porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

I think we've seen 150k give or take as the membership number, but I just saw this again in another thread, meeting notes from the January EC meeting:

"......Sessions explained how the government measures inflation. Using the inflation adjustments from 1997, this would put our dues at $70.92; if we adjusted from 2003, the dues would be $74.44. (This goes through 2014, a dues increase would not take effect until 2016.) It was recommended that dues be increased to $75; it has been 13 years since dues were reviewed. Sessions believes this subject should be put on a cycle and reviewed every few years. In 2003 membership numbers were about 172,000; we are 175,000 now....."

Again, there number references members, not the level of membership. If that number is correct as of January of 2015, the numbers might have gone up or down in the past 9 months. I'm guessing up because of the dues "discount", so at least it's a number to work from. There has to be some past data to track how many folks leave the AMA on average every year as well, and how many "new" members have joined over the past 5 years. What does all mean, who knows, but we probably won't be able to really track the rise or decline in membership til at least spet of 2016, then again in 2017. If there is a huge drop, it might be attributed ultimately to the dues increase. Perhaps that will cause the cycle of reviewing dues increased every couple of years to every 5-7, or more.

rcmiket

Agreed, that's one of the reasons I use 2 ( possibly 3) years to get the full impact of the increase along with the direction of our organization will have on membership numbers.When the 2016 bills go we'll see just how many just didn't know this was coming. Not everyone uses these forums or even opens MA. It should be interesting either way.

Mike

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

Well, alrighty then......here ya go!

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Since this thread is kind of dead, and only really pertains to California, I will post a copy of this letter in one of the other, more current and more pertinent threads.

Regards,

Astro

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

It WAS dead, but once he sees THIS he'll be in Emergency Damage Control Mode until he fries RCU's server...!

rcmiket

LOL Here comes the dynamic duo they'll be in full spin and defect mode. I think the "Emergency Damage Control Mode" it's great.

Mike

Sport_Pilot

None of those companies represents a very large share of the hobby market. How does Hobbico and Horizon feel about the subject?

Also neither the AMA nor the FAA determined what is or is not a Model Airplane. That was done by congress. AMA only represents those "following CBO guidelines".

rcmiket

It's the content of the letter that's important and I agree with it 100%.

Mike

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Well the good news is it looks like they picked up 2 more signatures over the past 6 weeks, so that's a plus.

Kudos to them the their efforts. Not easy to get 14 people to agree on something, codify that, then do something about it. There are some flaws in the letter from my perspective, the most glaring of which is the date it was sent. My first thought was where has this group been over the past two years.

But again, good on them for doing something, anything actually, more than just commenting on websites. A for effort, C for accuracy and execution.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Irony....another dynamic due..always looking for the drama.

No damage mode, just one person's perspective on it. Different strokes/different folks...ya know how that goes right? I applaud their efforts, some tweaking to the letter and their execution might have been suggested. I made more detailed comments in the other thread, I'll leave that there. Not sure if every possible AMA thread will have the letter updated in it though.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

You are absolutely correct here of course. It's a relatively small group, no big retailers. Of course, these 14 folks represent a somewhat narrow slice of the hobby as well, the larger retailers of course cater to the broadest spectrum.

Excellent point to on who is doing the defining...hard to change congress's mind on something, but the AMA will always be blamed.

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

I applaud their efforts as well. IMHO though, if they want change to occur they need a lot more than 14 signatures and they need to come from those who do not represent a COI.

F-16 viperman

Wow! what a great letter. Too bad it was'nt sent out 2 or 3 years ago. Even if AMA tried harder to distinguish the difference, narrow minded people don;t differentiate. Like bigots, They'll just say "they all look the same to Me"! LOL

Flyfast1

My Feedback: (1)

It's interesting that the definition of a drone set forth in the letter covers most model aircraft that I've seen flown at AMA fields. You might want to reconsider the definition. Also, the stated purpose of drones and the stated pleasures of flying drones are incorrect at least for about 20 FPV pilots that I know. It appears that the authors of the letter don't have much personal experience with FPV flying. Also, there are some typos in the letter.

-Ed B.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Yup, they waited for the issue to be mostly settled, then decided to boldly state their position and tell the AMA to get back to concentrating on what THEY believe the AMA should focus on, model aviation. Didn't announce this formally of course, just let it leak here and there on this website. In the same sentence they claim that they are not "anti drone or Multirotor", but then turn around and claim they don't have a legitimate place within the AMA. As if 14 people who have completely different interests in the hobby should be able to dictate how the AMA operates...and after the fact.

Well I think you hit the nail right on the head there, in two places. First, it's more than likely that any of these guys has ever tried any type of MR flight. Forget even FPV, just tooling around with a multi-rotor. Oddly they didn't mention helis, 99% of which are already multi rotor to begin with (two sets of blades that control flight), they just want to wash their hands of multi-rotors too. A rather close minded and myopic approach, imo. I'm glad someone else picked up on the multiple typos. Grammar and syntax errors abound, as well formatting of the document, but the glaring one for me is the misspelling of Hanson's name. That was a blunder, and further made the document look like amateur hour. As I read it again it also made me wonder, how exactly did they deliver this to the AMA? E-mail, hard copy letter, or did they just decide to let one of the signatories just post it in multiple AMA threads.

init4fun

Hi Mike ,

If that letter was available to more folks , I'll bet it would have FAR more signatures than the dozen or so it has now . One needs only to look at my poll thread to see that approx. 80 % of respondents believe the AMA embracing drones is a mistake . Some folks are SO spun up over the fact that 80% of their fellow flyers voted thumbs down for drones that they have claimed the poll is invalid , claiming the AMA has done no such thing as embracing drones , only to go on and praise the AMA for being "forward thinking" in their championing of all things drone .

