Dues increase coming? 1 million spent on government relations.....
10-10-2015, 09:34 AM
#1353
If I was "AMA Supreme Ruler"......
There would be no confusion about "AMA Legal" FPV activity and any other types of "Drone Operation" because the AMA would not recognize any sort of FPV / Drone operations at AMA club fields.
Line of sight control only, no exceptions.
If the FAA would like to HIRE the AMA as a consultant to take part in the process of drawing up legislation to control "Rogue FPV" activity and to distinguish boundaries, definitions, etc...then I would be agreeable to that.
There is no way that I would PAY ANYTHING to get dragged into this process.
The AMA would continue to operate as it always has, membership levels would maintain a healthy level and AMA members would be free to fly their quad-copters at AMA club fields just like any other model is allowed to fly.
There would be no confusion about "AMA Legal" FPV activity and any other types of "Drone Operation" because the AMA would not recognize any sort of FPV / Drone operations at AMA club fields.
Line of sight control only, no exceptions.
If the FAA would like to HIRE the AMA as a consultant to take part in the process of drawing up legislation to control "Rogue FPV" activity and to distinguish boundaries, definitions, etc...then I would be agreeable to that.
There is no way that I would PAY ANYTHING to get dragged into this process.
The AMA would continue to operate as it always has, membership levels would maintain a healthy level and AMA members would be free to fly their quad-copters at AMA club fields just like any other model is allowed to fly.
10-10-2015, 12:39 PM
#1355
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Sure...they seem active, looks like they did something over a year ago. Do they seem like an organization you want working on behalf of the hobby? Anything more recent from them? Any programs with the FAA, any testimony before congress? How old is this organization...membership numbers...etc etc etc. They appear to be a more recent entity with a pretty narrow focus.
Mike
10-10-2015, 02:19 PM
#1356
10-10-2015, 02:22 PM
#1357
10-10-2015, 03:22 PM
#1358
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I have challenged you several times to show any link between PAU and my stance an drones, and nothing remotely logical if anything at all ever came from you in response. I have never to my knowledge lost a sale to Drones: they don't compete at XFC, or Tucson Aerobatic Shootout, cannot do cool 3D Free style at our gatherings, and present zero interest to any of my team pilots.
Unlike some here, I don't hide behind a (sometimes changing) screen name or a "somewhere" location. My real name, real location, and real business are all displayed for everyone to see. I have nothing to hide.
I have not been banned for any site for trolling either.
For the record, Model Aviation has been my hobby and passion for well over 40 years, decades before I ever got involved professionally, and will continue to be even if I ever leave the business.
Last edited by islandflyer; 10-10-2015 at 04:03 PM.
10-10-2015, 04:33 PM
#1359
And what is the relevance???? It is completely irrelevant!!!!
It's actually very relevant indeed. It's called a conflict of interest.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict_of_interest
Besides, I don't hide it: My signature shows in every one of my posts what my affiliation is. I have also posted it many times. I was answering your buddy Tom's question: "Do they seem like an organization you want working on behalf of the hobby? In a straight and forward way.Nothing more, nothing less.
I have challenged you several times to show any link between PAU and my stance an drones, and nothing remotely logical if anything at all ever came from you in response.
And I've responded every single time: Conflict of Interest
I have never to my knowledge lost a sale to Drones: they don't compete at XFC, or Tucson Aerobatic Shootout, cannot do cool 3D Free style at our gatherings, and present zero interest to any of my team pilots.
That is irrelevant, one doesn't need to demonstrate lost revenue in order to have a conflict of interest.
Unlike some here, I don't hide behind a (sometimes changing) screen name or a "somewhere" location. My real name, real location, and real business are all displayed for everyone to see. I have nothing to hide.
I have not been banned for any site for trolling either.
Relevance?
For the record, Model Aviation has been my hobby and passion for well over 40 years, decades before I ever got involved professionally, and will continue to be even if I ever leave the business.
It's actually very relevant indeed. It's called a conflict of interest.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict_of_interest
Besides, I don't hide it: My signature shows in every one of my posts what my affiliation is. I have also posted it many times. I was answering your buddy Tom's question: "Do they seem like an organization you want working on behalf of the hobby? In a straight and forward way.Nothing more, nothing less.
