Proposed Drone Law in California
10-01-2015, 10:10 AM
#451
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$309,000 = X of 1.5% annual budget
$309,000= X times .015
$309,000 / .015 = X
$20.6 Million annual budget = X....[!]
$20,6 / 150,000 members = $137 per member spent......that's impressive...!
I'm surprised our crispy "business expert" allowed the obvious fallacy with these numbers to slip past his signature, sanctimonious review with such incompetent ease.
$309,000= X times .015
$309,000 / .015 = X
$20.6 Million annual budget = X....[!]
$20,6 / 150,000 members = $137 per member spent......that's impressive...!
I'm surprised our crispy "business expert" allowed the obvious fallacy with these numbers to slip past his signature, sanctimonious review with such incompetent ease.
In an age where well established, privately owned magazines are going out of business it is remarkable that the PPP mag with only a 2700 circulation can not only make it, but also command high enough advertising rates to afford to pay full time staff, publishing costs, postage, etc. with only $81,000 in dues up front.
How many privately owned businesses [in the Real World with no safety net] would be foolish enough to pursue something that looks as bleak as this...?
How many privately owned businesses [in the Real World with no safety net] would be foolish enough to pursue something that looks as bleak as this...?
You speak as if it looks bleak. Well at the time, Park Flyers were the rage. So from that perspective the program was looking great. But at the same time, the economy dumped hard. So all of that potential went out the window with the economy.
You can sit back in your basement all day long and play keyboard jockey and claim the AMA elected and hired staff are doing things wrong. Opinions are like a55 holes, everyone has one. Instead of sitting back and saying they [AMA] are doing it wrong, STEP UP and VOLUNTEER! You seem to think you know what is going on. Step up. Do something to help benefit the AMA and it's members. I guaranty you, that once you do volunteer, get your hands dirty and actually pay attention to what is happening within the AMA and at the clubs around you, the realization of WHY things are accomplished and pursued will happen........
10-01-2015, 10:36 AM
#452
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The AMA is a business. A non-profit business. Thinking of the AMA any other way would be incorrect. Now I say this because the inner-workings of how the AMA and many non-profits are structured and ran are not much different.
Actually approximately $2 dollars per member was spent to start the program. I can't see how that is an absurd amount of money to get the program running.
I will remind you again. You may not agree with the decision, but at least the AMA put forth an attempt. A total failure would be for the AMA to NOT attempt anything to gain more members.
Since according to you, obtaining the "Real numbers" is like picking up a loaf of bread, why don't you lead by example...?
I stated that the PPP spent A LOT per each member and I'm still waiting for you to disprove it after you challenged the accuracy / integrity of that statement.
It's on you now, Hot Shot.
I stated that the PPP spent A LOT per each member and I'm still waiting for you to disprove it after you challenged the accuracy / integrity of that statement.
It's on you now, Hot Shot.
I will remind you again. You may not agree with the decision, but at least the AMA put forth an attempt. A total failure would be for the AMA to NOT attempt anything to gain more members.
10-01-2015, 11:50 AM
#453
Sorry Sir, but you would be wrong. Also so would be my percentage. It's closer to 5 percent. But I did say approximately.
The PPP on it's own would never make it. But because there is a well established magazine and staff for Model Aviation, the cost is much lower than most magazines to keep it running. Also, the Ad revenue helps tremendously as well. So the PPP is a slightly different situation.
You speak as if it looks bleak. Well at the time, Park Flyers were the rage. So from that perspective the program was looking great. But at the same time, the economy dumped hard. So all of that potential went out the window with the economy.
You can sit back in your basement all day long and play keyboard jockey and claim the AMA elected and hired staff are doing things wrong. Opinions are like a55 holes, everyone has one. Instead of sitting back and saying they [AMA] are doing it wrong, STEP UP and VOLUNTEER! You seem to think you know what is going on. Step up. Do something to help benefit the AMA and it's members. I guaranty you, that once you do volunteer, get your hands dirty and actually pay attention to what is happening within the AMA and at the clubs around you, the realization of WHY things are accomplished and pursued will happen........
