and files our taxes every year does not use "about" anywhere nor do we provide her with receipts with a amount of "about".
My wife is a bank branch manager and bank examiners local and federal ( along with bank customers) do not want to see or use "about". How about you would you like to see a balance of "about"
In my 35+ years in retail I have never seen the word "about" on any P&L
Sure the numbers change daily but when you close out the year there certainly is a number correct? It is not "about".
Now if in your world your accountant,banker or investment guy uses about you might want to look elsewhere.
Mike
Last edited by rcmiket; 10-07-2015 at 05:38 AM.
10-07-2015, 05:45 AM
#1305
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It means they're being technically correct since the numbers are in a constant state of flux.
What's the percentage difference between 172k and 175k and what level of precision do you feel you need?
Frankly, I'm not sure you're a fan of anything other than bashing the AMA for your own lack of understanding of basic business operating policies and procedures and your inability to contact the AMA directly in order to obtain the information you're looking for.
What's the percentage difference between 172k and 175k and what level of precision do you feel you need?
Frankly, I'm not sure you're a fan of anything other than bashing the AMA for your own lack of understanding of basic business operating policies and procedures and your inability to contact the AMA directly in order to obtain the information you're looking for.
Just because I question the direction and spending of a organization I belong to does not make myself or anyone else here who does that same a "basher"
I understand your very happy with the way things are going which is your right and I respect that. There's always room for improvement in any organization.
Mike
Last edited by rcmiket; 10-07-2015 at 05:48 AM.
10-07-2015, 05:49 AM
#1306
Join Date: Jun 2004
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If the AMA were a business, we would be the stock/share holders (those who pay the bills and elect the board). In a business, the management is definitely accountable to the share holders.
That's completely wrong. Not every business is a publicly traded company. You don't have to be a publicly traded company to be a business. Are you operating a legal business? If so, did you not need to file "Business Formation Documents" for the state in which you operate?
That's completely wrong. Not every business is a publicly traded company. You don't have to be a publicly traded company to be a business. Are you operating a legal business? If so, did you not need to file "Business Formation Documents" for the state in which you operate?
I never mentioned publicly traded.
In addition, privately held corporations have share holders too (or owners in an LLC). It does not change the fact that management is accountable to share holders or members in our case.
That comment was completely irrelevant to the subject of the conversation, but there must be some degree of strange pleasure in stepping in for the sake of being argumentative...
10-07-2015, 05:55 AM
#1307
Please give me a break.
I've given you enough breaks. Why don't you give it a break? Why don't you take some responsibility to finding answers for the questions you're looking for?
Why not try and use "about" on your tax form next year?
Let me know how it works. You don't have to be a accountant to know that.but since you asked.
The accountant that does our club books and files our taxes every year does not use "about" anywhere nor do we provide her with receipts with a amount of "about".
My wife is a bank branch manager and bank examiners local and federal do not want to see or use "about"
I my 35+ years in retail I have never seen the word "about" on any P&L
I do and I do it every year on my tax forms. It's implied through rounding and is permitted by the IRS. Here are the instructions from the IRS (IRS Publication 17) and I've even included the example you.
Computations
The following information may be useful in making the return easier to complete.
Rounding off dollars. You can round off cents to whole dollars on your return and schedules. If you do round to whole dollars, you must round all amounts. To round, drop amounts under 50 cents and increase amounts from 50 to 99 cents to the next dollar. For example, $1.39 becomes $1 and $2.50 becomes $3.
If you have to add two or more amounts to figure the amount to enter on a line, include cents when adding the amounts and round off only the total.
Example.
You receive two Forms W-2: one showing wages of $5,000.55 and one showing wages of $18,500.73. On Form 1040, line 7, you would enter $23,501 ($5,000.55 + $18,500.73 = $23,501.28), not $23,502 ($5,001 + $18,501).
Hopefully you can understand from the example above wages being reported to the IRS are $23,501 which is about $23,501.28 and that's good enough for the IRS.
