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Dues increase coming? 1 million spent on government relations.....

Old 11-22-2015, 04:29 AM
  #1826  
Chris P. Bacon
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Originally Posted by porcia83
Ah, the daily mantra here.
Old 11-22-2015, 04:41 AM
  #1827  
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Originally Posted by porcia83
Well wait a second there......SOME of us Northerners fly every days of the year One of our clubs best events is our frozen finger fun fly, Jan 1 of each year. Don't know if I mentioned but I sent a grant request to the AMA for individual solar powered heated huts for each member of the club to fly from, but I never heard back from them. You would think with all that money and property and that highfalutin museum they could have thrown me a few thousand dollars, after all, I pay dues. Rumor is they have stockpiled gold bullion in the basement.


Ha, ha, you snooze you loose! I submitted my application the second the submission window opened and my grant application got approved! That's right, approved! Not only that, we got approved for the deluxe model huts that include air conditioning for the Summer months. We also went with the natural gas powered huts because we can't be inconvenienced relying on solar power on cloudy days. We made sure we didn't leave any stone upturned and even included the 1/2 mile natural gas hook-up in our application. Better luck next year!
Old 11-22-2015, 04:45 AM
  #1828  
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Did you get the wifi/bluetooth as well? Color me green with crispy envy!
Old 11-22-2015, 05:09 AM
  #1829  
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Originally Posted by porcia83
AMA members are entitled to utilize the flying facilities at the IAC at no charge.
Actually it's $75.00 a year so there's a charge. Just like any local club your dues give you use of the club field.


Mike
Old 11-22-2015, 05:12 AM
  #1830  
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Originally Posted by porcia83
Ask for as if it's an entitlement you mean, because you're a dues payer? I wasn't aware that was one of the rights and priveldges of being an AMA member, that being the right to ask for some of my dues back for pet projects.

As you were last checking, did you notice that this private organization already does give money out, site grants and scholarships being just two examples? I know this won't be nearly enough, they have to give more and more money away to make everyone happy, but will it? Of course not, because then someone will come along complaining that they didn't get something, or that another group got more than they did.

Weren't you one of the folks complaining about the AMA's cash on hand position not that long ago too? The AMA is run like a business, not Pop Pop and Granny at Christmas time checking off wish list items.

(1) If they didn't want people to ask for money for projects, the program would not exist. Since the program is funded at least in part by dues, then yes indeed it is a members' right to ask.

(2) At the time, AMA was talking about establishing new fields. Our group came up with the hardest part of it, the land, but AMA wasn't interested in providing assistance because it would not have been open to every AMA member, yet they're well aware that already exists in AMA and they allow it. Why they drew a line in this case, we'll never know. Now, it's their right to say no, which they did, and in the end they not only didn't get a field free of encroachment, noise complaints, etc., they lost the field they had. Now, if that's acceptable to them, losing another field when they had the opportunity to get a great replacement, then so be it.

(3) Yes, I spoke about their cash on hand, but that was in the context of an overall financial health discussion and, you'll note, it's a trend that post dates the request.

(4) And someone below indicated that if weather during the summer was an issue, the what about spring / fall. Fair question. Unfortunately, the transition seasons & winter brought strong, gusty and variable winds, and when it wasn't windy, dense fog. Not to say their couldn't be a day here and there to fly, but the prime flying weather (except for heat) is in Jun-Aug.
Old 11-22-2015, 05:20 AM
  #1831  
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Originally Posted by Chris P. Bacon
Some? How about the guys who expect more than they'll ever put in?
So are you saying that AMA hands out grants, scholarships, etc. based on how much people put in?
Old 11-22-2015, 05:23 AM
  #1832  
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Originally Posted by porcia83
Did you get the wifi/bluetooth as well? Color me green with crispy envy!
Yes! I forgot to mention we got the deluxe hut personalization module (DHPM) which includes WiFi/BT. The DHPM allows each member to personalize a hut when they use it with their own temperature and humidity levels. Now we no longer have to listen to guys complaining at the field that it's too hot, too cold, or the humidity is too high/low.