Crazy world we live in these days .....

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

I'm still smarting at the way I answered that....I think Franklin may have done the same thing too. Live and learn.

As for the poll itself, the majority of the 58 people have certainly had their say.

As for the other issue...you might recall I started a question/opinion poll a little while back. Almost immediately it was attacked as being irrelevant, and lacking "data", even though I was asking for folks to share their opinions on modeling. Actually, someone might have even complained that I didn't have a poll. Most of the polls are just good discussion starters, and aren't meant to be scientific. Just gotta shake it off.

I noted in another thread where the letter was posted that it might have been more powerful to have far more signatures on it, and maybe even included the results of either a poll here, or a Change.org petition.

It is indeed a wacky world we live in at times. It was 61 degrees a few days ago....amazing!

TimJ

Notice, that the people on the list whom have signed the letter also are a small part of the hobby in the United States. Most of them profit from selling glue, wood, high end edf and 3D flying. Which sadly doesn't represent the hobby industry anymore. With the exception of Frank Tiano and MKS, and may be DA, many hobby shops don't carry the products from those on the list.

The sad truth is, Multi-rotor aircraft have helped to keep many hobby shops alive across the US. It is the NEW helicopter craze with a twist. The people who manage to attract the Multi-Rotor pilot over to fixed wing, or heli r/c will be the winner and will retain a customer / club member / contributing patron to our hobby.

None the less, good luck to getting people to listen and open their minds to your concept. Everyone has their heart in the right place.

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

I'm not sure why you struggle with this concept. As I stated earlier, I am a motorcycle enthusiast, should there be an AMA SIG for motorcycles too? NO, but that doesn't mean that the AMA is anti-motorcycle.

Dictating how the AMA operates? 14 AMA members send a letter to the AMA stating their opinions and they are dictating? REALLY? You claim to be all about embracing diverse opinions, but I guess not really, huh?

UMMM....did you even bother to READ the letter? Their views regarding heli's and MR's were VERY CLEARLY stated! You could be the poster child for myopia!! LOL

Regards,

Astro

islandflyer

Not interested in arguing with a couple of trolls, I will just post the pdf version of the letter and supporting petition, and go back to other productive activities. I have received emails from member of another forum who mentioned they could not properly print the jpg files that were posted.
Those who are so inclined to support it can print the letter, sign the petition with whoever else supports it, and mail to their respective district VP.
This is the only way the AMA Executive Council will get a clue of the level of discontent.

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rcmiket

Wow, you say your open to others views on the subject but then post this? They are not "dictating" anything.

Mike

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Oh yes, productive activities, like coming online and calling people trolls. Very productive. Classy too. It's amazing that you put your name up there and the company you represent. What a spokesperson! While well intentioned, your letter writing campaign has gotten off on a pretty rocky start. Poorly written, you guys couldn't even spell Hanson's name right (how embarrassing), you had one of the signatories leak it (in as many AMA threads as he could), and you didn't even do it in a format that was user friendly. And now you just want people to do all the work and print it and send it to the AMA. What a hamfisted farce, I've seen high school petitions for better food in the cafeteria that were better than this. I would think that 14 guys who are owners of companies, or at least major players in them could have done a better job, but I guess not. Is it the decreasing sales or diminishing relevance in the hobby that is the driver here? Not sure who planned this or who the "leader" of your group was, but this whole thing screams amateur hour. The way you've done this ensures that you'll never know how many people responded, you have diluted the power of a letter campaign, so inefficient and ineffective. You should have reached out to members to help, especially Franklin, the man can craft a letter. It would have been nice to see how many people responded, at this point I'll say no more than 100 based on your approach. But we'll never know.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

ya...they are telling the AMA what they should be doing....did you miss that part while you were doing the happy dance reading the "letter"? Dictating what they should do as if they weren't doing it already, and what they should consider "traditional" modeling. And all while after the fact. What brave stance they have taken. No specific action plan proposed, just a generalized statement about what they want. And they didn't even bother to try to get the most support and backing they could before having someone leak it.......now they want people to fumble around with file extensions, figure that out, print it, then sign a different form, then mail it to the AMA. Watching this all roll out it's like watching the Abbot and Costello Who's on First routine. Just as funny, but sort of sad. This is the best that group could do? Really? If your honest, even you have to admit they could have gone about this in a much better, much more meaningful way right?

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Now that you mention struggling with a concept...did you really just draw a comparison of a motorcycle and a model aircraft? I would try to explain the difference and how one does not equate to the other since we're talking about model aviation...but I'm guessing it would miss the mark. Obvious fail is obvious. Carry on. I'm going flying today, yippy!

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

Certainly no need to argue. However, looking back at all the constructive feedback you've received regarding your campaign efforts, I can't help but notice the folks you appear to label as trolls are the only who ones who actually provided any worthwhile feedback.

The jpg file format was never intended for sharing documents. It was created for sharing digital images, particularly those created from digital photography. Glad to see you were able to get it converted to a PDF. PDF was created way back in the early 90s specifically for sharing documents.

Running a paper campaign seems so 1970s, but I see its already been suggested to you to run an on-line campaign.

Good luck with your campaign efforts.

rcmiket

Your absolutely right that AMA did a horrible job and you described it better than I ever could..

Mike