Mike
I've given you enough breaks. Why don't you give it a break? Why don't you take some responsibility to finding answers for the questions you're looking for?
Why not try and use "about" on your tax form next year?
Let me know how it works. You don't have to be a accountant to know that.but since you asked.
The accountant that does our club books and files our taxes every year does not use "about" anywhere nor do we provide her with receipts with a amount of "about".
My wife is a bank branch manager and bank examiners local and federal do not want to see or use "about"
I my 35+ years in retail I have never seen the word "about" on any P&L
I do and I do it every year on my tax forms. It's implied through rounding and is permitted by the IRS. Here are the instructions from the IRS (IRS Publication 17) and I've even included the example you.
Computations
The following information may be useful in making the return easier to complete.
Rounding off dollars. You can round off cents to whole dollars on your return and schedules. If you do round to whole dollars, you must round all amounts. To round, drop amounts under 50 cents and increase amounts from 50 to 99 cents to the next dollar. For example, $1.39 becomes $1 and $2.50 becomes $3.
If you have to add two or more amounts to figure the amount to enter on a line, include cents when adding the amounts and round off only the total.
Example.
You receive two Forms W-2: one showing wages of $5,000.55 and one showing wages of $18,500.73. On Form 1040, line 7, you would enter $23,501 ($5,000.55 + $18,500.73 = $23,501.28), not $23,502 ($5,001 + $18,501).
Hopefully you can understand from the example above wages being reported to the IRS are $23,501 which is about $23,501.28 and that's good enough for the IRS.
Mike
10-07-2015, 06:02 AM
#1308
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10-07-2015, 06:16 AM
#1309
Mr. "Know-it-all" has to show limited understanding of plain language again, or add what it not there!
I never mentioned publicly traded.
In addition, privately held corporations have share holders too (or owners in an LLC). It does not change the fact that management is accountable to share holders or members in our case.
I never mentioned publicly traded.
In addition, privately held corporations have share holders too (or owners in an LLC). It does not change the fact that management is accountable to share holders or members in our case.
10-07-2015, 06:37 AM
#1310
Join Date: Jun 2004
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10-07-2015, 06:59 AM
#1311
10-07-2015, 09:46 AM
#1312
But yes, even non-profits must files taxes as business as a business and the AMA is indeed classified as one.
But why has this discussion degraded into another pizzing contest over a word? What greaater subject is being covered up?
10-07-2015, 10:06 AM
#1313
The vast majority of businesses in this country are small businesses - maybe you should "dabble" in it. When Republicans talk about helping businesses they are typically referring to small businesses. That's what provides growth.
But yes, even non-profits must files taxes as business as a business and the AMA is indeed classified as one.
But why has this discussion degraded into another pizzing contest over a word? What greaater subject is being covered up?
But yes, even non-profits must files taxes as business as a business and the AMA is indeed classified as one.
But why has this discussion degraded into another pizzing contest over a word? What greaater subject is being covered up?
Unfortunately, I doubt any many small business owners would agree they're getting any kind of help with growth from the government. Well, maybe those making huge political contributions, but donations of that size usually don't come from small businesses to begin with.
Not sure on the pizzing contest over the words, however, it appears some intentionally use nebulous words/concepts in an effort to support their case.
10-07-2015, 12:25 PM
#1314
Banned
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The vast majority of businesses in this country are small businesses - maybe you should "dabble" in it. When Republicans talk about helping businesses they are typically referring to small businesses. That's what provides growth.
But yes, even non-profits must files taxes as business as a business and the AMA is indeed classified as one.
But why has this discussion degraded into another pizzing contest over a word? What greaater subject is being covered up?
But yes, even non-profits must files taxes as business as a business and the AMA is indeed classified as one.
But why has this discussion degraded into another pizzing contest over a word? What greaater subject is being covered up?
Always gotta be a conspiracy...lol.