Fortunately, they were running a special at the time we ordered so we got the DHPM for 50% off when we ordered eight deluxe huts.
Old 11-22-2015, 05:24 AM
  #1833  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m
So are you saying that AMA hands out grants, scholarships, etc. based on how much people put in?
No.
Old 11-22-2015, 05:38 AM
  #1834  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m
(1) If they didn't want people to ask for money for projects, the program would not exist. Since the program is funded at least in part by dues, then yes indeed it is a members' right to ask.

Absolutely, nothing wrong with asking. It's also the responsibility of those requesting to understand the terms and conditions of the program as well the goal of the program.

(2) At the time, AMA was talking about establishing new fields. Our group came up with the hardest part of it, the land, but AMA wasn't interested in providing assistance because it would not have been open to every AMA member, yet they're well aware that already exists in AMA and they allow it.

I already addressed this, just yesterday in fact.

Why they drew a line in this case, we'll never know. Now, it's their right to say no, which they did, and in the end they not only didn't get a field free of encroachment, noise complaints, etc., they lost the field they had. Now, if that's acceptable to them, losing another field when they had the opportunity to get a great replacement, then so be it.

What if the AMA didn't have the grant program to being with? Why couldn't the club find another suitable site outside of a military base? Why couldn't the club be resourceful and hold a fundraising event? Doesn't anyone know how to bake cupcakes anymore?

People need to take responsibilities for their own actions. It's the club's fault they didn't find another site and there's no one else to blame.


(3) Yes, I spoke about their cash on hand, but that was in the context of an overall financial health discussion and, you'll note, it's a trend that post dates the request.

(4) And someone below indicated that if weather during the summer was an issue, the what about spring / fall. Fair question. Unfortunately, the transition seasons & winter brought strong, gusty and variable winds, and when it wasn't windy, dense fog. Not to say their couldn't be a day here and there to fly, but the prime flying weather (except for heat) is in Jun-Aug.

People fly all over the world, including countries North & South of the US.
..
Old 11-22-2015, 05:44 AM
  #1835  
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Originally Posted by porcia83
Well wait a second there......SOME of us Northerners fly every days of the year One of our clubs best events is our frozen finger fun fly, Jan 1 of each year.
While the limits of your sarcasm know no bounds. As a reminder, the club obtained the permission to use flat land, free of encroachment, free from noise complaints, no overflight problems, and no obstacles. The club was going to provide all the labor, to include volunteer military members w/ particular construction skills on club funded rented equipment (dozer, rollers, etc.) to do site work. The club was going to fund the sunshades, pads, and pilot stations. All we asked was AMA help with the DG for the runway.

Now, you sarcastically questioned the decision to optimize for summer months. This accomplished a number of objectives. First, these projects on military installations take place under the umbrella of Morale, Welfare, and Recreation programs, which means they're targeted at the families. Second, the median age of the existing club members was over 60. They would form the primary cadre of instructors as we grew the club. Plus, if we ignored their needs due to advancing age, we would not have support for the move. Third, with daytime temperatures in triple digits for days and weeks at a time, large shaded areas were a safety issue for the members mentioned earlier. Fourth, our primary demographic targeted for membership growth was active duty military members and their dependants. Unfortunately, military members quite often work weekends, limiting their flying opportunities. Now add that their kids are in school during the week, and it gets hard for them to do it as a family. Hence another reason for targeting the summer months - even if parents still have to work weekends, the kids are at least out of school during the week.

The area is characterized by very high summer temperatures, with long periods in triple digits. In fact, my first summer there, it was above 110 for 13 days straight. Other than the heat, the flying is superb. Unlimited visibility, light winds, and no ceilings. Spring and fall, the transition seasons, were characterized by strong and gusty winds. Not impossible to fly, but opportunities are limited and not always aligned with availability of members. When not windy, in the spring/fall, there's often dense fog, reducing visibility to well less than 50 feet, ad it can last the entire day. During the winter, winds tend to be strong, but steady.

