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Old 10-01-2015, 01:12 PM
  #26
porcia83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astrohog View Post
At what point, statistically, do they extrapolate sufficient information?

Last I checked e-mail was free, so the only added expense would be to read and assimilate the data collected. The AMA was formed by its members and for its members, seems like listening to ALL its members (or at least giving them all a chance to voice their opinions) would be a prudent way to spend its members' dollars!

Regards,

Astro
You won't like the answer, but..it depends. the size of the survey population plays a large part, and past participation in similar surveys can play a part too. Segmentation is a factor as well, are they looking for the total demographic here, from coast to coast, or looking for key areas. Dunno. Perhaps it was based on membership density in geographic areas. The degree of variance in the responses from the surveyed population is also a factor. If a lot of responses are similar in a clustered area, chances are the more surveys they send out, the more similar the responses will be. Typically the more than respond the better, more data equals more stats to analyze, but there is a point of diminishing returns as well. I've seen survey response rates of 10% that were statistically relevant (tested against a control survey for level setting), to needing to get into the 25% response rate. It's not a perfect science.

As for e-mail, no, actually it's not free. The e-mail fairy doesn't exist anymore, he/she has been replaced with programmers, servers, bandwidth, and infrastructure. The AMA was formed for the membership, who has elected officials to act on their behalf. While in a perfect world ALL would get to voice their opinion, and as it happens they can. They have direct lines to their local district leadership, regional AVP, and they can even right directly to the senior leadership. I'm not aware of anything stopping them.

In the case of the survey, it's not realistic or cost effective to send out 150,000 surveys. In the very rare case even 50% of people responded, consider the time it would take to review the results. If they were formatted as answer 1-10, that would be easier to do. One or two people could slice and dice those results easier. Tack on the free form answers, that ads a level of complexity that requires much more labor and man-hours. That cost money, and god knows the AMA has already been criticized for they way the spend our dues. I could hear the complaints now, right?
As is, I'd ballpark the cost of this in the $5,000k range, at least. Keep in mind the AMA has a researcher on staff too.
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Old 10-01-2015, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by porcia83 View Post
As for e-mail, no, actually it's not free.
How much does it cost?
Quote:
In the case of the survey, it's not realistic or cost effective to send out 150,000 surveys.
Is that your opinion, or did the AMA give that as their reason for not sending it to every member?
Quote:
In the very rare case even 50% of people responded
In my opinion, that is a compelling reason to send it to every member.
Quote:
consider the time it would take to review the results.
That is the entire premise to sending out a questionaire; to gather information. Yes, it takes time, but that is one of their expected functions, to listen to their constituents in order to guide them to make the decisions we have entrusted them with.
Quote:
That cost money, and god knows the AMA has already been criticized for they way the spend our dues. I could hear the complaints now, right?
These days, I'm not saying it wouldn't happen, but I personally can't fathom a member who would complain that their own organization would spend some of their own money in order to listen to their opinions! I believe you are aware that most of the criticisms we are seeing regarding the AMA's expenditures, are being voiced by members that believe their money is not being spent in their best interest, not simply that money is being spent.
Quote:
As is, I'd ballpark the cost of this in the $5,000k range, at least.
Is this based on any verifiable facts?
Quote:
Keep in mind the AMA has a researcher on staff too.
And I can't think of a better way for them to spend their time! That is precisely what we pay them for!

Regards,

Astro
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Old 10-01-2015, 02:14 PM
  #28
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They seem to have no problem sending renewal notices along with non AMA business "offers" to everyone. Since there will always be a percentage that will not respond what's the harm to emailing everyone?
Would it not be smart to gather all the feedback possible.since were dealing with topics that will effect the organization in years to come?
I'm just tossing that out as food for thought.
As far as cost I'm sure they would be paying a third party to collect and compile results. Nobody in this day and age does it themselves.
Mike

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Old 10-01-2015, 02:20 PM
  #29
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This survey is not the first one I've gotten over the years from AMA .
I always respond. Why not ,I'm glad they care what I think .
My participation in model aviation has spanned decades , I've been vocal when I thought it would help or just wanted to vent ,been an active CD ,member of a s.i.g. (LSF) .
I don't know their survey selection criteria and won't speculate , but staying involved long term just may
get them to wonder what you think .
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Old 10-01-2015, 02:34 PM
  #30
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From the AMA Members only page.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/membersonly/suassurvey.aspx


[h=1]sUAS Survey Results[/h]

"A survey was conducted to gain a better understanding of the wants and needs of a recreational and light commercial-use sUAS operator. More than 3,000 people took part. The survey results will be posted in April 2014.