I have challenged you several times to show any link between PAU and my stance an drones, and nothing remotely logical if anything at all ever came from you in response.
And I've responded every single time: Conflict of Interest
I have never to my knowledge lost a sale to Drones: they don't compete at XFC, or Tucson Aerobatic Shootout, cannot do cool 3D Free style at our gatherings, and present zero interest to any of my team pilots.
That is irrelevant, one doesn't need to demonstrate lost revenue in order to have a conflict of interest.
Unlike some here, I don't hide behind a (sometimes changing) screen name or a "somewhere" location. My real name, real location, and real business are all displayed for everyone to see. I have nothing to hide.
I have not been banned for any site for trolling either.
Relevance?
For the record, Model Aviation has been my hobby and passion for well over 40 years, decades before I ever got involved professionally, and will continue to be even if I ever leave the business.
10-10-2015, 05:57 PM
#1361
I've been involved in this thread for some time and he refuses to substantiate or explain how or where there is a conflict of interest. He DID post a definition of conflict of interest, but I think we are all confused how he thinks it relates to the topic at hand.
Maybe he can enlighten us with some facts, otherwise he is just another troll.....
Astro
10-10-2015, 06:09 PM
#1362
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Invoking conflict of interest, with no logic to substantiate the conclusion, is like claiming: "therefore, the earth is square! " with no logic to substantiate the conclusion.
A growing number of us are voicing our opposition to the AMA's new drone advocacy, which most of us feel is, if not caused by, at least precipitated by the drone advocacy budget of $250,000 voted last year. The financial aspect of this is not a success: if the drone operators had en mass rushed to join the AMA and paid their memberships, the board members who supported this decision would be quick to quiet down all this dissent, and the 6 of 12 (tie vote broken by the president) would be boasting their positive results.
This has not happened.
I have spoken on the phone directly with three AMA VP's in the past week, and none has denied this logical conclusion.
10-10-2015, 06:19 PM
#1363
10-10-2015, 06:21 PM
#1364
"A conflict of interest (COI) is a situation in which a person or organization is involved in multiple interests, financial interest, or otherwise, one of which could possibly corrupt the motivation of the individual or organization.
The presence of a conflict of interest is independent of the occurrence of impropriety. Therefore, a conflict of interest can be discovered and voluntarily defused before any corruption occurs. A widely used definition is: "A conflict of interest is a set of circumstances that creates a risk that professional judgement or actions regarding a primary interest will be unduly influenced by a secondary interest."[SUP][1][/SUP] Primary interest refers to the principal goals of the profession or activity, such as the protection of clients, the health of patients, the integrity of research, and the duties of public office. Secondary interest includes not only financial gain but also such motives as the desire for professional advancement and the wish to do favours for family and friends, but conflict of interest rules usually focus on financial relationships because they are relatively more objective, fungible, and quantifiable. The secondary interests are not treated as wrong in themselves, but become objectionable when they are believed to have greater weight than the primary interests. The conflict in a conflict of interest exists whether or not a particular individual is actually influenced by the secondary interest. It exists if the circumstances are reasonably believed (on the basis of past experience and objective evidence) to create a risk that decisions may be unduly influenced by secondary interests."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict_of_interest
10-10-2015, 06:24 PM
#1365
And I've responded every single time: Conflictof Interest
That is irrelevant, one doesn't need todemonstrate lost revenue in order to have a conflict of interest.
Islandflyer is an AMA member who is voicing his concerns for how the AMA is advocating for his interest as a modeler. He has no more or less ability to affect the AMA and their actions than any other singular AMA member. He has every right to come on a public forum and voice his concerns. It does not constitute a conflict of interest. Once again, you are showing your lack of comprehension of the written word as well as the issues at hand.
Relevance?
It's called credibility and accountability.
Astro
10-10-2015, 06:36 PM
#1366
"A conflict of interest (COI) is a situation in which a person or organization is involved in multiple interests, financial interest, or otherwise, one of which could possibly corrupt the motivation of the individual or organization.