So, while you may not agree, there was logic and operational reasons why we wanted to optimize the field for summer use. We were looking for consistent use that aligned with the needs of the military family, and with an understanding of what time of the year was most likely to get new members out to the site, flying with the support of our existing members, and grow the club.
Old 11-22-2015, 05:51 AM
  #1836  
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Originally Posted by Chris P. Bacon
Why couldn't the club find another suitable site outside of a military base?
Not in an area where the few towns that do exist are almost totally surrounded by large commercial farming operations and year round crop dusting activities. No farmer was willing to accept the liability of having model aircraft operating on his land knowing that crop dusters would be transiting to and from any number of other fields at 500'. The military base option was the only way to find protected airspace.
Old 11-22-2015, 06:09 AM
  #1837  
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Originally Posted by porcia83
Tommy Tommy Tommy ... How can U say that first we don't even know if the FAA is going to accept any or all of the recommendations of the Task Force. Second if they adopt the registration of Pilots not their individual craft i.e. U need a Federal Number/License to fly anything in the NAS, it isn't any different than the AMA safety code requires of us now. Your AMA number on/in the plane or your Name Address and Phone number.
I still believe that anyone wanting to fly anything anyplace but a designated flying field should have to pass a computer administered Test on the Where and when they are allowed to fly anything but a Kite. I'm certain that 99.99% of AMA members could/should be able to pass such a test with out any trouble at all. Some may have to read the AMA Safety Code as a refresher. I really don't care to have those AMA members that don't understand or can't or won't
adhere to the AMA safety code flying near me anyway.
Old 11-22-2015, 07:00 AM
  #1838  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m
Not in an area where the few towns that do exist are almost totally surrounded by large commercial farming operations and year round crop dusting activities. No farmer was willing to accept the liability of having model aircraft operating on his land knowing that crop dusters would be transiting to and from any number of other fields at 500'. The military base option was the only way to find protected airspace.
That response is simply unacceptable. There are some flying fields in major cities in the US. Seems unlikely they were unable to locate a field in what appears to be farm country.

I've seen plenty of instances where modelers are unwilling to go out of there way to find a field and this sounds like one of them.
Old 11-22-2015, 07:19 AM
  #1839  
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Originally Posted by Chris P. Bacon
That response is simply unacceptable. There are some flying fields in major cities in the US. Seems unlikely they were unable to locate a field in what appears to be farm country.

I've seen plenty of instances where modelers are unwilling to go out of there way to find a field and this sounds like one of them.
Did it ever even occur to you that just maybe and I'm just guessing here that his situation is unique due to his area ? It's been known to happen from time to time. I've seen "plenty of instances were modelers" bust their butts to find a site to no avail.

Mike
Old 11-22-2015, 07:59 AM
  #1840  
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Originally Posted by rcmiket
Did it ever even occur to you that just maybe and I'm just guessing here that his situation is unique due to his area ? It's been known to happen from time to time. I've seen "plenty of instances were modelers" bust their butts to find a site to no avail.

Mike
That's a remote possibility, but:

1) The location remains unknown so it cannot be independently verified.
2) The number sites denied by landowners remains unknown.

Considering it appears as though they were 90+% there it appears more of a ploy to blame the AMA for the loos of their field rather than take responsibility for one's own actions.

Heck, there are even some clubs that have flying fields right in some of the largest cities in the USA.
Old 11-22-2015, 08:20 AM
  #1841  
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Model railroading, the only real estate problem is getting the wifey give in. No AMA card needed.
Old 11-22-2015, 09:00 AM
  #1842  
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Originally Posted by Tom Nied
Model railroading, the only real estate problem is getting the wifey give in. No AMA card needed
.
And U never have to search the corn or put the remains in a garbage bag. What fun is that? LOL
Old 11-22-2015, 09:15 AM
  #1843  
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Originally Posted by Tom Nied
Model railroading, the only real estate problem is getting the wifey give in. No AMA card needed.

