porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

I stopped trying to figure out what the deal is with this site from a tech perspective, it's the only place that has as many quirks as it does. Sometimes I'll get notification of posts on threads that are weeks old, even though I've posted in the thread since then. Other times I'll get no notices, or get timed out and get forced to sign in again. It's the only site that has a special link saying "are you having trouble signing in,here, use this link to clear your cookies". Bizzare stuff sometimes. Perhaps it's a "traditional" system they have set up that needs to be modernized?

thepamster

Nice shot. Lol.

islandflyer

In spite of the large number of posts I have made in this regard, some are simply too obtuse (or choose to be for the sake of arguing endlessly) to understand that most of us are making the difference between:

- quads (or any MR) in line of sight and manual RC control are legitimate RC toys (heli with more than one rotor) and belong in the heli airspace at any RC field that allows helis
- drones are any form of aircraft (including fixed wings) capable of flying beyond line of sight, or capable of navigating autonomously, without human control- These are not model aviation, they are drones.

I had great long week-end at Huckoween in Georgia. This subject as discussed extensively with over a dozen AMA members (even thought the event was not AMA sanctioned, and was at private property that did not require AMA membership). Everyone was on the same page as I am, including the CEO of a major manufacturer, and even our friend who was flying......a DRONE!
Toby makes great videos with his drone, and also flies model aircraft. He also believes that when he flies his RC planes, he is in the Model Aviation world. When he does drone videos, he agrees that he in in another reality that has nothing to do with model aviation.
He is indeed quite an aerial video operator!

HoundDog

My Feedback: (49)

Me too but it always seems to be the same post.
wish thy would put the POST # right after the Originally Posted by HoundDog
Wish they had the Forum title on the blue line after the date and time of the post.

Sport_Pilot

Maybe a new catagory needs to be created because so called traditional RC are drones. It matters not what we try to call it, the dictionary definition includes any radio controlled aircraft. And that would make a difference in a court of law.

thepamster

Yes!!! Finally someone is starting to see things my way. Not only do drones need there own organization they need their own word, and that word is "drone". Now who's with me????

Sport_Pilot

No, drones are any radio controlled aircraft. Need a word for them, or some designation. I segues a word for FPV and autonomous aircraft to be called BLOSA. Maybe that is too close to balsa?

HoundDog

My Feedback: (49)

thepamster; and all other Drone/FPV haters
Not I says the little ( heck I forgot who says that) Anyway I respectfully agree to disagree. We should embrace the new technology. (Quads & FPV). The reason is we would be much stronger all united than separate entities. Quad Flyers that are not AMA members or affiliated with any kind of organization all ready might out number the 180 thousand AMA members. If they don't they certainly will after this Xmas. I'd rather have them organized with us than unorganized and continuing to either unknowingly or knowingly continue flying when and where they are not supposed too. If they were organized even as a separate branch of the AMA at least they would gain some structure and education as to what problems they can cause for the hobby, as a whole if they don't understand their responsibilities. U are never going to get the "Rouge" pilot of these "DRONES" to willingly comply with regs. Enforcement and Punishment is the only way to gain compliance to the Rules for these types. Another thing if they are part of a CBO and considered as Hobby R/C then by the Law under #336 they aren't supposed to be messed with buy the FAA/powers that be. For what that's worth. Think If we had a million more educated AMA members what a powerful body we might become.
Drones are not going away. if anything they will way out number us if they don't already especially after this Xmas. Don't forget it cost some one under 19 NOTHING to Join the AMA and for $10 get the Digital version of Model Aviation. Again JMHO

thepamster

The dictionary is wrong.
I don't hate drones. I just have no interest in them. I am interested in model aviation. I never said anything about FPV. FPV can be just another way to fly a model airplane.

Sport_Pilot

LOL! Dictionary's are never wrong! They are always right! If a definition is changed it becomes the standard. Courts use the dictionary definition no matter what you think.

init4fun

I agree 100% with Pam , and as I've said before , words are not "etched in stone" and can and do change meaning based on popular usage VS the textbook dictionary definition . My favorite example is the word "Gay" ... In the 1890's to be Gay simply meant to be happy . Fast forward a hundred and thirty or so years , and that word means something one heck of a lot different . Now I ask you , Did the dictionary change the meaning of that word on it's own , or was it people who changed it by co opting the word to mean something else entirely , and THEN the dictionary had to catch up by amending it's definition of what it means ? It will be the same for Drone . While some (Sport) could argue that it means all things that fly without a pilot inside , others (Pam , Myself , and countless others) favor the "beyond LOS , perhaps using GPS , and for a mission other than the pure joy of seeing your model in flight , with some possibly paid assignment or agenda for the flight" definition of what a drone is . I know I've already said this too , to the general public if it's got wings it's an RC model and if it's got 4 or more blades positioned to lift it vertically it's a drone . At least to the general public . You know , the rest of the world who decides what a word really means by the way they choose to use it ....

No worries , Sport , the dictionary will catch up .... Eventually ....

