LDM

My Feedback: (15)

Drones are not the problems , just like guns will never be the problem , its getting something in someones hands that are simply irresponsible, stupid and or crazy !
I fly mostly WW2 planes but recently took my 23 years old sons drone with FPV to the RC club for one reason , to find another members planes that had gone down in the corn and could not be found .
After 10 mins of flying we spotted it , and this was after 2 hours on the ground a week earlier with 4 guys getting beat up in the corn.
These rc vehicles can serve as a valuable tool to locate lost rc planes in so common corn that surrounds so many rc fields.

fliers1

As to quote the great poet Pogo - "We has met the enemy and he is us"

Quadcopters sell so well because they can be flown by anyone right out of the box. No need for AMA, clubs, flight training and all the not so good things associated with some clubs.

For example: http://www.rc-float-flying.rchomepag...instructor.htm

http://www.modelaircraft.org/insider/10_01/leader.htm

Why would anyone want to go through this when it's so easy to buy and then fly a quadcopter?

H5487

LDM,

I think it's universally understood and accepted that the "instruments" (i.e. drones or guns) are not the problems but those who misuse them. The problem that I see is that since there is a growing anti-drone sentiment among the average citizens right now, why is Model Aviation continuing to jamb pack them into every issue? I would think that a little less focus might be prudent until the "drone" segment of model aviation is able to establish a better image.

I see the drone issue to be very similar to the assault rifles issue right now. Right after some politicians started proposing bans on assault rifles, many gun stores (at least here in Texas) began a barrage marketing campaign of "Hurry up and buy your assault guns before they get banned!" The tactic may have worked at boosting the bottom line at gun stores but it also incensed, galvanized, and accelerated the anti-gun movement. While the gun stores saw a short term increase in sales, they increased the chasm between the right-to-bear-arms folks, and those who want to see all firearms banned. Surely, that hasn't helped the predominately-responsible gun owners!

Harvey

H5487

Fliers1,

I was watching the TV news about this time last year when they showed a YouTube clip .of a "drone" equipped with a .22 (?) and shooting up a target. I wonder if the drone owner or cameraman thought he was doing our hobby any good? The News Anchor sure didn't have anything nice to say about us!!!

Yes, Pogo was right in so many ways!

Harvey

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

The more recent story came from a kid in CT who had the 9mm strapped to the drone, but as in the case above, the story didn't look down or cast the hobby as a whole in a bad light, just the people acting irresponsibly.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Except that's not really totally true. They still need skills, and still need to be flown. The garden variety cheap ones from no name brands and Air Hogs eventually break, and there are no replacement parts for them. An average person doesn't just buy a DJI phantom and start cruising around at 1,000 feet shooting video. Most of these instances we see and hear about (but in almost every situation never catch), the person has more than average flying skills.

fliers1

My point still stands. There is no need for AMA, clubs and the usual long and drawn out flight training process that is required to safely fly fixed wing aircraft. Anyone can buy whatever they want with no one to impose any rules or regulations. Chances are the FAA will lump RC airplanes with quadcopters.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Well, your point may stand, but here's hoping your club doesn't take the same approach (if you belong to one that it looking for new members).

Say, how long and drawn out do you think the training process is on one of these?

http://www.horizonhobby.com/sportsma...us-rtf-hbz8400

Basically lands itself....sorta like the RTH function on a higher end quad eh? Some other options:

• AutoLand actively assists with landing with minimal to no pilot input
• Instant flight recovery with Panic Recovery mode
• Beginner, Intermediate, and Experienced modes make learning to fly easy
• Holding Pattern returns aircraft to a fixed point and flies in a pattern
• Virtual Fence keeps aircraft within a comfortable flying range

I guess at some point the pilot needs to do something, perhaps just turn it on.

Or this one:

http://www.horizonhobby.com/sport-cu...nology-hbz4480

Gotta try reaaal hard to crash that one.

I think some folks are under the mistaken idea that the AMA needs to have everyone join a club to enjoy flying. I'd venture a guess to say more are not members than are.....

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Missed that initially....a phrase that eventually pops up in all of these threads. "Traditional"....so open to interpretation.

But regardless, I'm sure the folks who got into the hobby after free flight models were happy, no better yet thrilled, that the hobby was smart enough to evolve and embrace new technology and means of building and flying. Nirto, gas, control line, mutli channel, helis, 2.4.....etc etc etc.