Ive still got several large boxes full of my Lionel trains , the hobby that went dormant for me about 45 years ago when I financially had to choose between them or RC airplanes . My best setup had all the signals & other operating equipment activated by my own homemade sections of track that had one of the outside rails insulated (in the same way the middle rail was) . The normal setup had the middle rail insulated and the two outside ones connected together , But the train really only needed the middle rail and one of the outside rails to bring it power . By insulating the other "unused" rail , and wiring it such that when the train passed over with it's solid metal wheels electrical contact was made to the other outside rail , an invisible switch was made that activated whatever signal the train passed by . I had folks who really knew electricity stumped , looking under the table for the "hidden" switch that was activating these devices and the system worked flawlessly .

And no model railroad inspectors ever knocked on my door .........
Old 11-22-2015, 09:33 AM
  #1844  
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Originally Posted by Tom Nied
Model railroading, the only real estate problem is getting the wifey give in. No AMA card needed.
now THAT is a whole other level of addiction. A few of the guys in our club are into that. That can get pricey. One dude is into the mini steam locomotives too...cha ching !!!
Old 11-22-2015, 09:39 AM
  #1845  
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Originally Posted by HoundDog
Tommy Tommy Tommy ... How can U say that first we don't even know if the FAA is going to accept any or all of the recommendations of the Task Force. Second if they adopt the registration of Pilots not their individual craft i.e. U need a Federal Number/License to fly anything in the NAS, it isn't any different than the AMA safety code requires of us now. Your AMA number on/in the plane or your Name Address and Phone number.
I still believe that anyone wanting to fly anything anyplace but a designated flying field should have to pass a computer administered Test on the Where and when they are allowed to fly anything but a Kite. I'm certain that 99.99% of AMA members could/should be able to pass such a test with out any trouble at all. Some may have to read the AMA Safety Code as a refresher. I really don't care to have those AMA members that don't understand or can't or won't
adhere to the AMA safety code flying near me anyway.
Doggy Doggy Doggy.....



.....my comment/pic was in response to post 1821. None of us knows what's going to happen until it happens.......we gotta hope and wait and see.
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Old 11-22-2015, 09:42 AM
  #1846  
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Originally Posted by rcmiket
Actually it's $75.00 a year so there's a charge. Just like any local club your dues give you use of the club field.


Mike

Okey dokey...your dues get you access to your club....not other clubs. So yes...pedanrty aside in order to fly at the field for free as an AMA member you ultimately had to have paid for a membership....but you're not paying EXTRA to fly there. I know some clubs will allow any AMA member to fly, however they charge a "guest fee"...which for the record I think sucks.
Old 11-22-2015, 09:48 AM
  #1847  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m
While the limits of your sarcasm know no bounds. As a reminder, the club obtained the permission to use flat land, free of encroachment, free from noise complaints, no overflight problems, and no obstacles. The club was going to provide all the labor, to include volunteer military members w/ particular construction skills on club funded rented equipment (dozer, rollers, etc.) to do site work. The club was going to fund the sunshades, pads, and pilot stations. All we asked was AMA help with the DG for the runway.

Now, you sarcastically questioned the decision to optimize for summer months. This accomplished a number of objectives. First, these projects on military installations take place under the umbrella of Morale, Welfare, and Recreation programs, which means they're targeted at the families. Second, the median age of the existing club members was over 60. They would form the primary cadre of instructors as we grew the club. Plus, if we ignored their needs due to advancing age, we would not have support for the move. Third, with daytime temperatures in triple digits for days and weeks at a time, large shaded areas were a safety issue for the members mentioned earlier. Fourth, our primary demographic targeted for membership growth was active duty military members and their dependants. Unfortunately, military members quite often work weekends, limiting their flying opportunities. Now add that their kids are in school during the week, and it gets hard for them to do it as a family. Hence another reason for targeting the summer months - even if parents still have to work weekends, the kids are at least out of school during the week.

The area is characterized by very high summer temperatures, with long periods in triple digits. In fact, my first summer there, it was above 110 for 13 days straight. Other than the heat, the flying is superb. Unlimited visibility, light winds, and no ceilings. Spring and fall, the transition seasons, were characterized by strong and gusty winds. Not impossible to fly, but opportunities are limited and not always aligned with availability of members. When not windy, in the spring/fall, there's often dense fog, reducing visibility to well less than 50 feet, ad it can last the entire day. During the winter, winds tend to be strong, but steady.

