MajorTomski

Please this is NOT discussion against FPV, I’m posting in the AMA forums because I’m seeing this activity in AMA clubs.

I’d really like to know if anyone else is experiencing this.

It has occurred to me, that there are number of people who come to our club for the single purpose of flying FPV do so with extremely unhealthy narcissistic traits:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism

Without exception these individuals consistently behave with the following attitudes or actions:

• The club safety rules and the AMA guidelines don’t apply to them.
• When it’s pointed out that the club rules and the AMA guidelines are there for everyone’s benefit, they attack or insult the individual that is pointing out the non-compliance with the rules.
• They can’t wait to get their latest FPV adventure up on YouTube, no mater how boring, dangerous, or non-compliant with the above guidelines it is.
• This metro area has nine RC club flying fields, Most folks belong to one or maybe two clubs depending on location and specialties, i.e. one club is exclusively pattern another exclusively scale. The FPV narcissists belong to three or more of the clubs so that more folks can admire what they do.
• Then, when they get board with the folks at the RC fields, they’ll take their skills, quads and cameras to the city parks to take more boring videos to post on YouTube. Even when there are city LAWS prohibiting operating RC aircraft in those parks.

Now before you go off on he’s just another anti-FPV old fogie, I flew my firs FPV flight back in the mid 90’s when you actually had to work at getting any meaningful results. I AM NOT against FPV. But part of the reason I fly RC is to get out into and enjoy the out doors. To me, I see modern FPV'ers sitting at a bench at the flying field with their TV glasses on and wonder; "Why did they ever leave the house, they could have just as easily done the same thing sitting in their living room?"

The question here is: Is FPV bringing the ultimate ‘raised by television’ generation into the aviation hobby and are those people hurting the hobby with a “ME and only ME FIRST” attitude?

Has anyone else seen this type of behavior in newer FPV pilots?

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Excuse the snippet...just want to get to the meat here. For someone that say's they are not against FPV, you sure dug in hard and fast... Anyway, your perception is just that, your perception. My perception finds that same narcissism everywhere...yep, even with us guys that fly little airplanes that have wings too... I think this condition is worsening and will continue to as long as 'man' or better yet "controlled society" is perceived to have the answer to our problems today.

cj_rumley

A real narcissist would have a selfie stick attached to his transmitter.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

LOOKA ME Y'ALL...!!!

I must say...I buy into this notion.
There's a little bit of this in full scale as well as traditional RCers too.

phlpsfrnk

The aviation community including modelers is not the only group that has people that suffer from narcissistic tendencies.

Frank

bradpaul

Hey.................. I resemble that remark!!!!!!!!

phlpsfrnk

Well there you go.......something we agree on again.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Well Brad is not all that bad...but one sure sign is a photo of one's self in their avatar...no doubt a selfie person...

phlpsfrnk

Well you old dog you!!.... again I agree.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Hey...there are a lot worse things than you and I agreeing... LOL

phlpsfrnk

LOL Yea, we might even get Brad agreeing with us.

MajorTomski

I wholeheartedly agree that I’ve seen arrogant, egotistical, prima donna behavior at one time or another out of any of us who wear the ‘pilot’ badge in either 1:1 or smaller scales. But anything I’ve seen in the past pails to the arrogant “Me first”, “You are an A--hole and your rules are stupid!” absolutely un civil, un cooperative nature of this latest crop of new ‘pilots’ that have shown up at our field. It will be interesting to see if or how long they stick around once people stop being impressed.

Thank you cj. That put a perfect frame around the whole situation. I’d wondered why that one guy had what I thought was an old 72 MHz radio.

Thank you for your feedback gentlemen.

bradpaul

Well if the highest paid CEO in the US is the 39 year old CEO of GoPro, it looks like narcissism pays off...................................

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...id-ceo-in-2014

TimJ

My Local area, the case is just the opposite. Every member wants to fly safely and follow the guidelines set by the AMA. There will always be the few exceptions, but that applies to fixed wing model pilots and Heli pilots. You can't just single out FPV / Multi-Rotor pilots. Maybe it is more in the way of how you reprimand your offending pilots?

Your "Me First" comment, just leads me to believe you must be of an older generation similar to the "Get off my lawn" generation.


Everyone should be happy our hobby is getting a little boost. Instead of being negative at the field, why not take those pilots under your wing and help assimilate them to the local flying culture?
No reason to be negative just because they fly a JET, IMAC, 3D, SCALE WARBIRD, or even a multi-rotor.

For the most part, people want to be safe and follow the rules. It really boils down to how you approach the situation.