Show me something that failed to evolve, and I'll point out a picture of it...in a museum.

Silent-AV8R

I've said this before, but you do not "fly" 99% of the new multicopters. They are boring. The FPV racing looks cool, as do some of the 3D quads, but the rest of it?? A total snooze. 3-axis stabilization, GPS position hold, programmable flights, yep, all good fun, if that is what you are into.

I own a few and they are great tools for getting a camera in the sky, but when I want to actually enjoy piloting an RC aircraft I choose something else. The idea that traditional RC is going to die out in favor of these things is absurd. There will always be those who will enjoy flying an actual aircraft (plane, glider, or single rotor heli) to challenge their piloting skills, model a full scale, or just enjoy the idea of flying.

This is not "evolving" this is a quantum leap in a totally new direction that does not require the rest of RC to adapt or die.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

You have a few more than me, I have none... I don't think anyone has said that traditional RC is going to die out in favor of these though. My point was that they are yet another form of model building and flying that that AMA has embraced, and rightly so. They, and the hobby, have continued to evolve from 1936. Although airplanes are the dominant flying craft, many different kinds (Nitro, gas, electric) are now out there. Same with helis....but quads somehow get the rap because they have more than one rotor? And because some people abuse how they are used?

The hobby wouldn't die if they weren't part of the AMA, but the hobby would have been foolish to try to "ban" them.

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

Harvey we are on the same page but I want to add one element . I been in consumer products for 29 years at every level including consulting for fortune 500 companies. There is three stages in consumer products -Fad , Trend , Evergreen. Drones are in the fad stage and I personally believe they will stay in the fad stage, eventully disappear to the same group that uses them professionally or high end RC.
They were the hottest toys sold at Christmas in 2015, most likely be hot in 2016 and start to fade as the market satuartes in 2017 .
I more surprised at the lack of lipo fires vs the crazy reports on Drones flying . I say that because as we all know people will not take the time to learn about the dangers of anything and simply charge lipos like a cell phone and not worry about storage ect.
So this is my prediction , drone useage will go down late in 2017, so irresponcible use of drones will also go down based on number of users. Until then we have to hope that we survive as an rc community and do not lose any freedoms.
I also will add that on any high end drone, cabable of more then 1/4 mile FPV range , we should have registered background checks . That will also reduce some of the idiots that can not fill out a form from purchasing. So I hope that background checks on drones will hopefully reduce --not stop -but reduce an non -USA citizen, or waco from easily obtaining a drone for the worng use.
Now so that you know my feelings , I think gun control means exactly this --make it harder for the good people to get guns and all you do is enforce those of us that should have them will have them. The poeple that should not have them based on criminal backgrounds get them anyway illegally, so control will hopefully limit anyone with a something obvious in there background like mental illness but it wont stop criminals as well know.
So controlling drones really needs to be controlling high powered FPV drones, it not a big segment by any means and can easily be forced to register users.
The biggest challeng is that by the time Govt passes regulations on registering drones the fad for the numbers will most likely be gone.
I could be wrong but I dont see drones reaching the trend stage never see them reaching the evergreen stage.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

An interesting persepctive, thanks for that. I'm more pessimistic, I think purchases and usage overall with them will drop in 2016. I think the hobby level ones, for pictures of all types, and for racing, will grown and then level off, and eventually they will mimic the helis in terms of popularity and usage.

Silent-AV8R

The trick is separating us from the bad examples that have roused the natives to action. All of us are under siege because we are being lumped together with the MR that the media had hyped the public into diliking.

Perfect example. There is an electric/glider field located in a park in Long Beach, CA (El Dorado). Been flying there for decades. A buddy of mine was flying a smallish (~2 meter) glider a couple of weeks ago during the week, A woman comes driving up and starts screaming at him about flying his "drone" in the parks and taking pictures of her family, etc. This is a GLIDER. It had NO camera. She distracted him by yelling and him and eventually tried to call the park police. They ignored her fortunately since they knew nothing wrong was going on.

But the public, and clearly many local and state lawmakers, are lumping us all together. Which is something I think the AMA needs to work harder to make the distinction between the hobby and all other users.

H5487

LDM,

That was a well-written post (#37)!