So, while you may not agree, there was logic and operational reasons why we wanted to optimize the field for summer use. We were looking for consistent use that aligned with the needs of the military family, and with an understanding of what time of the year was most likely to get new members out to the site, flying with the support of our existing members, and grow the club.
LOL dude...you're so quick to castigate others for being sarcastic, and you didn't even reply to the right post. Sarcastically ironic eh? fwiw a little sarcasm and good natured humor never hurt...if one can dish it out, one should be ready to get it right back. Some people take this stuff far to seriously.

for the record, I wasn't trying to be funny or sarcastic with the comment about flying in the winter...we fly everyday of the year weather permitting. If you are ever up this way you're more than welcome to come on in and freeze with the rest of us. 60 or so peeps use this for warmth....

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Old 11-22-2015, 09:53 AM
  #1848  
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Originally Posted by porcia83
Okey dokey...your dues get you access to your club....not other clubs. So yes...pedanrty aside in order to fly at the field for free as an AMA member you ultimately had to have paid for a membership....but you're not paying EXTRA to fly there. I know some clubs will allow any AMA member to fly, however they charge a "guest fee"...which for the record I think sucks.
All I said was since only current a AMA member has access to Muncie than there is a fee (your 75.00 dues) to use it. Nowhere did I mention access to any other club sites did I? Now in my case I pay my AMA dues and do not have access to the Muncie site due to my proximity to the site. So in my case I am paying "extra " for a site I cannot use since my dues support it.

Mike.
Old 11-22-2015, 10:01 AM
  #1849  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m
(1) If they didn't want people to ask for money for projects, the program would not exist. Since the program is funded at least in part by dues, then yes indeed it is a members' right to ask.

Right...and they do have programs and do have people ask for funds, and they most certainly do in fact honor some of those requests. They can't fulfill all of them.


(2) At the time, AMA was talking about establishing new fields. Our group came up with the hardest part of it, the land, but AMA wasn't interested in providing assistance because it would not have been open to every AMA member, yet they're well aware that already exists in AMA and they allow it. Why they drew a line in this case, we'll never know. Now, it's their right to say no, which they did, and in the end they not only didn't get a field free of encroachment, noise complaints, etc., they lost the field they had. Now, if that's acceptable to them, losing another field when they had the opportunity to get a great replacement, then so be it.

Why they drew a line in the sand.....perhaps it was the whole DOD involvement that might have been the sticky wicket in that situation. Even you have to admit that is not something they have probably come up against 99.99 percent of the time, and the lack of ability for people outside that base to use it was clearly the reason (well..perhaps the reason).


(3) Yes, I spoke about their cash on hand, but that was in the context of an overall financial health discussion and, you'll note, it's a trend that post dates the request.

Pre or post..if they just grant every request they end up having less money on hand, are less healthy financially, and then get hammered for being poor planners etc etc. Another no win for them.
(4) And someone below indicated that if weather during the summer was an issue, the what about spring / fall. Fair question. Unfortunately, the transition seasons & winter brought strong, gusty and variable winds, and when it wasn't windy, dense fog. Not to say their couldn't be a day here and there to fly, but the prime flying weather (except for heat) is in Jun-Aug.

Even more of a reason to think twice about funding a club where the best time to fly is a 3 month time period. Again, plenty of clubs in the Northeast that fly year round, in 100 degree heat, and 20 degree weather with 25mph gusts. Miserable conditions at times...but we're flying!
Old 11-22-2015, 10:03 AM
  #1850  
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Originally Posted by rcmiket
All I said was since only current a AMA member has access to Muncie than there is a fee (your 75.00 dues) to use it. Nowhere did I mention access to any other club sites did I? Now in my case I pay my AMA dues and do not have access to the Muncie site due to my proximity to the site. So in my case I am paying "extra " for a site I cannot use since my dues support it.

Mike.
oh good lord you are not paying "extra".....no more than I am paying extra. Let's just both go there and fly at the darn field so we can get our moneys worth!

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