The PPP on it's own would never make it. But because there is a well established magazine and staff for Model Aviation, the cost is much lower than most magazines to keep it running. Also, the Ad revenue helps tremendously as well. So the PPP is a slightly different situation.
You speak as if it looks bleak. Well at the time, Park Flyers were the rage. So from that perspective the program was looking great. But at the same time, the economy dumped hard. So all of that potential went out the window with the economy.
You can sit back in your basement all day long and play keyboard jockey and claim the AMA elected and hired staff are doing things wrong. Opinions are like a55 holes, everyone has one. Instead of sitting back and saying they [AMA] are doing it wrong, STEP UP and VOLUNTEER! You seem to think you know what is going on. Step up. Do something to help benefit the AMA and it's members. I guaranty you, that once you do volunteer, get your hands dirty and actually pay attention to what is happening within the AMA and at the clubs around you, the realization of WHY things are accomplished and pursued will happen........
how can you with any serious suggest that some basement dwelling keyboard jockey could have intervened and saved the day..?
It's time to get realistic, guy.
10-01-2015, 11:54 AM
#454
The AMA is a business. A non-profit business. Thinking of the AMA any other way would be incorrect. Now I say this because the inner-workings of how the AMA and many non-profits are structured and ran are not much different.
Actually approximately $2 dollars per member was spent to start the program. I can't see how that is an absurd amount of money to get the program running.
I will remind you again. You may not agree with the decision, but at least the AMA put forth an attempt. A total failure would be for the AMA to NOT attempt anything to gain more members.
Actually approximately $2 dollars per member was spent to start the program. I can't see how that is an absurd amount of money to get the program running.
I will remind you again. You may not agree with the decision, but at least the AMA put forth an attempt. A total failure would be for the AMA to NOT attempt anything to gain more members.
The cost of the PPP was not used to recruit pre-existing AMA members into the program. It was used to recruit the 600 [or so] newbies that they were able to haul in the first year and all expenditures are factored in to calculate what new members cost to recruit in subsequent years.
10-01-2015, 01:23 PM
#455
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The idea of PPP was not to bring in existing AMA members. It was to bring in the new comer.
And at the same time PPP was started, the economy nose dived. So sadly the timing was not good.
The interesting thing is 2014 was the first year that revenues were higher than expenses for PP. So things seem to be turning around.
And at the same time PPP was started, the economy nose dived. So sadly the timing was not good.
The interesting thing is 2014 was the first year that revenues were higher than expenses for PP. So things seem to be turning around.
10-01-2015, 02:27 PM
#456
The idea of PPP was not to bring in existing AMA members. It was to bring in the new comer.
And at the same time PPP was started, the economy nose dived. So sadly the timing was not good.
The interesting thing is 2014 was the first year that revenues were higher than expenses for PP. So things seem to be turning around.
And at the same time PPP was started, the economy nose dived. So sadly the timing was not good.
The interesting thing is 2014 was the first year that revenues were higher than expenses for PP. So things seem to be turning around.
The economy tanking had little to do with this program's chances of squeezing blood out of a turnip.
10-01-2015, 02:40 PM
#457
"A business, also known as an enterprise or a firm, is an organization involved in the of goods, services, or both to consumers."
"Businesses may also be not-for-profit or state-owned."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business
"Businesses may also be not-for-profit or state-owned."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business
10-01-2015, 02:43 PM
#458
Since according to you, obtaining the "Real numbers" is like picking up a loaf of bread, why don't you lead by example...?
I stated that the PPP spent A LOT per each member and I'm still waiting for you to disprove it after you challenged the accuracy / integrity of that statement.
It's on you now, Hot Shot.
I stated that the PPP spent A LOT per each member and I'm still waiting for you to disprove it after you challenged the accuracy / integrity of that statement.
It's on you now, Hot Shot.
10-01-2015, 02:47 PM
#459
The AMA is a business. A non-profit business. Thinking of the AMA any other way would be incorrect. Now I say this because the inner-workings of how the AMA and many non-profits are structured and ran are not much different.
Exactly.
Actually approximately $2 dollars per member was spent to start the program. I can't see how that is an absurd amount of money to get the program running.
Me neither. $2 per member seems very reasonable to me.