The survey is one of many resources the AMA is leveraging to properly address this emerging discipline."

3000 out of 150,000 members? I don't remember ever seeing the results either.

Mike
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Old 10-02-2015, 04:20 AM
  #31
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Got it and responded along with the addendum.

Bill Hodges
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Old 10-02-2015, 04:32 AM
  #32
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No survey here ... just got the bill ... for my 'insurance'.
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Old 10-02-2015, 12:52 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Iannucelli View Post
No survey here ... just got the bill ... for my 'insurance'.
Probably the cheapest insurance bill you get.

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Old 10-02-2015, 01:01 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcmiket View Post
From the AMA Members only page.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/membersonly/suassurvey.aspx


sUAS Survey Results



"A survey was conducted to gain a better understanding of the wants and needs of a recreational and light commercial-use sUAS operator. More than 3,000 people took part. The survey results will be posted in April 2014.

The survey is one of many resources the AMA is leveraging to properly address this emerging discipline."

3000 out of 150,000 members? I don't remember ever seeing the results either.

Mike
Without knowing the number of surveys sent out, "3000 out of 150,000" is sort of a partial equation. What percentage of the membership did they want to query, and of those polled, how many responded. If 3000 were sent out and returned, fantastic. If 10,000 were sent and 3000 still a pretty good result.

Given the earlier survey and the new one, perhaps this most recent one is a follow up.
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Old 10-02-2015, 01:29 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by porcia83 View Post
Without knowing the number of surveys sent out, "3000 out of 150,000" is sort of a partial equation. What percentage of the membership did they want to query, and of those polled, how many responded. If 3000 were sent out and returned, fantastic. If 10,000 were sent and 3000 still a pretty good result.

Given the earlier survey and the new one, perhaps this most recent one is a follow up.
The whole thing is irrelevant since we have no numbers. I posted the link as a FYI. I still believe if they can send out bills they could also do the same on surveys.

Mike
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Old 10-02-2015, 05:03 PM
  #36
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Right, except the purpose of a bill (if even sent out), is completely different than a survey. Regardless, hope they post the results of this most recent one. I didn't dig on the AMA site to see if they ever published the results of the earlier one.
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Old 10-02-2015, 06:03 PM
  #37
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Still did not get the survey.
I send an email to 'jeffn@modelaircraft.org' as it was suggested in another thread, asking why I did not get this survey, or any email from AMA in the past several months. No reply...
I have received dozens of email prior to that, and have not changed my email address in close to 10 years.
I logging in the http://www.modelaircraft.org/ web site, and checked that all my info is up to date.
I will call them Monday and inquire....
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Old 10-02-2015, 06:41 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by porcia83 View Post
Probably the cheapest insurance bill you get.

And with the most coverage per dollar cost ratio.
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Old 10-03-2015, 04:50 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by porcia83 View Post
Probably the cheapest insurance bill you get.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris P. Bacon View Post
And with the most coverage per dollar cost ratio.
Lets be accurate here. It's the cheapest SECONDARY insurance bill you'll get.

Mike
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Old 10-03-2015, 04:52 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by islandflyer View Post
Still did not get the survey.
I send an email to 'jeffn@modelaircraft.org' as it was suggested in another thread, asking why I did not get this survey, or any email from AMA in the past several months. No reply...
I have received dozens of email prior to that, and have not changed my email address in close to 10 years.
I logging in the http://www.modelaircraft.org/ web site, and checked that all my info is up to date.
I will call them Monday and inquire....
I'm interested to hear what they say.

Mike
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Old 10-03-2015, 05:15 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcmiket View Post
Lets be accurate here. It's the cheapest SECONDARY insurance bill you'll get.

Mike
LoL...o/k, so lets do that then and be really really accurate. It is in fact the cheapest PRIMARY insurance bill some will get because it is the ONLY coverage that some people will have. Not everyone carriers liability coverage.

As for it being SECONDARY coverage, it is still priced significantly lower than any similar excess product out there. Not sure about that, call and agent and ask they to quote a similar product with similar coverage. Put that next to the annual dues we pay. In light of the need to be accurate, calculate the amount of the dues that goes to the coverage we get. It's even more cost effective. But hey, use the fill dues when considering it as the premium, it's still hundreds less that the cost of a policy.
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Old 10-03-2015, 05:36 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by porcia83 View Post
LoL...o/k, so lets do that then and be really really accurate. It is in fact the cheapest PRIMARY insurance bill some will get because it is the ONLY coverage that some people will have. Not everyone carriers liability coverage.