10-07-2015, 12:28 PM
#1315
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
Mr. "Know-it-all" has to show limited understanding of plain language again, or add what it not there!
I never mentioned publicly traded.
In addition, privately held corporations have share holders too (or owners in an LLC). It does not change the fact that management is accountable to share holders or members in our case.
That comment was completely irrelevant to the subject of the conversation, but there must be some degree of strange pleasure in stepping in for the sake of being argumentative...
I never mentioned publicly traded.
In addition, privately held corporations have share holders too (or owners in an LLC). It does not change the fact that management is accountable to share holders or members in our case.
That comment was completely irrelevant to the subject of the conversation, but there must be some degree of strange pleasure in stepping in for the sake of being argumentative...
10-07-2015, 01:43 PM
#1317
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
He has at least tried, in vain of course, to answer questions and present some rationale for them. I say in vain not because he isn't correct, or disagree with his position, but because no matter what he says (even opinion), it's subject to pedantic and obtuse attack, as well as personal attacks. Stock in trade when all else fails, sort of like you alluding to him being an enforcer. is it completely impossible to try to be civil and disagree. ?
10-07-2015, 02:19 PM
#1318
True story: Many years ago I was picking up some parts from my LHS just before Christmas. The owner was taking care of me and were talking for a few minutes. I was busting his chops and asked if he was having a Christmas party over at his house for the guys. He replied "you're the only one I'd invite". Lets just say it took me a few years to understand what he meant.
10-07-2015, 03:27 PM
#1319
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10-07-2015, 04:28 PM
#1320
Please, please, please don't leave me out. I love the fluff, spin, and derailment. I guess the derailment part hasn't worked so well though...all the AMA haters and conspiracy theorists are still here putting coal on the fire.
At least Mike learned he can round to nearest dollar on his tax return today. Maybe he'll double check the work his club's accountant has done for his club. Remember it's all "ABOUT" learning.
I'll hope to work on tomorrow's lesson plan this evening.
10-07-2015, 05:25 PM
#1321
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come on guys I am retired 67 years have a great pension and good ss I don't care if it cost 200 a year it is well worth it for what AMA our CBO spells peace of mind quit whinning, my IMAC dues are going up also but both are still a great deal darn man
10-07-2015, 05:38 PM
#1322
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Please give me a break. Why not try and use "about" on your tax form next year?
Let me know how it works. You don't have to be a accountant to know that.but since you asked.
The accountant that does our club books and files our taxes every year does not use "about" anywhere nor do we provide her with receipts with a amount of "about".
My wife is a bank branch manager and bank examiners local and federal ( along with bank customers) do not want to see or use "about". How about you would you like to see a balance of "about"
In my 35+ years in retail I have never seen the word "about" on any P&L
Sure the numbers change daily but when you close out the year there certainly is a number correct? It is not "about".
Now if in your world your accountant,banker or investment guy uses about you might want to look elsewhere.
Mike
Let me know how it works. You don't have to be a accountant to know that.but since you asked.
The accountant that does our club books and files our taxes every year does not use "about" anywhere nor do we provide her with receipts with a amount of "about".
My wife is a bank branch manager and bank examiners local and federal ( along with bank customers) do not want to see or use "about". How about you would you like to see a balance of "about"
In my 35+ years in retail I have never seen the word "about" on any P&L
Sure the numbers change daily but when you close out the year there certainly is a number correct? It is not "about".
Now if in your world your accountant,banker or investment guy uses about you might want to look elsewhere.
Mike
10-07-2015, 06:00 PM
#1324
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/ama-...l#post12109818
10-07-2015, 07:47 PM
#1325
yall do know that my use of the term "about" in that post of AMA totals, was just because of being to lazy to type out that, those numbers are the last time i was able to find the official membership total published in model aviation mag. nothing more, nothing less.
there, now yall have made me pay for being lazy.
there, now yall have made me pay for being lazy.