I will remind you again. You may not agree with the decision, but at least the AMA put forth an attempt. A total failure would be for the AMA to NOT attempt anything to gain more members.
Exactly.
Actually approximately $2 dollars per member was spent to start the program. I can't see how that is an absurd amount of money to get the program running.
Me neither. $2 per member seems very reasonable to me.
I will remind you again. You may not agree with the decision, but at least the AMA put forth an attempt. A total failure would be for the AMA to NOT attempt anything to gain more members.
10-01-2015, 02:52 PM
#460
Keep dodging the facts you can't reference. porcia83 was dead on.
You made it sound so easy, like picking up a loaf of bread at 7/11...what gives...?
10-01-2015, 03:00 PM
#461
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The AMA is a business. A non-profit business. Thinking of the AMA any other way would be incorrect. Now I say this because the inner-workings of how the AMA and many non-profits are structured and ran are not much different.
Actually approximately $2 dollars per member was spent to start the program. I can't see how that is an absurd amount of money to get the program running.
I will remind you again. You may not agree with the decision, but at least the AMA put forth an attempt. A total failure would be for the AMA to NOT attempt anything to gain more members.
Actually approximately $2 dollars per member was spent to start the program. I can't see how that is an absurd amount of money to get the program running.
I will remind you again. You may not agree with the decision, but at least the AMA put forth an attempt. A total failure would be for the AMA to NOT attempt anything to gain more members.
"A business, also known as an enterprise or a firm, is an organization involved in the of goods, services, or both to consumers."
"Businesses may also be not-for-profit or state-owned."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business
"Businesses may also be not-for-profit or state-owned."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business
Mike
10-01-2015, 03:35 PM
#463
The AMA is a Public Utility, and Utilities have to make smart business decisions in order to serve the subscribers as economically as possible. Otherwise, it's the subscribers who end up footing the bill for gross mismanagement.
Both Utilities and government agencies tend to crave expansion and of course more opportunities to play with the operating capital that they maintain in the public's trust.
Both Utilities and government agencies tend to crave expansion and of course more opportunities to play with the operating capital that they maintain in the public's trust.
10-01-2015, 05:20 PM
#464
The AMA is a Public Utility, and Utilities have to make smart business decisions in order to serve the subscribers as economically as possible. Otherwise, it's the subscribers who end up footing the bill for gross mismanagement.
Both Utilities and government agencies tend to crave expansion and of course more opportunities to play with the operating capital that they maintain in the public's trust.
Both Utilities and government agencies tend to crave expansion and of course more opportunities to play with the operating capital that they maintain in the public's trust.
"In the United States, public utilities are often natural monopolies because the infrastructure required to produce and deliver a product such as electricity or water is very expensive to build and maintain.[SUP][5][/SUP] As a result, they are often government monopolies, or if privately owned, the sectors are specially regulated by a public utilities commission.[SUP][1][/SUP][SUP][2][/SUP][SUP][3][/SUP] The first public utility in the United States was a grist mill on Mother Brook in Dedham, Massachusetts.[SUP][6][/SUP]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_utility
10-01-2015, 05:23 PM
#465
10-01-2015, 05:24 PM
#466
Why would I kid? Still not able to cite your numbers as published from the AMA? Still believing everything you read in a public internet forum?
10-01-2015, 05:28 PM
#467
Continue to deflect, and now you double down on something not even related to what we're talking about. Transparent much?
Might want to dig a little online to see how well that magazine does for the AMA. You must have missed the thread where people complained ENDLESSLY about all the ads, oh lord there are so many of them in there. Ya know, the ads that generate revenue for the magazine, and subsequently for the AMA.
Time to put up.......I'll put up $20.00 donation to the Wounder Warrior program if you can show demonstrably, how the MA magazine is a net loser in the past two years. You prove it, I pay and send you validation of that. If you can't, make out a check to the AMA site assistance program. I'll take you at your word that you paid.
You game?
Might want to dig a little online to see how well that magazine does for the AMA. You must have missed the thread where people complained ENDLESSLY about all the ads, oh lord there are so many of them in there. Ya know, the ads that generate revenue for the magazine, and subsequently for the AMA.