The presence of a conflict of interest is independent of the occurrence of impropriety. Therefore, a conflict of interest can be discovered and voluntarily defused before any corruption occurs. A widely used definition is: "A conflict of interest is a set of circumstances that creates a risk that professional judgement or actions regarding a primary interest will be unduly influenced by a secondary interest."[SUP][1][/SUP] Primary interest refers to the principal goals of the profession or activity, such as the protection of clients, the health of patients, the integrity of research, and the duties of public office. Secondary interest includes not only financial gain but also such motives as the desire for professional advancement and the wish to do favours for family and friends, but conflict of interest rules usually focus on financial relationships because they are relatively more objective, fungible, and quantifiable. The secondary interests are not treated as wrong in themselves, but become objectionable when they are believed to have greater weight than the primary interests. The conflict in a conflict of interest exists whether or not a particular individual is actually influenced by the secondary interest. It exists if the circumstances are reasonably believed (on the basis of past experience and objective evidence) to create a risk that decisions may be unduly influenced by secondary interests."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict_of_interest
The presence of a conflict of interest is independent of the occurrence of impropriety. Therefore, a conflict of interest can be discovered and voluntarily defused before any corruption occurs. A widely used definition is: "A conflict of interest is a set of circumstances that creates a risk that professional judgement or actions regarding a primary interest will be unduly influenced by a secondary interest."[SUP][1][/SUP] Primary interest refers to the principal goals of the profession or activity, such as the protection of clients, the health of patients, the integrity of research, and the duties of public office. Secondary interest includes not only financial gain but also such motives as the desire for professional advancement and the wish to do favours for family and friends, but conflict of interest rules usually focus on financial relationships because they are relatively more objective, fungible, and quantifiable. The secondary interests are not treated as wrong in themselves, but become objectionable when they are believed to have greater weight than the primary interests. The conflict in a conflict of interest exists whether or not a particular individual is actually influenced by the secondary interest. It exists if the circumstances are reasonably believed (on the basis of past experience and objective evidence) to create a risk that decisions may be unduly influenced by secondary interests."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict_of_interest
We all know WHAT a conflict of interest is.
How do YOU connect conflict of interest with Islandflyer's position on how the AMA is failing its members?
Please enlighten us.
Astro
10-10-2015, 06:46 PM
#1367
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"A conflict of interest (COI) is a situation in which a person or organization is involved in multiple interests, financial interest, or otherwise, one of which could possibly corrupt the motivation of the individual or organization.
The presence of a conflict of interest is independent of the occurrence of impropriety. Therefore, a conflict of interest can be discovered and voluntarily defused before any corruption occurs. A widely used definition is: "A conflict of interest is a set of circumstances that creates a risk that professional judgement or actions regarding a primary interest will be unduly influenced by a secondary interest."[SUP][1][/SUP] Primary interest refers to the principal goals of the profession or activity, such as the protection of clients, the health of patients, the integrity of research, and the duties of public office. Secondary interest includes not only financial gain but also such motives as the desire for professional advancement and the wish to do favours for family and friends, but conflict of interest rules usually focus on financial relationships because they are relatively more objective, fungible, and quantifiable. The secondary interests are not treated as wrong in themselves, but become objectionable when they are believed to have greater weight than the primary interests. The conflict in a conflict of interest exists whether or not a particular individual is actually influenced by the secondary interest. It exists if the circumstances are reasonably believed (on the basis of past experience and objective evidence) to create a risk that decisions may be unduly influenced by secondary interests."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict_of_interest
The presence of a conflict of interest is independent of the occurrence of impropriety. Therefore, a conflict of interest can be discovered and voluntarily defused before any corruption occurs. A widely used definition is: "A conflict of interest is a set of circumstances that creates a risk that professional judgement or actions regarding a primary interest will be unduly influenced by a secondary interest."[SUP][1][/SUP] Primary interest refers to the principal goals of the profession or activity, such as the protection of clients, the health of patients, the integrity of research, and the duties of public office. Secondary interest includes not only financial gain but also such motives as the desire for professional advancement and the wish to do favours for family and friends, but conflict of interest rules usually focus on financial relationships because they are relatively more objective, fungible, and quantifiable. The secondary interests are not treated as wrong in themselves, but become objectionable when they are believed to have greater weight than the primary interests. The conflict in a conflict of interest exists whether or not a particular individual is actually influenced by the secondary interest. It exists if the circumstances are reasonably believed (on the basis of past experience and objective evidence) to create a risk that decisions may be unduly influenced by secondary interests."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict_of_interest
It by no means this shows how it applies here...there simply is no connection.