Sport_Pilot

The only people who are using the word to define quads and FPV are AMA members and we are a minority. I don't think the dictionary is going to change anytime soon.

thepamster

Really?
http://droneflyers.com/talk/

init4fun

I know I've already said this elsewhere , but , try this for yourselves ;

Show 10 people you know a picture of a quad , and I'll bet ya a cup of coffee that 10 out of 10 will say ; "Drone"

Now show em a picture of Sport's Fokker Triplane and you'll get something like ; "Snoopy and the Red baron" for an answer .....

Yes friends , I actually did this , a couple of times with different groups of people , and ALL identified the quad as a drone and the DR-1 as an RC airplane .

There was no doubt in the minds of anyone I asked , which was which . The public , "educated" by today's mass media , has spoken ......

TheEdge

My Feedback: (788)

As usual init your wisdom brings value to the thread, I like how you have cleverly introduced fact into this, kinda like gathering data.

init4fun

Thank You my Friend .

Honestly guys , I hope you all realize that this is just conversation for conversation's sake , and that I mean nothing personal against anyone , whether they agree or disagree with what I believe . I saw this question of "what , exactly , defines the word drone" a few months back and decided to ask random folks (outside of the hobby) the question by showing the two pictures . I baited no one , didn't "lead" anyone to my desired answer , and was especially careful not to use the word drone myself so as to not plant it in their thoughts . Just a photo of a "Phantom" quad , with the simple question "What would you call this ?" All , and I mean ALL , called the quad a drone . I also showed other folks pictures of models of WW1 and WW2 aircraft models and all called them either RC (or toy) planes .

So while Sport's definition may have held sway up till the recent "drone revolution" , the changing times have changed the meaning of that word , Whether we agree with this new definition or not (and yes of course , I do agree with the majority on this one) .

thepamster

I'll echo what Init4fun said. These are just opinions here, well except for the mistakenly written definitions in dictionaries. Lol.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Hound dog..just curious about how much Rogue Quad flying you've seen in your area as you drive through the neighborhoods, the parks, ball fields, etc.
I haven't seen ANY...just like I've basically never seen any Rogue PPP activity in my travels.
If we were to go by sales figures we should be seeing kids, teens and some adults flying the entry level machines all over the place at just a casual glance.
We should be seeing about 1 out of every 50 males between age 10 and 30 flying these things on a good day, all across the USA.
When I was a kid, you DID see Hula Hoops, Skate Boards, kids playing Ball Sports...EVERYWHERE
So once again, how much Rogue Quad flying do you usually see on any given day...?

BTW, I consider Quad flying "Traditional RC" if the pilot uses just his eyes and his thumbs to control it..

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

opinions...exactly. Just what the question answer for initially, not a debate, not a fact finding mission, not a dispute on numbers etc, not a scientific thesis, just a simple question. Almost everyone gets it, some people can't get past it.

TheEdge

My Feedback: (788)

Ten out of ten is equal to 100%. No mater how you try to twist it, you have data.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Well you won't find the data you seek in this thread, that's been noted a few times. It's not a question that lends itself to quantifiable data, or a definitive answer since it's based on ones personal opinion. So I'm not sure why you keep insisting on it, and trying to find some deficiency in the question itself. As has also been noted earlier, if it's data you seek, feel free to start your own thread, slap a pole on there to be answered, and I'm sure everyone will be happy to oblige you.

TheEdge

My Feedback: (788)

I'm not insisting on anything, I replied to an earlier thread about a poll and you responded how you don't like polls. This is where I spoke of data. I'm a firm believer in data, not so much opinions. I'm not saying that what is being discussed here isn't good, I have said I think it is, you just seem to personalize things and when possible make it seem like your being attacked.

The fact of the matter is that what init shared does equate to data and you can ignore it all you want but init sure felt it was indicative of something that was reinforcing.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

My apologies, I guess among all the posts noting what a waste of time this was, and how it will amount to nothing, I missed where you said what is being discussed here was good. And there wasn't anything in there directed at me either, purely general responses.

It sure seemed like you were pushing for hard and fast data. If you don't want to answer the thread question that's fine, but data seems to be something your looking for, and I don't know that you will find it here among the opinions people are expressing.

52larry52

My Feedback: (1)

HoundDog, As to "Not I says the little (heck I forgot who says that)", it was "Not I, said the little red hen". I hope you can sleep tonight now!

HoundDog

My Feedback: (49)

Fat chance of that Quads are made to be flown as autonomously Using GPS and being able to take off, Follow a prescribed flight plan, and return to their starting point with little or no input by the pilot. If U want complete manual control of Quads U get into Racing them through an obstacle course. Gota do more than just fly the pattern like boering "Traditional" R/C

U saying that all these airline pilots are lying about these hundreds of sightings. Naturally these Quads aren't filling the skies of every neighbor hood. Enough are being flown where and when they should not be flown to cause all the problems we are now experiencing.
A couple of our club members who are EX airline pilots and still fly full scale were told by a local FAA person that they were to report anything they see no mater where, as a Near Miss.