Time to put up.......I'll put up $20.00 donation to the Wounder Warrior program if you can show demonstrably, how the MA magazine is a net loser in the past two years. You prove it, I pay and send you validation of that. If you can't, make out a check to the AMA site assistance program. I'll take you at your word that you paid.
You game?
10-01-2015, 05:43 PM
#468
Too bad the AMA doesn't produce water or electricity. Until then, you're not even close.
"In the United States, public utilities are often natural monopolies because the infrastructure required to produce and deliver a product such as electricity or water is very expensive to build and maintain.[SUP][5][/SUP] As a result, they are often government monopolies, or if privately owned, the sectors are specially regulated by a public utilities commission.[SUP][1][/SUP][SUP][2][/SUP][SUP][3][/SUP] The first public utility in the United States was a grist mill on Mother Brook in Dedham, Massachusetts.[SUP][6][/SUP]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_utility
"In the United States, public utilities are often natural monopolies because the infrastructure required to produce and deliver a product such as electricity or water is very expensive to build and maintain.[SUP][5][/SUP] As a result, they are often government monopolies, or if privately owned, the sectors are specially regulated by a public utilities commission.[SUP][1][/SUP][SUP][2][/SUP][SUP][3][/SUP] The first public utility in the United States was a grist mill on Mother Brook in Dedham, Massachusetts.[SUP][6][/SUP]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_utility
Sounds enough like the AMA to satisfy me.
If it doesn't please you, don't dwell on it..just look for something else to be unhappy about...LOL.
10-01-2015, 05:49 PM
#469
Try this on for size...A public utility (usually just utility) is an organization that maintains theinfrastructure for a public service (often also providing a service using that infrastructure). Public utilities are subject to forms of public control and regulation ranging from local community-based groups to statewide government monopolies.
Sounds enough like the AMA to satisfy me.
If it doesn't please you, don't dwell on it..just look for something else to be unhappy about...LOL.
Sounds enough like the AMA to satisfy me.
If it doesn't please you, don't dwell on it..just look for something else to be unhappy about...LOL.
Too bad the AMA doesn't have any infrastructure.
Infrastructure refers to the fundamental facilities and systems serving a country, city, or area,[SUP][1][/SUP] including the services and facilities necessary for its economy to function.[SUP][2][/SUP]
10-01-2015, 06:11 PM
#470
Still unable to provide any meaningful content on your own?
Too bad the AMA doesn't have any infrastructure.
Infrastructure refers to the fundamental facilities and systems serving a country, city, or area,[SUP][1][/SUP] including the services and facilities necessary for its economy to function.[SUP][2][/SUP]
Too bad the AMA doesn't have any infrastructure.
Infrastructure refers to the fundamental facilities and systems serving a country, city, or area,[SUP][1][/SUP] including the services and facilities necessary for its economy to function.[SUP][2][/SUP]
So, as usual your weak attempts to discredit my observations meet with EPIC FAIL..
10-01-2015, 06:19 PM
#471
You're the only one discrediting yourself due to your lack of basic understanding.
10-01-2015, 06:52 PM
#472
It actually didn't occur to me that the AMA qualifies as a Utility until I read the arguing [today] over whether or not it is a business. I think this is a "novel" way to look at how it serves us and if you disagree with that...that's just too bad.
10-02-2015, 04:23 AM
#473
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"We only see it as a business because it is a business. One only need apply the most basic definition of the English language to realize that. "
You did not need to respond but since you took the time. If "because it is" is your reason than because it isn't would be mine.
You are free to believe what you want.
Thanks
Mike
You did not need to respond but since you took the time. If "because it is" is your reason than because it isn't would be mine.
You are free to believe what you want.
Thanks
Mike
Last edited by rcmiket; 10-02-2015 at 06:42 AM. Reason: Wrong Qoute
10-02-2015, 09:13 AM
#475
"We only see it as a business because it is a business. One only need apply the most basic definition of the English language to realize that. "
You did not need to respond but since you took the time. If "because it is" is your reason than because it isn't would be mine.
You are free to believe what you want.
Thanks
Mike
You did not need to respond but since you took the time. If "because it is" is your reason than because it isn't would be mine.
You are free to believe what you want.
Thanks
Mike