MajorTomski

And that is the precise dilemma that lead me to ask the question in the first place. With several of these new individuals the reaction is almost the same. ANY approach, in any manner like being kind, or trying to start a discussion, or asking "Would you please consider...?" results in "Not my fault" or "You're an A-ole" or "the rules are stupid and don't apply to me."

I've spent 38 years working in industry and in management and the lack of the slightest willingness to cooperate, has several of us befuddled.

TimJ

I find that very hard to believe that the group as a whole is unwilling to cooperate. I understand a few select people, but not a majority of the group. That is just too far out there.

If your club has a way to document incidents, it will give you leverage to toss out perpetual guideline violators, or those that think they are above the guidelines. They signed the application to be an AMA member, they are required to follow the guidelines at that point.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Yea...getting old sucks. Just can't help but wonder what AMA rules the "me first" group Tom speaks of violate...I mean AMA rules are fairly benign when you get right down to it... I fly at a lot of events and with many different clubs and I see almost zero rule violations...but I am probably a little younger... LOL

MajorTomski

http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/550.pdf

Paragraphs 3.b) through f).

http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/105.pdf

Paragraphs A.1.(a) & (b), A.2.(b), (f), B.3.(d), B.9.(a) & (b).

And Tim J, let me clarify; there isn't 'a whole group', there are three individuals, who are the newest members to the club, and they fly FPV exclusively. And as originally stated, the first response from these individuals is "Your an A**^ole for pointing out there are rules and your rules are stupid."

TimJ

Notice Crankshaft, I say Guidelines? Clubs make rules. AMA create guidelines.

MajorTomski, three members, sounds like 3 bad apples and the actions of the few. Most multi-rotor pilots in my area want to be safe, and want to enjoy their aircraft much like fixed wing pilots want. Have your field safety officer or field marshal document the issues? Maybe recommend that your field safety officer bring a set of AMA guidelines and FPV guidelines and remind those pilots that they agreed to follow those guidelines when they signed up to be members of the AMA. If they still believe the safety guidelines are not for them, maybe their club membership badges need to be pulled, and the three members can show up to a board of directors meeting to explain to the board why they think they do not need to follow the guidelines. Then your board of directors can make the decision as to the future of their memberships. Maybe the three bad apples will realize the seriousness of the deal. They will do one of two things, fall in step with the rest of the group, or say F this, were going to go fly elsewhere.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

While you make some excellent points...especially procedurally speaking. I look at guidelines as strong suggestions or even as recommendations. When certain words like "must" "required", "shall not" "will not" etc.. are used they rise to the level of rules for me. In my mind guidelines tend to use words like "avoid", "should" "could"... I think AMA does indeed have some rules...and they are pretty well thought out, worded well and are reasonable. I have long held the position that unless the flying site has particular concerns or constraints, we should be ever vigilant to exercise prudence before enacting more as they may be construed against the maker, no matter the how good the intentions. Never want to add exposure to liability or produce a situation that someone may suffer because of poorly worded club rules.

MajorTomski

Again gentlemen thank you for your input and feed back.

I'm envious that you have muti-rotor FPV members that understand and live up to the responsibilities of enjoying this new technology hobby.

I started this thread asking if any of you have seen narcissistic traits in newer FPV flyers. This seems to be the case with our three problem individuals. And that is the problem because they do not react in the same ways as emotionally healthier individuals react. I found this:

The lead antagonist in this situation responded EXACTLY as this paragraph describes. When presented with the AMA codes and the city law he violated, His response was to attack me attempting to point out that a job I have is 'illegal' and should be stopped. I challenged him; I gave him the name and number of the individual to call to have me stopped and fined for my 'illegal' activity. His response; "He's probably an A**>ole just like you!": and he's faded out of my view. Hopefully he'll just quit coming to the club flying site altogether.

Actually, the club has been such a nice friendly organization for so long that no one wants to handle a disciplining problem.

Again thank you for your time.

TimJ

Ahh. that is a bummer MajorTomski. Sorry you have to deal with that. The nice part is most of the time guys like that, don't stick around in the hobby for very long. They come and go very quickly.

Littlecrankshaft, you amaze me. Here I am thinking you don't have an ounce of sensibility, and there you go making that post.

phlpsfrnk

Yea, He surprises me too occasionally and we wind up agreeing on something. Aren't these internet forums amazing? Go figure!

Frank

Sport_Pilot

I thought it was the pattern and giant aerobatic guys that thought they were Gods gift to modelers? The FPV guys just like to post pictures of the earth, not themselves. What is narcissistic about that? It's the combat guys that think rules don't apply to them. So I see parts of these traits spread across all as well.

Sport_Pilot

If the club is not enforcing the AMA guidelines then the club may lose their charter, which means those guidelines are actually rules.