.
Let me play a card from your deck.
How many is it primary for?


Mike
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Old 10-03-2015, 05:46 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcmiket View Post
Let me play a card from your deck.
How many is it primary for?


Mike
I'll play the pedantry game this morning since it' cold and rainy and miserable.

I stroked my deck and whipped it out, the answer is: More than one.

Stop already with the silliness. If it's more than one, does it matter? You know just as well as I do that there are some people who don't have renters or homeowners insurance, nor are they walking around with personal liability policies. For them, this coverage is primary.

Now, back to my deck.
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Old 10-03-2015, 05:50 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by porcia83 View Post
I'll play the pedantry game this morning since it' cold and rainy and miserable.

I stroked my deck and whipped it out, the answer is: More than one.

Stop already with the silliness. If it's more than one, does it matter? You know just as well as I do that there are some people who don't have renters or homeowners insurance, nor are they walking around with personal liability policies. For them, this coverage is primary.

Now, back to my deck.
So let me sum up you have no numbers or even a clue how many.
Now in another post you posted that Membership was up in 2015. Care to share those numbers?,

Your the guy who wants all to post facts I challenge you to do the same.

Mike
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Old 10-03-2015, 06:03 AM
  #45
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"I didn't dig on the AMA site to see if they ever published the results of the earlier one"

I posted the link on the members only page, " sUAS Survey Results" only thing there is just what I posted about the 3000 responding.Here's the link again.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/members...uassurvey.aspx

Mike
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Old 10-03-2015, 06:08 AM
  #46
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Were up to 11 who got it and 765 views for what it's worth.

Mike
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Old 10-03-2015, 06:18 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcmiket View Post
So let me sum up you have no numbers or even a clue how many.
Now in another post you posted that Membership was up in 2015. Care to share those numbers?,

Your the guy who wants all to post facts I challenge you to do the same.

Mike
Yes, it's all about a "challenge" isn't it. Not a discussion or an exchange of thoughts or opinions, or even the slightest attempt at seeing a different perspective or even agreeing with someone, even partially, who doesn't agree with you. You and another one or two try so hard for the epic gotcha zingers. I'll say this, at least you edited one or two of yours on your own that were clearly attacks. Anyhoo It's to bad the conversation stops being about a topic, and morph into some personality clash. You've made some good points in some threads and I've agreed with some, and disagreed philosophically about others. Such is the way of life, and internet threads. Hey, at least there are no facepalm memes here...yet. Enough on that.

If you don't want to agree that there is at least one person in 150,000 membership who has the AMA insurance as primary, you stick to your guns. Double down even, it's fairly obvious what the answer is. Chances are you have them in your club, I know I do in mine. But really, insist on a specific number to avoid agreeing with me.

As for the post about increased membership (in another thread I believe), you probably noted that I included the e-mail which indicated membership was up. I can post it here too since it doesn't appear you got it. I guess the word of an AMA AVP, and committee chairman isn't sufficient to some on it's face. Perhaps it's my rose colored lenses that make be believe him, but RC is still popular, and with the dues "discount", it was bound to happen for 2015. Also I look at it locally too, my club had 24 new members join this year, 9 of which signed up for AMA as a result. Other clubs in the area are experiencing growth as well. Here is the e-mail, in part:


"Now is the time to start thinking about 2016. Some AMA programs have suspense dates such as TAG, Scholarships, Flying Field improvement, etc.


Good news. AMA closes out it's membership year on September 15th and again AMA membership has increased. Great job AMA



Remember if I can help you please ask.




Rusty Kennedy, L716
AVP,District IV

Chairman,Leader Member Development Committee
Leader Member Program Coordinator








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Old 10-03-2015, 06:26 AM
  #48
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"Yes, it's all about a "challenge" isn't it."

Not at all.
I could go though this and others threads where you have "Challenged" other posters to provide Facts and blown off those that did not, Apparently you don't like it when your called on it.
.

Mike

Last edited by rcmiket; 10-03-2015 at 06:29 AM.
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Old 10-03-2015, 07:43 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcmiket View Post
"Yes, it's all about a "challenge" isn't it."

Not at all.
I could go though this and others threads where you have "Challenged" other posters to provide Facts and blown off those that did not, Apparently you don't like it when your called on it.
.

Mike
Yep, that is his whole MO on here, spin and deflection. He made claims earlier in this thread that I asked for clarification on and I am still waiting for him to respond.

It's kinda like playing chess with a pigeon, they kick over all the pieces and strut around like they've won! LOL!!

Astro
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Old 10-03-2015, 12:27 PM
  #50
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Got the survey and responded.
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