I am only concerned about our model aviation hobby in how the AMA, in its current drone advocacy policy and is failing in its very basic and primary mission of protecting and representing Model Aviation, by embracing a new activity of Drone Operation, the vast majority of which takes place outside the frame work of our Model Aviation hobby, and only model aviation.
10-11-2015, 07:35 AM
#1369
I can read and quote dictionary definitions as well as anyone.
The quote I referenced was taken from an encyclopedia, not a dictionary. There is a difference.
It by no means this shows how it applies here...there simply is no connection.
You can deny it all you want, however, it's intuitively obvious how it applies here.
I am only concerned about our model aviation hobby in how the AMA, in its current drone advocacy policy and is failing in its very basic and primary mission of protecting and representing Model Aviation, by embracing a new activity of Drone Operation, the vast majority of which takes place outside the frame work of our Model Aviation hobby, and only model aviation.
Again, that's your personal interpretation of hobby and Model Aviation. As clearly communicated to you several times, if you don't like what the AMA is doing run for office.
The quote I referenced was taken from an encyclopedia, not a dictionary. There is a difference.
It by no means this shows how it applies here...there simply is no connection.
You can deny it all you want, however, it's intuitively obvious how it applies here.
I am only concerned about our model aviation hobby in how the AMA, in its current drone advocacy policy and is failing in its very basic and primary mission of protecting and representing Model Aviation, by embracing a new activity of Drone Operation, the vast majority of which takes place outside the frame work of our Model Aviation hobby, and only model aviation.
Again, that's your personal interpretation of hobby and Model Aviation. As clearly communicated to you several times, if you don't like what the AMA is doing run for office.
10-11-2015, 09:32 AM
#1371
Since you continue to refuse to provide clear statements as well as spin and derail others' comments, I will continue to point out your fluff.
Difference between an actual encyclopedia and a dictionary?, or a difference in how each defines a conflict of interest? A definition is a definition, doesn't matter much where it comes from.
REALLY? intuitive to whom? YOU? NOT to me, not even close!! ONE MORE TIME......Just because YOU say so, doesn't make it so!! LOL
UHH....Yes, that is what we've been discussing (?) in these threads.....our opinions......I think if we've established anything at all in these threads, it's that there is NO single (or correct, or even largely agreed upon) definition.
You can repeat yourself all you want. It doesn't bring one ounce more credibility to what you are saying! (remember, "peanut butter"?).
Or, instead of actually running for office, he can do just what he is doing. Enlighten, educate and encourage AMA members to go vote their conscience.
Astro
You can deny it all you want, however, it's intuitively obvious how it applies here.
Again, that's your personal interpretation of hobby and Model Aviation
As clearly communicated to you several times, if you don't like what the AMA is doing run for office.
Or, instead of actually running for office, he can do just what he is doing. Enlighten, educate and encourage AMA members to go vote their conscience.
Astro
10-11-2015, 02:35 PM
#1372
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I cannot waste anymore time discussing these things that require a little logical discernment with anyone who so blatantly lacks in that department.
Moving on now to more sensible grounds with larger readership....
10-11-2015, 04:20 PM
#1374
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I know a couple of the pro drone guys are are unopposed: however, it is up to the membership to voice their discontent, if any.
A number of us have called our respective VP to discuss it.
You can also write, or send emails.
Next year's elections will me more relevant in this matter is we forcefully ask the candidates to announce their positions on these issues in their public statements prior to the election, like Lawrence id in District X.
A number of us have called our respective VP to discuss it.
You can also write, or send emails.
Next year's elections will me more relevant in this matter is we forcefully ask the candidates to announce their positions on these issues in their public statements prior to the election, like Lawrence id in District X.
10-11-2015, 06:20 PM
#1375
Frustrated as heck. I did send an emai, read his candidacy statement. His email back to me, "I hated to vote for the membership increase", he stated. Yeah right.