Yes, the "cheapie" drones are at the 'fad' stage right now but I'm not sure that they'll fade away as soon as you predict. At the very least, the cheap multi-rotored flying machines with their electronic stabilization systems now allow even the most inept person to join the ranks of fliers without a lengthy or expensive learning period and that's not likely to fall out of favor anytime soon. However, since it's a skill (or more correctly, an ability) that wasn't hard-earned, it's not likely going to be a cherished skill that will change a person and become a lifelong hobby. Most will probably agree that the dedication, hard work, and perseverance in learning a new skill has more staying power than an ability that was 'purchased'.

RCU is full of posts lamenting that fixed-wing ARFs and RTFs are doing the same to model building. While there may be a little truth to that, the reality is that ARFs and RTFs are perfect for those who only want to fly a little and then go on to the next fad. Only those who truly have aviation in their blood will go on to become life-long fliers; a good percentage of which will also become builders.

So, I'm pretty sure that the cheapie (toy) multi-rotors are here to stay but, like you predict, will eventually wane in popularity. And those fliers that stay with the hobby will move on to more sophisticated (and expensive) machines. I'm also pretty sure that the high-end multi-rotors have a viable and continuing use for commercial and government purposes but those are a world-apart from us hobbyists.

However, I can't agree that one solution is to treat the more-sophisticated multi-rotor sales the same as firearms sales. I doubt that it would keep them out of the hands of those who would misuse them and my fear would be that the government (in its typical way of carrying things too far) would eventually try to treat ALL model aircraft as potential instruments of terrorism. ("Mister Hartman, we're from Homeland Security and we have a warrant for your arrest because we have determined that you're a serious risk to our country. We have discovered that you did not disclose that you cheated on a forth grade algebra test 60 years ago and such non-disclosure of past criminal behavior is undeniable proof that you cannot be trusted.")

Harvey

Silent-AV8R

I miss the olden days too when we grew our own balsa trees, raised silk worms for covering and horses for glue!! Not to mention mining the raw materials to make our own radios. Ah, those were the days!! ARFs have ruined everything, not "REAL" modelers left thanks to them.

H5487

Silent,

Your post (#39) was well-written too and underlines my reason for starting this thread. The average person has been conditioned to believe that almost all small planes and 'copters are potential threats to their safety and privacy. While time will show these folks that we're no more potential terrorists than all motorcyclists are potentially Hells Angels, I just think that the multi-rotor manufacturers and aficionados should be cognizant that their segment of the hobby is being scrutinized heavily right now and it wouldn't hurt to "lie low" until the paranoid move on to their next target. (I, myself, fear all of those Fed Ex trucks that we are foolishly, FOOLISHLY I TELL YOU, allowing to freely roam our streets. For crying out loud, even their NAME openly portrays their ultimate goal!!!)

Harv

rgburrill

I will add one word - illegal. It's all about "illegal" aerial surveillance. There are privacy laws. And there are non-commerial use laws. Both are being broken constantly by the FPV guys. Sorry porcia83 but that's what the vast majority are being used for. And you aren't helping yourself out one bit.

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

The other club in town held a "drone safety class" this Saturday, they had 25 folks sign up and a member of the local press took the course and another covered it. It was interesting talking to the folks about some of the impressions and how we left people better educated than when they got there.

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2...fun-and-profit

kohersh

For the bottom line, not the good of the hobby. They market heaviest what they sell the most of.
This is like saying most cheaters use their iphone to search through tinder and ashley madison...why does Apple push their iphone so hard on everyone its ruining lives??

Silent-AV8R

I'm betting the chances of a company like DJI "laying low" are Slim and None and Slim just left town. Frankly I think they could not care less about anything other than selling as many of their multicopters as they can before the bottom falls out. Eventually they will saturate the market and their uninformed and careless customers will have poisoned the well so badly for the rest of us. By then they will have made their fortune and will move on. Much like the Dot Coms did.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Did you have to walk to school too, in snow, backwards, 5 miles?

H5487

Yes! And uphill both ways!!!

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

You are too funny...lol. Please, by all means, provide the data to substantiate your claim that the vast majority are used for illegal aerial surveillance. Something....anything...or is this just your opinion based on...what? Of course there are privacy laws, and? Where are all the arrests? Where are the stories in the media about this?

The fact is you don't know what the "vast majority" of these things are used for, legally or otherwise...nobody does.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

What a fantastic idea, and looks like it was executed very well.